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post #1 of 33 Old 08-09-2014, 07:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Just need a little advice.

I finally bought a house, I'm out of the apartment, and the fact I now have a larger living room and no neighbors living upstairs or downstairs made me decide I should get a subwoofer (or two). Its just been a while since I've bought any AV equipment, so I decided to seek out some advice. I'm running an Onkyo TX SR607 (bought in 2009), with 7.2 capabilities. As far as speakers, for the front, a pair of Bose 701s, and I have a Bose Accoustimass 7 and Accoustimass 5 to round out the other 5 satellite speakers. My living room is about 14 feet wide, and about 30 feet long. So, which subwoofer(s) would you recommend to complete this set up? I'm probably working with a budget of $400. Doing research on my own, I'm leaning toward a pair of Polk PSW 121s. Any and all advice is appreciated, including what frequency to set the crossover, and sub placement.. Thanks.

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post #2 of 33 Old 08-09-2014, 09:01 PM
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Save up 49.00 more and get a SVS PB-1000 outlet for 449.00.
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post #3 of 33 Old 08-09-2014, 10:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Save up 49.00 more and get a SVS PB-1000 outlet for 449.00.
Thank you. With the name "basshead" and almost 6,000 posts, I will take your advice. Never even heard of the name "SVS". Back when I bought my equipment (except my receiver, I ordered that from Amazon, after previous experience with Onkyo), You could go to stores, like Circuit City, and Sound Advice, that had listening rooms, and you could try everything out. I'm sure they still do, but not in every little podunk town. The internet has made it hard to buy quality components with confidence.
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post #4 of 33 Old 08-09-2014, 10:20 PM - Thread Starter
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What frequency would you recommend setting the crossover? Of course, the 701s, with dual 8" woofers positioned facing each other inside the tower, with the front and back ports are producing more bass than the accoustimass bass modules.
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post #5 of 33 Old 08-09-2014, 11:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcfriedrich View Post
Never even heard of the name "SVS". Back when I bought my equipment (except my receiver, I ordered that from Amazon, after previous experience with Onkyo), You could go to stores, like Circuit City, and Sound Advice, that had listening rooms, and you could try everything out. I'm sure they still do, but not in every little podunk town. The internet has made it hard to buy quality components with confidence.
SVS is an Internet Direct company with a long and sterling pedigree. One can benefit by using an I.D. company in several ways. I.D. companies don't need stores to sell their wares, nor sales people to sell them under commissions. That allows these companies to sell superior products directly to you for less than many commercial companies could sell inferior products. Once you purchase an I.D. sub, that company allows a trial period (usually 30 days) to try out their product in your own home. That is the best way to audition anything. If you like it, then keep it. If you don't like it, they will issue you a return order and refund your money once you ship it back (usually takes a week or two for the refund). Most I.D. companies will not charge a shipping fee to your home, but will charge a shipping fee back to their factory. SVS allows free shipping both ways and a 45-day trial period. And the fact is, one can buy from I.D. companies with far more confidence than in most any commercial showroom.

A budget of $400 won't allow you to buy many subwoofers from I.D. companies. The reason is they build only high quality subs and not budget subs, which the Polk you mentioned certainly is. One of a few I.D. companies that has subs for under $400 is Hsu Research (the oldest of the I.D. companies and highly respected, but they charge for shipping). Up your budget to $500 and you will have a few more options, like SVS that basshead mentioned, along with Hsu and Reaction Audio.

Personally, I think you'd benefit from the sub basshead mentioned (PB-1000), or the Reaction Audio BPS-212 (dual opposing 12-inch drivers). While the consensus is that two good subs is better than one excellent sub is usually correct, I wouldn't call the Polk anything but a budget sub. And because you have a fairly large room, buy the best sub you can, then later when funds are available, you can buy a second.
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post #6 of 33 Old 08-09-2014, 11:57 PM
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Basshead does know what he's talking about (he's modest, but he buys subs to use with his music business so he knows a LOT).

Research on the AVS subwoofer forum, and you'll learn about SVS Sound, HSU Research, Power Sound Audio, Outlaw Audio, Rythmik Audio, and Reaction Audio. These Internet subwoofer vendors provide FAR better values than anything you could get from an audio store, often better than subs costing twice the MSRP from traditional speaker companies. Forget about those Polks. The subs from these companies are in a whole 'nuther class.

However, you have a really big room, and subwoofers see the whole room size. If you can expand your budget to one of the more powerful 12" ported subs from one of those vendors, it really would be worth it to have a better sub to pair up with those 701s.
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post #7 of 33 Old 08-10-2014, 08:37 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the advice. I think I'm going to go with the SVS PB1000.
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post #8 of 33 Old 08-10-2014, 08:54 AM
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Good choice!! The main reason why I mentioned the PB1000 is because they offer a 45day free in home trial and it was close to your budget. you can audition the sub in your personal theater risk free. That is much better then auditioning at a commercial location. Another company that offers a similar trial period is PSA. However their entry level sub starts at 799.00(XS15se), so that is above your budget, but they offer a 30day free trial as well. Oh and both SVS and PSA offer 5yr bumper to bumper warranties for piece of mind knowing you have half a decade of worry free bass.
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post #9 of 33 Old 08-10-2014, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcfriedrich View Post
Thanks for the advice. I think I'm going to go with the SVS PB1000.
Your choice is indeed a wise one, from the standpoint that the PB-1000 is a lot of sub for the money, but your room could be an issue for a single subwoofer with a 10" driver. If the ceilings are 8' then the space is over 3600 ft^3, which is asking a lot from one PB-1000. If the ceilings are even higher then the space becomes more of an issue. If your expectations are reasonable -- e.g. you aren't looking for a lot of "feel" or volume -- then it's definitely worth picking up a PB-1000. If you're looking for ground shaking bass you'll have to up your budget accordingly.

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post #10 of 33 Old 08-10-2014, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm not really looking for something to tear my house down, I'm actually somewhat satisfied with things the way they are, but know the system will sound better if I send the lowest frequencies to a dedicated driver, and take some of the work load off those ridiculous 5 1/2" drivers in the Bose Accoustimass modules (I bought these speakers in 1997, to go with my 4 head Hi-Fi VCR and Dolby Pro Logic receiver. Back when the surround channels were usually only 20 watts). The ceilings are actually over 9', maybe closer to 10'. I didn't measure, but my 7'11" surfboard is in the corner with well over a foot of clearance. Since my receiver has two sub outlets, I will have the opportunity to add another sub in the future. What is the difference between a ported and non-ported sub (in which situations would one be more desirable than the other)? I noticed that SVS also has the SB 1000, at the same price, with a 12" driver but no port.

Hell, who knows. Maybe I'll try out this sub, and within the 45 day trial period, decide its worth another $275 to take it to the next level and get the PB 2000...



*Edit*
I found some info on SVS website. For a larger room, I would want a ported sub. I also, using their "merlin" app, learned that I probably actually NEED two subwoofers, because there is such a difference between the accoustimass and my floor standing speakers. It recommends I set the crossover at 150 Hz for the Accoustimass and 60 Hz for the floor standing.

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post #11 of 33 Old 08-10-2014, 05:45 PM
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I own one and love it, but the SB100 definitely would not be a good choice for your room.

Most receivers other than entry level budget ones allow you to set different crossovers for different speakers, and then the appropriate audio content is sent to the sub. That being said, there is are definite advantages in having two subwoofers. Dual PB-1000s would certainly be nice
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post #12 of 33 Old 08-10-2014, 06:57 PM - Thread Starter
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I own one and love it, but the SB100 definitely would not be a good choice for your room.

Most receivers other than entry level budget ones allow you to set different crossovers for different speakers, and then the appropriate audio content is sent to the sub. That being said, there is are definite advantages in having two subwoofers. Dual PB-1000s would certainly be nice
I don't know if the Onkyo TX SR 607 allows me to modify the frequency outputs or not. Its not an entry level budget, but its certainly not a cutting edge high end model. I assume it does, its got all kinds of features I've forgotten (or never learned) how to use.

It appears that the SVS PB1000 is no longer (or temporarily un) available in the outlet part of the site. Would you recommend that subwoofer for $500 retail, or this 12", 400W sealed SW for $549 outlet?
http://www.svsound.com/specials/outl...c#.U-gidGOF8bM
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post #13 of 33 Old 08-10-2014, 07:46 PM
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I don't know if the Onkyo TX SR 607 allows me to modify the frequency outputs or not. Its not an entry level budget, but its certainly not a cutting edge high end model. I assume it does, its got all kinds of features I've forgotten (or never learned) how to use.

It appears that the SVS PB1000 is no longer (or temporarily un) available in the outlet part of the site. Would you recommend that subwoofer for $500 retail, or this 12", 400W sealed SW for $549 outlet?
http://www.svsound.com/specials/outl...c#.U-gidGOF8bM
The PB-1000 will have more max output and deeper extension. The SB12 will a little better SQ. I would not buy the SB12 for a 14x30 room. You should only consider subs with more output than the PB-1000, not less.
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post #14 of 33 Old 08-10-2014, 08:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks. I saw a larger driver with higher wattage and thought it might be a better/equal option. I'll go with the PB1000, with plans to upgrade to dual subs by the end of the year. I appreciate everyone's input.
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post #15 of 33 Old 08-10-2014, 08:37 PM
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The SB12 is a small compact sealed sub. If you take the same driver and same amp and optimize it for a sealed vs. a ported box, the ported will have more max output. And be bigger. SB12 is more for people that need a smaller sub. The upgrade from the PB-1000 would be the PB12-NSD (if they have any in the outlet) or the PB-2000. Or the Rythmik LV12R would be another choice for a a little more.

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post #16 of 33 Old 08-10-2014, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by pcfriedrich View Post
Thanks. I saw a larger driver with higher wattage and thought it might be a better/equal option. I'll go with the PB1000, with plans to upgrade to dual subs by the end of the year. I appreciate everyone's input.
Driver size and wattage are only a part of the equation. Enclosure size is probably the biggest factor. A bigger enclosure will increase sensitivity which will allow more output with less power/displacement compared to a sub with more power/displacement but a much smaller enclosure. The SB subs have far too small enclosures to expect big output. Sure 3-4 of them in a smallish size room could be very impressive, but I would not rely on a single to play with much authority in a normal to large size room.
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post #17 of 33 Old 08-12-2014, 10:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Done. PB-1000 order is placed from the outlet; $475.99 (don't tell my wife). Thanks for the advice, everyone. As an example of where my priorities lie, I still only have a 32" TV in there!!! I'd rather hear and feel a movie than see it!! So, if I run Audyssey 2EQ, that should automatically set the ideal frequency outputs?

Thanks again.

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post #18 of 33 Old 08-12-2014, 10:54 AM
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I'm sure you will enjoy it. That's a very healthy upgrade over the Bose Acoustimass bass module. Come back and share your impressions

Be sure to try some of the four to five star movies from this list: The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts
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post #19 of 33 Old 08-12-2014, 11:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Be sure to try some of the four to five star movies from this list: The New Master List of BASS in Movies with Frequency Charts
Thanks. I'll be sure to check some out!
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post #20 of 33 Old 08-12-2014, 12:40 PM
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So, if I run Audyssey 2EQ, that should automatically set the ideal frequency outputs?

2EQ doesn't have any subwoofer filters, so it won't be able to help you there.

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post #21 of 33 Old 08-22-2014, 05:26 PM - Thread Starter
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It arrived yesterday. Awesome! I'm blown away (almost literally). A couple of years ago I asked on another forum whether or not I need or should get a subwoofer. The answer I got from everybody was "do you want one? If you do, get one". Idiots. The answer is an absolute "Yes! You need (not want) a subwoofer if you expect to enjoy your home theater system the way it was intended. Half a movie's soundtrack is low frequency." Never realized how much I was missing. Thanks for the advice. Can't decide whether a 60" TV or another subwoofer will be my next purchase! So far I've watched "Lone Survivor" (helicopter crash scene is ridiculous), and "World War Z". Going to check out the list posted earlier now. I set the frequencies on the accoustimass speakers to bottom out at 100Hz, and on the 701s down to 60Hz. Still experimenting... Any suggestions?

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post #22 of 33 Old 08-22-2014, 06:29 PM
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Thanks for the advice. I think I'm going to go with the SVS PB1000.
If you do indeed have a large room, the PB-1000 isn't going to cut it.
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post #23 of 33 Old 08-22-2014, 07:07 PM - Thread Starter
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If you do indeed have a large room, the PB-1000 isn't going to cut it.
Yeah... Uhhhh... Thanks.
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post #24 of 33 Old 07-11-2015, 08:44 PM - Thread Starter
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So I've had this subwoofer for about 10 months now. Every once in a while, I get some pretty heavy distortion. Is this a defect of the speaker, or do I just not have the volume or phase adjusted correctly? Whenever I get the distortion (rare), I go back to that part of the movie, adjust volume or phase, replay that part, repeat until I feel like I got it perfect, but sometime down the road the problem seems to reappear... First subwoofer. It wasn't cheap. I know distortion can damage. Please advise...

Edit... Maybe Mix Master Ice was right... I'm trying to make it produce too much bass for the size of the room??
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post #25 of 33 Unread 07-11-2015, 09:14 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm afraid I got a defective driver. It seems you should be able to turn up the volume all the way, no matter what, with a built-in amp and not get distortion...

Its kind of a "popping" sound distortion. Like the whole things sounds and feels great at extended lows "like a star destroyer flying overhead", but I get an occasional "pop".

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post #26 of 33 Unread 07-11-2015, 09:23 PM
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So I've had this subwoofer for about 10 months now. Every once in a while, I get some pretty heavy distortion. Is this a defect of the speaker, or do I just not have the volume or phase adjusted correctly? Whenever I get the distortion (rare), I go back to that part of the movie, adjust volume or phase, replay that part, repeat until I feel like I got it perfect, but sometime down the road the problem seems to reappear... First subwoofer. It wasn't cheap. I know distortion can damage. Please advise...

Edit... Maybe Mix Master Ice was right... I'm trying to make it produce too much bass for the size of the room??

Contact SVS, they will help you out.

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post #27 of 33 Unread 07-11-2015, 10:08 PM
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I'm afraid I got a defective driver. It seems you should be able to turn up the volume all the way, no matter what, with a built-in amp and not get distortion...
That's not accurate for all subwoofers. However, I believe all SVS subs have a limiter in them to prevent you from over driving them. So quite possibly your driver is defective.
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post #28 of 33 Unread Yesterday, 12:35 AM - Thread Starter
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That's not accurate for all subwoofers. However, I believe all SVS subs have a limiter in them to prevent you from over driving them. So quite possibly your driver is defective.
Thanks. The sub is awesome. I'm in a seperate room with a Star Wars movie playing, and I can still hear and feel it like a minor earthquake. But the speakers shouldn't be making any kind of sound besides the audio.... It hasn't been happening that much, but yeah,... I'm gonna contact SVS. Thanks.
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post #29 of 33 Unread Yesterday, 09:55 AM
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Are you sure it's the driver and not port compression? The former is a bigger problem than the latter is, but given your circumstances compression is far more likely. Several of us warned that a single PB1000 would be overmatched by your room, especially if you tried to crank the volume, so I'm wondering if that bit of prescience has now manifested itself.

SVS is renown for their limiters and filters, but realistically it's next to impossible to prevent compression from a bass reflex setup unless they really cap the output to the point of almost neutering the sub. It's a drawback of the alignment I'm afraid, a delicate balancing act between output and the occasional untoward noise. You should still contact SVS, but don't be surprised if it turns out to be either compression or a subwoofer that's too small for the situation.
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post #30 of 33 Unread Yesterday, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks I revisited my owner's manual and think I found the problem. Owner's manual says that for most A/V applications, the phase should be set at 0 and low pass filter should be disabled, volume at 50%. I got bad info from youtube, and had those settings way off.
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