Sub(s) for 2 channel setup - AVS Forum
Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers > Sub(s) for 2 channel setup
SeaNile's Avatar SeaNile 10:45 PM 08-16-2014
Looking to add more bass and mids to a 2 channel setup. Currently have a Hegel H300 (not sure how to add a sub) and may go with Focal 1027 speakers. If I am looking for significant volume is it better to go with one sub or 2? I'd need a powered sub. Looks like prices are all over the place but would 2 subs be better than 1?

Any recommendations...


Thanks.

dsrussell's Avatar dsrussell 01:07 AM 08-17-2014
In order to recommend a subwoofer, we would need to know several things (see cel's FAQ, #10 : Basic Speaker Setup FAQ )

1. Room size (cubic feet)
2. Whether the room is closed off or open to other rooms (add in the volume of other rooms if it's an open-type floor plan)
3. Music or movies or both
4. How loud do you play music/movies
5. What are your goals (looking to just enhance or looking for solid tactile feel)
6. What is your budget
7. General room acoustics (hard surfaces vs soft surfaces)
8. Seating positions (single, close together or separated)
fatbottom's Avatar fatbottom 01:16 AM 08-17-2014
Does your pre-amp have pre-outs.
Do you want to use low level or high level
Do you want to have a sub with built in high pass filter, to filter out LF from your pre-power signal
What about adjustable slope for high and low pass
2 channel PEQ?
Room compensation


Music isn't that demanding so if you don't need the more complex features, something like dual SVS SB1000 or BK XLS2000. Only the more expensive SB Ultra 13 has adjustable slope and high pass crossover, PEQ, room compensation.
qguy's Avatar qguy 07:24 AM 08-17-2014
I run a 2 channel system and I am very very very happy with my sealed F15 Rythmik Servo subwoofers, their very tight and clean sounding. Tons of features to tailor the sound to your liking. Aside from the Filter and gain setting, it has PEQ, Damping, crossover slope and rumble filter. It has low level and high level inputs.
SeaNile's Avatar SeaNile 07:53 AM 08-17-2014
3600sq/ft room, family room with arched ceiling and open back to kitchen. (20x20x9)

Mostly music but would like to get the TV/DVD sound from speakers occasionally when we watch a movie or concert dvd.

I tend to play things very loudly, which is why I'm looking to add a sub to the system.

Goals, well I'd love the tactile feel but since this is a family room and I can't go crazy with subs I really want a more well rounded sound. Some speakers in this room sound/feel lost with nothing but highs and very weak lows.

Budget, nothing specific in mind but less than 1200-1500 or so. If a single $800 sub will work there is no need to spend more money!

Room is carpeted with lots of windows.

Seating position is about 14' from front wall. Also want to be able to be in the kitchen and still have good audio.

I'm clueless about what options are out there, low level vs high level, etc.

I do not have an EQ and am looking to add the sub to my Hegel H300 integrated amp.

Ideally, one sub would be best due to WAF and being able to hide a single sub.

Thanks again.
spyboy's Avatar spyboy 08:12 AM 08-17-2014
I would seriously consider going with the SVS SB-13 Ultra. This compact but sturdily built sub (92 pounds) is available from SVS as a B-Stock item for $1,399 delivered. The B-Stock (Outlet) subs are usually in mint condition. You get 45 days to decide whether to keep it or not. SVS customer service is among the best. Scroll down to see the SB-13s that are available on the following page:

http://www.svsound.com/specials/outlet-specials

http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/sealed-box/SB13-Ultra

Rythmik is also among the best in sound quality.
popalock's Avatar popalock 08:17 AM 08-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post
3600sq/ft room, family room with arched ceiling and open back to kitchen.

Mostly music but would like to get the TV/DVD sound from speakers occasionally when we watch a movie or concert dvd.

I tend to play things very loudly, which is why I'm looking to add a sub to the system.

Goals, well I'd love the tactile feel but since this is a family room and I can't go crazy with subs I really want a more well rounded sound. Some speakers in this room sound/feel lost with nothing but highs and very weak lows.

Budget, nothing specific in mind but less than 1200-1500 or so. If a single $800 sub will work there is no need to spend more money!

Room is carpeted with lots of windows.

Seating position is about 14' from front wall. Also want to be able to be in the kitchen and still have good audio.

I'm clueless about what options are out there, low level vs high level, etc.

I do not have an EQ and am looking to add the sub to my Hegel H300 integrated amp.

Ideally, one sub would be best due to WAF and being able to hide a single sub.

Thanks again.
Is this thread a joke?

You have a CNC machine pretty much at your beck and call, literally a few miles away from where you live. Why even bother with anything else when you could give @Gorilla83 a shout to whip up a box for you. Load that mother with something like a Ultimax18 or UXL18 and you have one sexy sub for under your budget. If you were feeling froggy you could get you one of those 24's everyone has been raving about over the past few months...not going to be the most WAF friendly option though.

So, why are you not going that route? What am I mssing?????
SeaNile's Avatar SeaNile 08:22 AM 08-17-2014
Since I don't have my HT setup since we moved I am trying to put together a decent 2 channel system together in the family room. Mega WAF needed since most stereo speakers and sub clash with Ethan Allen decorating....

Probably going with Focal 1027 speakers and know they will need a little help in the output and bass dept. Figured I could get 1 powered sub and hide it in a corner and that should help with output, mids and bass.

Have a Hegel H300 integrated amp that I'd like to keep but I am unsure of how to add a sub to this amp.

Just kicking around ideas right now. Had to goto Best Buy and get 2 Play5's to tide me over!!!

Ideally if I could get the TV/DVD player sound to this family room setup that would hold me over till the basement is finished and I can start another HT system.
SeaNile's Avatar SeaNile 08:44 AM 08-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by spyboy View Post
I would seriously consider going with the SVS SB-13 Ultra. This compact but sturdily built sub (92 pounds) is available from SVS as a B-Stock item for $1,399 delivered. The B-Stock (Outlet) subs are usually in mint condition. You get 45 days to decide whether to keep it or not. SVS customer service is among the best. Scroll down to see the SB-13s that are available on the following page:

http://www.svsound.com/specials/outlet-specials

http://www.svsound.com/subwoofers/sealed-box/SB13-Ultra

Rythmik is also among the best in sound quality.

How would I add this to the Hegel H300 w/DAC integrated amp I have?
shadyJ's Avatar shadyJ 10:15 AM 08-17-2014
SeaNile, for the H300, you would want to connect the subs to the pre-outs. Remember NOT to use a Y-splitter to join the pre-out output signals. Keep those signals separate.

For high WAF and nice punch for the size, it will be hard to beat a single SVS SB13 Ultra. A couple piano black SVS SB12 NSDs would be good too, higher WAF than the newer SB2000s. I would also look at a gloss black Rythmik F15HP. If you need something with a wood type finish, check out the Hsu ULS-15, powerful sub and also wireless so less spaghetti.
SeaNile's Avatar SeaNile 10:37 AM 08-17-2014
The Hegel has a L and R preout. How would i connect 1 powered sub?
shadyJ's Avatar shadyJ 11:03 AM 08-17-2014
Connect the L and R outputs to the L and R inputs of the sub. At the price range of the subs you are contemplating, most will have both L and R inputs instead of a single LFE input. One more thing I forgot to add, your Hegel is unlikely to have any kind of bass management. You might want to get a high pass filter for your speakers, so they do not try to play the same range as the subs. This takes a load off your speakers and will make for a much cleaner crossover point, and so a much better blend of speakers to subwoofer. For a simple one that works well, try this filter. If you want to get fancy with some equalization, get this DSP with its corresponding microphone, the Umik. Do not use the passive in-line filters for this job like those Harrison Labs filters, they can change the impedance response of the signal and mess up the sound.
SeaNile's Avatar SeaNile 11:10 AM 08-17-2014
Don't some subs accept the speaker wire and then send the signal along to the main speakers?

I also have an Onkyo PRSC886 not being used if that is needed for something. I'd rather power the Focal's with a more powerful amp if possible and have an unused Emotiva XPA5.

How about this option, completely starting over? I could sell my Hegel and move on.....

I want a good 2.1 system and also really want to be able to listen to concert DVD's and watch on the TV. Can't go complete 5.1 but can pull off 2.1 easily.

I would still want a pretty high WAF system so the speakers would be Focal 1027 but I am open to pre/pro/amp options but remember, I also want to be able to play music off of my iTunes. It's OK if I have to plug in my computer via USB to access music.

There are so many sub options out there, including an occasional Submersive (would that be too much for my application??).

Definitely don't want to complicate things and go with an external DAC or bass management system.
fatbottom's Avatar fatbottom 11:25 AM 08-17-2014
Correct, and some have high pass output, on low or high level input. With the low level you go from pre to sub, sub to power so the sub passes high frequencies but filters out low frequencies. I think you have to go to the Plus line to get that.
dsrussell's Avatar dsrussell 11:33 AM 08-17-2014
SeaNile. I know the PB and SB13-Ultras come with high- and low-pass filters. I think the Rythmiks do also, but you need to check. I have an SB13-Ultra in a room about your volume, and it's rather open to other rooms, but not wide open. For music it performs exceptionally well, but so would a Rythmik. For movies, it is surprisingly good, but not in the league of some others mentioned (and not mentioned) here. It's one of a few subs that can pass most WAFs.

Since you only have one seating position, a single sub may work out great. If I were to pick a single sub for that room, I think I'd go for the Rythmik FV15HP as long as they come with the RCA ports needed for you to hook up your Hegel. But the Rythmik is quite large and may not pass the WAF.

There are many companies and subs to choose from: Hsu, PSA, Reaction Audio, Rythmik Audio, SVS, and all have great subs. You need to talk to them on your unique requirements and get a feel of what they have to offer you.
SeaNile's Avatar SeaNile 11:35 AM 08-17-2014
Could also go the route of getting a new pre/pro and using my XPA-5 as the amp.

My main goal is being able to listen to my iTunes library, using my CD player and having a good 2.1 system for concert DVD's. I'm OK with physically plugging my laptop into the pre/pro. No need to go with a dedicated hard drive, etc.
DualMono's Avatar DualMono 11:44 AM 08-17-2014
SeaNile's Avatar SeaNile 11:49 AM 08-17-2014
I'm leaning towards using the XPA-5 for power and buying a new pre/pro. That will open up the options for which sub to consider.

Guess it's on to pre/pro shopping without breaking the bank. Maybe an Emotiva unit? I'd need something with a DAC for being able to use my computer and iTunes library.
fatbottom's Avatar fatbottom 11:52 AM 08-17-2014
All AVR and AV pre's have a DAC. You just need to match up the digital audio out to your AVR/AV pre-amp. I use a computer of computers, optical and coaxial. Some people use sync. USB as apparently that is more accurate that SPDIF. Then option of audio over HDMI, if your computer can do that.

For my HTPC I use onboard, it has coaxial and optical so each one is going into a different AVR/AV pre- used for PC audio rig plus sent to main HT as the HTPC is a source
dsrussell's Avatar dsrussell 12:04 PM 08-17-2014
Quote:
Originally Posted by popalock View Post
Is this thread a joke?

You have a CNC machine pretty much at your beck and call, literally a few miles away from where you live. Why even bother with anything else when you could give @Gorilla83 a shout to whip up a box for you. Load that mother with something like a Ultimax18 or UXL18 and you have one sexy sub for under your budget. If you were feeling froggy you could get you one of those 24's everyone has been raving about over the past few months...not going to be the most WAF friendly option though.

So, why are you not going that route? What am I mssing?????
No doubt. Hey, I saw pictures of your room. That's 5 tons of subwoofers in a 1-ton room. That's got to be some experience . I'm sure I could hear and feel it just fine standing in front of your electric meters outside, while I watched them spin wildly when you have your room cranked .
BassThatHz's Avatar BassThatHz 02:09 PM 08-17-2014
A pair of Ultimax-18's CNC'ed with two 1000watt plate amps would kill the SVS's, just have to pay a pro to slap some real-wood veneer finish on the MDF.





I'm sure they could make it look WAF sexy.
SeaNile's Avatar SeaNile 02:12 PM 08-17-2014
I also can't overpower my front speakers.

Focal 1027s powered by XPA-5.

Need a good 2.1 system to turn up the music and concert dvd's.
qguy's Avatar qguy 03:10 PM 08-17-2014
Go for the FV15HP, is she does not like it, tell her its going to the basement play her favorite cd and concert DVD's and eventually she would be able to live with it
enricoclaudio's Avatar enricoclaudio 04:18 PM 08-17-2014
+1 for the FV15HP. Also if you are looking for a good stereo preamp on a budget with DAC, analog bass management and HT Bypass then take a look at the Parasound Halo P5 or get an Oppo 105D and use it as a preamp.
SeaNile's Avatar SeaNile 04:27 PM 08-17-2014
What about an Emotiva UMC200 and my xpa5 amp? Would that combination work? Is also have my oppo bd83 BR player.
enricoclaudio's Avatar enricoclaudio 04:43 PM 08-17-2014
Never had the UMC200 but I had the XSP-1 for about a week and it was very good. I kept the Parasound P5 instead because the the two independent subwoofer in/out HT Bypass option which I needed to integrate the P5 with my Marantz SR7008 and share my two Rythmik Audio F12SEs in both systems.
SeaNile's Avatar SeaNile 08:05 PM 08-17-2014
So the FV15HP is the best choice for complimenting my 2 channel listening? Would the F15HP be a faster, tighter bass? Looks like the FV15HP is really geared toward HT use?

What about a Submersive? Is that overkill in a 2.1 family room setup? Granted the TV is 75" so maybe it would be a good family room 2.1 mini theater?
Gorilla83's Avatar Gorilla83 05:50 AM 08-18-2014
John - Do you still have your CHT 18's around? Why not set up a couple of those and see how you like them? IMO I'm not sure if you will be happy with any one sub (aside from something you and I would create heh) if you're planning on doing some higher volume listening.

Another thought - If you haven't bought the speakers already, why not buy a pair that will play full range? Seaton Cat 12s? You could also move them to your theater later when you get it set up.
qguy's Avatar qguy 06:10 AM 08-18-2014
The F15HP would be tighter, but the FV15HP would have more output. The Rythmik subwoofers has damping settings, Low medium high, Brian (Rythmik designer) mentioned that the sealed versions (F15HP ) is like having another level of tightness. I have the F15 (sealed) and its set to high damping and sounds is superb for 2 channel audio. I on occasions use the low damping for HT for extra oomph BUT if you have never experienced or heard the sealed version, you would still be happy with the ported versions, but if the system is primarily for 2 channel music go for the sealed versions.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SeaNile View Post
So the FV15HP is the best choice for complimenting my 2 channel listening? Would the F15HP be a faster, tighter bass? Looks like the FV15HP is really geared toward HT use?

What about a Submersive? Is that overkill in a 2.1 family room setup? Granted the TV is 75" so maybe it would be a good family room 2.1 mini theater?

SeaNile's Avatar SeaNile 06:12 AM 08-18-2014
Trying to be budget minded and also not completely take over the family room.

Thinking of picking up Focal 1027 for $2K, Emotiva UMC200 pre/pro, and an Oppo 105d for BR and can plug my computer into.

Thought this would be a nice simple system that would have a bit of kick.

Basement theater is a long way off so I want to get something up in the family room that I can enjoy.

Figure this entire setup should come in around 5K. If there are other options I'll definitely consider them!
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