Looking to replace my Supercube 2000, SC 8000? - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 26 Old 08-17-2014, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Looking to replace my Supercube 2000, SC 8000?

To give you a background on my setup:
Yamaha RX-a700 (90wx7, Aventage series)
DT Promonitor 1000 x4
DT Procenter 2000
DT Supercube 2000

I would like to Upgrade my sub. I want to have more control over the subs output to fine tune it. I'm kind of happy with the output, but would like more.
I was thinking of going SC 8000 to "future proof" for when I move into a place with a larger living room. I do not have the dimensions of my living room, but it is open to my kitchen and foyer area, so its kind of a big area to fill.

Im trying to decide if the $500 jump from the SC 6000 to the 8000 is worth it. For that $ I get 2 more inches of cone diameter, 2hz lower freq response... and that's about it. same wattage. So not hearing either one.. only the SC 2000, Im not sure its worth it. OR, should I look some place different all together? I have seen good info on the SVS PC12-plus on here. Im not sure how I feel going with a different name brand for the sub when everything else is DT. Or am I being silly? I mostly watch movies, but do enjoy some FLAC music every now and then. What you all think?
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post #2 of 26 Old 08-17-2014, 06:53 PM
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While putting together my system I demoed different speakers and subs including Super Cube 2000. I settled on DT speakers but chose do to my research here an SVS PB-2000 sub. If you have limited space the Super Cubes do fit the bill for they have a small footprint. The dollar value to output though can be found through the internet dealers like PSA, HSU, and SVS. I know with SVS you get a 45 day free trial so if you do not like it ship it back. They also offer a 1 year upgrade and have an outlet on their site with discounted subs but still have full warranty.

I'm a big movie fan and the PB-2000 gives me the room shaking bass for movies and still sounds good with music. It also has no problem blending with my DT speakers.

I'm sure others may chime in also to give you some help. Browse around some of the owners threads and you should get a feel for whats out there.

Living Room
Panasonic TC-P65ZT60, Sony PS3, Marantz SR5008, Center PC2000, Front & Surround's PM1000, Sub SVS PB-2000, Harmony Smart Remote

Bedroom
Panasonic TC-P46S1, Panasonic HTIB SA-BT200
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post #3 of 26 Old 08-17-2014, 07:14 PM
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Look at the PSA XV15SE...similar performance to the PC12+ for less money and comes with a 30day free trial. there have been a few members that stated the XV15SE was a better performer then the PB2000 and really close with the Plus. Not taking anything away from SVS, their subs are great too and you could easily be happy with one of their products. as mentioned above start checking all the ID company threads, contact the company, ask whatever questions you need fulfilled, and go from there. Plenty of solid options out there these days!!
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post #4 of 26 Old 08-17-2014, 09:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input, my main goal is to get a sub that can go LOW, or as low as possible for the $. As well as have good controls and have a small footprint. I will look into the ones you are talking about.
Is there such thing as "overkill" when it comes to a sub? I understand it can always be turned down, but as far as "too much" sub for the 5 other speakers?
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post #5 of 26 Old 08-17-2014, 10:14 PM
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Unfortunately, we are only guessing. "Kind of a big area" will have to do . So I will guess large (3,000 to 5,000 cu. ft.).

If it is LOW you are seeking, then skip the Def Techs. If it is size and looks, the Def Techs are very attractive and small. I actually like Def Tech speakers. I auditioned a couple Studio Monitors and was pleasantly surprised. I haven't auditioned their subwoofers. That being said, Def Tech exaggerates their specifications and their performance simply won't match those specs. Third party testing has shown this.

No, there is no such thing as overkill. But there such a thing as great subs, with great and accurate specs that cost less than the SC8000 and will easily outperform it. Research Hsu, PSA, Reaction Audio, Rythmik, and SVS and you'll realize that those are the companies that will fulfill your needs. And get the biggest and baddest sub you can afford (or get two very good subs) to fill that volume. There is simply no way the Def Techs can compete, other than size and looks.
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post #6 of 26 Old 08-17-2014, 11:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for that, I hate to think I'm now looking away from DT. I really have enjoyed my DT SC2000. Right now I have my eye on the SVS PC12 plus. I would like to get the PC13, but it's a bit too tall.
My appt is just over 1200sq ft. With the kitchen open to the LivingRoom, I'm not sure what the sq ft of that area is. I'll be able to get dimensions some time tomorrow.
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post #7 of 26 Old 08-17-2014, 11:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Having a "smaller" Living room compared to what others have, is there any drawback with having a ported sub vs sealed enclosure?
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post #8 of 26 Old 08-18-2014, 12:11 AM
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Ported subs have their advantages, but size isn't one of them. Ported subs are big and heavy and they will shake your walls, floors and seats. You'll be silencing rattles all over the house. That's not saying you can't get sealed subs to shake things up just as hard. They will just be a bit more expensive, but smaller.

One thing nice about I. D. companies is that you can test them out in your own home (most ship to your home for free). Two companies also allow free return shipping during the trial period. Those companies are SVS and PSA (during PSA's summer promotion).

Just go to these I.D. company's website and take a look around. Find one or two from each site that interests you and talk to them, then maybe we can help narrow the list down. However, if you really want the Def Tech, by all means buy it. I'm not saying the SC8000 is a bad sub. It's just not in the class of those that can be found via I.D. companies.
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post #9 of 26 Old 08-18-2014, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KooKoo427 View Post
Thank you for that, I hate to think I'm now looking away from DT. I really have enjoyed my DT SC2000. Right now I have my eye on the SVS PC12 plus. I would like to get the PC13, but it's a bit too tall.
My appt is just over 1200sq ft. With the kitchen open to the LivingRoom, I'm not sure what the sq ft of that area is. I'll be able to get dimensions some time tomorrow.
Interestingly I have both the PC12+ AND the DT SC8000. I replaced the SC8000 with the PC12+. It's a WAY better sub all the way around and it takes up the same amount of floor space as the SC8000. So a small footprint for sure.

Some nice things about the 12+ is the tuning, 16hz, 20hz and sealed. The amp has 2 PEQs and a bunch of other features that I don't use but that can be useful. I do use the PEQs to fine tune the output to my taste.

I've recently added the SC8000 back into my system, mainly because I couldn't sell it, so I figured I might as well use it. It sits near field in the opposite corner from the 12+. It adds just enough to help smooth out the bass, especially at lower volumes.

If you're looking for the most output with the smallest footprint the SVS cylinders are hard to beat.

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post #10 of 26 Old 08-18-2014, 08:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Interestingly I have both the PC12+ AND the DT SC8000. I replaced the SC8000 with the PC12+. It's a WAY better sub all the way around and it takes up the same amount of floor space as the SC8000. So a small footprint for sure.

Some nice things about the 12+ is the tuning, 16hz, 20hz and sealed. The amp has 2 PEQs and a bunch of other features that I don't use but that can be useful. I do use the PEQs to fine tune the output to my taste.

I've recently added the SC8000 back into my system, mainly because I couldn't sell it, so I figured I might as well use it. It sits near field in the opposite corner from the 12+. It adds just enough to help smooth out the bass, especially at lower volumes.

If you're looking for the most output with the smallest footprint the SVS cylinders are hard to beat.
Reading this... I made the order. PC13-Ultra. I e-mailed SVS and they told me enough to make me want ported as well
thank you for all the input. I will update once I get it and Install it all. Also have a new AVR on the way as well, yamaha RX-A840.
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post #11 of 26 Old 08-19-2014, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KooKoo427 View Post
Reading this... I made the order. PC13-Ultra. I e-mailed SVS and they told me enough to make me want ported as well
thank you for all the input. I will update once I get it and Install it all. Also have a new AVR on the way as well, yamaha RX-A840.
SC2000 to a PC13 Ultra is like going from a Vespa to a Hayabusa . You're in for a real treat the first time you crank it up.

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post #12 of 26 Old 08-19-2014, 03:11 PM
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Nice congrats on the purchase!!
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post #13 of 26 Old 08-20-2014, 12:15 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks fellas, I'm so phyced. Of course, I have to wait till the 21st... Which is now tomorrow I honestly don't know what to expect, but I am prepared.
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post #14 of 26 Old 08-20-2014, 03:46 AM
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Man, you're in for a good surprise.
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post #15 of 26 Old 08-20-2014, 06:45 AM
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Congrats. I still love the SVS Cylinders. Great subs. You're in for a treat

HT: Denon 4520ci | Klipsch KLF 20s | Klipsch KLF C7 | Klipsch KLF 10s | Klipsch KG 1.2s | 24" THT | Bash 300S | Panamax 5300PM | Panasonic 55VT60 | Oppo 103 | PS4 | X1
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post #16 of 26 Old 08-20-2014, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KooKoo427 View Post
Reading this... I made the order. PC13-Ultra. I e-mailed SVS and they told me enough to make me want ported as well
thank you for all the input. I will update once I get it and Install it all. Also have a new AVR on the way as well, yamaha RX-A840.
Congrats on the new sub! Now the hard choice, what movie to play first. From your first post you did some research on the PC12+ and now you have moved up and ordered the PC13-Ultra, Nice!

You may want to make sure everything is nailed down well!
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post #17 of 26 Old 08-21-2014, 11:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Alright, got everything EXCEPT my PC 2000. Got my PM 1000's yesterday, but no center. Unfortunately it was shipped today. So probably won't get that till sat. But what a nice upgrade the 600 to 1000's are. The sub and the AVR is all hooked up, So much adjusting and tweaking to do. BUT MAN does that sub go low. I have it setup in 16hz mode... LOVE IT! The bottom pedestal was damaged, but customer service said they would get a new one out to me. No biggie. Its odd, after the YAPO cal, my AVR sees my PM 1000's as large speakers. Once I get the center, I will run it again and manually set them to small and set the x-over to 80hz. I also have the Low pass on the Sub at 80hz right now..thats it. going to run that for a little.

I have tried a few movies (Inception, and Tron is what I remember right now) Both sounded great (need the center swapped thought) as for music, I put the AVR in 7ch stereo and played some various FLAC songs ( My morning jacket / Deftones/ Young The Giant/ Incubus/ Daft Pumk ) Also sounded good.

I know the DT speakers have a break-in period of about 40hr.. does the sub as well? I noticed on my couch, there is a "dead" spot. Right in the middle. Kind of sucks. I am hoping over time the sub will "break-in" and fill that spot some. Oh yea, I did the room calibration setting. I guess my living room with the kitchen attached is bigger then I thought, had to put that on the highest setting (25hz if I remember?)

So far I am loving the sub. No... I did not full out crank it yet, have my in-laws over for some time, and my son was sleeping when I first hooked it up. I should have some time to really let that sub stretch tomorrow.

Thank you,
-Andre
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post #18 of 26 Old 08-22-2014, 06:37 AM
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I believe Y pao tends to set speakers large if there -3db is below 80hz. As far as the sub breaking in and filling a dead spot, 99.99% chance that is not going to happen. The dead spot is a null created by the room interaction with the sub. To fill that spot you will need to either move the sub, move the listening postition, or add more subs. It will pretty much be a sacrafice at some point because 1 sub can not smooth any room modes. Many of us run multiple subs to get a even bass response across multiple seats.
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post #19 of 26 Old 08-22-2014, 11:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KooKoo427 View Post
Alright, got everything EXCEPT my PC 2000. Got my PM 1000's yesterday, but no center. Unfortunately it was shipped today. So probably won't get that till sat. But what a nice upgrade the 600 to 1000's are. The sub and the AVR is all hooked up, So much adjusting and tweaking to do. BUT MAN does that sub go low. I have it setup in 16hz mode... LOVE IT! The bottom pedestal was damaged, but customer service said they would get a new one out to me. No biggie. Its odd, after the YAPO cal, my AVR sees my PM 1000's as large speakers. Once I get the center, I will run it again and manually set them to small and set the x-over to 80hz. I also have the Low pass on the Sub at 80hz right now..thats it. going to run that for a little.

I have tried a few movies (Inception, and Tron is what I remember right now) Both sounded great (need the center swapped thought) as for music, I put the AVR in 7ch stereo and played some various FLAC songs ( My morning jacket / Deftones/ Young The Giant/ Incubus/ Daft Pumk ) Also sounded good.

I know the DT speakers have a break-in period of about 40hr.. does the sub as well? I noticed on my couch, there is a "dead" spot. Right in the middle. Kind of sucks. I am hoping over time the sub will "break-in" and fill that spot some. Oh yea, I did the room calibration setting. I guess my living room with the kitchen attached is bigger then I thought, had to put that on the highest setting (25hz if I remember?)

So far I am loving the sub. No... I did not full out crank it yet, have my in-laws over for some time, and my son was sleeping when I first hooked it up. I should have some time to really let that sub stretch tomorrow.

Thank you,
-Andre
Speaker break in is 99.999999999999999% myth. And there is no need to break in the sub either.

I'd leave the low pass off. I'd probably also run the crossover at 100hz since the pro monitors are still relatively small satellites. Your sub will have much more output at 100hz than all three of your front speakers combined.

As for the dead spot, like BH said, you'll need to move the sub or the LP to fix it now or get another sub to fix it later. Do a sub crawl if you can.

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post #20 of 26 Old 08-22-2014, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KooKoo427 View Post
I know the DT speakers have a break-in period of about 40hr.. does the sub as well? I noticed on my couch, there is a "dead" spot. Right in the middle. Kind of sucks. I am hoping over time the sub will "break-in" and fill that spot some.
I won't make any "absolute" statements concerning break-in periods. Absolute statements are usually wrong. Break-in periods vary depending upon the material used (for conventional speakers it's often the surround material used). Most speakers sound just fine out of the box but some will take more time than others to reach their specified depth. Many subwoofers (and speakers) are pretty much broken in at the factory during testing (if they are indeed tested). Panel speakers, for instance, take far longer than 40 hours to reach their stated specification, simply because it takes time for the mylar to stretch out.

Take Kini's and basshead's advice on moving that subwoofer until it works for you (or think about multiples in the future if you cannot find a good spot to get rid of that null).

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post #21 of 26 Old 08-22-2014, 08:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the info, I got to mess with the sub a little today, not as much as I would have liked though. So, I decided im going to keep my SC2000 and put it right next my TV and use it with the PC13, I know it has low output compared to the PC13, but I will try to set it up to fill in those little dead spots, or at least try. Any recommendations on setting this up? Im assuming try to get them both as close to 0db (one at a time) on the AVR YPAO, then drop them both down about 2 DB( so its back to 0DB again) Is that correct? Or am I way off?


What about phase? adjustable on the PC13, but not the SC2000. Is that going to be an issue?

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post #22 of 26 Old 08-23-2014, 10:49 AM
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The phase should be adjustable on the SC2000, it is on my SC8000, 0, 90, 180 and 270.

The SC2000 is so weak in comparison to the PC I'm thinking you need to put it as close to the LP as you can or it really won't matter much.

I have my SC8000 4-5ft from my LP and the PC 11ft. I "blended" them together by ear. It worked out quite well. TASM2 last night sounded great.

So I think moving the SC next to the LP and setting it up manually after setting up the PC would be how I would do it.

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post #23 of 26 Old 08-23-2014, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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The phase should be adjustable on the SC2000, it is on my SC8000, 0, 90, 180 and 270.

The SC2000 is so weak in comparison to the PC I'm thinking you need to put it as close to the LP as you can or it really won't matter much.

I have my SC8000 4-5ft from my LP and the PC 11ft. I "blended" them together by ear. It worked out quite well. TASM2 last night sounded great.

So I think moving the SC next to the LP and setting it up manually after setting up the PC would be how I would do it.
The SC 2000 has no adjustments, only volume. Ok, I'll do my best to adjust.
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post #24 of 26 Old 08-23-2014, 01:34 PM
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The SC 2000 has no adjustments, only volume. Ok, I'll do my best to adjust.
Oops. Thought it was like the 4000 and up with the remote and stuff.

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post #25 of 26 Old 08-23-2014, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Oops. Thought it was like the 4000 and up with the remote and stuff.
Nope.. it kind of sux in that regard. Otherwise, its not all too bad. but... eh. So, I found a really good deal on a SC4000, I should be able to sell my SC2000 for some $ to offset some. I am really intrigued by dual subwoofer setup. I can have the SC4000 do 20hz and up.. and have the PC13 do just about everything. When adjusting dual subwoofers, is there any rules I should follow? For example, when it comes to phase, should they be the same or opposing? (never setup dual subs before, cant you tell?) Any info would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
-Andre

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post #26 of 26 Old 08-24-2014, 01:26 AM - Thread Starter
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If you all get a moment... could you take a look at this other thread I started?
Front / surround speakers in place as "center"... or dedicated center speaker??

Im just curious what people have to say about it. TY.
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