Rythmic vs Outlaw subs... - AVS Forum
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Old 08-26-2014, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Rythmic vs Outlaw subs...

Two subs under strong consideration for a 14 x 22 foot theater room (8 foot ceilings). A second sub will be purchased not too far down the road, so I am looking at 12 inch subs:
1. RTHYMICS LV12R Direct Servo subwoofer- rear ported, 300 wats and suppose to hit clean down to 20 hz. $599.00 shipped
2. Outlaw LFM-1 EX Subwoofer 12 inch 350 watt, down firing with dual ports. Also suppose to hit a clean 20 hz $649.00, shipped

Opinions? I own the EMptek10i10i, a good sub, but it has been discontinue and isn't capable of 20hz on its best day. Very good, accurate sub, however. I have compared this sub to the Klipsch 12wd, and the SVS Pb1000 and the EMP was, IMHO, the equal or better sub in both challenges (kicked the Klipsch to the street and at least, was every bit as good as the SVS). Thoughts? I haven't heard subs from HSU, or Reaction Audio, the other often mentioned budget subs that can kick it!

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Old 08-26-2014, 12:04 PM
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I don't believe that $649 price tag of the Outlaw includes shipping. I've owned both subs and they each had their strengths. The Rythmik played cleaner. The Outlaw obviously extends a little lower and is more powerful (it didn't sound bad just not as clean as the LV12R). The EX is going to run you close to $750 after shipping is tacked on to the price. I think dual LV12R's should do fine in that size of a room. Your other option in the range of $600 is the HSU VTF2-MK4. Another subwoofer that you should research as well.

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Old 08-26-2014, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
EMP was, IMHO, the equal or better sub in both challenges , was every bit as good as the SVS). Thoughts?
Interesting since the PB1000 extends solidly down to 19hz.

Are you planning on keeping and using your 1010 sub with the new sub? It would certainly help.

At $600 shipped the LVR12 is most likely your top choice.

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Old 08-26-2014, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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The SVS sub definitely could hit lower that the EMP, however, it wasn't to a large degree. From my untrained ear, however, the EMP sub was better in the upper bass range, maybe 40-80hz and I felt it was more accurate. The SVS sub could hit lower and had abit more output, for certain...but I listened to several classical pieces with both subs and felt the EMP sub was a better musical sub than the SVS. Now, for the movie Oblivion, the EMP sub distorted a couple times on very bass heavy scenes and the SVS played clean. That is the only movie I own that makes my EMP sub "unfaithful"...

Both very good subs, btw...

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Old 08-26-2014, 01:18 PM
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Outlaw has sales fairly frequently - in late June, they had the LFM-1 EX on sale for $599, shipped.

IMO, if you're not in a hurry to buy, wait for the next sale on the LFM and get one (or two) of those.
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Old 08-26-2014, 01:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
The SVS sub definitely could hit lower that the EMP, however, it wasn't to a large degree. From my untrained ear, however, the EMP sub was better in the upper bass range, maybe 40-80hz and I felt it was more accurate. The SVS sub could hit lower and had abit more output, for certain...but I listened to several classical pieces with both subs and felt the EMP sub was a better musical sub than the SVS. Now, for the movie Oblivion, the EMP sub distorted a couple times on very bass heavy scenes and the SVS played clean. That is the only movie I own that makes my EMP sub "unfaithful"...

Both very good subs, btw...
Are you opposed to used? There is another member on here who has a PB-12 NSD and is upgrading to something larger. I would imagine he would be selling the SVS to fund the bigger sub. I would take the PB-12 NSD over the Outlaw and Rythmik.

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Old 08-26-2014, 01:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eljaycanuck View Post
Outlaw has sales fairly frequently - in late June, they had the LFM-1 EX on sale for $599, shipped.

IMO, if you're not in a hurry to buy, wait for the next sale on the LFM and get one (or two) of those.
+1. I own one of the lfm ex's and it's a monster at $599. That rythmik sub is awesome too so you can't really go wrong, their servo tech is supposed to be top notch.

Another member said he would take the pb12-nsd over the outlaw, and I have to respectfully disagree on this. I had both of them in my home at one time, and the outlaw had noticeably more output in the mid bass region, which I found preferable. The pb12 does extend a little deeper though which is nice, it's just a preference thing I guess. It might also play a little cleaner, but I wouldn't say definitively so.

Now if that pb12 is much less money, that opens things up

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Old 08-26-2014, 01:43 PM
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The HSU VTF-3 is on sale for 738.00 shipped. I would take that sub all day over the EX when the EX is not on sale. Bigger ports and will play much cleaner with more output.
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Old 08-26-2014, 01:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
+1. I own one of the lfm ex's and it's a monster at $599. That rythmik sub is awesome too so you can't really go wrong, their servo tech is supposed to be top notch.

Another member said he would take the pb12-nsd over the outlaw, and I have to respectfully disagree on this. I had both of them in my home at one time, and the outlaw had noticeably more output in the mid bass region, which I found preferable. The pb12 does extend a little deeper though which is nice, it's just a preference thing I guess. It might also play a little cleaner, but I wouldn't say definitively so.

Now if that pb12 is much less money, that opens things up
My nod for the PB12-NSD over the Outlaw was soley based on if it was used and being offered at a great deal. The SVS holds it's composure much better down low, but it definitely gets trumped in output by the EX above 30hz. However, like basshead said for roughly the same price I would take the HSU VTF3-MK4 over the EX any day of the week.

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Old 08-26-2014, 03:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I really wanted the Legacy Goliath...but not for 10,000 dollars! Thanks guys, lots of good suggestions..

Can someone explain to me what a "direct servo" woofer is and why it might have some advantages? Is this like Bose's "twiddler technology" ?!

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Old 08-26-2014, 04:37 PM
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I spent some time with a Rythmik FV12, which is a lot like the LV12 except that it was front ported, and I compared it to an LFM-1 EX that I had on hand. I did level-matched, immediate A/B switching so the comparison is pretty close. What I found was that the Rythmik managed to catch some upper bass detail on certain sounds that the Outlaw missed, but the Outlaw was more powerful. The Rythmik was no weakling, but the Outlaw is a pretty clean and articulate sub, so these differences weren't huge. The Rythmik is a great sub for the price. As has been mentioned, with the Hsu VTF3 on sale and the Outlaw not, I would go for the VTF3 over the Outlaw. If you do not intend to listen at high volumes and don't care as much about super deep <20 Hz frequencies, I would go for the Rythmik. Otherwise, go for the VTF3.
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Old 08-26-2014, 05:10 PM
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Elihawk, your room is just about the same medium size as mine, cubic feet wise at least. I would rule out the used PB12-NSD, as that's a discontinued model and would be harder to acquire a second one down the road. I can't speak on the Rythmik LV12 from experience, but have heard many positives on it's clean performance.

Based on your choices, I'm assuming you want to keep the price around $600. As previously mentioned, Outlaw does have a sale every so often, so if you can wait them out, their LFM-1 Plus for $499 and LFM-1 EX for $599 are great deals. One of the Plus model fills my room pretty well. I would imagine two of them would really be great. Two of those for $998 will give you more than enough for that space.
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Old 08-26-2014, 05:44 PM
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I know a member who had an Outlaw LFM1 Plus and then picked up an LV12R. He preferred the Rythmik over the Outlaw.
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Old 08-26-2014, 07:10 PM
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The LV12R is on sale for $569 shipped until September 9th.

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Old 08-26-2014, 07:26 PM
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Cosmetically, the Outlaw subs look dead sexy. Glossy black with smoked plexi-glass on top. They look like a quality made product. The Rythmik LV12r looks rather plain and cheap looking.
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Old 08-27-2014, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
Cosmetically, the Outlaw subs look dead sexy. Glossy black with smoked plexi-glass on top. They look like a quality made product. The Rythmik LV12r looks rather plain and cheap looking.
Pretty bold to imply Rythmik subs are cheap and just silly on your behalf.

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Old 08-27-2014, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
Cosmetically, the Outlaw subs look dead sexy. Glossy black with smoked plexi-glass on top. They look like a quality made product. The Rythmik LV12r looks rather plain and cheap looking.
It's pretty tough to make statements like this without seeing Rythmiks in person. People say this type of stuff about rythmik and PSA, however everyone that has been over seems to prefer the aesthetics of my PSA subs over the outlaw, WAF is higher too somehow. You never know what people will find attractive.

In any event, I'm a big fan of the outlaw ex at $599. If nothing else it's massive and provides an imposing presence in the room. I think it comes down to the OP's price range and patience level. Eli, what is your price range and are you willing to wait for a sale later this year?

BH, JT, and shadyj have mentioned the VTF-3 which is definitely the best sub mentioned so far. If $750 is in budget and you can't wait for a sale, then I vote for that as well.

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Old 08-27-2014, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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price range, well, I would like to stay in the 5-600 dollar range, which translates to 1-1,200 dollars when I eventually get a second one. For me, it is NOT about output. my EMP10i10i has as much output as is needed in my room...it can get VERY loud. however, i recognized that the quality of the home theater experience is enhanced when all the bass is not coming from one location.

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Old 08-27-2014, 11:14 AM
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Pretty bold to imply Rythmik subs are cheap and just silly on your behalf.
Simply a statement based on the generic look of the LV12R. Not at all a reference to the sound quality or capabilities of the LV12R. Nothing silly about it. Not sure where you are getting me saying "Rythmik subs are cheap." Not at all what I said, JT78681.
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Old 08-27-2014, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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IMHO and maybe I am in the minority...but 95% of subwoofers are UGLY damn boxes! SQ is the number 1 prioroty and I have no WAF filters to go through, but I can understand why a lot of women would objection to a huge black box or two in "their" living rooms!
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Old 08-27-2014, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Elihawk View Post
IMHO and maybe I am in the minority...but 95% of subwoofers are UGLY damn boxes! SQ is the number 1 prioroty and I have no WAF filters to go through, but I can understand why a lot of women would objection to a huge black box or two in "their" living rooms!
For $1200 total expense I really doubt you can beat dual outlaw EX's. It would take DIY and even then I am not so sure it's worth it. If I were you I would wait for the next sale, and typically they have a Labor Day or Black Friday special. Labor Day might not happen this year since they literally just wrapped up their 15th anniversary sale earlier this month (plus usually it's already going by now).
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Old 08-27-2014, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FattyMcButterPants View Post
For $1200 total expense I really doubt you can beat dual outlaw EX's. It would take DIY and even then I am not so sure it's worth it. If I were you I would wait for the next sale, and typically they have a Labor Day or Black Friday special. Labor Day might not happen this year since they literally just wrapped up their 15th anniversary sale earlier this month (plus usually it's already going by now).

You can build 2 SI-18 Ported subs for 1200.00 with a Inuke 3000dsp that would make those EX's sound like bose acoustimass modules.

2 - SI-18" drivers = 422.00 https://www.asecurecart.net/server/c...x/sundownaudio

2 - stone henge 18" enclosures from diysoundgroup.com = 210.00 http://www.diysoundgroup.com/checkout/cart/

1- Inuke 3000dsp = 279.00 http://www.parts-express.com/behring...-dsp--248-6706

Mis. Hardware and enclosure finish(duratex) = 200.00
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Old 08-27-2014, 11:06 PM
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You can build 2 SI-18 Ported subs for 1200.00 with a Inuke 3000dsp that would make those EX's sound like bose acoustimass modules.

2 - SI-18" drivers = 422.00 https://www.asecurecart.net/server/c...x/sundownaudio

2 - stone henge 18" enclosures from diysoundgroup.com = 210.00 http://www.diysoundgroup.com/checkout/cart/

1- Inuke 3000dsp = 279.00 http://www.parts-express.com/behring...-dsp--248-6706

Mis. Hardware and enclosure finish(duratex) = 200.00
Haha i stand corrected. I can't help but feel the Bose reference is an exaggeration, but I would love to try something like that one day and find out.

Not sure if DIY is an option Eli but people around here RAVE about it.
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Old 08-28-2014, 07:41 AM - Thread Starter
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What, the Bose Acoutimas bass module is the best out there!? Shocking news...

Set up #1: EMP e5ti, e5Ci, and SLS Q line Audio surrounds, EMP 10i10i sub
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Old 08-28-2014, 12:08 PM
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I'd be astonished if this doesn't go today.

http://www.svsound.com/specials/outl...b12-nsd-outlet
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Old 08-28-2014, 01:21 PM - Thread Starter
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JT, I appreciate the deal that you linked, but for me, I want to by a second sub in a year or so and would like it to be "matching"...

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Old 08-28-2014, 03:56 PM
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SVS just unleashed a horde of PB12-NSD subs to the outlet.
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Old 08-28-2014, 05:25 PM
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Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
SVS just unleashed a horde of PB12-NSD subs to the outlet.
Yeah they did! If you can tolerate slight cosmetic defects these are killer deals.
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Old 08-28-2014, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE View Post
SVS just unleashed a horde of PB12-NSD subs to the outlet.
How does the PB12-NSD compare to the Outlaw LFM-1 EX?
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Old 08-28-2014, 07:32 PM
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How does the PB12-NSD compare to the Outlaw LFM-1 EX?
PB12-NSD measurements
Outlaw Audio LFM-1 EX measurements

Summary is the PB12 NSD handles deep bass more cleanly, but the Outlaw has a significant output advantage above 30 Hz. $500 for the PB12 is a really smokin' deal considering its deep bass performance, however if you are buying a sub for music, the outlaw does get much louder in the bass range of music.
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