Dynamo 500, 700w, and decisions! - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 15 Old 12-08-2014, 10:52 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
nalthien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Dynamo 500, 700w, and decisions!

A couple years back, I purchased some Martin Logan Motion 40 towers, a Motion 8 for a center, and a Dynamo 500 sub. Recently, I've been working on upgrading and I'm switching out the Motion 40's for a pair of Martin Logan Theos speakers. Taking advantage of the current special ML is running, I'm getting a Dynamo 700w included. This presents me with some interesting options--I'd love to get some thoughts here. Keeping in mind that my room is very large with high vaulted ceilings.

Proceeds from any sale would most likely be put towards a new ML Motif X center or a new AV rack.

1. Sell the 500. While they share the same driver, the 700 has a more powerful amp and is in a sealed box (having tested in the past, I tend to prefer the tightness of sealed enclosures over ported). I'm sure I could get $250 - $300 for it.

2. Sell the 700 new in box. I could either try to do this online and get full price (or very close to it) or my shop has offered me $500 for it despite knowing that I got it free.

3. Run both the 500 and the 700 for 2 subs. I'm not sure how this would play out; but, it's an option and one I am considering.

4. Sell both the 500 and 700 and go with something higher end than either of them (missing the opportunity to add other gear at this time).

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
nalthien is online now  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 15 Old 12-09-2014, 12:38 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dsrussell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Corona, CA.
Posts: 1,866
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 524 Post(s)
Liked: 534
Well, since you're getting the ML Ethos, one of maybe two or three of the very best speakers that I've heard in recent years, I'd say you deserve a top-end sub as well. The problem is, I don't know what you mean by a very large room. What is the cubic footage and is it open to other rooms? That will be the number one parameter as far as what sub. If you're looking at under 5,000 cu. ft., I'd say a Seaton SubMersive is the top dog as far as sealed subs are concerned, unless it is now the PSA Triax (3 opposing 18-inch drivers!!). Or you could think about dual PSA XS30se's. Both the XS30se and Seaton SubMersive have similar designs (dual opposing 15-inch drivers). If you're looking at over 5,000 cubic feet, then dual Seatons or dual Triax ... or triple XS30se. I'd also look at dual Rythmik subwoofers. The FV15HP is Rythmik's top dog and a terrific sub, but it's ported. They do have some really nice sealed subs, so take a look.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 & C48, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95 and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek R5Bi, PSA XS30, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
dsrussell is online now  
post #3 of 15 Old 12-09-2014, 01:07 AM
Senior Member
 
snyderkv's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Posts: 447
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by nalthien View Post
A couple years back, I purchased some Martin Logan Motion 40 towers, a Motion 8 for a center, and a Dynamo 500 sub. Recently, I've been working on upgrading and I'm switching out the Motion 40's for a pair of Martin Logan Theos speakers. Taking advantage of the current special ML is running, I'm getting a Dynamo 700w included. This presents me with some interesting options--I'd love to get some thoughts here. Keeping in mind that my room is very large with high vaulted ceilings.

Proceeds from any sale would most likely be put towards a new ML Motif X center or a new AV rack.

1. Sell the 500. While they share the same driver, the 700 has a more powerful amp and is in a sealed box (having tested in the past, I tend to prefer the tightness of sealed enclosures over ported). I'm sure I could get $250 - $300 for it.

2. Sell the 700 new in box. I could either try to do this online and get full price (or very close to it) or my shop has offered me $500 for it despite knowing that I got it free.

3. Run both the 500 and the 700 for 2 subs. I'm not sure how this would play out; but, it's an option and one I am considering.

4. Sell both the 500 and 700 and go with something higher end than either of them (missing the opportunity to add other gear at this time).

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
I'm no expert but how would a single 10' suffice over two Ethos subs that drop to 34hz? The 700w might be stretching it's legs to keep up. I have a 700w and my two Spires that dip to 29hz felt more powerful. Although not an exact side by side comparison
snyderkv is online now  
post #4 of 15 Old 12-09-2014, 09:09 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
nalthien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Thanks both of you for your thoughts. The main thing to point out is that you both read "Ethos" when the model I'm getting are the "Theos" (same panel, different woofer config).

The Theos' response goes down to 43hz and features one 8" passive woofer

The Ethos' response goes down to 34hz and features one 8" passive woofer (identical to Theos) and an 8" active woofer (200w powered amp).

The basic advice among everyone buying and selling Martin Logan is that if you're going to have a dedicated sub, there's no reason to buy the Ethos over the Theos--you can use the $2k price difference to do dedicated subs better. That said, after purchasing the Theos (and a pre/pro and an amp) I don't have another $2k to spend on subs at the moment. Since I have access to a couple of decent (understandably not awesome) options, I want to evaluate my options.

When I demoed the Theos, I heard them paired with a Dynamo 700 and it provided very clearly defined low-end that (at least in the well-set-up demo room) worked very nicely. I'm open to getting rid of both both Dynamos and doing something different; but, I wouldn't have much of a budget to work with above the $750 or so that I'd get out of selling both of those--probably a max at the moment of like $1200.
nalthien is online now  
post #5 of 15 Old 12-09-2014, 11:35 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dsrussell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Corona, CA.
Posts: 1,866
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 524 Post(s)
Liked: 534
Sorry about the Theos / Ethos mixup.

Again, room volume is important. You haven't mentioned it other than very large. If your need is only for music, subwoofer requirements go down. A $1200 budget could get you a very nice sub from any of the I.D. companies. Just take a look at what they have to offer. In the meantime, do a subwoofer crawl with your current Dynamo 700 and place it in the best sonic location. That should give you an idea if you have any hope of filling that volume. Then experiment by placing your second sub at different locations to see if it helps or hurts.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 & C48, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95 and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek R5Bi, PSA XS30, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
dsrussell is online now  
post #6 of 15 Old 12-09-2014, 12:11 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 17
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked: 1
I have a Dynamo 500, and I think its a terrible subwoofer. Limited output, no output below 40Hz, and it doesn't even sound that tight.

Your speakers deserve so much better. I have far lower quality speakers than the Theos, and I think the Dynamo 500 is not good enough for my speakers.
bcodemz is online now  
post #7 of 15 Old 12-09-2014, 01:29 PM
Member
 
cembros's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 178
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 79 Post(s)
Liked: 19
Hey nalthien I just shot you a PM regarding the Motif X.
cembros is offline  
post #8 of 15 Old 12-09-2014, 01:39 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Kini62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hawaii
Posts: 3,382
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 346 Post(s)
Liked: 437
Quote:
Originally Posted by nalthien View Post

4. Sell both the 500 and 700 and go with something higher end than either of them (missing the opportunity to add other gear at this time).

Thanks in advance for your thoughts!
This ^

Get the single best sub you can within your budget and then maybe try and get a second one down the road.

If you can swing $2K the Reaction Audio PS18X would be a terrific sub.

IMO this is a great value at $1500

http://www.chanemusiccinema.com/chan...er-Package-Two

A single PSA XS30 or a pair of Reaction Audio S15s at $1200 to your door is also a good deal and right at your budget.

Klipsch RF-62II, RC-500, RS-400, SVS PC12+,
Def Tech SC8000
Harman Kardon AVR 1600
PS3, Apple TV, Sharp 70" Qattron
Kini62 is online now  
post #9 of 15 Old 12-09-2014, 02:21 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
nalthien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
Sorry about the Theos / Ethos mixup.

Again, room volume is important. You haven't mentioned it other than very large. If your need is only for music, subwoofer requirements go down. A $1200 budget could get you a very nice sub from any of the I.D. companies. Just take a look at what they have to offer. In the meantime, do a subwoofer crawl with your current Dynamo 700 and place it in the best sonic location. That should give you an idea if you have any hope of filling that volume. Then experiment by placing your second sub at different locations to see if it helps or hurts.
Yeah, totally understood! I meant to mention this morning that I'll post the dimensions this evening--a quick back of the envelope estimate put the "open area" right at 5000 sqft--but I don't know how accurate that is. I'm at work today; so no chance to get the measuring tape out!
nalthien is online now  
post #10 of 15 Old 12-09-2014, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
nalthien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Ok, took some measurements when I got home this evening. My primary room is 4290 cubic feet with the entire top open to another 1980 cubic feet in a loft for a total just shy of 6200 cubic feet. There's also a small open doorway into the kitchen representing another representing another 2000 or so cubic feet. So, as I said, large room situation (one of the many reasons I dislike my vaulted ceilings).
nalthien is online now  
post #11 of 15 Old 12-09-2014, 11:36 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
nalthien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Been thinking a lot more on this topic tonight--and been doing a bit of research. Subwoofers are an area in which I am way behind in terms of my knowledge and you guys have given me a lot to think about. Outside of this forum, I've honestly never heard of the companies that folks are suggesting--the most experience I've had with subwoofers has been in car audio when I was younger.

All that said, there are a few factors at play here:

Between the new Theos towers, new AV7702 pre/pro, and new XPA-5 amp, I've already almost tripled what I'd originally set out to spend. My original plan was to replace my Motion 40's with a pair of ElectroMotion ESLs...then I demoed the Theos. So, the position I'm in is basically that I won't have any budget for more audio gear for at least 6 months. With that in mind, I'm OK with something that's an "interim solution."

My room is a total of about 6200 cubic feet--far more than I want it to be.

This is not a dedicated theater or even listening room; it's my family room. As such, my primary use for a subwoofer at the moment is to "round out" the low frequencies that my main speakers won't reach. I'm not looking for "gut punching" bass--at least, not as a primary concern.

I like the sound of a good kick drum--and I like a sub to be punchy and crisp with it. Boomy, one-note bass has been the bane of my existence with every subwoofer I've owned (including the quality JLAudio stuff I had in my car) and I honestly don't fully know what I'm doing wrong.

My current use is probably split about 50/50 between Movies/TV and music. I'm far more critical about music and I'm willing to lean towards subwoofers that will provide more accuracy if it means giving up a bit of that "movie theater rumble." I suspect this is why I tend to prefer sealed to ported enclosures.

Lastly, the other items I first listed, a new cabinet and new center are both priority items for me as well. The cabinet especially to clear the large "TV stand" type cabinet out of our living room to free up space.

Thank you all for your suggestions; I'm seriously considering selling what I've got and ordering something from PSA or Rhythmik (honestly, it brings a smile to my face on the PSA site to see the "free shipping + free returns" icon). I hope the extra information I've provided helps with any other advice.
nalthien is online now  
post #12 of 15 Old 12-10-2014, 02:13 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dsrussell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Corona, CA.
Posts: 1,866
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 524 Post(s)
Liked: 534
nalthien: Thanks for more detail information. And don't worry about waiting. Get what you need done first. These subwoofers will be available when you decide to purchase your sub. And when you get that sub, you'll need to do a subwoofer crawl test in order to place that sub where it will sound the best at your listening position. The correct location of a subwoofer is critical to your enjoyment.

I fully understand your preference for sealed designs to go along with your ESL panel speakers. I felt the same way for my Maggies. I tested out 3 sealed subs for my panel speakers and was surprised that only one sub passed all of my tests in what I was looking for in music reproduction. However, there are accurate ported subs, so don't let that dissuade you from putting a known accurate ported sub on a short list (such as Rythmik's top dog, the FV15HP -- $1339 for black matte or black oak and $1559 for piano black).

But more in line with your maximum budget, there are two sealed subs that come to my mind, and I've already mentioned one you should really consider for your large room … the PSA XS30se @ $1249 in matte black (I own their previous version, the XS30). The other subwoofer that is worthy of considering would be the E15SE from Rythmik. Price starts at $1024 for black matte, $1174 for black oak and $1349 for piano black (check with Rythmik on the shipping). While I doubt the E15SE will have the output of the XS30se and I'm positive it won't have LFE capability (it is a smaller box than the PSA and has a single 15-inch driver vs. two 15-inch drivers), it's an impressive sub that has accuracy written all over it. Jim Wilson reviewed this sub, along side the $1600 SVS SB13-Ultra (the subwoofer I own -- for music only) and Jim slightly preferred the Rythmik. That's saying something, because the SB13-Ultra is one terrific sub.

I'd also look at the Rythmik F15HP ($1074 in matte black, $1224 black oak and $1399 in piano black. This is the subwoofer I wanted to audition along side the SB13, but there was a 6 month back log at the time (over 1-1/2 years ago), so that didn't happen.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 & C48, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95 and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek R5Bi, PSA XS30, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
dsrussell is online now  
post #13 of 15 Old 12-10-2014, 03:34 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
nalthien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsrussell View Post
But more in line with your maximum budget, there are two sealed subs that come to my mind, and I've already mentioned one you should really consider for your large room … the PSA XS30se @ $1249 in matte black (I own their previous version, the XS30). The other subwoofer that is worthy of considering would be the E15SE from Rythmik. Price starts at $1024 for black matte, $1174 for black oak and $1349 for piano black (check with Rythmik on the shipping). While I doubt the E15SE will have the output of the XS30se and I'm positive it won't have LFE capability (it is a smaller box than the PSA and has a single 15-inch driver vs. two 15-inch drivers), it's an impressive sub that has accuracy written all over it. Jim Wilson reviewed this sub, along side the $1600 SVS SB13-Ultra (the subwoofer I own -- for music only) and Jim slightly preferred the Rythmik. That's saying something, because the SB13-Ultra is one terrific sub.

I'd also look at the Rythmik F15HP ($1074 in matte black, $1224 black oak and $1399 in piano black. This is the subwoofer I wanted to audition along side the SB13, but there was a 6 month back log at the time (over 1-1/2 years ago), so that didn't happen.
So, it's funny: the 3 models i spent some time comparing this evening were the 3 you mentioned here. I was actually going to ask folks about the comparison between the F15HP vs the FV15HP--folks seem extremely high on the FV15HP and I don't see as much mention of the sealed variant.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by the phrase, "LFE capability?" I know what the LFE channel is; however, I'm not sure how a subwoofer wouldn't be "capable" of reproducing it.

Thanks for all of your help--I really appreciate it!
nalthien is online now  
post #14 of 15 Old 12-10-2014, 11:41 AM
AVS Special Member
 
dsrussell's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Corona, CA.
Posts: 1,866
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 524 Post(s)
Liked: 534
Quote:
Originally Posted by nalthien View Post
So, it's funny: the 3 models i spent some time comparing this evening were the 3 you mentioned here. I was actually going to ask folks about the comparison between the F15HP vs the FV15HP--folks seem extremely high on the FV15HP and I don't see as much mention of the sealed variant.

Can you elaborate on what you mean by the phrase, "LFE capability?" I know what the LFE channel is; however, I'm not sure how a subwoofer wouldn't be "capable" of reproducing it.
I consider my SVS SB13-Ultra equal to the Rythmik E15HP (the E15SE I mentioned is the piano black version). Jim Wilson's review of the two pretty much confirmed my suspicions. See post number 102: Rythmik E15 vs SVS SB13 Ultra Playing movies my XS30 could outperform the SB13, getting deeper and with more output. That means I had to silence more rattles throughout the house. The XS30 could shake my walls, floors, seats and myself significantly. The SB13 is no slouch, just not as impressive.

Most people here are interested in output, as you should be because of room volume. Most people choose ported over sealed because of that. They also feel ported is just as good for music as sealed and people could not tell if the sub used is ported or sealed in a blind comparison. I tend to agree, at least to a point.

Music area: Magnepan 3.6, McIntosh MC2205 & C48, SVS SB13-Ultra, Oppo BDP 95 and assorted equipment.
Movie area: EMP Tek R5Bi, PSA XS30, Denon X2000, Oppo BDP 83.
dsrussell is online now  
post #15 of 15 Unread Today, 06:14 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
nalthien's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 118
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 31 Post(s)
Liked: 15
Wanted to give a quick update. My Theos towers were delivered the other night. I've (for now) paired them with the Dynamo 500 that I had already hooked up. Two reasons: first, I can easily get $500 for the 700 if it's sealed in box and I don't really believe the 700 would be an upgrade over the 500.

Unfortunately, I discovered when I was rewiring for my Emotiva XPA-5 that the thing is an absolute BEAST in terms of dimensions and my current cabinet isn't really adequate. I can make it work if I replace my XLR cables with longer runs that let me put the AV7702 and XPA-5 on opposite sides; but, for now, I'm running everything with the cabinet open. With that said, the new cabinet became a much higher priority than just something I was hoping to add.

So, for now, I'm sticking with my Dynamo 500--I will use the credit from the 700 towards a new cabinet (leaning towards the Salamander Synergy series--though I'm not sure it's even big enough for the XPA-5). It's definitely showing its limits as the low end is FAR less defined than the Theos. Once I sell my Motion 40s and Motion 8, I will be looking at the Rhythmik and PSA options listed above. Thank you for your all of your help! I'll check back when I do make a purchase.
nalthien is online now  
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off