Originally Posted by bear123
I realize you don't understand why, but trust me, your advice was bad. Anyone on these forums with experience setting up subs will agree. You don't adjust the gain on the sub after running room correction. Changing the sub gain a totally random, unknown amount after room correction, from a position in which you cannot even hear how it sounds at the MLP, makes no sense. Again, there is no way to tell if you are adjusting the sub level 2 dB, 5 dB, or 15 dB when you do this. So there is no way to tell how far out of calibration you have just made the sub by changing the gain after room correction. This is the WRONG way to do it. If the sub needs to be at 9:00 in order to function properly, so be it. Set it to 9:00 and run room correction. You DO want the sub trim in the AVR to be negative after room correction. The reason for this is two fold. First, room correction almost always sets the subwoofer level lower than most people prefer. By getting the sub trim in the -6 to -9 region after Audyssey, you can then turn the sub up an exact, known amount from the MLP until it sounds good. This will typically be 3-6 dB for most users. Instead of using, in your words, the sub gain knob which is "too sensitive to fine tune your volume". The second reason for this method is that it allows you to run the sub hot, to taste, without exceeding 0 in your AVR's subwoofer trim, which has been known to clip the signal. Accuracy is better than a blind guess. You mention to not so easily dismiss advice, especially when it is sound. This is good advice that new members with limited experience should keep in mind.
Oh here we go, your opinion is different than mine, so now all of AVS does it your way and the "people like me" do it my way. Implying I have no experience or know nothing and do not even understand why I do not know it. Gee, that's original...
Now that you put me to school, my turn. This is not my first rodeo, subwoofer, or experience with Audyssey. I am in my 30's and had the first receiver that had room correction (Pioneer) and one of the first Audyssey equipped AVR (Onkyo). I have owned a lot of different receivers, and I have tried everything to wring every last bit of quality out of everything I have owned. I have experience with Dirac, Arc, Audyssey, YPAO, MCACC, and Sony's auto correct (cannot think of the name offhand but it does not do much anyhow.)
I have done your way, I have done what Audyssey and Denon tell me to do (put the subwoofer at 75 db), in fact my Denon tells you to do that in the setup. I have set my subwoofer hot and guess how it sounded after Audyssey ran? Like utter crap...my speakers were wrong, there was a lack of dynamics, and the subwoofer sounded either too low or boomy. You cannot have the sub at 9 o'clock and then do auto calibration in my room, it is much too loud and the end result is bad.
Now here is what is the truth...there is NOTHING random about my way, that is just your way of trying to seem more knowledgeable. I mentioned using a SPL meter...you must have missed it! So your points of me being "random" or "not knowing how many decibels I am raising the gain" are convenience statements. There are numerous ways to do this, my method is using a SPL and my ears....seems to work every single time with great results. The SPL even tells me how much I am changing things, so simply writing down the results allows me to bring it back to how it was.
Bring subwoofer gain to where Audyssey reads 72 db (This will make subwoofer level after correction at a 0 value, which is ideal!). Ask people where your sub level should be ideally after calibration....ask Audyssey itself. Almost everyone knows after calibration of any system, ideally your sub would be at 0 level in your receiver....this has lots of benefits including EQing your speakers properly
After room correction:
Bring subwoofer gain to 9 o'clock. Use SPL (oops no randomness) and bring subwoofer down to preference (75db for me), 78 if you like hot and 72 if you just want bass emphasis (randomness is lacking). I am usually at -7 at 9 o'clock...allows me to do exactly what you are saying is the reason....I can turn it up or down as needs be and go right back to 0 and then turn gain down until my SPL reads the same as it did after finishing Audyssey. Considering my Sub was at 71 db after Audyssey, I could also bring my sub (now set at 9 o 'clock) right down to 71 if I chose. Now my sub is at exactly the same level but I increased headroom on my HSU subwoofer, so it would be more dynamic.
Does Audyssey know your preference or is it god? No it is designed to bring your system to a flat response and correct for room errors...this is why there are tons of people who hate it and tweak it after. I do not like the end result if I keep my HSU at 8 o'clock (where it ends up) and my sub sounded no where near as good. I have NEVER liked the way Audyssey has handled subwoofers and I am not the only one.
I will give you a challenge. I will setup Audyssey...first your way and then do it my way, then I will bring 5 people and see which sound they prefer...your way or mine. If everyone on AVS does it your way, like you claim, then I am proud to know I found a better way than a whole community. I will even record it with a high quality mic and see what people on here think. I bet you my way sounds a hell of a lot better...I know because I tried it!
Lastly, do you have a HSU VTF-3 Mk 5 subwoofer? Do you have a Denon X4100 it is hooked into? If I own it, found it works perfect for me and produced a better result than other ways (I tried everything I read of or was suggested), do you not think I know more than someone like yourself who claims to know so much? If it worked for me, has all the benefits you listed, and sounds great after...is that not the goal? Or is there something magical that your way does to make things better than great? My way is repeatable, tweakable, and able to be measured.