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post #1 of 13 Old 05-26-2015, 06:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Do I have a problem with Audyssey?

I did some sweeps last night using my UMM-6 mic! But there is something strange that I cant figure out. I had to lower the levels at the sub way down running REW with Audyssey off from there preset which is normally pretty close. Once I turned Audyssey EQ on, I had to raise the level back up pretty much where the subs was set at from Nathan (Funk Audio). My sub levels (or gain) are digital controlled by ALLDSP. Went from -10 to -3 (stock preset).

So my question is, does Audyssey XT32 suck up that much SPL with its EQ on? Or is there is something wrong with Audyssey software in my AVR? Or maybe could I have a bad mic that came with it. I wish there was a way to use my UMM-6 mic for running audyssey. I noticed on Audyssey Pro it uses a mic that looks like my UMM-6.

Another weird thing is I can not get Audyssey XT32 to set my sub trims less than -8.0. If I turn my sub level down any more, then it says my level is too low. I was trying to get it at -6.0 or less. Its very strange that I set it up at the bottom of the limit which I think was about 73 dB is as far as it will let you go, and after a room calibration, it wants to cut another 8 dB off because it thinks they are too high. Actually, it shows all my speakers too high. They are all around -6 to -8. If I set my sub levels in Audyssey at the nominal 75 dB, then it will set the sub levels at around -11 or -11.5dB. So should I contact Marantz and ask them about that. Or am I doing this wrong? I should be able to get the trim levels closer than that right?

Another thing is running REW max sweeps, I get a out of headroom at around 105 dB (10ft from the subs) and the MV at 0. Is this because I am at 0 on the MV?


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post #2 of 13 Old 05-26-2015, 07:19 AM
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regarding your last question, try lower your mic volume to 50 in window. When your MV is at 0, you should get 115db. I would contact Marantz for your problem. It's ok to have sub trims at -11 or -11.5 though.
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post #3 of 13 Old 05-26-2015, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red99 View Post
I did some sweeps last night using my UMM-6 mic! But there is something strange that I cant figure out. I had to lower the levels at the sub way down running REW with Audyssey off from there preset which is normally pretty close. Once I turned Audyssey EQ on, I had to raise the level back up pretty much where the subs was set at from Nathan (Funk Audio). My sub levels (or gain) are digital controlled by ALLDSP. Went from -10 to -3 (stock preset).
You don't say why you had to lower the levels...were you getting a clipping or out of headroom warning in REW??

Are you running a sensitivity factor in your mic calibration file for the UMM-6? I ask because the UMM-6 typically does not come with a sens factor. If you do not have a sens factor line in your cal file, you need to manually calibrate the SPL each and every time you run REW with an external SPL meter (as outlined in the guide linked in my sig).



Quote:
So my question is, does Audyssey XT32 suck up that much SPL with its EQ on? Or is there is something wrong with Audyssey software in my AVR? Or maybe could I have a bad mic that came with it. I wish there was a way to use my UMM-6 mic for running audyssey. I noticed on Audyssey Pro it uses a mic that looks like my UMM-6.
Hard to say if there is something wrong with your Audyssey mic, but it is unusual. No, you can not use your UMM-6 to run Audyssey...it is not calibrated for that.



Quote:
Another weird thing is I can not get Audyssey XT32 to set my sub trims less than -8.0. If I turn my sub level down any more, then it says my level is too low. I was trying to get it at -6.0 or less.
If your sub is currently set to -8.0 and you want it at -6.0 you need to turn the gain on your sub up not down.



Quote:
Actually, it shows all my speakers too high. They are all around -6 to -8. If I set my sub levels in Audyssey at the nominal 75 dB, then it will set the sub levels at around -11 or -11.5dB. So should I contact Marantz and ask them about that. Or am I doing this wrong? I should be able to get the trim levels closer than that right?
Those trim levels are perfectly fine, they are "in-range" so all is well. You might want to bring the sub gain down a bit to get closer to -8 to -6 on the sub trim, but -11 or -11.5 is acceptable...-12 is not acceptable though.

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post #4 of 13 Old 05-26-2015, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Alan P View Post
You don't say why you had to lower the levels...were you getting a clipping or out of headroom warning in REW??

Are you running a sensitivity factor in your mic calibration file for the UMM-6? I ask because the UMM-6 typically does not come with a sens factor. If you do not have a sens factor line in your cal file, you need to manually calibrate the SPL each and every time you run REW with an external SPL meter (as outlined in the guide linked in my sig).

Hard to say if there is something wrong with your Audyssey mic, but it is unusual. No, you can not use your UMM-6 to run Audyssey...it is not calibrated for that.

If your sub is currently set to -8.0 and you want it at -6.0 you need to turn the gain on your sub up not down.

Those trim levels are perfectly fine, they are "in-range" so all is well. You might want to bring the sub gain down a bit to get closer to -8 to -6 on the sub trim, but -11 or -11.5 is acceptable...-12 is not acceptable though.
I originally lowered the sub level at the sub because Audyssey said it was too high.
No Im not running the sensitive factor because it doesn't look as stable as the UMIK-1. I have the UMM-6. So I recalibrate every time I open and start REW.

Yes I know I cant run the UMM-6 to calibrate REW. I meant too bad I cant. Because the PRO upgrade has a mic that is like the UMM-6. But it also has a phantom box and some software that comes with it. I would like to have it. But I think its like $550 with registration fee.

Yes, I did bring the sub trim down. But that was my point! -8 is the lowest I can get. Any lower and Audyssey tells me the sub level is too low. And that is what I dont understand. If I set it below 75 dB (somewhere around 73 dB), then why is it still at -8?

Are you sure I want to turn the gain up to bring the trim down? I think the higher I go with the level, the higher the negative number! I thought -8 meant Audessy is pulling 8 dB from the level? But I will try it again and go the other way. lol


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post #5 of 13 Old 05-26-2015, 04:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red99 View Post
Yes, I did bring the sub trim down. But that was my point! -8 is the lowest I can get. Any lower and Audyssey tells me the sub level is too low. And that is what I dont understand. If I set it below 75 dB (somewhere around 73 dB), then why is it still at -8?
So, you are saying that the same gain setting on your sub that is just above the setting that gets you a "sub level too low" warning also gets you a result of -8db on the sub trim? If so, that is quite strange....but still acceptable so probably nothing to worry about.

Quote:
Are you sure I want to turn the gain up to bring the trim down? I think the higher I go with the level, the higher the negative number! I thought -8 meant Audessy is pulling 8 dB from the level? But I will try it again and go the other way. lol
You are saying two different things here:

"Are you sure I want to turn the gain up to bring the trim down?" - YES!
"I think the higher I go with the level, the higher the negative number!" - TRUE!

Bringing the trim down would mean a higher negative number - i.e. -10db is lower than -5db.



EDIT: Ooops, this quote of mine is backwards, sorry.

Quote:
If your sub is currently set to -8.0 and you want it at -6.0 you need to turn the gain on your sub up not down.
Should say "down not up"....sorry to confuse!

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post #6 of 13 Old 05-26-2015, 04:33 PM - Thread Starter
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So, you are saying that the same gain setting on your sub that is just above the setting that gets you a "sub level too low" warning also gets you a result of -8db on the sub trim? If so, that is quite strange....but still acceptable so probably nothing to worry about.

Yes, that is correct. I thought it was kind of weird too. I checked to see if I had the lasted firmware and I do. I may need to venture over at the AV7702 thread and see if I can pick something up over there of anyone having any weird issues.


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post #7 of 13 Old Yesterday, 07:39 PM - Thread Starter
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I found this (Read below). If I am getting -11 on the trim at 75 dB, and - 8 on the trim at around 72-73 dB (The lowest Audyssey will let me set my sub level), then something is wrong. From what I read below, I should be over 80 dB with a trim with a -8 trim and probably close to 85 dB with a -11 trim. I am way off.


When Audyssey runs, the first step is to set the subs to 75 dB. It is perfectly OK to ignore that suggestion, and in fact it is recommended that you do so, if you wish to run your subs 'hot' for preference. Instead, set them at around 83 to 85 dB. This will yield a -10dB or so subwoofer trim setting after Audyssey. This provides 10 db of headroom before you even get to 0dB on the trim scale, and completely eliminates the possibility of overdriving the sub amp inputs. This method is recommended by Mark Seaton, founder of Seaton Sound, the makers of the legendary Seaton Submersive subwoofers.


SOUND: Marantz AV-7702 Pre/Pro, McIntosh MC1706 Amp,
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post #8 of 13 Old Yesterday, 08:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red99 View Post
I found this (Read below). If I am getting -11 on the trim at 75 dB, and - 8 on the trim at around 72-73 dB (The lowest Audyssey will let me set my sub level), then something is wrong. From what I read below, I should be over 80 dB with a trim with a -8 trim and probably close to 85 dB with a -11 trim. I am way off.


When Audyssey runs, the first step is to set the subs to 75 dB. It is perfectly OK to ignore that suggestion, and in fact it is recommended that you do so, if you wish to run your subs 'hot' for preference. Instead, set them at around 83 to 85 dB. This will yield a -10dB or so subwoofer trim setting after Audyssey. This provides 10 db of headroom before you even get to 0dB on the trim scale, and completely eliminates the possibility of overdriving the sub amp inputs. This method is recommended by Mark Seaton, founder of Seaton Sound, the makers of the legendary Seaton Submersive subwoofers.
This isn't unusual information. This is what is generally recommended over in the Audyssey thread also. I think you have some misconceptions on the calibration routine. The avr via Audyssey is taking your sub, set with a high level, down during the calibration routine. Once it's done it's 75dB, thus the negative trim when you set it hot before calibration. Now you can turn it up more easily like you said. Or at least it seems you don't quite have this down...but maybe I'm misunderstanding.

PS The speaker trim settings are more based on your speakers sensitivity as it relates among them so not sure why you feel it is wrong the way avr/Audyssey sets them....

Last edited by lovinthehd; Yesterday at 08:35 PM.
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post #9 of 13 Old Yesterday, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Maybe I am not understanding. But if you are in Audyssey and you set the sub level to 75dB with the Audyssey mic, then run Audyssey, why is it setting the trims to -11.
If I set the sub level to around 73 dB, then it sets the trim to -8. I know this is in range, but its driving me crazy why I cant get the trims closer to nominal than -8.

Reading the statement from above, it I set the sub level higher to a higher db or 83 to 85 dB, then my trims should be -10 dB. Which is about what I get at 75 dB.

I can not get the trims less that -8. And from what I read, its best to be between -3.5 to + 3.5. (Unless you run them hot, then a higher negative)


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post #10 of 13 Old Yesterday, 09:51 PM
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Quote:
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Maybe I am not understanding. But if you are in Audyssey and you set the sub level to 75dB with the Audyssey mic, then run Audyssey, why is it setting the trims to -11.
If I set the sub level to around 73 dB, then it sets the trim to -8. I know this is in range, but its driving me crazy why I cant get the trims closer to nominal than -8.

Reading the statement from above, it I set the sub level higher to a higher db or 83 to 85 dB, then my trims should be -10 dB. Which is about what I get at 75 dB.

I can not get the trims less that -8. And from what I read, its best to be between -3.5 to + 3.5. (Unless you run them hot, then a higher negative)
Okay, no, I didn't read carefully enough the first time....think your mention of where it set speakers got me going the wrong direction, plus what you mentioned what was set on the sub itself. Curious, did you try a microprocessor reset on your avr?
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post #11 of 13 Old Today, 05:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Okay, no, I didn't read carefully enough the first time....think your mention of where it set speakers got me going the wrong direction, plus what you mentioned what was set on the sub itself. Curious, did you try a microprocessor reset on your avr?

No I havent. I found a You Tube video of how to do a Denon. But I searched Marantz web site and found nothing. I havent looked in the manual yet. But on the Denon he just held the surround mode button and pressed the power button. I dont have a surround mode button on the AVR so I cant try that procedure. Do you know how to reset it on the AV-7702?

I did send a email to Marantz yesterday explaining the problem. I'm wondering if its the mic?


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Are you adjusting your sub amp or the AVR? If you want the AVR to attenuate the output signal to hit 75dB during calibration, you need to adjust the sub amp input sensitivity / gain knob. The AVR will compensate whatever setting you put into the sub amp, so crank up the sub amp gain and then the AVR will drop its output signal.


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post #13 of 13 Old Today, 08:37 AM
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Do a microprocessor reset, if that doesn't help I would suspect a bad Audyssey mic.

AVR: Denon 4520ci, FL/R: Klipschorn, CC: Klipsch RC-64ii, SUR: Polk LS/FX x4, FH: Klipsch RB-51ii x2, SUB: PSA T-18 x2, DISP: Mitsubishi WD-73740, BluRay: PS3 & BDP-S5100, Remote: URC MX-700
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