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post #1 of 78 Old 01-17-2016, 10:24 AM - Thread Starter
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GoldenEar SuperSub X at CES 2016

As a professed subwoofer addict, I find myself inexorably drawn to any box that promises to produce bountiful, beautiful bass. It is in that vein that I took a moment at CES 2016 to check out GoldenEar’s latest subwoofer, the $1250 SuperSub X. It is the second model in the SuperSub series—following the SuperSub XXL—but according to GoldenEar the X was the original focus of the SuperSub project.


GoldenEar's compact SuperSub X.

The SuperSub X features dual-opposed 8” drivers as well as dual-opposed 10” x 11” passive radiators—all packed into a compact cube measuring 12.5” (H) x 13.5” (W) x 12.5” (D)—that’s only 1.2 cubic feet. A 1500-watt amplifier provides the power to produce bass that drops deeper than you’d ever expect from such a small enclosure—GoldenEar claims a frequency response of 12Hz-200Hz.

The Supersub X is not merely compact, it is cleverly constructed so that force cancellation occurs between its dual-opposed woofers and passive radiators. No matter how loud the sub played, the enclosure exhibited no vibration whatsoever—as proof a nickel sat undisturbed on the sub's enclosure for the duration of the bass-heavy demo of various video clips. For what it's worth, a SuperCinema 3D Array XL handled the front channel duties and SuperSats served as surrounds during the demo—that means the SuperSub had to handle all of the bass reproduction for the system.

GoldenEar states that the amplifier used in the SuperSub X came from the company’s famous flagship, the Triton One speaker system. The company specifically touts the power of the DSP used in the system—it’s a 56-bit device with a 192 kHz sample rate that features extremely low latency, making the SuperSub X suitable for use in systems that don’t offer the option to measure and adjust delay, as is the case with many 2-channel audio-centric systems.

The performance of the SuperSub X did not necessarily come as a complete surprise to me, given my past experience with GoldenEar’s subwoofers. Indeed, I currently have the SuperSub XXL in my studio—for review—and there’s no question the dual dual-opposed design is effective.

Currently, GoldenEar sells the ForceField 5 sub for $1000 while the SuperSub XXL costs $2000. At $1250, the SuperSub X offers a significant upgrade in aesthetics over the ForceField 5, as well as delivering the performance advantage of force-cancelling drivers. It may well be the most appealing subwoofer in GoldenEar's lineup, in addition to being the most compact.
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post #2 of 78 Old 01-17-2016, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
As a professed subwoofer addict, I find myself inexorably drawn to any box that promises to produce bountiful, beautiful bass. It is in that vein that I took a moment at CES 2016 to check out GoldenEar’s latest subwoofer, the $1250 SuperSub X $1250.
The SuperSub X features dual-opposed 8” drivers as well as dual-opposed 10” x 11” passive radiators—all packed into a compact cube measuring 12.5” (H) x 13.5” (W) x 12.5” (D)—that’s only 1.2 cubic feet. A 1500-watt amplifier provides the power to produce bass that drops deeper than you’d ever expect from such a small enclosure—GoldenEar claims a frequency response of 12Hz-200Hz.
I would love to see a posted -3dB spec for this sub.

Actually, for all their speakers, but you know...

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post #3 of 78 Old 01-17-2016, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
I would love to see a posted -3dB spec for this sub.

Actually, for all their speakers, but you know...
I'll save you the effort. GoldenEar subwoofer specs are optimistic—even the most basic testing will reveal that. But, that doesn't detract from where they slot in on the price/performance spectrum. In rough measurements, I found the specs of the passive speakers (Triton Five and Triton Seven) were accurate. But when it comes to the subs, the -3dB point is well above the published spec—no question. I have not reviewed any of the powered Tritons, so I can't speak to that.

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post #4 of 78 Old 01-17-2016, 01:28 PM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I'll save you the effort. GoldenEar subwoofer specs are optimistic—even the most basic testing will reveal that. But, that doesn't detract from where they slot in on the price/performance spectrum. In rough measurements, I found the specs of the passive speakers (Triton Five and Triton Seven) were accurate. But when it comes to the subs, the -3dB point is well above the published spec—no question. I have not reviewed any of the powered Tritons, so I can't speak to that.
I believe that not posting a -3dB spec for the subs and powered Tritons detracts from the price/performance ratio and especially overall satisfaction level.

If I were to purchase this sub (for the price that it is) with the intent that I would have usable output down to 12hz and to find out my -3dB point is 24hz, I would be pretty frustrated and unsatisfied.
When I am paying the bottom end of four figures, I want to know what my limitations are and what I am going to get out of a sub (as well as the powered Tritons).
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post #5 of 78 Old 01-17-2016, 04:58 PM
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Geez, bgtighe23

This is audio and you want honest specs?

No worries, just got to data-bass.com and they have full testing and measurements of subwoofers there. A pair of eights and two passive radiators CAN go down to 12Hz--but it would be a very inefficient sub if you wanted it at -3dB.

It would be a good idea for Goldenear to throw what the tuning of those passive radiators equates to in Hz. Maybe throw a graph of what the thing does at specific SPLs--for "only" $1,250 I'd expect at least a maximum SPL graph, FR graph and tuning frequency.

Once subwoofers start costing "real" money, I just amble over to data-bass and they give all the charts, graphs, specs and information than you can stand! Enjoy!

http://www.data-bass.com/home
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post #6 of 78 Old 01-17-2016, 08:40 PM
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^^^

Words to live by.

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post #7 of 78 Old 01-18-2016, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgtighe23 View Post
I would love to see a posted -3dB spec for this sub.

Actually, for all their speakers, but you know...
I am with you on the love for a good subwoofer. I am still using Bob Carver's Sunfire Woofer which somehow puts out 2700 watts in a 12"X12"enclosure. I have not heard any subwoofer put out such solid bass; I am not into the booming bass stuff. I can feel it through my concrete floors and it's a wonder it does not push the nails out of the wall board.
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post #8 of 78 Old 01-18-2016, 07:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
Geez, bgtighe23

This is audio and you want honest specs?

No worries, just got to data-bass.com and they have full testing and measurements of subwoofers there. A pair of eights and two passive radiators CAN go down to 12Hz--but it would be a very inefficient sub if you wanted it at -3dB.

It would be a good idea for Goldenear to throw what the tuning of those passive radiators equates to in Hz. Maybe throw a graph of what the thing does at specific SPLs--for "only" $1,250 I'd expect at least a maximum SPL graph, FR graph and tuning frequency.

Once subwoofers start costing "real" money, I just amble over to data-bass and they give all the charts, graphs, specs and information than you can stand! Enjoy!

http://www.data-bass.com/home
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^^^

Words to live by.

Bribes - ehhemm Add supported, professional paycheck endorsements notwithstanding.

At some point you have to just learn to live with ads, they are everywhere. Furthermore, unless the USA turns into a truly utopian socialist nation overnight, they are not going anywhere.

Data-bass.com is a good resource, agreed. But, obviously you have to limit yourself to the subs the site has tested if you use it as the last word in making a purchasing decision.
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post #9 of 78 Old 01-18-2016, 01:51 PM
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No way it'll get 12hz. I don't think you even hear 12hz maybe it has transducers in there to make us think I can lol. Jk im sure it s great sub I would love to hear it one day.
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post #10 of 78 Old 01-18-2016, 03:14 PM - Thread Starter
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No way it'll get 12hz. I don't think you even hear 12hz maybe it has transducers in there to make us think I can lol. Jk im sure it s great sub I would love to hear it one day.
Well, FWIW I'd peg the SuperSub XXL as offering useful output down to 16 Hz, and it's spec'd at 10Hz. Based on that, the SuperSub X is probably useful down to 18 Hz, but that's a guess since I have no way to test it.
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post #11 of 78 Old 01-18-2016, 04:37 PM
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Maybe it's more like a -9 or -12dB at 12hz. I know my diy 12" with a 12"PR is -9dB at 15hz otherwise it would not get over 100dB no matter how much power I through at it!
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post #12 of 78 Old 01-18-2016, 04:43 PM
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While it may not hit 12hz, at a 12.5 inch cube it's not a bad option for those who can't fit washing machines in their living room.
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post #13 of 78 Old 01-18-2016, 04:45 PM
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Just doesn't seem like dual 8" active drivers with passive radiators have enough moving mass to reach the stated frequency response. And man, that thing is butt ugly.

Lumenlab "Community driven video lab".
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post #14 of 78 Old 01-20-2016, 10:51 AM
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Choosing a good sub is fairly simple. Only buy a known make. Avoid gimmicks. Buy the biggest driver, most powerful amplifier and most robust cabinet you can afford. When buying a new sub last year, I looked at all sorts of "gimmicky" subs with dual drivers and passive radiators. I was unimpressed with all of them. In the end I bought a plain vanilla Monitor Audio Gold GXW15, with a single 15" driver and 650W RMS DSP controlled amp. I got this for just over £1000. I am delighted with it and I think it is at least equal to the far more expensive ATC C4 I have in my UK house.

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post #15 of 78 Old 01-20-2016, 01:57 PM
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SVS PB 2000 FTW! I love SVS, great company, great product.
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post #16 of 78 Old 01-20-2016, 07:39 PM
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I'd take GE subs and speakers over most others. But you're all right - those specs are...optimistic. My GE Triton Twos can hit 26Hz in the room at 85-90dB, yet the specs show the bottom is 16Hz on this model. Regardless, they sound quite good and are hard to beat for the price.
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post #17 of 78 Old 01-21-2016, 08:40 AM
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The SuperSub XXL has supposedly been out since September. Has anyone listened to one or purchase one that can comment on how it may stack up against other subs?
Interesting that there is so little real user comments.
I'm looking at the HSU VTF-3 MK5 specifically but since the rest of my speakers are GE I thought I'd at least look into them. Don't have a local dealer that stocks them though.


Current system:
GE Triton 7's front
GE Super Center XL
GE SuperSat 50's rear
Polk PSW 350 (Old)
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post #18 of 78 Old 01-21-2016, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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The SuperSub XXL has supposedly been out since September. Has anyone listened to one or purchase one that can comment on how it may stack up against other subs?
Interesting that there is so little real user comments.
I'm looking at the HSU VTF-3 MK5 specifically but since the rest of my speakers are GE I thought I'd at least look into them. Don't have a local dealer that stocks them though.


Current system:
GE Triton 7's front
GE Super Center XL
GE SuperSat 50's rear
Polk PSW 350 (Old)
Denon 3312Ci AVR
I'm gonna compare it (the XXL) to a JL e112 and a Klipsch R-115SW when I review it. I wish I had a VTF-3 MK5 to compare it to as well. IMO, if you need to save space and still have powerful output at very low frequencies, it's worth considering. If you have room for larger subs, you can buy more output and extension for less.
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post #19 of 78 Old 01-21-2016, 09:12 AM
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I'm gonna compare it (the XXL) to a JL e112 and a Klipsch R-115SW when I review it. I wish I had a VTF-3 MK5 to compare it to as well. IMO, if you need to save space and still have powerful output at very low frequencies, it's worth considering. If you have room for larger subs, you can buy more output and extension for less.
Perfect post for this sub.

Looking forward to the comparison/review of this sub with the others - mainly for the pictures (take a bunch, please ) and the easy read, but you know

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Front Stage : Martin Logan Motion 60XTs/Elac Debut F5 Center
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post #20 of 78 Old 01-23-2016, 02:44 AM
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The only really relevant parameter of a sub is how much air it can move (Xmax*Sd) without distortion. 8" is just not much area. In my mind it's a toy unless you use it as a true near field sub. But then the form of structure isn't very suited for the application.

Markus

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post #21 of 78 Old 01-30-2016, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by nmharleyrider View Post
I am with you on the love for a good subwoofer. I am still using Bob Carver's Sunfire Woofer which somehow puts out 2700 watts in a 12"X12"enclosure. I have not heard any subwoofer put out such solid bass; I am not into the booming bass stuff. I can feel it through my concrete floors and it's a wonder it does not push the nails out of the wall board.
Dear nmharleyrider,

In October 96, I was literally on my way to buy one of the 12 inch Velodyne Servos. I was living/working in Silicon Valley, only a short distance from Velodyne's headquarters, when I stumbled across an article in the Sept/Oct "Sensible Sound" - "First Test of the Astonishing Subwoofer from Sunfire" by Joseph Cerniac. I've always been impressed by fellow physicist Bob Carver's sometimes weird but successful off-the-rails ideas. He and I both encountered serious problems with a Class G design. He successfully resurrected his and mine, an MRI Gradient Coil Driver, was killed. I was redeemed 2 years later when I assembled the world's first Class D Gradient Driver with servo modules designed by professional audiophile Dick Burwen. Most of the audio community is unaware that Dick has designed and built some amazing high power Class G servo systems. Dick and Bob Carver need to pool their talents. Maybe a jackhammer-powered Super-Duper-Sub-Subwoofer?

To get back on track, I did buy the Sunfire True Subwoofer, and once the warranty expired, I successfully squeezed more dBs for my 16 Hz organ music by adding several ounces of extra weight to the drone. The unit blew up a few years later and, true to its offer to fix it for $250, Sunfire replaced virtually every semiconductor in the output stage and never commented on the extra drone weights.
They also fixed a bug in the Auto-turn-on, which I eventually had to hard-wire permanently ON 4 years ago.

I recently purchased a 2016 SUV with a wimpy JBL subwoofer. Poops out below 35 Hz. I bought a shallow 36 x 18 x 5 inch, 1.1 cubic foot sealed enclosure that barely fits under the tonneau cover, behind the rear passenger seats. I've been unsuccessful so far, in the choice of a shallow 12 inch driver and 600W Class D Amplifier. After dozens of pages of Thiele-Small Equations and a week on the internet, I almost gave up and bought an Infinity Basslink 10 inch servo driver-and-drone. YouTube subwoofer videos are all about cave men overdriving and smoking their subwoofers. Can you imagine connecting a subwoofer to a 120VAC outlet and watching it burn as it jumps across the room?

But, lurking in the back of my feeble brain is the idea that I can still buy a used Sunfire and power it from one of my several 800W, 12 VDC-to-120 VAC Inverters, if I dare test my own with an Inverter. Another major issue is securing the Sunfire in a major collision, when it becomes a deadly missile. If the Sunfire works, it would be a great addition to Mobile True Bass Audiophile lore.

My Best,

Ron
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post #22 of 78 Old 01-30-2016, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by nmharleyrider View Post
I am with you on the love for a good subwoofer. I am still using Bob Carver's Sunfire Woofer which somehow puts out 2700 watts in a 12"X12"enclosure. I have not heard any subwoofer put out such solid bass; I am not into the booming bass stuff. I can feel it through my concrete floors and it's a wonder it does not push the nails out of the wall board.
Dear nmharleyrider,

In October 96, I was literally on my way to buy one of the 12 inch Velodyne Servos. I was living/working in Silicon Valley, only a short distance from Velodyne's headquarters, when I stumbled across an article in the Sept/Oct "Sensible Sound" - "First Test of the Astonishing Subwoofer from Sunfire" by Joseph Cerniac. I've always been impressed by fellow physicist Bob Carver's sometimes weird but successful off-the-rails ideas. He and I both encountered serious problems with a Class G design. He successfully resurrected his and mine, an MRI Gradient Coil Driver, was killed. I was redeemed 2 years later when I assembled the world's first Class D Gradient Driver with servo modules designed by professional audiophile Dick Burwen. Most of the audio community is unaware that Dick has designed and built some amazing high power Class G servo systems. Dick and Bob Carver need to pool their talents. Maybe a jackhammer-powered Super-Duper-Sub-Subwoofer?

To get back on track, I did buy the Sunfire True Subwoofer, and once the warranty expired, I successfully squeezed more dBs for my 16 Hz organ music by adding several ounces of extra weight to the drone. The unit blew up a few years later and, true to its offer to fix it for $250, Sunfire replaced virtually every semiconductor in the output stage and never commented on the extra drone weights.
They also fixed a bug in the Auto-turn-on, which I eventually had to hard-wire permanently ON 4 years ago.

I recently purchased a 2016 SUV with a wimpy JBL subwoofer. Poops out below 35 Hz. I bought a shallow 36 x 18 x 5 inch, 1.1 cubic foot sealed enclosure that barely fits under the tonneau cover, behind the rear passenger seats. I've been unsuccessful so far, in the choice of a shallow 12 inch driver and 600W Class D Amplifier. After dozens of pages of Thiele-Small Equations and a week on the internet, I almost gave up and bought an Infinity Basslink 10 inch servo driver-and-drone. YouTube subwoofer videos are all about cave men overdriving and smoking their subwoofers. Can you imagine connecting a subwoofer to a 120VAC outlet and watching it burn as it jumps across the room?

But, lurking in the back of my feeble brain is the idea that I can still buy a used Sunfire and power it from one of my several 800W, 12 VDC-to-120 VAC Inverters, if I dare test my own with an Inverter. Another major issue is securing the Sunfire in a major collision, when it becomes a deadly missile. If the Sunfire works, it would be a great addition to Mobile True Bass Audiophile lore.

My Best,

Ron

========================

My mistake. Dick's high power servo designs were Class D, not G.

Ron
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post #23 of 78 Old 01-30-2016, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
The only really relevant parameter of a sub is how much air it can move (Xmax*Sd) without distortion. 8" is just not much area. In my mind it's a toy unless you use it as a true near field sub. But then the form of structure isn't very suited for the application.
Two 8” drivers fwiw.

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post #24 of 78 Old 01-31-2016, 08:05 AM
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Two 8” drivers fwiw.
Not much. Sd for an 8" is about 220cm² a single 12" is already more than twice the Sd. Now multiply with Xmax.

It's so easy and cheap to DIY subs but I guess some audiophools just value brand name and shiny boxes more. http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=systems&type=0&mfr=8

Markus

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post #25 of 78 Old 01-31-2016, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Not much. Sd for an 8" is about 220cm² a single 12" is already more than twice the Sd. Now multiply with Xmax.

It's so easy and cheap to DIY subs but I guess some audiophools just value brand name and shiny boxes more. http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=systems&type=0&mfr=8
I certainly won't deny what's possible with DIY having dablled in it myself, and based on what I've heard other AVS members achieve. But, I can't say I ever saw the DIY crowd build something as compact as the SuperSub X that performed like that. If you just count dollars and decibels, you'd never buy a sub that uses 8" drivers, I get that.

Anyhow, I think there's more to it than someone just being a fool. I mean, in the grand scheme of things a nice dinner with a couple bottles of good wine can cost $300+ and that's literally gone the next day. So, I don't consider someone a fool for buying a ready-made subwoofer and paying extra for it, or for seeking a small subwoofer. It's just a matter of priorities.

Having said that, of course I have requested an Ultimax 18" 1200W kit from Dayton... I love ultra-deep bass and get where you are coming from. I'm just not sure it's appropriate to say that anyone interested in a (luxury) compact subwoofer is an "audiophool." It could just be they have limited space and noticed that the SuperSub X sounds really good considering its size.

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post #26 of 78 Old 01-31-2016, 08:32 AM
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I can't say I ever saw the DIY crowd build something as compact as the SuperSub X that performed like that.
So where is the performance data that would support such an assessment?

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post #27 of 78 Old 01-31-2016, 08:41 AM
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I certainly won't deny what's possible with DIY having dablled in it myself, and based on what I've heard other AVS members achieve. But, I can't say I ever saw the DIY crowd build something as compact as the SuperSub X that performed like that. If you just count dollars and decibels, you'd never buy a sub that uses 8" drivers, I get that.

Anyhow, I think there's more to it than someone just being a fool. I mean, in the grand scheme of things a nice dinner with a couple bottles of good wine can cost $300+ and that's literally gone the next day. So, I don't consider someone a fool for buying a ready-made subwoofer and paying extra for it, or for seeking a small subwoofer. It's just a matter of priorities.

Having said that, of course I have requested an Ultimax 18" 1200W kit from Dayton... I love ultra-deep bass and get where you are coming from. I'm just not sure it's appropriate to say that anyone interested in a (luxury) compact subwoofer is an "audiophool." It could just be they have limited space and noticed that the SuperSub X sounds really good considering its size.
For $300, I better be getting more than just dinner and wine

This sub seems to be taking the most performance in the smallest packing approach, so in that sense, I see nothing wrong with this sub.

I think you will be rather amazed if you ever get that UM-18 kit fired up. That's some serious performance given it's completed price. Since most external power amps such as iNukes/Crowns supply 2 channels of power (as apposed to dual subs having dual plate amps), it makes adding a 2nd even more cost effective - not to mention the wow factor of 18 in. drivers.

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post #28 of 78 Old 01-31-2016, 08:44 AM - Thread Starter
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So where is the performance data that would support such an assessment?
I'm only talking about my own personal experience, I'm not saying it never happened. In fact, I have never heard seen or heard a compact DIY sub at all. Ever. I'm sure they exist, and if you have a link or two to such projects I'd love to check 'em out.

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post #29 of 78 Old 01-31-2016, 08:46 AM
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So where is the performance data that would support such an assessment?
You missed the point.
You wouldn't need performance data.

Mark said, "I can't say I ever saw the DIY crowd build something as compact as the SuperSub X that performed like that."

And even at that, he said he's never seen it. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist. IIRC, there is a 8" sub with 12" PR that has an F3 of 20hz using an Infinity or JBL car audio designed sub. However, it's probably twice the size of this GE SuperSub (height).

EDIT: Here's the link, I found it - http://techtalk.parts-express.com/sh...he-way-to-20Hz
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_____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____ _____
Receiver : Denon x5200
Front Stage : Martin Logan Motion 60XTs/Elac Debut F5 Center
Surround Speakers : HTD Level 3 Towers/RBH R5Bi Front and Rear Heights
Subwooferage : Dual UM-18s/6 SI HT18s
Born in 1995 and still continuing my HT journey

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post #30 of 78 Old 01-31-2016, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I'm only talking about my own personal experience, I'm not saying it never happened. In fact, I have never heard seen or heard a compact DIY sub at all. Ever. I'm sure they exist, and if you have a link or two to such projects I'd love to check 'em out.
I do use a very compact sub but it's a "ripol" sub and it sits right behind my back very close to the ears.

Markus

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