ELAC Debut S12EQ Subwoofer Review - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 52Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 84 Old 03-05-2016, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
Assoc. Editor @ AVS Forum
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 10,964
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5060 Post(s)
Liked: 8544
ELAC Debut S12EQ Subwoofer Review

There are multiple benefits to adding one or more subwoofers to a stereo, surround system, or even a soundbar. With a good sub, you can improve the low-frequency extension of most systems and relieve amplifiers of the burden of reproducing those frequencies. Typically, it's a win-win for your speakers and amps. However, proper integration is the key to getting the most out of any sub, and that can prove tricky if you don't have EQ at your disposal.


The ELAC Debut S12EQ Sub.

Adding a subwoofer to an audio system is a challenge because rooms have a lot of influence on sound, especially in the bass region. Fortunately, proper placement and a bit of EQ can tame an unruly response curve.

ELAC's Debut S12EQ ($700) is a 12" sub that includes a function called Auto-EQ, which works in conjunction with an Android or iOS device to correct for the usual room-related peaks and nulls. With minimal effort, it can provide a flat in-room response for the listener.

The S12EQ is part of ELAC's Debut line of speakers—designed by Andrew Jones—that aims to offer high performance at affordable prices. The company sent me the S12EQ along with a pair of its Debut B6 bookshelf speakers. I had requested the sub, mainly because I feared the bookshelf speakers would lack impactful bass. It turned out I was wrong; the B6s are surprisingly potent down low. Therefore, I decided to split that system into two reviews, the one you are reading here and my recent review of the Debut B6s.

Features

The S12EQ is a powerful, versatile 12" sub. The enclosure is a perfect 17" cube that weighs 49 pounds. A 500-watt (RMS) amplifier provides ample power to the front-firing active driver, while a down-firing 12" passive radiator augments low-frequency output. ELAC specifies the frequency response of the sub from 28 to 150 Hz.

The app-based DSP found in the S12EQ sets it apart from other similarly priced subwoofers I've seen and heard. Gone are all external controls you typically find—there are no knobs or switches in sight. On the back of the sub, there's nothing but an RCA input and a reset switch.

ELAC's Sub Control app connects to the S12EQ via Bluetooth, so you don't need a Wi-Fi network to get it up and running. However, you do need an iOS or Android device (phone or tablet) to set it up. I successfully connected to the sub using an iPhone, an Android phone, and an Android tablet.

An outstanding feature of the aptly named S12EQ is its Auto-EQ function. It's a quick and easy 2-step calibration that smooths out a lumpy bass-response curve. While most AVRs and pre/pros offer EQ as part of a room-correction system, many devices with subwoofer outputs—such as soundbars, self-powered speakers, and 2-channel preamps—do not.

In addition to Auto-EQ, the S12EQ provides a flexible 1-band parametric EQ that lets you dial in the exact bass response you want. Also, the app provides a volume control, phase control, delay control, and a variable lowpass filter—all very useful tools for subwoofer integration.

The S12EQ offers several listening modes: Normal, Music, Cinema, and Night. Normal mode aims to deliver the sub's "designed response" to the listener—in other words, it aims for flat. Music mode adds a small boost to the bass at just under 40 Hz, emulating the effect of room gain for people who want some extra oomph down low. Movie mode adds a boost around 55 Hz to enhance the visceral thumps found in so many soundtracks. Finally, Night mode automatically turns down the sub's volume and adds limiting, so as not to disturb sleeping family members or the neighbors.

Setup

Setting up the S12EQ was a cinch. I placed the sub against the side wall, ran Auto-EQ, and was good to go on my first try. Seriously. The software was incredibly effective, yielding a smooth response curve with minimal effort.

Auto-EQ is a two-step process. First, you hold your phone or tablet within a foot of the sub’s front-facing driver while it plays test tones. The app takes nearfield measurements at various bass frequencies, which takes less than a minute.

The second step involves taking another quick set of readings from the listening position. As it runs the routine, the app creates an EQ curve to compensate for any dips and peaks it finds. You get to see exactly what the app is doing; it displays both a graph and numerical measurements as it goes about its business.


Auto-EQ starts by generating a profile, then it creates a correction curve for the listening position.

I used Room EQ Wizard (REW) and a UMIK-1 USB mic to validate Auto-EQ's settings, and soon I grew to trust it. I experimented with placing the sub in various locations, and I used three different devices to perform the Auto-EQ calibrations. The result was a very consistent calibration, regardless of which device I used for the task or where I put the sub.

For surround content including games and movies, I used my Pioneer Elite SC-85 AVR to perform the processing and provide power to the main speakers. The AVR liked the S12EQ's Auto-EQ settings so much that when I ran the AVR's MCACC room correction, it saw no need to add any EQ of its own. For speakers, I used a KEF R-series Atmos surround system that you can read about here.

Thanks to its Auto-EQ capability, the S12EQ also proved to be a great match for soundbars and powered-speaker systems that offer a subwoofer output but lack room correction capability. In fact, I used the sub in my review of the MartinLogan Motion Vision X soundbar. Setup consisted of running the calibration routine, telling the soundbar that a sub was connected, and adjusting the output level to taste.

Performance

Wow! That's the word that best describes the S12EQ. It handily surpassed my optimistic expectations when it came to the quality and quantity of bass it produced.

The S12EQ excels at rendering textured, nuanced bass. However, in terms of raw output and low-frequency extension, it does not dig as deep as three similarly priced subs I have reviewed: The SVS PB-2000, SVS PC-2000, and Klipsch R-115SW. On the other hand, it offers DSP while the others do not, which is a huge advantage. As far as smaller subs go, the S12EQ is quite similar (performance-wise) to GoldenEar's ForceField 5—another 12-incher with a down-firing passive radiator.

After I Auto-EQ'd the S12EQ, its fidelity was commendable, producing a smooth measured frequency response at the listening position. When used in a system without subwoofer EQ or bass management, it sounded better than the other subs I just mentioned.

I spent the bulk of this review using the S12EQ in conjunction with the SC-85 AVR. It's the same 2.1 system featured in the review of the ELAC Debut B6 bookshelf speakers, and it exceeded my expectations for price versus performance.

In order to test the S12EQ's effectiveness when used in a surround system, I fed it a steady diet of action films and video games. In that setup, the SC-85 took care of processing and main-speaker amplification while a KEF R-Series Atmos system turned that electricity into sound.

During gameplay, I particularly appreciated how the sub added a physical element to the experience; I could feel every explosion and impact in Grand Theft Auto 5 and Need for Speed 2015. As for movies, I checked out scenes from a number of recent releases including Everest, Jurassic World, Straight Outta Compton, Ant-Man, and The Martian—all of those movies benefitted from the added impact afforded by the sub. I'm sure there are a few isolated instances in the movies where the bass dipped below what the S12EQ could deftly handle, but I'm also sure those instances would be very rare.

During my evaluation, I checked out the Cinema mode and found it added even more chest-thumping impact to the movie-watching experience, but I also felt it was unnecessary so I stuck with the Normal setting. The same held true for the Music mode; it added extra kick to the low end, but ultimately I felt the sub didn't need the extra boost.

The S12EQ turned out to be a great option for use with high-performance soundbars that don't come with their own subwoofer but offer the option to add one. I used it in my recent review of MartinLogan's Motion Vision X, and with a simple Auto-EQ calibration, it integrated seamlessly—a trick none of the half-dozen other subs I had available could pull off.

I took some basic measurements with REW to see how they correlated to my subjective listening experience. A close-mic'd sine-wave sweep (with EQ disabled) yielded a flat response, as one would hope. Another measurement taken at the listening position (again, with EQ disabled) revealed a sizable null centered around 55 Hz, and the output was 12 dB higher at 22 Hz than at 80 Hz.

After enabling Auto-EQ, a close-mic'd measurement showed a response curve that included a peak at 55Hz, indicating that it was attempting to compensate for the null. Another measurement from the listening position (with Auto-EQ enabled) showed a much flatter in-room response. While the null was still there (you can’t EQ your way out of one), it covered a much narrower range of frequencies that it did before calibration.

The REW readings matched up well with what the app reported it did: boost the frequencies surrounding the null (40-60 Hz) by 6 dB and attenuate frequencies below that by 6 dB.


This graph shows the EQ curve created by the ELAC app.

While I was measuring frequency response, I peeked at distortion levels (close-mic measurement, 100 dB, no EQ) and found that at 24 Hz, THD was already under 5% and quickly dropped to less than 1% by the time the frequency reached 35 Hz. In practical terms, that means distortion stayed under audible thresholds.

Conclusion

In the process of writing this review, I occasionally felt like I was not adequately conveying exactly how awesome the S12EQ is. It takes a laborious task—obtaining flat bass response at the listening position—and makes it as easy as pushing a few buttons on a smartphone or tablet. In the world of subwoofers, that's a big deal.

The ELAC S12EQ's performance is so good, it would be a good value l even if it were a "dumb" subwoofer that did not offer EQ. Add the value offered by its app-controlled DSP functionality, and quite frankly I can't think of another sub-$1000 subwoofer that offers as great an ownership experience right out of the box. There are other subs that offer some form of automated calibration, but they typically cost a lot more and require the use of a dedicated, corded microphone.

ELAC's Debut S12EQ is an exciting new option in the world of subwoofers for anyone seeking a full-featured bass-making machine that doesn't break the bank. While it's not going to thrill folks seeking infrasonic capabilities, its bass reproduction within the audible spectrum is both powerful and polished.

ASSOCIATED GEAR

Sources

Sony PlayStation 4
Windows 10 laptop
Chromecast Audio

Amps and Processors

Pioneer Elite SC-85 AVR

Speakers

ELAC Debut B6 bookshelf speakers
KEF R500 towers
KEF R100 bookshelf speakers
KEF R200c center
KEF R50 Atmos modules
SVS Prime towers
Paradigm Prestige 75F towers
MartinLogan Motion Vision X soundbar

Android and iOS Devices

Samsung Galaxy Note 5
Samsung Galaxy Tab Pro
iPhone 6S

Display

Samsung PN64F8500 plasma TV

Mark Henninger

Last edited by imagic; 03-05-2016 at 07:18 PM.
imagic is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 84 Old 03-05-2016, 05:50 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 1,592
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 729 Post(s)
Liked: 833
Bottom firing passive radiator,

Does it have some sort of mechanical lock to prevent PR sag when powered down? Granted, it is much cheaper than using two PRs on each side and might look better but there would be concerns long term.

One could always lay it on it's side to prevent suspension issues but do the legs come off so that is an option?
18Hurts is offline  
post #3 of 84 Old 03-05-2016, 06:13 PM
Advanced Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 598
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 354 Post(s)
Liked: 106
A single connection option???? or I need my checked?

Update: forgot the "eyes"

Last edited by tinhvo; 03-06-2016 at 12:12 PM.
tinhvo is offline  
 
post #4 of 84 Old 03-05-2016, 06:40 PM
Senior Member
 
Tony_Montana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 437
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Nice review!!!

You wrote than it does not get it like other subs that you have reviewed but how it compares with SVS SB-2000?

Last edited by Tony_Montana; 03-05-2016 at 06:45 PM.
Tony_Montana is offline  
post #5 of 84 Old 03-05-2016, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
Assoc. Editor @ AVS Forum
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 10,964
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5060 Post(s)
Liked: 8544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony_Montana View Post
Nice review!!!

You wrote than it does not get it like other subs that you have reviewed but how it compares with SVS SB-2000?
I'd take it over that one.
Tony_Montana likes this.

Mark Henninger
imagic is offline  
post #6 of 84 Old 03-05-2016, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
Assoc. Editor @ AVS Forum
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 10,964
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5060 Post(s)
Liked: 8544
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
Bottom firing passive radiator,

Does it have some sort of mechanical lock to prevent PR sag when powered down? Granted, it is much cheaper than using two PRs on each side and might look better but there would be concerns long term.

One could always lay it on it's side to prevent suspension issues but do the legs come off so that is an option?
I asked what to do about it, and Andrew said "It's easy.... Once in a while turn the sub upside down"

Mark Henninger
imagic is offline  
post #7 of 84 Old 03-05-2016, 06:54 PM - Thread Starter
Assoc. Editor @ AVS Forum
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 10,964
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5060 Post(s)
Liked: 8544
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinhvo View Post
A single connection option???? or I need my checked?
Yup. That's it.

Mark Henninger
imagic is offline  
post #8 of 84 Old 03-05-2016, 06:57 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Scotth3886's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: New Albany, OH and Soviet Monica, CA
Posts: 2,460
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1178 Post(s)
Liked: 616
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I asked what to do about it, and Andrew said "It's easy.... Once in a while turn the sub upside down"

I wish that'd work for my face.

I didn't know smartphone mics would go down that low? This is temptingly easy.
AndrewJ, chirpie and D Bone like this.
Scotth3886 is offline  
post #9 of 84 Old 03-05-2016, 07:09 PM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Liked: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony_Montana View Post
Nice review!!!

You wrote than it does not get it like other subs that you have reviewed but how it compares with SVS SB-2000?
Tony......did you get the answer. I have been waiting for this for a while before deciding which one is better....the Elac EQ12 or SVS SB-2000 or the SVS PB-2000. Taking into account all the net reviews, I feel the SVS PB-2000 has the slight edge over the EQ12 and both are priced equal.
amedius is offline  
post #10 of 84 Old 03-05-2016, 07:54 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
audiofan1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 5,618
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1661 Post(s)
Liked: 1688
Nice
audiofan1 is offline  
post #11 of 84 Old 03-05-2016, 09:57 PM
Senior Member
 
Tony_Montana's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 437
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by amedius View Post
Tony......did you get the answer. I have been waiting for this for a while before deciding which one is better....the Elac EQ12 or SVS SB-2000 or the SVS PB-2000. Taking into account all the net reviews, I feel the SVS PB-2000 has the slight edge over the EQ12 and both are priced equal.
Mark has already answered here
Tony_Montana is offline  
post #12 of 84 Old 03-05-2016, 09:58 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 1,592
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 729 Post(s)
Liked: 833
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I asked what to do about it, and Andrew said "It's easy.... Once in a while turn the sub upside down"
My PR sub I remove the thing every two years and rotate it 180 degrees to keep the suspension from sagging at an angle--but it is vertical so that helps. The Elac does not go deep so it would probably not have a heavily weighted PR to prevent too much sag I guess.

Any way you could measure the sag upside down and right side up? It would be interesting to see what it actually does with that test.
18Hurts is offline  
post #13 of 84 Old 03-05-2016, 10:10 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
helvetica bold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,035
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 401 Post(s)
Liked: 250
Nice review! I've been thinking about upgrading my energy take classic to the Elac line. I'm especially interested in an Atmos setup. How do games like NFS 2015 sound unmixed to atmos? I can only imagine that Sub powering Battlefield 4.
I've been holding off since there are no native Atmos video games but does the DSU do a good job upmxing?
helvetica bold is online now  
post #14 of 84 Old 03-06-2016, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
Assoc. Editor @ AVS Forum
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 10,964
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5060 Post(s)
Liked: 8544
Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Nice review! I've been thinking about upgrading my energy take classic to the Elac line. I'm especially interested in an Atmos setup. How do games like NFS 2015 sound unmixed to atmos? I can only imagine that Sub powering Battlefield 4.
I've been holding off since there are no native Atmos video games but does the DSU do a good job upmxing?
I assume you mean upmixed. Sounds great, and soon I plan to check out Star Wars: Battlefront on PC with native Atmos.

Mark Henninger
imagic is offline  
post #15 of 84 Old 03-06-2016, 06:26 AM
Advanced Member
 
dschulz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 641
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 555 Post(s)
Liked: 362
Great review, thanks.

Does ELAC provide any out-of-the-box functionality for EQing dual subs?
dschulz is offline  
post #16 of 84 Old 03-06-2016, 06:32 AM - Thread Starter
Assoc. Editor @ AVS Forum
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 10,964
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5060 Post(s)
Liked: 8544
Quote:
Originally Posted by dschulz View Post
Great review, thanks.

Does ELAC provide any out-of-the-box functionality for EQing dual subs?
Not explicitly, afaik. I will ask Andrew Jones what needs to be considered when EQing dual subs.
imagic is offline  
post #17 of 84 Old 03-06-2016, 08:56 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
helvetica bold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,035
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 401 Post(s)
Liked: 250
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I assume you mean upmixed. Sounds great, and soon I plan to check out Star Wars: Battlefront on PC with native Atmos.

Haha, yes I mean upmixed!
So you notice a difference in game audio up mixed?

I was going to say in Battlefront, throw some thermal imploders (aka dub step grenade). That should really show off the ELAC sub!




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
helvetica bold is online now  
post #18 of 84 Old 03-06-2016, 12:19 PM
Member
 
ControlZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Upstate NY
Posts: 51
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 17 Post(s)
Liked: 48
Are there any AVRs that can do this with EQ? It seems like if you can put this kind of tech in a sub... Amazing possibilities
ControlZ is offline  
post #19 of 84 Old 03-06-2016, 01:53 PM
Member
 
AR223's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: UpTown by the coast
Posts: 93
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 47 Post(s)
Liked: 36
Thanks for the review.

Have you pulled out the driver yet?

If so, I like to see the guts of this cabinet & sub

Thanks
AR223 is offline  
post #20 of 84 Old 03-06-2016, 02:30 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
BGLeduc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Albuquerque
Posts: 4,305
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1513 Post(s)
Liked: 1364
Quote:
Originally Posted by ControlZ View Post
Are there any AVRs that can do this with EQ? It seems like if you can put this kind of tech in a sub... Amazing possibilities
The new ELAC integrated amp announced at CES has the capability, but it is stereo, not MC.

#JB17
BGLeduc is online now  
post #21 of 84 Old 03-07-2016, 06:04 AM
Advanced Member
 
slosvt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Va Beach, VA
Posts: 572
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 59 Post(s)
Liked: 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I'd take it over that one.

This review comes out just when I was ready to pull the trigger on dual SB-2000's. Now what to do???

I easily see where a single S12EQ is a smarter choice than a single SB-2000. Do you feel the same in a dual sub scenario?

How would you rank either dual S12EQ's or SB-2000's vs a single JL Audio E112?

Thanks,
slosvt is offline  
post #22 of 84 Old 03-07-2016, 06:17 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
pottscb's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,469
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 140 Post(s)
Liked: 75
Quote:
Originally Posted by slosvt View Post
This review comes out just when I was ready to pull the trigger on dual SB-2000's. Now what to do???

I easily see where a single S12EQ is a smarter choice than a single SB-2000. Do you feel the same in a dual sub scenario?

How would you rank either dual S12EQ's or SB-2000's vs a single JL Audio E112?

Thanks,
Not sure the E112 belongs in this price category...but I had one that I A-B'd against my Velodyne Minivee 10" and it had quite a bit more output, and a little lower...but mostly more output. Its a serious sub but priced about twice as much as this one.
pottscb is offline  
post #23 of 84 Old 03-07-2016, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
Assoc. Editor @ AVS Forum
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 10,964
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5060 Post(s)
Liked: 8544
Quote:
Originally Posted by slosvt View Post
This review comes out just when I was ready to pull the trigger on dual SB-2000's. Now what to do???

I easily see where a single S12EQ is a smarter choice than a single SB-2000. Do you feel the same in a dual sub scenario?

How would you rank either dual S12EQ's or SB-2000's vs a single JL Audio E112?

Thanks,
I just packed a pair of loaner JL E112s, I'm ready to send 'em back. They are great subs--both aesthetically and in terms of sound quality--but the price/performance ratio is tilted toward "luxury." It's a good option IF you have the disposable income.

The S12EQ has the assistance of a passive radiator, and the EQ function is awesome. That said, dual SB-2000s with some sort of DSP EQ solution (miniDSP 2x4, Audyssey, Dirac Live, etc.) will get you to the same place (and offer more control/options) in terms of integration. Then again, nothing says you can't use additional DSP processing with the ELACs. That's a really tough call, which speaks to how good both the ELAC and SVS subs are.

Mark Henninger

Last edited by imagic; 03-07-2016 at 06:55 AM.
imagic is offline  
post #24 of 84 Old 03-07-2016, 07:25 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,497
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3728 Post(s)
Liked: 1338
Measuring the low frequency response with a smartphone is a joke, right?
1. Consistency between phones
2. Low frequency capabilities – calibration files can fix response problems only within certain limits

You should have shown a comparison between what the phone measured and what REW measures at the main listening position.

Fixing modal problems requires very exact PEQ settings. The smartphone screenshots look way too coarse.

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is offline  
post #25 of 84 Old 03-07-2016, 07:31 AM - Thread Starter
Assoc. Editor @ AVS Forum
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 10,964
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5060 Post(s)
Liked: 8544
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
Measuring the low frequency response with a smartphone is a joke, right?
1. Consistency between phones
2. Low frequency capabilities – calibration files can fix response problems only within certain limits

You should have shown a comparison between what the phone measured and what REW measures at the main listening position.

Fixing modal problems requires very exact PEQ settings. The smartphone screenshots look way too coarse.
Here are words speaking to your concern, directly from Andrew...

"What we are doing is to equalize the listening position response to match the Nearfield response. Since the same mic is used for both measurements then it's actual performance cancels out, it only needs to have some response down to the lowest frequencies, which in practice most mics do.

We don't even have to know in absolute terms what the Nearfield actually is: we just know that from a design point of view that it represents what the design engineer intended the performance to be. Measuring in the Nearfield eliminates the room from the measurement, and in practice is how most engineers measure a subwoofer since even the best available anechoic chambers are not fully accurate at subwoofer frequencies. It's actually a very neat trick to get around the practical problems of calibrating a sub.

We don't need to know the microphone response and we don't even need to know the subwoofer response!! We do however have to assume it was well designed in the first place." - Andrew Jones


The EQ seemed accurate enough for what it needed to do.

As for REW graphs, all anyone has to do is ask (preferably nicely) and I'll always share in a comment what I describe in the review. Hope this helps...

thehun and D Bone like this.

Mark Henninger

Last edited by imagic; 03-07-2016 at 07:40 AM.
imagic is offline  
post #26 of 84 Old 03-07-2016, 07:45 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,497
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3728 Post(s)
Liked: 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Here are words speaking to your concern, directly from Andrew...

"What we are doing is to equalize the listening position response to match the Nearfield response. Since the same mic is used for both measurements then it's actual performance cancels out, it only needs to have some response down to the lowest frequencies, which in practice most mics do.

We don't even have to know in absolute terms what the Nearfield actually is: we just know that from a design point of view that it represents what the design engineer intended the performance to be. Measuring in the Nearfield eliminates the room from the measurement, and in practice is how most engineers measure a subwoofer since even the best available anechoic chambers are not fully accurate at subwoofer frequencies. It's actually a very neat trick to get around the practical problems of calibrating a sub.

We don't need to know the microphone response and we don't even need to know the subwoofer response!! We do however have to assume it was well designed in the first place." - Andrew Jones
"it only needs to have some response down to the lowest frequencies, which in practice most mics do" – pretty vague. How do I know that my particular phone is one of "most mics"?

Inverting a single point in space doesn't work if the response is non-minimum phase. Furthermore optimizing just a single point might make other locations worse.
Again, modal EQ needs to be very precise. What might look like a broad and shallow peak requires a very narrow notch.

Did you check before/after with REW?

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is offline  
post #27 of 84 Old 03-07-2016, 07:47 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,497
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3728 Post(s)
Liked: 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
The EQ seemed accurate enough for what it needed to do.

As for REW graphs, all anyone has to do is ask (preferably nicely) and I'll always share in a comment what I describe in the review. Hope this helps...

Could you please, please, pretty please upload that .mdat?

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is offline  
post #28 of 84 Old 03-07-2016, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
Assoc. Editor @ AVS Forum
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 10,964
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5060 Post(s)
Liked: 8544
Quote:
Originally Posted by markus767 View Post
"it only needs to have some response down to the lowest frequencies, which in practice most mics do" – pretty vague. How do I know that my particular phone is one of "most mics"?

Inverting a single point in space doesn't work if the response is non-minimum phase. Furthermore optimizing just a single point might make other locations worse.
Again, modal EQ needs to be very precise. What might look like a broad and shallow peak requires a very narrow notch.

Did you check before/after with REW?
The main thing (to me) is Auto-EQ did a good job for the seats that matter to me, basically a couch's worth located in residential room. If you need to cover a broader area or have an acoustically difficult room for whatever reason, then using multiple subs or miniDSP would undoubtedly be preferred. But in many instances, this strikes me as enough. Graphs are posted in a previous comment.

Mark Henninger
imagic is offline  
post #29 of 84 Old 03-07-2016, 07:56 AM - Thread Starter
Assoc. Editor @ AVS Forum
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 10,964
Mentioned: 166 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5060 Post(s)
Liked: 8544
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freewheeler View Post
Funny, you all got the element placings wrong. The active element is the one downfiring and the passive one is at the front. A great sounding sub, I've got one!

http://audiovideo.fi/sites/default/f...entti-9398.jpg
I guess the guy who designed it must be confused.

slosvt and D Bone like this.

Mark Henninger
imagic is offline  
post #30 of 84 Old 03-07-2016, 08:18 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
markus767's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 9,497
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3728 Post(s)
Liked: 1338
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Graphs are posted in a previous comment.
Thanks but could you please upload the .mdat as it most likely contains a lot more valuable information than smoothed magnitude plots. Thanks!

Markus

"In science, contrary evidence causes one to question a theory. In religion, contrary evidence causes one to question the evidence." - Floyd Toole
markus767 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off