Finishing up my home theater build in new house. Looking for help on subwoofer placement to see if makes a difference. I ran audyssey test with Denon and subwoofer was -6 so I bumped up to 0 level. I am using a splitter for the subwoofers as builder only ran one line (not sure if this affects performance).
What I have
Denon x4200
Outlaw 5000 ext amp (for Front L/R, Center, Surrounds)
2x SVS PB-1000
Klipsch 2x rp-280f, rp-450c, 2x rp-140s, 2x rp-150m, 2x Monoprice angled ceiling speakers
Epson 5030ub
120" elite screens grey
Subwoofer placement makes a huge difference. Did you do a sub crawl? Also, how large is your room and any adjoining rooms? You should also pull your main speakers out of the corners.
Maybe move the speakers in closer to the screen and put the subs in the front corners...? This will give a bit more output from corner placement and boundary reinforcement.
You are doing yourself a great disservice by not taking advantage of the dual sub calibration ability your AVR has (XT32 with SubEQ HT). This will help a lot with time aligning the subs. Albeit, with both subs basically equidistant to the MLP the advantages would be minimal.
That being said, to take advantage of what dual subs can offer (mode smoothing, a wider sweet-spot) they really should be spread around the room asymmetrically. Typically one in front and one in back or on a side wall will produce a good response. I know that they look good when placed up front and symmetrical, but that is rarely the placements that will get you the most performance.
Move your mains in closer to the screen, place one pb1000 in the front right corner, place another pb1000 in the rear left corner next to the bar. then run calibration and utilize XT32 with both sub outs.
I had thought to recommend the subs in corners, but from the picture he may be pinched for space. The sub and speaker appear to be right against each other and right next to the wall. The sub is extending out past the edge of the screen quite a bit. Swapping the sub/speaker position looks like it will result in the tower blocking the edge of the screen. I figured this is why the sub were placed on the inside of the towers as opposed to the outside.
Another vote for moving the main speakers away from the corners. You asked specifically about improving your sub performance, but it's hard not to want to help with the whole system a little. If it is possible to do diagonal corners as Basshead recommended, that would be a very good option. If not, moving the subs closer to the front corners might help.
The other thing I might seriously consider trying is 1/4 sidewalls. So, move both speakers in a foot or so, put the subs in the corners and then just slide them along the walls toward the listening position by a few feet. That would get them on opposing walls, and closer to the listening positions too. I agree with Alan that you would be well served to use separate Sub 1 and 2 for time alignment and leveling.
If you are able to move them to better positions, when you re-run Audyssey, try turning up the gain on both subs just a little. Audyssey will tell you your subs are too loud, but just proceed. You can do a calibration from just the first mic position to check your trim levels. After you get them where you want them, you can do the full 8 point calibration.
Try to shoot for about -10 or -11, but not -12 (that's as low as the trim level goes). Then, post-calibration, you can turn up your trim levels by 9 or 10db (10db is literally twice as loud). If your subs are in better positions, the combination of improved placement, and additional trim level, should help a lot.
Regards,
Mike
Incidentally, I'm sure you are already planning to do this, but getting the CC on a stand will help, even though you already have it tilted-up toward ear level. I hope you don't mind that additional suggestion, particularly if you were already going to do it.
If you put the subs in the corners it will boost the output to a certain extent. If this sounds better with them corner loaded and you don't have enough room to place your towers next to them, you could try this placement. Turn each sub sideways, driver firing towards the center channel. Place the towers directly in front of the subs. I've done this in the past and am currently doing this, but with down-firing cylinders.
Very nice setup, and I agree with the other posters as far as relocating your speakers.
A very simple test would be just walking around your room while listening to some heavy bass scenes. If you find a spot or two that gives the bass you were hoping for, and said to yourself, “I should put my chair here.”, then relocating your subs may be all you need. However, if you find you are not happy no matter where you are in the room, then perhaps it’s time to get bigger subs.
I dunno. I've had great success with the PB-1000 in rooms similarly sized as yours. Before sending it back, I would definitely try some of the above suggestions. My first guesses are that it (A) might have to do with placement, but I believe more so to do with (B) your settings. On the back of your sub, make sure to check your phase setting (start with 0), volume (perhaps start with the 12 o' clock position), and make sure the crossover setting (on the sub itself) is set to "LFE." Then rerun Audyssey and check your results.
If all else fails, step up to the PB-2000. I honestly don't think you'll need to, though. That PB-1000's a great sub that can have great impact when dialed in right.
Awesome setup! Before thinking about replacing any equipment, try turning Audyssey off and do some testing.... I think Audyssey really kills the tactile low bass. Also, you might be sitting in a room null, try walking back more towards the rear of the room as you are testing...maybe moving the chairs a few feet back might help. Trial and Error......
In my experience, whether its Yamaha's YPAO, Audyssey, or otherwise, they've done ok on the dB side of things, but often miss the mark when it comes to crossover frequencies. So often the auto-EQ sets the sub at like 160-180Hz crossovers or something really high. Depending on your speakers, bumping it back down to 80Hz or so can make a huge difference. That said, yeah, sometimes they DO kill the dBs, wanting to set them at like -10. Just bring it back up to what you prefer.
I definitely wouldn't say that Audyssey kills low bass, tactile or otherwise. Any number of people have measured the frequency response before-and- after with Audyssey. And, of course, listened critically, as well. What XT-32, which the OP has, does particularly well is to smooth out the humps and dips in the frequency response which are caused by room modes. The humps or peaks, can cause more bass sounds (up to 10 or 15db) at certain frequencies. But they also create a boomy sound which cover up other bass frequencies, and even some mid-range sounds. Conversely, dips in frequency response can render other bass frequencies completely inaudible.
Once you have heard a room/system with a fairly smooth and clear bass response, it's hard to go back to the boomy sound. But, it can take good sub placement, and some care with calibration, to help Audyssey get you there. And, if it's still more bass you want at that point, you can turn up the trim levels to get it, or ultimately go to even more powerful subs--all without ever having to experience boomy or mushy sounding bass again.
I am more than happy with my SB1000 i I gave away my SB13 Ultra as it seemed too boomy in my bedroom. I had a SB12 NSD before the Ultra and loved it also. I think my room was too small for the Ultra.
IMPO the 280s should offer nice bass output themselves (Set the front X-over to 40hz if you can) and then put each of the subs corner loaded, but leave about 8" (back wall) and 8" on the side of the walls (SVS's) and move the towers (280s) forward in front of the subs and see how they'll do.
SVS makes great subs and if you feel you need more contact SVS. Their service is wonderful and I am sure they could help you out.
Note: I just saw that your 280s are rear ported. They need room to give out bass. Going with my recommendations you'll see a huge improvement!
I got a set of JBL 590s where are also rear ported and I attempt the same setup as you and the speakers did not sound good at all in the bass dept. I do think you'll be happy w/ the overall recommendation if your ok the push the towers out a few feet from the wall and also toe them in a little like you have in the picture. Last, recalibrate your speakers and if the AVR sets the towers to small see if you can go into the setup menu in your avr and change it to 40hz or 60hz.
The front left and right should be further away from all the wall and further into the room
The center should be on a low stand.
To start with one sub should be on the right wall firing across the room, maybe even behind the front right speaker and the other sub should be right behind the couch on the left wall firing across the room.
I agree with previous posts about sub placement. You should avoid placing subs symmetrically. I would keep one in a corner and place the other next to the leftmost seat. It can double as an end table.
I ran dual PB-10's in a 4000 cu ft room for a stretch... After a lot of experimentation the most output I could get was about 105db across most of the LFE spectrum. From the looks of your room you should do at least that well if not better. If you're not, you're not getting the most out of what you have.
As others have said, sub placement is important but so is seat placement. If your seats are in the middle of the room you could be sitting in a bass null. Walk around and see if the bass is better in other parts of the room. Sometimes moving seats a foot or two further back makes a big difference.
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