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post #1 of 6319 Old 12-09-2016, 12:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Official JTR Speakers Subwoofer Thread

For those not familiar, JTR (web site here), operated by the ever low-key, low-profile Jeff Permanian, is one of the most highly-regarded and reputable internet direct companies in the US presently. The company makes both speakers and subwoofers, and has two divisions, one serves the live music reproduction industry, the other residential products for nutty hobbyists who frequent AVS forum. JTR made its mark first by readily submitting their subwoofers to be tested by third party (not all companies do this, and they should), namely the great test site Data-Bass, and second, in so doing, achieved some of the most spectacular test results ever seen in residential subwoofers. To make a long story short: there are many excellent subwoofer companies, but when it comes to performance, you could count on the fact that JTR *will* have the top performance metrics in EVERY single price point category.

I should mention a primary reason JTR subwoofers initially captured my attention was the colossal driver (among the very best of all subwoofers) with its impossibly huge magnet, a hint to their well-known deep bass prowess. In addition, even as majority of US audio companies source drivers and amps from China to cut cost, JTR continues using USA-made drivers and amps that are the heart and soul of its subwoofers. As a small company, amazingly enough the company founder at this point still hand assembles all JTR subwoofers. Essentially every JTR is a hand-made jewel :-), like many ultra high end component and the most expensive Swiss watches. Owners please keep this in mind every time you turn on that subwoofer - the pride is justified.

Why are JTR subwoofers so large? Because, all else being equaled, it's the law of physics that a larger subwoofer WINS. See Hoffman's Iron Laws for subwoofer design here; bigger is indeed better - higher output, deeper extension. JTR subwoofers bring to mind the best aspect of American muscle cars: take-no-prisoner power, in-your-face driver :-); classic principles of size and power without "unusual" electronic manipulation. So now we know: large cabinet + custom made monstrous 18 inchers + USA-made powerful amp, are the secret sauce that's responsible for the JTR sound. And what is the "sound" of JTR subwoofers? Subjectively ultra clean, without "overhang" or muddiness (most important quality of subwoofer to me, making it great for both music and movies) and sense of tremendous effortlessness that has to be heard once in your life. Yes it's a bucket list item; without a JTR subwoof, your (audio) life has not been fulfilled .

Lastly I should mention that prior to starting JTR, this company's founder had worked for many years developing drivers, and it is this expertise of driver function and manufacturing that gives JTR a huge advantage in subwoofer design. Congratulations on the company's 10 year anniversary celebration. Happy Holidays to all, and of course to Mr. JTR, Jeff Permanian.

I. To properly decide which subwoofer is right for you, it's best to first *categorize*. There are 2 primary categories: a. Motor strength/Xmax, and b. Single versus dual drivers. The motor strength rating is very important because it is key to ultra deep bass, and is listed on JTR website. For example: "extremely high strength motor 256 bl^2/re" for the JTR 1400, and "high strength motor 165.8 bl^2/re" for the JTR 118HT. Same for Xmax - pay attention to this as it affects capability in ultra-low frequency, the most expensive and difficult aspect of bass reproduction. So... with the above parameters in mind, let's see how the various JTR subwoofers are categorized:
Single, High Strength Driver, xmax 19 mm (this class is about $1300 & up)
JTR Captivator 118HT
Dual, High Strength Driver, xmax 19 mm: (this class is about $2000 & up)
JTR 218HT
Single, Extremely High Strength Driver, xmax 33 mm: (this class is also about $2000 & up)
JTR Orbit Shifter and Captivator 1400, 2400, and S1
Dual, Extremely High Strength Driver, xmax 33 mm: (this class is around $3000 & up)
JTR Captivator 4000 ULF and S2

II. Now that you've read the above, this is how I would describe each subwoofer:
Powerful Bang For The Buck
118HT: ported, 18", 19mm xmax, 120 oz. magnet, 700 watts RMS (ICE Power 700ASC module)
Sweet Spot - Great Size & Cost, STAGGERING Capability & CEA-2010
Captivator 1400: ported, 18", 33mm xmax, 1400 w RMS (Dual ICE Power 700ASC modules)
Captivator S1: sealed, 18", 33mm xmax, 2400 w RMS class D
Take No Prisoner
218HT: ported, dual 18", 19mm xmax, 1400 w RMS (Dual 700ASC)
Captivator 2400: ported, 18", 33mm xmax, 2400 w RMS, 14 hz tuned.
OMG
Captivator S2: sealed, dual 18", 33mm xmax, 4000 w RMS, class D
Orbit Shifter LFU: folded horn, 18", 30mm xmax, 4000 w RMS, 7200 w burst
Captivator 4000 ULF: ported, dual 18", 33mm xmax, 4000 w RMS

III. JTR Combinations First allow me to emphasize that there is NO winner among the following 5 combinations - they are all good for different reasons.
1. $900 budget-grin: (what you can't save $500 in 6 more months?) 118HT - among highest performance/cost ratio of all internet subwoofers, starts with one of these, aim for 2 as you grow older and richer :-). This is what I'd tell my brother to buy.
2. $2000 budget: 1400/S1 (S1 for small room and/or difficult int. designer wife/SO :-)) - now you have an extremely powerful driver. Or even better, add a few hundreds and go for JTR 2400. JTR 1400 = all around all-star, JTR 2400 = hall of famer. Although the 2400 is a better subwoofer, the 1400 will probably be JTR's best seller because of its more versatile combination of size and speed. This, JTR 1400, is the subwoofer I bought. Tremendous sound, nice size, great versatility - this one has it all IMHO.
3. $2500-$2800 budget: 2400 vs pair of 118HT (when it was on discount this was a great choice). No win, and no lose, situation. 2400 will go down in history as a hall of famer, all things considered one of the best subwoofers EVER designed. 2400 goes deeper but maybe not for small rooms, and dual 118 has better room distribution and more manageable size.
4. $4000 budget: Pair of 1400/S1 - ultimate performance but of course more expensive. This is what I would tell the AVS nutties to buy. Pair of 2400 even better but obviously only for big rooms and costs more; consults Mark first if your room is small.
5. $3300 budget and has the space for it, and not for small rooms: 4000 ULF. Wrt CEA=2010, simply put this is THE very "best" HT subwoofer Data-Bass has ever tested. The King. This is what I dream about LOL.




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post #2 of 6319 Old 12-09-2016, 12:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Data-Bass Reviews http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=s...type=0&mfr=18:

Captivator 1400:
The CEA-2010 short term distortion limited burst output measurements for the Cap1400 are among the highest output of any commercial subwoofer tested to this point.
The price tag for the Cap1400 is $1999 direct from the manufacturer. It is a lot of sub for the money. One of the more powerful all around home audio subs that has been tested for Data-Bass to this point, regardless of price. The Cap1400 put forth an impressive set of measurements and offers loads of deep bass headroom. Other than a bit of port noise near tuning and some distortion at the very limits of output with test signals it was utterly stoic during testing. The amplifier seemed to be well matched to the driver. The standard finish or size may be a bit much for some decors, but it is hard to find fault with the performance metrics posted by this sub.

Captivator S2: When the response is smooth, available headroom is high, the system overloads gracefully, the response is free from ringing or smearing and distortion is kept in check, the result is a system capable of excellent subjective performance. The Cap S2 does well in all of these areas and offers a compelling set of measurements and attributes that place it among the top performing active designs that have been tested for Data-Bass.

Orbit Shifter:
However the headroom on this system is so great that it would be hard to imagine a pair or even a single of these being driven very hard in a domestic setting with a single OS-LFU likely being able to produce 120dB or more at 20Hz with the addition of only a bit of room gain. This is easily the most powerful active, commercial subwoofer that has been tested to date. In fact it is among the top handful of most powerful systems period. Of course the OS-LFU is also the largest and heaviest commercial system that has been tested but that is what it takes to make big bass.

Captivator 4000 ULF:
The Captivator 4000-ULF is one of the most powerful subs that have come across the test bench and should be an excellent option for those on the market for an uber sub or two for a large dedicated space.
The basic response shape is flat and extremely extended down to the 10Hz range. With the LF adjust knob at maximum the response fits within a tight 2dB window from 10-120Hz outdoors.


CEA-2010 Comparisons
CEA-2010 testing is a new standard of the industry that allows one to compare subwoofers' two most critical performance metrics, harmonic distortion and dynamic headroom, in an objective manner. By far the most trustworthy testing is by Josh Ricci who runs Data-Bass.com and is part of Audioholics. CEA-2010 is easy enough to read: look at the frequency, and then look at the sound pressure level in dB, BIGGER = BETTER. The validity of CEA-2010 is without doubt and I would question any company that does not provide detailed testing by a third party.
BTW, if you look at Data-Bass, you'll see two colors for the windows, either green or orange. Both are good, as long as there is a number. If you are curious why they have different colors - following is my attempt at an explanation (any pro pls correct as needed):
1. From mid-bass frequency and up, say 40 hz, SPL output is limited by limiter/compressor used by the engineer to limit amplifier output. Therefore the higher range of bass outputs in CEA-2010 are always "amplifier limited." These are the green windows of data-bass. As to why limiters/compressors are necessary: to protect the voice coil from thermal stress that could lead to thermal compression, or worse, meltdown.
2. At very low frequency, around 30 hz & below, harmonic distortion is the issue as driver excursion exceeds useful throw (Xmax). Every octave reduction (eg 36 to 18 hz) results in a 4 times (!) increase in excursion, so it's easy to see the tremendous mechanical stress this causes. This region is hence "driver limited" because of increasing harmonic distortion at ultra low freq, and is the reason why ultra low bass is always the most difficult and expensive.
CEA-2010 chart below by chucky7 (thank you), valid as of 2/2017. When looking at CEA-2010 keep in mind you have to examine specific spl output at each frequency, not just "averages." Averaging of CEA data has inherent error especially in ultra low frequency (it hides limitation at low frequency) and should never be listed by itself.






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post #3 of 6319 Old 12-09-2016, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Hometheatershack Reviews - By Jim Wilson

118HT: http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...ht-review.html
Do you crave pervasive bass, constant output which is seemingly never more than a hairsbreadth below the surface of everything you listen to? If so, the JTR Captivator 118HT may not be the subwoofer for you because it doesn't play that game. The overall appearance could suggest unrefined or ostentatious to some, but that couldn't be any further from the truth. This subwoofer is designed for those who relish a more subdued approach, who appreciate a subtle and textured sound. It can be relaxed, almost calm even, but don't take that to mean weak because it has teeth and it's not afraid to show them at a moments notice; it can and will bite when provoked. Virtually unflappable, the Captivator 118HT never seemed phased by what I threw at it, all the while sneering in contempt as I tried in vain to trip it up. Placid, yet with a mean right hook when warranted, the JTR Captivator 118HT evinced itself to me as a subwoofer tour-de-force.

Captivator S1: http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...s1-review.html
Can a subwoofer made by a company known for designing products targeted at people who view a Metallica concert as docile be capable of something other than obnoxious volume? Is it possible to achieve any semblance of refinement from a product whose appearance suggests blunt force trauma? JTR Speakers is famous (infamous?) for creating speakers and subwoofers powerful enough they can be heard from a block away - and no, I'm not kidding - yet in spite of their reputation for outlandishness the person behind it all is an aficionado of music. I've heard several JTR offerings in the past but on each occasion it was at a GTG, gatherings where insane volume commands all bragging rights. I often wondered if this company could do anything else. When I finally got my hands on one of their products I decided to see if it was capable of something other than shouting, and it turns out the answer is an unequivocal yes. The JTR Captivator S1 is a powerhouse subwoofer, but you probably already knew that part. What you may not have realized is it also has an incredible amount of finesse. The S1 proved to be the rare combination that skillfully blends brute force with elegance in equal parts. Think brass knuckles hidden inside a velvet glove and you start to get an idea of what I'm referring to. This is the Mike Tyson of subwoofers, had he gone to Juilliard; small and intimidating, yet a musical savant. The living embodiment of the word "oxymoron".

Comparison S1 - 118HT - 1400 (From same reviewer - Jim Wilson)
The S1 is everything its appearance suggests - blunt force trauma - but it has a surprising amount of composure. A lot of that can be attributed to a JTR design ethos; high amp power + high motor strength = precision cone control. In large part, that's why I bought the review unit; it afforded me the opportunity to have depth, output and accuracy in sufficient quantities to satisfy my particular needs. It fit my requirements from a size perspective as well.
Because the driver in the 118HT appears to be from a PA cabinet it would be easy to dismiss, but in this case appearances are deceiving. Not only can it be counted on to provide a lot of output, it also has the goods to play deep. And of the 3 it's probably the most articulate, so there's a win-win right there. But then we have the Cap1400...
Take the S1 and mate it with the 118HT and you get close. The extraordinary amount of mid-bass this thing can produce has to be experienced to really understand its target audience; you feel the bass pounding against your chest, and depending upon the source material it can be rather pronounced. That's not to say the S1 and 118HT don't have a similar ability, it's just the 1400 goes about it in a more overt manner.
So what should you get? That's not my call, but if size and money are no object you should look long and hard at the 1400. If money is an object but size isn't (insert your own joke here) the 118 is still an excellent choice. The S1 worked better for me because I couldn't accommodate the larger cabinet that the 118/1400 use. I lose some mid-bass but I gain more capability in the lower octave. That was definitely the best choice in my case. At 4400 ft^3 you don't have a small room, so consider output when making a decision. If you ultimately go duals than you're covered no matter which of these you choose.
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post #4 of 6319 Old 12-09-2016, 12:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Subwoofer Evaluation - IMHO

With all audio components, evaluation consists of two primary parts, subjective and objective.
1. Subjective Testing is of course, people's evaluation of the sound quality of a component; what it sounds like rather than what it measures like. It's probably better not to judge based on individual X's internet evaluation, but to follow multiple evaluations (ie third party reviews, both professional such as Data-Bass/Audioholics and trustworthy non profession sources, etc.) over the long run. Subjective evaluation is extremely important, but its biggest problem is the inherently questionable trustworthiness: person X's system is not the same as yours, neither is his room, and above all his personal preference and listening skill/experience may be completely different from yours.
2. Objective Testing These are objective measurements by reviewers such as Data-Bass. For subwoofers, these are the 3 tests I look at, don't claim to be right and YMMV:
*** CEA-2010: Overall and IMHO the single most important test for any subwoofer. Measure two critical parameters: harmonic distortion and in effect dynamic headroom, so bigger is better. Dynamic headroom is important for many reasons, but especially to me because it gives in the sense of effortlessness that I treasure.
In addition and as importantly, CEA-2010 reflects harmonic distortion. If subwoofer A passes 20 Hz test at 100 dB, and subwoofer B passes at 90 dB, then subwoofer A will have less distortion at 90 dB. It is just cruising at this level.
*** Long term output compression tests: Least amount of compression at high SPL means better dynamic headroom.
*** Frequency Response Curve: Flat and extended response from 20-120 Hz, the frequency range of the LFE channel, should be the norm. I would be concerned if there is large roll off at either end, high or low. Although room correction could correct frequency anomaly, personally I prefer to "invoke" correction as little as possible because to me any equalizer bump means a reduction in dynamic headroom available at that frequency. Nearly all modern subwoofers have flat response, so a significant roll off should raise questions: Why, is there problem with the design, is there problem with harmonic distortion, etc.


Some interesting charts

JTR Captivator 1400 vs SVS PB16 Ultra:

Result? From 16-31 hz, SVS and JTR are equal, but at ALL OTHER frequencies, advantage JTR: ultra low (+7 dB at 12 hz), mid, and high (from 40 hz on up, as much as 9 dB). The differences are shockingly large at upper bass range.




Room Interactions

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I have been lurking for a while and was going to get a Captivator sooner or later, but the 10% off Holiday sale for the $1900 Captivator makes it a *steal* for this colossal monster so I pulled the trigger immediately. With overhead, etc., I don't know how Jeff makes money on this.

So why this subwoofer, among the so many excellent choices out there? JTR has consistently garnered some of the **highest customer reviews** I've seen for any audio component. When I searched this forum the name Captivator kept coming up as among the very best available, so I too was captivated :-). Of course there is this remarkable review from Data-bass: http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=117.

I actually am a pretty hard core audio hobbyist, or audiophile, or whatever term you like to call us nuts LOL. I've had a few music-oriented subwoofers in my system over many years (REL, JL Audio, Apogee, Sunfire, Muse, etc.), but now realize my life is not complete without an 18 incher for movies :-). While I've used subwoofs that are sealed or have smallish 10-12 inch drivers for my music system, for movies I realize I would need a ported solution for that ultimate 16-30 hz SLAM! While music is mostly activity above 30 hz, there is often enough infrasonic 15-30 hz content in movies that I think a big gun is no longer an option, but a necessity. I looked at 3 great brands, Seaton, JTR, and Funk, and JTR Captivator 1400 came out as the only choice for sub $2k, PORTED, 18 incher, with high power amp (1400 watts rms).

Just like to mention that JTR does offer an automotive paint option. I ran across this beautiful Captivator with custom paint on the internet, and decided to do some thing similar. Automotive paint for speakers is not new - Wilson Audio speakers use Ferrari paint colors for example. I am glad that it's an option here as I am littler tired of my multiple black subwoofers :-).






EDIT January 26, 2017 - My own Captivator finally is here!
Review:

What took me by surprise was not the tremendous output of the Captivator 1400, this is already well known, but how "clean" and "defined" the bass is (no "overhang" to the sound). San Andreas is all about grunt, growl, and roar LOL; the building grunts, growls, and roars, the earth grunts, growls, and roars, all at levels designed to make audience run for cover. The 1400 makes the pitch of these sounds clearly defined, with nice distinction of character for each sound. It makes me pay attention to hear these less as generic noise of an earthquake, more as extremely interesting and varying sound effects that the sound engineer has put in the mix. We buy the Cap 1400 for its fantastic CEA-2010 numbers in ultra low bass, but I believe it equally shines and flexes its muscles in the equally critical mid bass 30-40 hz area, both objectively (numbers) and subjectively (what we hear). Subwoofers with outstanding ultra low bass CEA measurements in general has outstanding mid bass numbers as well, and this is another reason why you should own this baby :-).

Alas, we know the Cap could go low and loud, what I did not expect is how very well it allows me to listen "deeper into the mix". While most of explosive sound effects in San Andreas are meant to be destructive and violent in nature , others are actually very quiet and subtle, and rise menacingly from a quiet background. With the 1400, low level bass effects appear more noticeable, instead of getting lost in the mix. This quality of the Captivator is as equally endearing to me as its output capability.

I own the JL Audio E112, a subwoofer that is known in high-end audio circles for its tight clean bass, hence especially recommended for music. When I finally did a shoot out between my JL Audio 12 incher vs JTR Captivator's 18 incher, lo and behold to my ears/system it is the JTR that is cleaner and has less muddiness/overhang. Essentially "better" for music as well (and no comparison whatsoever for movies).

As for the famous output capability of this Captivator, a little past midnight during the first listening session, the room rumbled and shook so much my son told me to stop the movie. We couldn't tell how much of these rumblings were being transmitted to neighbors, and in view of chucky7's experience with his ;-), didn't want to take a chance.














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This is the thread for Captivator 1400: Oh snap! Jtr cap 1400

This is the thread for Captivator S1 and S2 (Sealed) JTR Captivator S (Sealed)

Perhaps you want to include them in your first post...
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Panasonic TC-P55UT50
Pioneer SC-1222-K
Polk Audio LSiM703 / LSiM706c / RTiA3
JTR Captivator 1400
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post #7 of 6319 Old 12-10-2016, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Always look at the driver and its specs.

From reading posts from the experts and bass heads in this forum, I realized that the driver and in particular the size of the driver's magnet is the equivalence engine size in sports cars. This is where connoisseurs take a quick look for an overall estimate of worth . Where the men are separated from the boys so to speak. The more robust subwoofer nearly always has huge magnets and deeper-looking basket.

Someone here mentioned that Captivator 18 incher looks more like a murder weapon than a speaker LOL. Me, I knew I was in "trouble" when those huge magnets started to look pretty!

Pic of Captivator 1400's driver below - second one from Axpona 2017 shows just how enormous that driver looks in real life. I assume the same driver is used in some other JTR subwoofers as well. Thanks Jeff for the pics.

JTR 18" Driver (From Peterc613 - thank you.)

• Hand built in the USA to JTR's specifications
• Ti frame originally introduced by TC Sounds
• Large half roll foam surrounds
• Carbon fiber dust caps
• 10" spiders for linearity even at high voice coil displacements
• Large ferrite based motors with a shorting ring
• Powerful BL^2/Re rating of 256
• Xmax of 66mm (linear), peak to peak (33mm each way)
• Xmech of 101mm, peak to peak (2" each way, 4" peak to peak)
• Weight around 60lbs (each)




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Ported or sealed, sealed or ported?
Below is frequency response of a subwoofer that could be used in either mode sealed or ported. Sealed mode has 3-5 dB advantage at 15 hz and below, while ported has advantage from 15 hz up to 40 hz, as much as 9 dB at tuned freq around 17 hz. Because this is for movie mostly, I feel that range 15-40 has to be robust and hence a ported 18 incher is a must. I really probably would be happy with either type, and as mentioned actually preferred sealed subwoofer, or ported with smallish driver for music. I have to be right on with this choice and so went with the one subwoofer that screams "if I don't sound right, there's something wrong with YOU."

The Equal Loudness Contour curve also argues for a ported subwoofer with a fat bottom end :-). Our ears, or perhaps more accurately, our perception of sound, become less "sensitive" as frequency decreases. For example, from the contour: to have the same perceived loudness as a 3 khz signal at around 100 dB, a lower frequency 20 hz signal has to be played at *130 dB*. It's reasonable to argue that from a subjective standpoint, you would want a subwoofer that maintains output FULLY to as low of a frequency as possible - hence ported.







From @Peterc613 in one of his as usual tremendously informative posts (thank you):

Sealed Subwoofers

In a sealed subwoofer, the driver is responsible for 100% of the system’s output. Overall system performance is a function of the driver’s Thiele/Small parameters and enclosure volume, which together will determine system Q and the system’s resonant frequency. Below the resonant frequency, sealed subwoofers typically feature a shallow roll-off of 12dB/octave, which also corresponds with relatively low levels of group delay and ringing in the deep bass. It’s possible to get a wide variety of response profiles from sealed subwoofers by simply varying box volume, with a Qtc of 1.0 being achieved in a small 54L box, 0.707 in a medium sized 136L box, and 0.5 in a very large 525L enclosure. While a Qtc of 0.5 corresponds with a relatively extended response, there is a price to pay as this requires tremendous amounts of amplifier power and cone excursion at low frequencies. Subjectively speaking, lower Q boxes (0.707 and lower) tend to be characterized as relatively tight, while high Q enclosures can be a bit boomy without equalization due to their response hump in the mid-bass range. On the other hand, one benefit of higher Q enclosures is that they offer a greater degree of protection for the driver against high-energy, low-frequency transients.

http://audiojudgement.com/thiele-sma...ers-explained/

While not all sealed subwoofers are created equal, properly done the alignment has a lot to offer. Size is typically manageable, giving it a lot of flexibility in placement as well as a high WAF (wife acceptance factor). While small size tends to come at the expense of extension, sealed subwoofers generally have a shallow low-end roll-off profile, which corresponds with good performance in the time domain (i.e. group delay / ringing). What sealed subs lack in SPL output compared to a ported subs can be compensated by using multiple sealed subs to provide the extension of a sealed sub with the output of a ported design. Last but not least, sealed subwoofers offer some degree of protection against bottoming out the driver, though it is still possible with sufficient power and the right content.


Ported Subwoofers

In a ported subwoofer, both the driver and the port contribute to the system’s output. Porting augments the driver's output at the vent’s resonant frequency, which extends the subwoofer’s response and allows for substantially more output capability at the tuning point relative to a comparable sealed subwoofer. However, below the tuning frequency, the driver is no longer loaded by the enclosure, and acts as if it is in free air. This results in a much steeper roll off rate of 24dB/octave relative to the 12dB/octave slope typical of sealed subwoofers; as a consequence, group delay is typically higher in ported models. In addition, below the tuning frequency, the woofer is in danger of over-excursion without appropriate filters for protection, which can further exacerbate problems related to group delay. Of course, like sealed subwoofers, many different response profiles are possible by varying enclosure size as well as port length vs diameter (larger enclosures and longer ports result in lower tuning points). It should also be noted that ported enclosures are typically much larger than sealed enclosures.

At their tuning point, ported subs typically offer better low-end extension and greater output than sealed subs. However, there is no free lunch; deeply-tuned ported subwoofers tend to be quite large, making them less décor friendly as well as reducing placement options. Further, while ported subwoofers have a big output advantage down to their tuning point, below tune, frequency response drops off steeply while driver excursion goes off the charts. Subwoofer amplifiers usually employ DSP filters to protect the driver from over-excursion, which can result in an even steeper low end roll off, and consequently problems with group delay and ringing.




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post #9 of 6319 Old 12-12-2016, 06:22 AM - Thread Starter
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JTR's automotive paint finish: The process is that you pick a color from a car company and each should have a paint code. The speaker will then be painted that exact color. Being a die-hard Porsche fan I opted for the Porsche Carmine Red color. By searching on the internet I was able to find the paint code for this color and therefore had a perfect match. My understanding is Jeff could match to almost any automotive paint color from any car manufacturer as long as there is a paint code.

Not sure I would want a colorful paint finish for my main tower speakers, but for a short subwoofer that's destined to be close to a wall and surrounded by "blackness" :-) of most audio components, I think it would be nice to look at, and FUN. There is an up-charge as listed on web site, but from the sample above, I think well worth it and highly recommended. I would like a little color in my (audio) life.


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post #10 of 6319 Old 12-13-2016, 05:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Room Placement: Sideways or "classic" (facing front):

JTR 2400 may sound better sideways according to Jeff - less cancellation from reflection off the back wall (boundary reflection/baffle step effect ?). It's probably better to think of JTR ULF models (4000 and 2400) as a 40 inch wide subwoofer that is 20 inch deep -- ie you need WIDTH not depth.

Too see the frequency of the cancellation - check the chart below. For example if the driver of the subwoofer is 4 ft off the wall, the cancellation is around 70 Hz. At 2 ft it's 140 Hz, beyond the pass band of LFE so doesn't matter as much for more shallow JTR subwoofers.





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JTR just stepped it up a notch by introducing an all new Captivator 1400 with a higher excursion driver for increased lowend output and reduced distortion, larger port for increase lowend output, improved cabinet bracing and damping for improved sound quality and lower distortion. There is also a new dsp program for the "lf adjust" that when turned all the way down will simulate a sealed subwoofers lowend roll off. The new 2017 version produces over a 1db more output on the bottomend. As soon as the weather breaks this spring we'll have them at Data-Bass. We have already started shipping.

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One of the first 2017 Captivator 1400 is being custom painted
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Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
JTR just stepped it up a notch by introducing an all new Captivator 1400 with a higher excursion driver for increased lowend output and reduced distortion, larger port for increase lowend output, improved cabinet bracing and damping for improved sound quality and lower distortion. There is also a new dsp program for the "lf adjust" that when turned all the way down will simulate a sealed subwoofers lowend roll off. The new 2017 version produces over a 1db more output on the bottomend. As soon as the weather breaks this spring we'll have them at Data-Bass. We have already started shipping.


Oh I would be among the first customers who benefit from this upgrade to the Captivator 1400? Fantastic!!
PS I had better be Jeff or I'd be heartbroken.

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Oh I would be among the first customers who benefit from this upgrade to the Captivator 1400?
Yes sir.
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Originally Posted by Jeff Permanian View Post
JTR just stepped it up a notch by introducing an all new Captivator 1400 with a higher excursion driver for increased lowend output and reduced distortion, larger port for increase lowend output, improved cabinet bracing and damping for improved sound quality and lower distortion. There is also a new dsp program for the "lf adjust" that when turned all the way down will simulate a sealed subwoofers lowend roll off. The new 2017 version produces over a 1db more output on the bottomend. As soon as the weather breaks this spring we'll have them at Data-Bass. We have already started shipping.


Hi Jeff, a couple of questions please.

1. What's the rationale behind adding this LF Adjust function & how do you personally use it in your setup? During calibration to get a smooth curve, or adjust to subjective taste from movie to movie, etc.?

2. How is this new LF Adjust different from the existing one? Currently it is a cut or boost of 5 dB from 30 hz down right? The new one cuts it further?

3. Given that "deep bass is expensive bass" :-). Why would I not want to turn up this LF Adjust knob all the time ? What's the disadvantage? TIA

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Oh I would be among the first customers who benefit from this upgrade to the Captivator 1400? Fantastic!!
PS I had better be Jeff or I'd be heartbroken.

Emailed Jeff a couple of days ago, and I will also benefit from these new changes. I can't wait to get these in.

Also Jeff, would you recommend plugging the 1400 into a Panamax MD2 or just straight in the wall?

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The "lf adjust" is a cut only filter and is there to tailor the subwoofer's lowend response to the room gain of the room it is being installed into. With the "lf adjust" all the way up it will give you a flat response outdoors and with it all the way down it will give you a flat response is a small sealed room. Because subwoofers have more maximum output capability on the topend you gain headroom with the "lf adjust" turned down. I would start with the "lf adjust" turned all the way down, take a measurement and adjust from there until you have a nice flat response. In our 16'x18'x8' demo room we ended up with the "lf adjust" at 1/4 the way up.
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Gravity - did you notice the "overhead flies" sequence? Wow - stunning sound engineering and a worthy test of our "ultra" systems!

Allow me to share list of movies I vote best for the JTR Captivator 1400 . These have sequences that contain not just deep bass, but powerful mid and high frequency effects. I prefer more wide-band clips because they are more crushing and VIOLENT :-), especially the ones in red. (Please note I'm otherwise a very peaceful person.) Credit goes to "bass heads" on AVS forum that have given me the knowledge + incentive. And yes some of the movies have perhaps questionable plot and acting :-), but believe me the sound is worth it.

Note how many times the name Richard King got mentioned - multiple Oscar winner & nominations; quite a talented audiophile. In fact, as far as audio engineering, two names appear frequently in these blockbusters:
Richard King: War of the World, Master & Commander, Interstellar, Dark Knight
William Files: Cloverfield, Percy Jackson Lightning Thief, 9, Midnight Special


TOP 7
***War of the Worlds: A well known favorite and IMHO still an all-time number-one demo movie. Top of the chart no matter which aspect of sound you are judging. Dramatic, violent, loud, deep. Scenes: Pod emerging - Lightning strike - Airplane crash. Oscar nomination 2005 Richard King (also Interstellar & won 2003 Oscar for Master & Commander & 2008 Oscar for Dark Knight - King is an extremely talented sound engineer and clearly an audiophile).
***Cloverfield This and Interstellar are the most interesting movies of this top group to me. Can't give away the spoiler, but... do turn the volume UP - he he. IMHO the art of movie sound is not all-loud-all-the-time, but silence interrupted with sudden and violent BOOMS :-). And surely, there are multiple, and I repeat, MULTIPLE, booms :-) throughout this movie that are guaranteed to give your subwoofer a workout. Scenes: Chapter 5 20:30 Building collapses Chapter 6 27:30 Monster on bridge Chapter 8 35:00 Army attack Chapter 14 1:06:00 Helicopter crash Chapter 15 1:08:00 Final encounter. Sound engineer William Files (also involved in a ton of other blockbusters: Percy Jackson Lightning Thief, 9, Midnight Special).
***The Incredible Hulk Three words to describe the sound of this movie: ridiculously, ridiculously, VIOLENT :-). This is another all time classic like War of the Worlds and is an recommended buy without reservation, for the sound. Thunderous, deep, loud, FUN! Scenes: Chap 5 (0:25:50) Encounter at Brazil factory - Chap 10 (0:54:50) Encounter in the park with sonic cannons - Chap 17 (1:32:50) Fight against Abomination
***Live Free or Die Hard: Scenes: Chap 5 Attack at apartment - THE single most satisfactory explosion ever recorded on to Blu-ray :-). An incredible explosive sound effect expanding outward from the center speaker. Chapter 15 Collisions in the tunnel. Chapter 23 Gas Explosion. Chapter 33 Jet Attack. The sound of this movie took me completely by surprise - extremely potent and polished.
***Interstellar: Mostly a mid-bass dominated movie, but nevertheless, in all my years of fooling around with audio, this is probably the most prominent example yet of sounds (NOT the physical vibration, just sounds) that give me an illusion that objects are physically shaking in my room (think about it :-)). An intense, very intense, sonic experience that makes me feel like I were there (and isn't that what this is all about?). Oscar nomination best sound editing/mixing 2014 Richard King. Scenes: Liftoff (oh my goodness!) - Entering worm hole (holy macaroni :-)) - In Gargantua (OMG!).
***San Andreas: Like Interstellar, a sonic AND visual tour de force, with outrageous mid-bass output. 3 memorable scenes: Earthquake in Los Angeles - Earthquake in San Franciscio - Tsunami. This is the movie I turn to if I've had a bad day at work :-). Hold on to you chair boys and girls.
***Dredd A 5-star bass blockbuster with an extremely polished bass mix, and actually an extremely fun/tongue-in-cheek action movie. I am just not content with hearing explosions anymore (War Horse for example) because it gets boring after a while, so I'm happy that in Dredd, the bass mix is sophisticated with a variety of bass effects, and therefore so much more interesting. My son the movie buff and I both loved it. Available for pennies on ebay and therefore *extremely* highly recommended. There are other movies (NOT many) with perhaps "louder" bass, but this is top 7 because it has "sophisticated" bass :-). Scenes: Chapter 2 5:50 - Chapter 7 Lock down; door dropping - Chapter 10: Opens with an explosion that would clean your ears and followed by complete mayhem. Of note, at 51:38 Of note, at 51:38 as extremely menacing rumbling came on as Dredd tortured Kay. So subtle yet adds so much to the experience - listen to see if your subwoofer highlights this, I love it!


THE REST
***How To Train Your Dragon: It's been many years since I enjoyed watching a cartoon, so the fact that I mention this one at at all speaks to its tremendous low frequency prowess. Throughout most of this movie I was yawning and wondering why it's so famous, then I got to the ending. Goodness, the triad 1:12:50 cave opening, 1:14:10 dragon emerging, 1:22:45 dragon crash at 1:22:45 is the equal of anything I have ever heard in audio over the last 20 years. An absolute can't miss for any lover of sound and for all JTR owners. My whole house was shaking and flexing - it is SO... MUCH... FUN... Please, do not miss this.
***Underworld: Awakening: Absolutely balls to the wall sound :-) of the highest pedigree. If this were a better movie, it would have tied War of the Worlds for number one spot. Problem is, it's kind of a ho-hum flick so it has to lead the second tier, but make not mistake about the sound. SEVERAL moments of clean, most powerful mid bass and deep bass, from beginning to end. 23:20 (lycans), 43:50 (footsteps).
***Battle: Los Angeles This movie is proof that we should buy as many Blu Ray as possible because one, they are all so much fun, and two, not all explosions sound the same - they are all beautiful in different ways. This thing is deep and loud. Actually, in-your-face VERY deep, and VERY loud :-). Scenes: Chapter 3 20:45 Helicopter arriving to LA Chapter 9 56:00 Alien aircraft up close (love the sophisticated exhaust sound!) Chapter 10: Battle at the bridge - 1:05:50 "What the hell is that thing?" LOL 20:45 Mothership taking off - the mother of all explosions.
***Percy Jackson & The Olympians: The Lightning Thief: Not continuous bass but what's there has no equal. 38:30 Hades appearance 1:06:00 Hydra attack - wow!. Down to 10 Hz and so powerful I had to check all my speakers after the movie. 1:36:00 Percy and Luke fight. 1:40:45 Arriving to Mt. Olympus (what on earth was that explosion?). Also, unfortunately not such a good movie; I admit all I paid attention to was the sound, not the plot :-).
***Ragnarok: What movie has guttural monster screams that BEAT the COMBINED effort of Jurassic Park and Desolation of Mauch? Ragnarok! Effects are wide-band (high and low freq combined, not just low, which is not as exciting to me), and make the sound utterly brutal. The movie is an all-time bass classic the caliber of War of the Worlds, with single digit and up frequency response. The plot is a barely-ok copy of ***spoiler alert*** some famous dinosaur movie, and something that I would not have watched twice. But... as it were, with the bass, I'm on my third helping LOL. The bass is off the chart and rocks my hometheater repeatedly. So much so my son came into the room just to see what on earth was going on. Sound mixes like this don't come often, and for that, I will be buying.
Scenes: 00:56:30 Cave encounter 00:59:00 - Container pull - 1:09:00 Crossing the lake - a spectacular buildup to the snap (@ 1:09:50 OMG) - 1:12:00 Chase in tunnel - fantastically loud chase music - 1:20:00 Allan's demise - 1:23:30 Final encounter
***Flight of the Phoenix: Scenes: Chapter 5 & 6 Sand storm & plane crash - Chapter 17 Explosion - Chapter 35 Plane taking of. Amazing mix, lots of low bass. There's nothing better than watching to a bad storm in movie, except for... an airplane in a bad storm in a movie! :-)
***Edge of Tomorrow The now famous opening minute of the movie has a series of pulses at 30, 25, 20, 15, 10 hz that are not just (obviously) low, but loud as well and may cause the woofers to jump out of the cabinet :-)... you've been warned. Every halving of frequency increases excursion by 4 (from 30 to 15 to 7.5 hz, your subwoofer driver moves 16 times more), and by looking (not listening) you could tell which one is the 10 hz killer LOL.
***War Horse A quiet movie until chapter 21 and 22, then all hell broke loose with the first cannon shot that caused me to almost fall off my chair LOL. War Horse reminds me very much of the artillery barrage of Master and Commander (DVD not Bluray). Anyone here into non stop loud and house-lifting cannon shots - buy this.
***Deep Water Horizon:*** There is something about these bubbly low bass sound effects - very addicting.
***Super 8: Scenes: Train wreck - Bus crash & attack. Train wreck sequence is a well crafted perfect 10 coordination between screen action and sound effects that is also a topic of discussion by pro's Click Here). So real it's frightening; frequently makes my audience physically "duck" the flying debris. IMHO this is a must-have show-off demo and among my all time favorites. Talented sound editor is Benn Burt (voice of R2D2, light saber hum, breathing sound of Darth Vader, etc.).
***Everest: Atmos and 3D. Scenes: Chapter 14 Arrival of the storm - Chapter 16 Avalanche
***Olympus Has Fallen Scenes: Washington Monument
***Gravity: I think movie is ok only but sound is without reproach. Unbelievably good deep bass from beginning to end, spectacular visuals that are well coordinated with amazing sound effects. Oscar winner 2013 sound editing and mixing Glenn Freemantle
***Mad Max Fury Road: 2015 Oscar winner for both Sound Mixing and Editing Mark Mangini and David White. A big fan of sports car's exhaust sound, I use the opening clip to evaluate mid bass "power." My criticism of this double Oscar winner is this: it's just one very lousy and "noisy" movie. Too much of a loud assault to the ears, where the *ART* IMHO is silence interpersing with sonic mayhems.
***Dark Knight: Scenes: Chapter 20 Tunnel Car Chase-Chapter 30 Hospital Exploding. Needs no introduction; long a favorite among nutty bassheads. 2008 Oscar winner sound editing Richard King.
*** Lord of the Rings Fellowship of the Ring: 2001 Oscar nomination Best Sound Christopher Boyes et al. Scense: Bridge of Khazad Dum: 'nuff said!
***Lord of the Rings: Two Towers 2002 Clips: Gandalf falls - Nazgul Black Riders over dead marshes. Oscar Winner for Sound Effects Mike Hopkins and Ehtna Van der Rynand Oscar Nomination for Sound Mixing
***Lord of the Rings Return of the King 2003 Oscar Winner Sound Mixing Christopher Boyes et al.


3D Yes I'm a fan, mostly for scenic type movies.
***Echanted Kingdom: Best of all nature type Blu-ray that I have seen. Visually and "sonically" arresting.
***Point Break: The plot is marginal, although it is not un-interesting :-). Other than that: Fantastic stunt work, amazing cinematography, wonderful sound and powerful bass.
***Flight of the Butterflies: For sissies - kidding. Made for 3D - trust me you'll like the visual effects.


"MUSIC/MUSICAL"
*** Chicago: Cell block Tango - one of my all time favorites - Queen Latifah's in night club. Musical, intensely physical - not the sound, the dancers :-). I love watching how powerful and beautiful the young dancers are. Oh... how about the sound? So dynamic - very much so, yet silky smooth voice and high end, transparent and layered soundstage. This is my "musical" demo. 2002 Oscar winner for Sound Mixing Michael Minkler, David Lee, and Dominick Tavella
*** Roy Orbison Black and White Night: A awesome classic - if only for those w/ more "classic" music taste LOL. Recorded and produced by an audiophile - T Bone Bennett and that explains the great sound. Wish I were there - sigh. https://www.amazon.com/Roy-Orbison-B...+night+blu+ray
***Blue Man Group Audio*** (Audio is title of release) - DVD-Audio Format (Come in Blu-ray size case - you do NOT want the CD.): https://www.amazon.com/Blue-Man-Grou.../dp/B000051S65. This is one of the most awesome demo disc I've come across; and I've come across many. It will rock your room I promise. I got mine off of ebay for $3 but even new one should only be around $10 or so; again just make sure that it's the correct disc you are buying. Some of my favorite tracks:
2 PVC IV: I'm not gonna say anything. Just turn it to max LOL. Un****believeable.
3 TV Song: An onslaught of impossibly big, huge drums, huge space, border of room disappears. I am in awe.
9 Club Nowhere: Fantastic and menacing bass rumbling. What a "backside" JTR massage.
13 Klein Mandelbrot: Some drum wacks guaranteed to clean out your ears. Goodness.
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The cabinet is out for gel coat and will be back next week. When off to the body shop for paint.
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Originally Posted by cannga View Post
For fun allow me to share list of movies I have ready for the JTR Captivator 1400 ...
Also try the following:
Olympus Has Fallen - The Washington Monument scene - it's deep, loud, and the best of all, long~
The Incredible Hulk - The fight scenes.
Edge of Tomorrow - First 40 secs, this is good to find out what 30, 25, 20, 15, 10 Hz sounds/feels like in YOUR room.
Flight of the Phoenix - Sand storm scene.
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post #21 of 6319 Old 12-15-2016, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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The "lf adjust" is a cut only filter and is there to tailor the subwoofer's lowend response to the room gain of the room it is being installed into. With the "lf adjust" all the way up it will give you a flat response outdoors and with it all the way down it will give you a flat response is a small sealed room. Because subwoofers have more maximum output capability on the topend you gain headroom with the "lf adjust" turned down. I would start with the "lf adjust" turned all the way down, take a measurement and adjust from there until you have a nice flat response. In our 16'x18'x8' demo room we ended up with the "lf adjust" at 1/4 the way up.
Thanks for the very helpful reply; so it's there to adjust for differences in room gain that in turn depend on room size/construction/etc.? I erroneously thought the best thing is just to jack this low frequency knob up to max .

I somehow am having difficulty understanding the bold faced part. Would you please explain? Why would I gain headroom by turning DOWN gain? Thnx.

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post #22 of 6319 Old 12-15-2016, 01:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok Jeff upon further thought I think I understand now: what you meant is if (and only if) I could achieve good result with the gain of the ultra low frequency turned down, I would have left more output for ulf unused, in reserve, and therefore more available? Hence more headroom?

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Ok Jeff upon further thought I think I understand now: what you meant is if (and only if) I could achieve good result with the gain of the ultra low frequency turned down, I would have left more output for ulf unused, in reserve, and therefore more available? Hence more headroom?
It's because DSP eats up power like crazy.

If your situation is less taxing on the low end, the unused power will give you more headroom on the top end.
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post #24 of 6319 Old 12-17-2016, 08:32 PM
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Soon To Be Joining The JTR Club

I find having to remind myself that i'm an old man when i've decided to pull the trigger on a new audio component. I'm getting a S-1 to add to my SVS SB13-U and am pretty excited about it. The performance is exactly what i'm looking for as the SB13 although great for music, just didn't have the headroom i'm looking for in movies. Gaining 10db at 20Hz over my 13 is considerable and continues with the other low frequency's. Talking with Jeff has been very pleasant as he has taken time in his busy schedule to answer my emails quickly. Not sure how long the S1 will take getting to BC but you never know with customs. I'll report back once i'm doing the dance
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post #25 of 6319 Old 12-18-2016, 08:36 AM - Thread Starter
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I find having to remind myself that i'm an old man when i've decided to pull the trigger on a new audio component. I'm getting a S-1 to add to my SVS SB13-U and am pretty excited about it. The performance is exactly what i'm looking for as the SB13 although great for music, just didn't have the headroom i'm looking for in movies. Gaining 10db at 20Hz over my 13 is considerable and continues with the other low frequency's. Talking with Jeff has been very pleasant as he has taken time in his busy schedule to answer my emails quickly. Not sure how long the S1 will take getting to BC but you never know with customs. I'll report back once i'm doing the dance

To this I would say - YOLO! I too have recently realized that while my current subwoofs, largest one being the JL Audio's 12 inch driver, are more than good enough for music, actually even desirable since it reduces feedback to my turntable :-), part of my life is missing by not having an 18 incher.

What finish did you order? Please post report when your baby is there.
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Last edited by cannga; 12-18-2016 at 08:40 AM.
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post #26 of 6319 Old 12-18-2016, 08:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Caption this. A little subwoofer humor.


"So Jeff you think I should get two of these subwoofers?"





Regards, Can
My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound. (For CB IVa setup help, click HERE.)
Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
JTR Subwoofer Thread I don't always listen to subwoofers, but when I do, it's JTR :-).
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post #27 of 6319 Old 12-18-2016, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cannga View Post
To this I would say - YOLO! I too have recently realized that while my current subwoofs, largest one being the JL Audio's 12 inch driver, are more than good enough for music, actually even desirable since it reduces feedback to my turntable :-), part of my life is missing by not having an 18 incher.

What finish did you order? Please post report when your baby is there.
As i'm not trading up to the new SVS16's and getting full value on my 13, i'm eating that cost ($2300)so as much as i really wanted that red i see on the cap1400 in the other post, i opted for just the stock finish. Living in Canada that S1 will be costing me approx $3000. Although i have my 13 listed in local websites for sale, i think once i try two subs for the first time i may not want to sell it.
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post #28 of 6319 Old 12-18-2016, 10:33 AM
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I'll soon be a new owner of a 2017 118ht!


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post #29 of 6319 Old 12-18-2016, 04:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Hall of Fame - JTR Pictures


JTR Factory Outlet





Two 4000 ULF's





Bear Hug and Up the Stairs





Yes this is the founder & engineer.





RMK!'s JTR 215




What Jeff looks like when the idea of 4000 ULF came to him:


Regards, Can
My System & Theta Casablanca Mini-Review Uncontrolled passion for music, and sound. (For CB IVa setup help, click HERE.)
Interesting Audio Diagrams :-) & High-End Speaker Reviews
JTR Subwoofer Thread I don't always listen to subwoofers, but when I do, it's JTR :-).

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post #30 of 6319 Old 12-18-2016, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by metropol951 View Post
I'll soon be a new owner of a 2017 118ht!


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Cant wait to hear your impressions,,, what a smokin deal. What are you running now?
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