Dual 12" Subs vs Single 16"- Considering SVS - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 13 Old 01-17-2017, 07:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Dual 12" Subs vs Single 16"- Considering SVS

Not sure if im going with the SVS brand yet but building a 5.x.4 Atmos setup. I already purchased the Pioneer SC-99 and Pioneer Elite speakers all the way around, now looking for 1 or 2 subs that will fit my needs. This is going in my living room that is 20x20', but the living room is open to part of my kitchen and dining room which are 20x15 and 15x15. Looking for a sub config that will have the best bass slam impact. It will be used 65/35% movies/music. Budget is 1.5K and flexable. Would like to spend the least with the most slam/punch impact. Thanks.

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post #2 of 13 Old 01-17-2017, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolern View Post
Not sure if im going with the SVS brand yet but building a 5.x.4 Atmos setup. I already purchased the Pioneer SC-99 and Pioneer Elite speakers all the way around, now looking for 1 or 2 subs that will fit my needs. This is going in my living room that is 20x20', but the living room is open to part of my kitchen and dining room which are 20x15 and 15x15. Looking for a sub config that will have the best bass slam impact. It will be used 65/35% movies/music. Budget is 1.5K and flexable. Would like to spend the least with the most slam/punch impact. Thanks.
Okay are you wanting to go with the sealed versions or ported versions? Are you a music guy or more of a HT guy? Gamer? Which 12" SVS subs are you considering? And the 16"?

Cheers,

Phil
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post #3 of 13 Old 01-17-2017, 08:33 PM
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I would go with a jtr cap 118ht, which is within your current budget. Then plan to add a second one later she funds allow. You have a lot of space to fill and a pair of 12" subs won't suffice.

Rec Room>Vivitek 1080p projector w/100" screen/Hisense 65" 4K, Onkyo TXNR656, Fluance signature towers & center, AV5 sides, Loft 40 rears, RBH I-12/e x2, I-12 x2 subs. Living Room>Sammy 59" Plasma, Onkyo HTRC560, Klipsch KF28 L/R, KC25 center, Polk RC60i in-wall rears, SVS PB12NSD (x2) subs. PC set up> 27" LG IPS, Onkyo TXNR509, Primus P363's, JBL 550P sub. Master Bedroom>Samsung 42" LED, Pioneer VSX532, Denon 5 spkr set, Jamo J110 sub. Gaming> PS4 (x2), PS3, XBox One (x2), XBox 360

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post #4 of 13 Old 01-17-2017, 08:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolern View Post
Not sure if im going with the SVS brand yet but building a 5.x.4 Atmos setup. I already purchased the Pioneer SC-99 and Pioneer Elite speakers all the way around, now looking for 1 or 2 subs that will fit my needs. This is going in my living room that is 20x20', but the living room is open to part of my kitchen and dining room which are 20x15 and 15x15. Looking for a sub config that will have the best bass slam impact. It will be used 65/35% movies/music. Budget is 1.5K and flexable. Would like to spend the least with the most slam/punch impact. Thanks.
Okay are you wanting to go with the sealed versions or ported versions? Are you a music guy or more of a HT guy? Gamer? Which 12" SVS subs are you considering? And the 16"?

Cheers,

Phil
Due to my space and bass impact wanted I have read that ported will work better. Is that correct? Was thinking about dual PB2000, but then started looking at the PB16 Ultra, which would stretch my budget but still possible if I would get the results wanted. 65% movies/ 30% music/ 5% gaming.

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post #5 of 13 Old 01-17-2017, 08:54 PM - Thread Starter
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I would go with a jtr cap 118htr, which is within your current budget. Then plan to add a second one later she funds allow. You have a lot of space to fill and a pair of 12" subs won't suffice.
Reading up on that one now. Interesting!!!
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post #6 of 13 Old 01-17-2017, 09:08 PM
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Reading up on that one now. Interesting!!!
Two of the cap 118ht would be a couple hundred bucks or so over the price of a pb16-ultra, but would be well worth it.
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Rec Room>Vivitek 1080p projector w/100" screen/Hisense 65" 4K, Onkyo TXNR656, Fluance signature towers & center, AV5 sides, Loft 40 rears, RBH I-12/e x2, I-12 x2 subs. Living Room>Sammy 59" Plasma, Onkyo HTRC560, Klipsch KF28 L/R, KC25 center, Polk RC60i in-wall rears, SVS PB12NSD (x2) subs. PC set up> 27" LG IPS, Onkyo TXNR509, Primus P363's, JBL 550P sub. Master Bedroom>Samsung 42" LED, Pioneer VSX532, Denon 5 spkr set, Jamo J110 sub. Gaming> PS4 (x2), PS3, XBox One (x2), XBox 360
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post #7 of 13 Old 01-17-2017, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolern View Post
Due to my space and bass impact wanted I have read that ported will work better. Is that correct? Was thinking about dual PB2000, but then started looking at the PB16 Ultra, which would stretch my budget but still possible if I would get the results wanted.
Ported will certainly give you more output down low. I am more of a sealed guy myself. The reason being, my focus is on music listening first and foremost. That is not to say that ported subs can't be musical, because they, in fact, sure can. I just prefer the sealed design myself as I always have. Slam is NOT what I am after. After all, I reside in a small 1BR apartment. Is SVS the ONLY subs that you are considering? Mix has given you a very good recommendation. PSA has a new 18" sub coming out very soon. There is a pre-order going on with a special price. Here is a link:

https://www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/pre-order

Be sure to notice that there are both sealed and vented versions. Tom V. is one of the best period. Highly recommend that you, at the very least, chat with him on the PSA website OR give him a call. Tom is a stand-up type of guy and will shoot you straight. Best wishes!


Cheers,

Phil
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post #8 of 13 Old 01-17-2017, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Swolern View Post
Reading up on that one now. Interesting!!!
Two of the cap 118ht would be a couple hundred bucks or so over the price of a pb16-ultra, but would be well worth it.
Specs look amazing, but asthetics look like they are lacking, at least the pics on their website. Do they plan to dress up the cabinet any?
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post #9 of 13 Old 01-17-2017, 09:30 PM
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Specs look amazing, but asthetics look like they are lacking, at least the pics on their website. Do they plan to dress up the cabinet any?
JTR subs are more about substance than style. The standard finish is basic and certainly nowhere near the slick look of the pb16-ultra in piano black. JTR does offer premium finishes for an additional expense. You would have to check with Jeff on that.
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Rec Room>Vivitek 1080p projector w/100" screen/Hisense 65" 4K, Onkyo TXNR656, Fluance signature towers & center, AV5 sides, Loft 40 rears, RBH I-12/e x2, I-12 x2 subs. Living Room>Sammy 59" Plasma, Onkyo HTRC560, Klipsch KF28 L/R, KC25 center, Polk RC60i in-wall rears, SVS PB12NSD (x2) subs. PC set up> 27" LG IPS, Onkyo TXNR509, Primus P363's, JBL 550P sub. Master Bedroom>Samsung 42" LED, Pioneer VSX532, Denon 5 spkr set, Jamo J110 sub. Gaming> PS4 (x2), PS3, XBox One (x2), XBox 360
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post #10 of 13 Old 01-17-2017, 11:17 PM
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Can you do any diy? With that budget you could build a very potent milti sub setup that would best most any retail sub except those the level of the Pb16 U ,JTR 118ht or Seaton Submersive and maybe some of them.

Ported or sealed comes down to your goals. Do you want the lowest extention into the deep ULF bass with a tight sound that requires lots of drivers/power (sealed) or do you want maxim spl with less drivers and power required but extension limited to the port tune of the enclosure(usually between 15hz and 20hz sometimes a little deeper with corner loading). Sealed takes more drivers and power to reach the same spl as ported because of the natural roll off of the sealed alignment. Eq can help but that's where the more power comes in as boosting with eq eats amplifier power.

Your room is large including the connecting rooms(like mine) and I would recommend going ported and no less than dual ported 15"'s or 18"'s as it would require close to 4 sealed subs and double the power for the same output(but again with lower extension and less group delay which helps with integration and to some yields a tighter sound)

Diysoundgroup has both ported and sealed flat packs for 15's and 18's that only need to be glued together and then finished in your choice of finish be that Duratex/paint or fancy veneer. Parts Express has sealed flatpacks too as well as the drivers for the ported and sealed boxes at Diysoundgroup.
2 solid Diy options within your budget or just over would be (Prices are close estimates)

(Ported) 2 Diysundgroup ported 18" cubes ($520 w/shipping), 2 Dayton audio Rss460 drivers($520 free shipping) and a Behringer Inuke 6000Dsp ($400 free shipping from Parts express ) finish and needed accessories ($80) Total=$1520. Wired one 4ohm driver per channel

(Sealed) 4 Dayton audio 18" Ultimax flatpack bundles from Parts Express ($400 free shipping) Behringer Inuke 6000Dsp ($400 Free shipping Parts Express) finish and needed accessories ($125) Total=$2125 Wired each drivers dual voice coils in series then 2 drivers in series for a final load of 8ohms per channel ( about 700 watts RMS per driver) then as funds allow you could add another Inuke 6000dsp and almost double the power (about 1050 watts per driver) by running one driver per channel at 4ohms.

Inuke will need fan mod to be quiet if it will be in the room with you but its easy and there are many threads showing how here on AVS,

Now if you cant Diy 2 of the (Ported) JTR 118ht's ( one now and a second later) or a (sealed) master and slave pair from Seaton sound would be my recommend. Either choice would let you try one and add another as needed or as funds become available. Both are close to your budget and regarded as some of the very best outside of the Diy options.

Its not that I don't like SVS or think they make great subs, they do. Its just that you have a good budget and can look at what I consider better BOOM for your dollar options like Diy or JTR/Seaton sound for that kind of money. I don't recall anyone who has gone with either of the Diy/JTR/Seaton offerings that weren't elated with the performance.

A great sub system can last through several speaker/receiver upgrades so go for broke now on the subs and enjoy the fact you did it right for years to come, possibly for life.
No matter what path you choose the main thing I would stress after countless upgrades to my own sub system is to push your budget now and do it right the first time as I have spent way more upgrading than I would have if I had just bought more than I thought I need from the start. Big rooms take BIG bass and nobody I know of ever regretted going overkill when it comes to the subs. What you don't want is to be running at 85%-100% of your subs performance all the time to get the impact you want. Headroom is your friend.

Recap:

Research.
Choose a path. Sealed or ported/ Diy or retail.
Go overkill/ More than you think you need.
Enjoy ultimate performance from a sub system that never breaks a sweat even when pushed to Reference plus volume and cruises along for many years to come with no desire to upgrade.

I'm no expert. Just my thought's on the subject. Good luck. Your welcome to PM me for more DIY info if you want. I have built several Diy subs now and feel confident I can help you get the impact you are looking for if you can Diy.
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Panasonic PT-AE4000 100" 16:9 125" 2.35:1 - Xbox One S - Philips BDP7501 UHD
Marantz av7702 - 2 Crown Xls 2000 - 1 Crown Xls 1500 - 1 Qsc rmx 850 - 2 Inuke 3000dsp -
Speakers= 5.1.4 Atmos NHT's} 2 _ 2.9's - 2 _ Sb 3's - 1_ Ac-2
Subs= 1 Si HT18 D2 Stonehenge - Full Marty UM18-22 - 2 Buttkicker LFE's -

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post #11 of 13 Old 01-18-2017, 07:17 AM
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Assuming you have at least an 8' ceiling, that's a minimum 7,400 cubic feet, which is a huge space to pressurize with bass, and that requires multiple, powerful, and definitely much larger than 12" subwoofers. I would go with no less than two 18" ported subs in your space.

I can tell that aesthetics are important to you, but unfortunately very large and powerful subs are also much more expensive to finish in wood veneer or other higher quality paint options that you might prefer.

My recommendation would be to save up a little longer and invest in a pair of quality subwoofers from Power Sound Audio or JTR. JTR does have extra finishes available for around $300 per sub last I checked.

I love my pair of 18" Power Sound Audio V1800, and they are releasing a more powerful 18" driver next month. If you can accommodate the size of a larger sub, the upcoming V3601 at its preorder pricing of $1,999 is a bargain for such a monster sub.

PSA subs have a high quality satin black finish that I love, and doesn't reflect light. 99% of larger, home theater oriented subs come standard with a fairly flat black finish, because it's economical when taking into account the amount of surface area needed to finish on such a large box, and because black absorbs the most light in a theater environment.

Without an unlimited budget, some compromises will have to be made with regards to either subwoofer output or aesthetics. Best of luck!
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post #12 of 13 Old 01-18-2017, 07:34 AM
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I would go dual Cap 118HT or PSA V1801. PSA looks a little better imo but JTR can do premium veneers for a upcharge. It all comes down to do you want great performance with ok looks for a great price, or ok performance and great looks for a great price, or great performance and looks for lots more money?
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post #13 of 13 Old 01-22-2017, 06:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Swolern View Post
This is going in my living room that is 20x20', but the living room is open to part of my kitchen and dining room which are 20x15 and 15x15. Looking for a sub config that will have the best bass slam impact. It will be used 65/35% movies/music. Budget is 1.5K and flexible. Would like to spend the least with the most slam/punch impact. Thanks.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MIX_MASTER_ICE;4
9980961
You have a lot of space to fill and a pair of 12" subs won't suffice.
Well, 12's will struggle in the traditional HT alignment. What about a pro style monster tapper horn? In your living room? LOL!

So, it looks like you are in the Houston area? Look at this on craigslist: https://houston.craigslist.org/ele/5932410123.html

Its a MONSTER sub that kills! Look at the numbers: http://www.data-bass.com/data?page=system&id=4
http://www.danleysoundlabs.com/produ.../dts10/#slide1

Its just massive...24 cu ft!

http://www.avsforum.com/photopost/da..._IMG_0609.jpeg
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z...3/DSC_8526.jpg
http://cdn.avsforum.com/6/67/67b3b5e...ach163063.jpeg
http://cdn.avsforum.com/3/32/32e8592...ach163064.jpeg

OK, my post was more for novelty....I know very few would put one of these in their living room. Its pretty narrow but still...it makes 18's look small. LOL!

You should go for a single ported 18" for now.....then another later. here is a post with some of JTR's custom finishes: Which subwoofer(s) up to 1600$ ?

Last edited by WLDock; 01-22-2017 at 07:08 AM.
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