Purchased PC-2000 (first real sub) 11/2016 and have really been enjoying it even in my larger 3100ft3 room. That LFE is addicting! I don't usually come close to playing at reference levels though. I run it hot 6 db from initial calibration trim level. Unfortunately I don't have room for duals which would be ideal. I can take advantage of the SVS upgrade until 11/2017. Going to the PC12 Plus would only be about $340 plus return shipping on PC-2000. The ultra is just going to be too big. I'm in no rush to upgrade but my question is if I chose to do so in the upcoming year would I really notice much improvement since I'm not really pushing the PC-2000? The PC12 Plus is getting a little dated so if I did anything I would probably wait until closer to the end of my year to see if anything new comes out. Thanks.
Since you aren't pushing the PC-2000 overly hard, I wouldn't move up to the PC12-Plus, which has about 2-3dB more output potential than the PC-2000. I would bump the PC-2000 up 2dB and see how that works. Keep an eye on the limiter light on the back during intense LFE. If it's not flashing all the time, then you should be fine.
I guess I could potentially do dual pc-2000s if I used them as speaker stands. What do you think of that option vs single pc12-plus or ultra (which I think is just too big still). See pic. Speaker height would obviously have to be higher.
I honestly don't think you would notice the difference in height between the Plus and the Ultra that much. And, in the one port tune, the Ultra would have lower extension, as well as more SPL, than the Plus. It is the lower extension I would be seeking if I were you. As you say, low bass is addictive. If it helps, I have had all three subs in question, if you count the PC12-NSD as roughly equivalent to the PC2000. I upgraded from that to the PC12 Plus, then duals, then PC13 Ultras... Well, you get the idea.
You really won't notice the height difference after a while, and I might consider pulling the speakers forward a little anyway, to get them just clear of the sides of that cabinet. You might be getting some comb filtering from their close proximity to the cabinet, as they are now. I hope you don't mind that suggestion. With them forward, the relative height of the sub will be reduced.
A second PC2000 would also be a good way to go, if you have a good location for another sub. Perhaps somewhere behind the listening position, or off to the side? I would be much less inclined to simply add a second sub on that front wall, though. The two subs might be too close together to help very much with frequency response. That is the biggest reason to have duals. And, the left hand sub would get much less boundary gain, being next to the opening, than the right hand sub does in the corner.
It's always a close call--a more powerful sub, or dual subs. I really like the idea of dual subs, if you have a good second location. But, being able to spread the subs out, ideally on opposing walls is important. Or, you could go bigger now, with the plan to possibly add a second sub somewhere down the road. Unfortunately, there is no known cure for this bass addiction.
Thanks Mike. You always seem to have very thoughtful responses. I had wondered if the benefit of a second sub to the left of the front L speaker would be minimized due to lack of room gain and being near an opening. Unfortunately there really is no other acceptable place for second sub. It would just be too visible. Certainly not that would meet WAF and to be honest I don't think it would be ok with me. So duals may be risky. Maybe starting with pc12-plus sometime later this year then consider moving to ultra after that would be more palatable. PC-2000 to ultra is 13" which I don't think would go over well.
You are very welcome, and I appreciate the compliment! That more gradual progression might also give you a better opportunity to decide how much more you really want.
Spoke with SVS and they also felt there may be limited effectiveness of second PC-2000 due to the limited placement option next to opening. Of the 2 choices the recommendation was for the PC12-Plus unless I felt I was having issues with room acoustics which I don't feel I am. They also had concern about speakers "walking" off PC-2000 but I would think some blu-tac would prevent that. Little surprised about shipping costs though considering I'm very close to their warehouse. Only $30 to send back PC-2000 but $130 for PC12-Plus. Oh well. So at some point in the coming months will need to break the news to my wife that yet another sub swap will be taking place. Since August I went through RSL speedwoofer 10S twice both having early production run problems, then PB-1000, then PC-2000. She couldn't care less about our HT stuff other than how much it will cost or look. Going to wait a few months probably. Well at least my 7 year son enjoys it with me (we watch a lot of star wars) and working on the 3 year old twin boys. Damn you AVS forum for spending my money.
I was playing around with some good low bass scenes last night. I was alone the living room and my wife was across the house in the kitchen. I played the Kylo Ren-Rey force interrogation scene from Force Awakens which has a lot of infra sonic sound but otherwise a relative quiet scene. I bumped the sub trim to 8db hot (which is still below 0 at -1) and only had the volume at a moderate level. Definitely a lot of tactile bass in the living room. Soon afterward my wife came in wondering why the kitchen was shaking asking if our washing machine in the basement could have been wobbling out of control or something. I explained what the source was which generated a confused look on her face. So my point is despite my largeish room the PB-2000 does quite well and I then question the need to change anything. I think it's too late though - I'm already fixated on upgrading.
PC12+ has been delivered! May only have a little time to setup tonight then going out of town till Sunday night so may have to wait till next week to play.
there is a pretty good difference between the PC2000 and PC12+....I went from dual PC2K's to dual PC12+ definitely got more room shake with the Plus.... I enjoyed 16hz mode the most...20hz was loudest , but also seemed to have some port noise when cranked up....Sealed just made me think "where did my subs go??".....But even with the Plus , I felt I was running out of headroom...No fun hearing odd noises during a bass heavy scene....So I ended up getting some PSA V1500's , and well , the only odd noises I hear now are the walls flexing! ....... Soooo , I have a couple PC12+ for sale But I do hope that PC12+ gives you what you were looking for!
Set it up late last night so didn't have much time to test or play at louder volumes as my family was all asleep. I again set sub trim 8dB hot so I was comparing similar settings to PC-2000. In my brief time at low volumes all I can say is that output seemed similar but cleaner which at times almost made it seem like less output but probably just need to adjust to a little less bloat. There was some additional ultra low frequency vibrations that could be felt in a test scene from Force Awakens (Kylo-Rey force interrogation) I'm assuming due to the better extension. So all as expected. Will play over the coming weeks and hopefully get a chance to play at higher volumes. This is in 16Hz mode. Installed soundpath feet and left baseplate on. Also I really like having a digital amp with such precise control over gain. Nice to know exactly where you have it set for future tinkering. PC-2000 technically also has digital controls but with a regular rotary knob so just not as easy.
It will sound alot better the more hours and volume you put into it....I wasnt too big a fan of the digital knob , seemed like I was constantly scrolling to get to the setting I wanted , and then get kind of stuck going back and forth in a setting... Its probably really good for someone who wants to get in there and really tinker with settings , Im just kinda of a Gain , room size , LFE type person....
I still haven't had nearly enough time to listen to the pc12+ nor have I had the house to myself to crank up the volume. So as expected it's hard to notice any output difference at low to moderate volumes relative to the pc-2000. I will say that it sounds different. I was quite surprised at how much cleaner the bass seems as I thought the pc-2000 was very good and honestly didn't think I had the ears to notice. I need to increase my bass movie collection but I've tried listening to select scenes from movies such as force awakens, Star Trek, interstellar, iron man. By memory and without doing an A/B compare to pc-2000 some scenes have more tactile feel (some of which likely due to the better extension) and volume while other scenes actually seem to have less. Others can likely give a better answer but my thought is that the cleaner sound may seem like less output in certain circumstances. Also I'm wondering that due to having it in 16hz mode the response curve is not as flat at the low end? On that note it would be nice to do an A/B compare of 16hz and 20hz tunes. I know ideally Audyssey needs to be re-run but that is really a pain and makes it harder to do comparisons back to back. Is there any utility to switching back and forth between tunes to compare without re-running Audyssey? Will post back more impressions as I get time. Haven't initiated return of pc-2000 yet but definitely plan to. Even if I never take advantage of the higher output I do like the sound better.
IMO you don't need to rerun Audyssey. But I don't use any room correction so..............
If you feel that Audyssey might be compromising the results, you can always turn it off and then compare on a level field.
IME I can't tell a difference between 16 and 20hz modes. I just leave it in 16hz mode because my room is small enough that I don't need whatever extra output there might be in 20hz mode and because- why not.
Before and after pics for those interested in size difference. The PC12+ has the soundpath feet installed which adds ~1.5 inches. If I ever upgraded to the ultra it's another 7" so would be a good bit taller than speaker and in my view look a little out of place. I think the PC12+ is going to fit my needs nicely but you never know...
So I realized that if you optionally install the soundpath feet without the baseplate (SVS says this is fine if not on high pile carpet) you can shave almost 3" off the height. That makes the ultra only 4" taller from current height of my PC12+ and therefore probably wouldn't be a very noticeable change. Now I really have no need for it after spending a week with the PC12+ but...
Yes I was happy with the trade up. The PC12+ doesn't have a huge output advantage over the PC2000 but it certainly has some most notable in the sub 20Hz range when in the 16hz tune. That made HT usage even more enjoyable. Also overall PC12+ is a cleaner more articulate sub. For more even frequency response I added a second PC12+ recently. I'm very happy with the results. I also have really liked having a digital gain control. With duals it often takes lots of experimenting with placement and re-running calibration. Knowing where I have precisely set gain in various positions has been very valuable. So for me dual PC12+ works very well and done with upgrades for hopefully many years. That being said the PC12+ is not nearly as good a value as some of the other ID brands such as Hsu or PSA. The cylinder form factor works for our room better though and I was able to take advantage of the SVS trade up policy without having to sell the PC-2000 privately. For a price between the 2 SVS subs and performance slightly better than the PC12+ at least for mid bass I would look at the PSA 15V or Hsu VTF-3 MK5 if they work dimension wise.
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