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New pb2000-I'm not getting best from it

18K views 62 replies 19 participants last post by  austin2192 
#1 ·
Hi all,
Just got myself a svs pb2000 a few days ago but don't think I'm getting the best from it.
I got it mainly for films, it's doing ok but I expected more I think....
My room is 4m x 3.5m.
Sub is in the corner of room on tv wall between wall and 'L' part of our sofa.
I have a denon avr 1912 and monitor audio bx2's all round with bronze centre.
Iv ran audyssey measuring 6 points all within 2ft of main listening position.
I have sub set up with volume- around 1oclock, set to lfe and 0 degrees.
On the denon I have bass set to 120hz, using lfe only not life and main.
Speakers small and crossover for all speakers at 80Hz
Music sounds awesome, especially rnb and rap music but I'm missing the 'feel' of bass in films.
What else can I try???
Dan
 
#2 · (Edited)
I just got the same sub four days ago! I set it on my sofa and did the sub crawl to see where it sounded the best out of only three places I could place it. I decided to place it in the front on the wall close to tv because I liked it wired better than wireless in the other two spots. I did the same as you.. LFE, 0 Phase, around 1-2 o'clock on the gain.. then ran the MCAAC Pro on the Pioneer Elite AVR. It set my fronts as LARGE and center, sides, and rears as SMALL so I set the fronts back to SMALL. The crossover set at 100hz and -9db on the AVR so I played several songs at around -26db volume. I ended up setting it to -4db on the AVR. After 20-30 minutes of listening it seemed to have sounded better. Did you do a "sub crawl"? Is yours connected via sub cable or wireless? I'm still deciding how much I like it for what it cost and for how big it is in my living room. I believe your issue must be placement. There's a scene in "Capt America: Civil War" where Bucky is being chased on foot and knocks a guy off of a motorcycle and takes the bike. It gets so low my laundry room door vibrates or "flutters" like crazy and it's about 15 feet from the sub!
 

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#3 ·
Thanks falconsfan for your input.
I'm thinking the same that this sub costs a lot for me and was expecting more for my money I suppose.
Can I ask is it best to use mode 'multi channel stereo' for films??
I'm unfortunately un able to place it anywhere else other than where it is due to lack of space.
Iv done the same as you and had to adjust my fronts from large to small, and I think the avr set the sub to -7db so I turned it up to -2. I will try upload a photo to show I have little other options in terms of position...
Maybe I will try re run audyssey with a tad more volume on the sub and then turn it up again on the avr.
Not sure what else to try???...
 

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#4 ·
Thanks falconsfan for your input.

Not sure what else to try???...
You can try adjusting the phase. If possible, have someone turn the phase knob SLOWLY while listening to something that you think should have more bass than it does. See if changing the phase makes this missing bass "appear". I know you said music sounds fine, soo, you can try using a signal generator (REW has one) at specific frequencies (30Hz, 40Hz, etc).
As a side note, I have found that changing the phase may improve output at one frequency but reduce it at another frequency, so there may be a balance or trade off, but you can change that all you want if it makes it sound better to you.

http://www.jamo.com/faq/?id=8

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/setting-subwoofer-phase-easy-way#PyLcsdgeaTZCUUjq.97

"The idea is, go with the setting that makes this tone the loudest, because at that setting the sub and speakers are most in-phase."

Of course if you're only missing down low, the phase might be fine, so that's just something to try. It seems like phase changes have a bigger effect around the XO frequency.

Have you tried walking around the room to see if the bass gets any better? You might be in a null due to room modes. If so, no matter what you do you'll be missing bass in that seating position, only thing to do then is move your seats.
 
#6 ·
Yea was an upgrade!
I recently up graded all speakers and sub from a wharfedale dx-1 sub and satellite speaker package.
My old wharfedale was an 8" sub with 2 rear firing ports and to be honest didn't sound A million miles different to the new svs. I will try the sub crawl this weekend, maybe I can convince the wife it will be better to the right of the front right speaker if it sounds better there.... it's kind of the only other place it can go
 
#10 ·
I have tried dynamic sound on and off, it's off at the moment.
Im pretty sure it's a placement issue.
Here is the whole room.... it is 6m long but one end is dining area.
Tv unit is only 45cm deep, sub with grill is 67cm deep so not sure even to right of tv unit is an option....
 

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#12 ·
I have tried dynamic sound on and off, it's off at the moment.
Im pretty sure it's a placement issue.
Here is the whole room.... it is 6m long but one end is dining area.
Tv unit is only 45cm deep, sub with grill is 67cm deep so not sure even to right of tv unit is an option....
The biggest gain you should be getting from the PB is under 30hz (your old sub had no output under 30hz). Seating up against a wall is almost always going to cause problems. You could be sitting in a massive null where you're not getting any response under 30 or 40hz, which could be why music sounds good but some movies with lower bass do not.
 
#18 · (Edited)
It doesn't need to be facing you and sticking out. Place it just as it sits now to the right of the right speaker. looks like you have enough wall room. By the looks of things now you sit right in the middle of the room which could be a big null. Make sure to re run your Audyssey after moving it.
 
#16 ·
2 oclock should be ok but SVS wants it turned all the way clockwise to the LFE setting.

Just try a different placement; it may make no difference and end up right where it is now.

An SPL meter would be helpful to make sure you didn't have the same problem I had, (ie. the AVR set the volume on the sub 10db less than all other speakers).
 
#19 ·
Without seeing a measured room response chart one can only speculate, but it's possible that the reflected wave from the dining area wall is causing a VLF null in the LP area. I'd try moving the sub to the right side of the TV.
 
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#20 · (Edited)
Just a wild a-- guess, but the BX2s only have 6.5" woofers ... maybe 80 Hz is too low a cross over for them.

Maybe try the bass cross over on the AVR at 100 Hz. Let the SVS sub help out more with the low bass range. If you have test tones & sweeping tones, favorite test tracks of music, you may start hearing more the bass you feel is lacking.

[edit] Addendum: ensure they are set to "small" in the AVR to enable bass management, that is, have the AVR send all content < bass cross over to the sub.
 
#21 ·
To be honest Munich bx2 speakers go down to 37hz and to be honest they are performing superb.
Just them alone in pure direct mode sounds great for music
Another question I have... if I try a couple of different positions for sub tomorrow, do I have to run audyssey every time I move it??
 
#24 ·
I would say placement is definitely an issue. Also, you should have your sub crossover at 100-120Hz and not 80 and make sure all your speakers are set to small. I would almost bet you would feel it a lot more if you could place the sub in that corner behind your sofa.
 
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#25 ·
When you try it in a different spot you should definitely run your calibration again. Make sure the sub is turned to LFE and the volume knob is at 2 o'clock. I think part of the problem is you are too close to the sub. You are just like me trying to make your living room sound the best you can with limited placement for the sub. I'm starting to think that sub needs to be 15 to 20 feet away from the MLP! I don't know...
 
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#26 ·
Speaker manufacturer marketing specs do not necessarily coincide with real world testing. I'd bet they go down to 37 Hz with a huff and a puff and little oomph effort, but can they reproduce ULF down that low during sustained performance? Likely not.

That doesn't mean they're bad speakers, au contraire, I saw a review or two online that gave them good marks. They're just not capable of moving air at that frequency. Let the sub, which is the pro at producing sound < 200 Hz, handle that end so the main speakers can focus on higher freqs they're good at. ;)
 
#31 ·
Here is measurements for BX2 and Brent Butterworth`s comments;

The Bronze BX2 left/right minispeaker measures extremely well. Its on-axis response is largely flat, and its off-axis response is one of the best I've seen. In fact, the off-axis response curves are almost identical to the on-axis curve, just decreasing in level as you move further off-axis. Bass response is excellent for such a small speaker, with usable output down to 40 Hz; one could get fairly satisfying sound from these without a subwoofer. The bass-limit measurements give a more realistic picture of the speakers' bass response - which, despite these caveats, remains impressive.

http://www.soundandvision.com/content/test-report-monitor-audio-bronze-bx-speaker-system-page-4

But looking at the pictures i wouldn`t put Bronze`s that near wall. Hell even MA doesn`t recommend it. They are front ported but still i can`t imagine it sounding best that near wall. And the center speaker should be on the front line of that tv-cabinet with some acoustic isolation pads / foam pads to decouple it from the cabinet.
 
#27 ·
remember, don't move the sub 5 times trying to find the right spot ,
do the subwoofer crawl, once!

try this experiment
when the bass is going, slowly walk around the house, it will sound better in one place and you will barley hear it in another, sometimes even one step will make a difference.

this is when proper placement, determined by the sub crawl would put your listening area in the sweet spot (subject to placement options of course)
 
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#28 · (Edited)
On the denon I have bass set to 120hz, using lfe only not life and main.
Speakers small and crossover for all speakers at 80Hz
If you mean the LFE is set at 120hz and all speakers crossovers are at 80Hz in the receiver, this is good. You want to use all your available movie LFE content for full affects which is 120hz.



Music sounds awesome, especially rnb and rap music but I'm missing the 'feel' of bass in films.
What else can I try???
Dan
I bet it does! Those Monitor Audio BX2 are some good speakers. I have audition them many times and they sound very good for music playback.


I'm thinking the same that this sub costs a lot for me and was expecting more for my money I suppose.
Don't feel bad, your not the only one that falls for all the SVS hype because of all the SVS fan boys recommending them. I see people on here recommending them like broken records and some don't even own one.
Then i read all the disappointment like you and others because they thought this big moster sub was going to blow them out of the room because of all the exaggerated hype.
What i found out is many people upgrading from big manufactures subwoofers to SVS subs are disappointed because SVS subwoofers have a very flat frequency response with little EQ. Plus they don't look to have much top end dynamics 30-40hz which most people using store bought subwoofers are use to. Yeah they have more lower response under 20hz, but your average joe watching movies or listening to music in there living room don't even use anything below 20hz at any reasonable volume settings.

I have nothing against SVS subwoofers. There top end models are very nice. But as for the SB-1000 PB-1000 SB-2000 and PB-2000 I am sure there are better sounding subwoofers in the same price range or even less.

Then you hear "well" you have to do a sub crawl now. It's not going to sound the same as your manufacture sub in the same place! That's odd! When i replaced my SVS with the RSL speedwoofer 10s and put it in the exact same place. ran Audyssey again, it flat out sounded much better and had much more output with a lessor gain setting. It was such a improvement that my brother and i just looked at each other and started laughing. We both couldn't believe what we were hearing. Even my wife who hates subwoofers thought it sounded much better.

So what's the purpose in doing a sub crawl in a living room with a subwoofer as big as a treasure chest? How many people are going to actually re arrange there whole living room just so they can put this monster sub box where it sounds best? No one with a wife, and most likely you won't either.

There are many other good subwoofers on the market that will sound great in a less then perfect spot. Like the HSU or Rythmik because of there tune ability for best sound. Especially in the $700.00 and less price range subwoofers. Plus it's not this huge box you have to stare at in your living room or lug all around the place.This is great for some people, but not all.

I am sure glad i was able to unbox my RSL. Run audyssey a few times to dial the gain in, bump up the avr trim a few DB and sit back and enjoy the bass without being disappointed in my purchase. It's been 7 weeks now and i haven't even touch a setting. It's great as is.

Yeah for the people that are blessed in having a theater room, then who cares what the subwoofer looks like or where it sits! This doesn't apply to living room set ups.

I went last weekend and audition many subwoofers. I wanted to hear some high end subwoofers and compare as many as i could plus audition dolby atmos.
I can tell you one thing, if you want to hear an awesome subwoofer go listen to a JL Audio E series 110 or 112. Anyone that says a small compact subwoofer can't sound good is flat wrong.




Can I ask is it best to use mode 'multi channel stereo' for films??
No, you do not want to use multi channel stereo for movies. You want to use your source output with Audyssey on, DRC off, Dynamic volume off and Dynamic EQ on for best Dynamic's and best bass during movies.

In fact you never did say what your source is for movies? Blu-ray i hope? What source are you using for your movie testing?


I'm unfortunately un able to place it anywhere else other than where it is due to lack of space.
bingo! Maybe it's time to get a different subwoofer or 2 smaller ones.

I'm not saying the sub is the problem, hopefully it's the location. However, there are better options out there for a similar price.
There sure is!

What are your crossover setting for all the speakers?
He listed them on the 1st post. looks like 80hz on the speakers and 120hz on the LFE.



Last time I ran Audyssey on my AVR 1912 it set the sub at -10 when I checked with an SPL meter while the other 5 speakers were spot on.
This happens with my system as well when i run Audyssey. Doesn't effect my dynamics or my subwoofer output during playback. Most likely has something to do with room gain for the subwoofer. Not 100% sure. I have read this is normal with some systems and rooms.


Another question I have... if I try a couple of different positions for sub tomorrow, do I have to run audyssey every time I move it??
yes you do for best results.

I think for people buying a subwoofer for there living room area need to invest in REW and a DSP and learn what it can do. I read this all the time on here and now think it's probably a very good investment. I am going to try it myself.
 
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#29 ·
On my avr no matter what source I choose e.g TV, BD etc etc it then shows MCH stereo! If I press on avr remote movie twice it gives me options of different sound modes.... none of which are 'source output' but more like MCH stereo, TV stereo, dts cinema etc etc.
Iv always kept it on MCH stereo, is there a better option???
Also if I'm honest, for films I use my Kodi box that's connected to tv via hdmi. Will I be missing low frequencies because of this aswell??
 
#32 ·
I have the same AVR as you.

The column of buttons next to the number pad, on the right, from top to bottom are labeled MOVIE then MUSIC then GAME and lastly DIRECT.

Watching TV/Bluray/Roku I press the MOVIE button and it gives you a selection of modes.

If the input signal through the HDMI is not Digital you will get choices like Stereo, a couple of Dolby Pro Logic choices, a DTS choice, Multi Channel Stereo and lastly Mono Movie.

If the input signal through the HDMI is Digital you will get Stereo, Dolby Digital, sometimes Dolby True HD, DTS, Multi Channel Stereo, Mono Movie and Virtual.

BluRays will offer more choices of different Dolby Digital or DTS Digital "flavors" and sometimes on Roku you'll see DDD on the AVR front panel.

I always choose Dolby Pro Logic if the source is not digital and Dolby Digital if it is Digital but never ever Multi Channel Stereo as it sounds horrible.

If you select Dolby Pro Logic or Dolby Digital the AVR always will start with those, (depending on whether the signal is digital sound or not), which is what you want.

If you always select Multi Channel stereo manually the AVR defaults to that when turned on.

You don't want that.

I see the Kodi Box you refer to is an "illegal" set top box and I have no experience with them to be honest; I use Comcast.

So, for all I know, a Kodi Box might never give you digital sound, just not sure.

As a reference source for you I'd use a BluRay player when seeing if your sub really works...or cable.

Maybe you're not in the US as everything I read about Kodi boxes is from the UK.
 
#30 ·
I just got my PB 2000 a few days ago but haven't had a ton of time to play with it. Bass is definetely pumping out, but I'm far more curious to see what this will do for movies for me. Watching Cloverfield will help me decide that.

I did Audyssey which set my sub to -7.5. I spoke to SVS and he said if I'm not liking the output to put the trim to 0db in my AVR. He then said, which I'm not sure is correct, to change the gain on the sub higher if I want more output. I was under the assumption to leave the gain knob alone after calibration is done. I know the OP of this thread is wondering if a different sub would be an option, and I was previously told to get the HSU VTF3-MK5 if I could extend my budget. What I'm curious, and maybe for the OPs information as well, if you're listening to movies say, around -15 to -18 db, would the extra output of the HSU even come into play? They play equally as low I believe.
 
#35 ·
I did Audyssey which set my sub to -7.5. I spoke to SVS and he said if I'm not liking the output to put the trim to 0db in my AVR. He then said, which I'm not sure is correct, to change the gain on the sub higher if I want more output. I was under the assumption to leave the gain knob alone after calibration is done.
When i had my SVS sub, SVS told me the same thing. turn the gain up on the subwoofer if you want more output after Audyssey. I can't recall the reason why they recommend this?
Members here on AVS will tell you to only turn up the subwoofer with the sub trim in the AVR as long as you stay under 0. don't go into the + settings? personally i don't think it makes a difference. I have tried both with the same end results.

I know the OP of this thread is wondering if a different sub would be an option, and I was previously told to get the HSU VTF3-MK5 if I could extend my budget. What I'm curious, and maybe for the OPs information as well, if you're listening to movies say, around -15 to -18 db, would the extra output of the HSU even come into play? They play equally as low I believe.
Personally i would have went with the HSU solo on the fact it's tunable. Looks like it has more output according to the CEA 2010 ratings so you should see a difference. I have never seen a thread where someone was disappointed with the HSU. Even the HSU VTF-2 MK5 at $604.00 shipped looks good! If i had a larger room like you guys have this would be my pick as a novice.
 
#34 ·
Thanks everyone or all your help!
Thankfully all is sorted!
An extra thanks goes to GajCA
Can't believe my problem has been the sound option on my avr!
Just got in from work and changed my setting to pro logic.
To test it out I just watched the train crash scene in film super 8 on level -15db....
WOW!! Sofa was shaking, lounge door was shaking and I could finally 'feel' the impacts!!
I can't stop smiling now, I'm so chuffed!
No sub crawl needed, I'm very happy.
Thanks all again for your advice tho, all much appreciated
 
#36 · (Edited)
I have to admit myself, I'm still not so sure I'm impressed with the PB 2000 (not for the size and for what it cost). But I've only had it hooked up for four days. Don't get me wrong, for movies it's pretty awesome but I listen to a lot of music and sometimes I can't really hear or feel the bass like I should with that big of a sub woofer. My smaller ML Dynamo 500 may sound better for music..?? Why?
 

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#39 ·
Your ML sub has specs down to 29 hz and as I can't find a frequency response chart for it anywhere I'm going to guess it has a big hump in the mid 30hz range that this frequency response curve for the PB2000 does not show at all.

Most music does not play much below 30hz or so and I bump in a sub's 30-40hz range can give the impression of more bass.

You can see the chart on the SVS site but the frequency response is quite flat with it starting to tail down around 23hz or so.



My AVR has a Pure Direct function for stereo and 2.1 where I can set an entirely different sub crossover for music in 2 channel direct than in 5.1.

For music you might actually fine that lowering the crossover on the sub might be more to your liking.

For music the sub SHOULD actually disappear and not draw attention to itself IMHO.
 
#42 ·
RKSKYDANCER,

I'm starting to think I may have to give that speedwoofer a try. When they get a new shipment I may just order one and compare it so the one that sounds the best I will keep amd send other one back. Based on the specs and size and based on reviews it's hard for me to believe that the speedwoofer will out perform the PB 2000. But I'm I may have to test that theory.
 
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#46 · (Edited)
Falconfan71,
No one said the RSL speedwoofer 10s at 16" x 15" x 17, 350 watt is going to OUT PERFORM a 12" 20" x 17" x 23, 500 watt subwoofer.
It's not possible. "but" as you know your definitely not excited or impressed with your purchase. Couple of things come to mind.

1st- you have limited space to properly place such a monster size subwoofer because it's your living room. So doing a sub crawl and finding the best spot is most likely not a option. Where it needs to go you most likely won't want to put it there. You made that clear before even buying a new subwoofer. You were hoping to just place it where your ML 500 was and be done with it.

2nd- You liked how your ML500 sounded but wanted to improve on more output (bass) if i am not mistaken? I had a ML700 before i bought my SVS SB-1000 3 years ago. SVS subwoofers have a very flat frequency response. It takes some getting use to & placement is very important with a flat lined subwoofer like SVS. This is why i told you good luck with the SVS when you decided to buy it over the HSU and others. You thought i didn't like SVS. Remember?
I just knew that you buying the PB-1000 or 2000 that all the SVS fan boys were telling you to buy, setting it where your ML500 was and it sounding $700.00 better was next to zip of happening! I read many threads here where people are not happy with there purchase of a PB-1000 or 2000 or even the SB12-NSD you see recommended a lot around here.

3rd- SVS subwoofers, As good as they are, are not for everyone. SVS ported subwoofers up thru the PB-2000 are not well known as good musical subwoofers! You play a lot of music. You have no adjustments in the PB-1000 or 2000 like the ultra series does. Subwoofer's like Rythmik and JL audio and HSU do. My RSL speedwoofer 10s is much better with music then my SVS SB-1000 ever was. The RSL 10s made my SVS sound bloated. Not the other way around. I just got back from auditioning a JL audio E112 and other high end subwoofers to compare the 2 subwoofers to.

4th- In my opinion the HSU VTF-2MK5 or 2 RSL speedwoofer 10s at about the same price or lower then the SVS would have satisfied you more then the PB-2000.
Other on here beg to differ with there opinion. That's fine with me. I am not the one unhappy with my purchase and I am enjoying my system everyday until i decide on the next big upgrade.

5th- There are a lot of SVS fan boys on this site and they can persuade you in buying something that doesn't work for you. It's easy to sit behind a computer all day and click on (help me decide threads) and recommend $800.00 chest size subwoofers that maybe they wish they had or it works for them so it must be good for you! Right? When there are many subwoofers out there better suited for you.

Only you can decide your requirements and what's going to work for you. Buying a couple of RSL speedwoofers and setting them up just might surprise you! There in stock now.

Or you do what bear123 mentioned. You can always get REW and a DSP with mic and make the PB-2000 sound better. It will only cost you another $300.00 and a lap top. Or buy a AVR with Audyssey MultEQ XT32 so it will EQ the subwoofer.

When a vastly superior sub like the PB2000, in comparison to small retail subs like RSL or whatever doesn't sound as good, there is usually a problem. This just goes to show how much better the ID subs are than most retail brands are when there is not a setup issue.
RSL (rogersound labs) is a small retail shop? Really. I always knew them as a ID company founded by Howard Rogers as a speaker builder in the late 70's now factory direct. Long before SVS was even a thought. In fact SVS is no longer just a ID company. They sell thru many retailers and stores like Best buy. Not that any of this makes a difference in the product they both sell.
 
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#49 · (Edited)
I think the best option for high quality, accurate, satisfying sound quality is to measure with REW, place and integrate properly, and get used to the accurate sound of a flatter frequency response. After some time spent listening, adjust the curve to preference, but it will likely no longer be the wildly bloated bass that many cheap retail subs have.
I would agree with this "but" not everyone is going to buy a $800.00 subwoofer then go spend $300.00 more worth of equipment that they have to learn how to use, Hope they have a lap top, when there having trouble even setting up there AVR for best sound and performance. 1st things 1st.

Actually i thought my SVS sub sounded pretty good until i decided to try the RSL 10s. Then i realized how bloated the SVS subwoofer was sounding all this time. Who would have thought!

But because of these discussions on this forum, I have decided to buy a DSP and Mic and down load REW and see what i can do in measurements in my room to see what's actually going on. Maybe i can make it sound even better!

Any advise on how to do it for less money then $325.00 plus a lap top computer?
 
#52 ·
san andreas is decent
with dwayne johnson
 
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