Is there a more destructive low bass song to be had?! - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 116Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #61 of 165 Old 02-21-2017, 06:51 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 11,280
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 5939
Judging by the video Newc33 posted, he could play sine wave tones all day at that level and not hurt a damn thing. One of the major benefits of having lots of voice coils in a system with ass loads of power. His system at -6 is like most people's system at -30 comparing power draw and excursion requirements.
newc33 likes this.

Getting Started with REW: A Step by Step Guide -->http://www.roomeqwizard.com/REWhelp.pdf

Mini DSP Tutorial by Neutro --> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...g-minidsp.html
basshead81 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #62 of 165 Old 02-21-2017, 07:03 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 252
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Liked: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by newc33 View Post
Dude there is way more to factor here than PSAs Web page output chart...

1) I have 4 t18s not 1
2)mine are pretty well dialed in using omnimic (I won't say they are perfect)
3) not only do I have 4 t18s but they are in a 1600 cubic foot sealed room on a suspended floor.
4)at 10hz in a small room I would expect the t18 to beat the v3601 in output no problem (I would have to very this to be sure). The v3601 will roll off way faster below its port tune (17hz???)
5) we still don't know what level the OP was playing at
Ok, you didn't mention what you were running at the time.
newc33 likes this.
albatros43 is offline  
post #63 of 165 Old 02-21-2017, 07:14 AM
Advanced Member
 
Sekosche's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 615
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 365 Post(s)
Liked: 648
Quote:
Originally Posted by basshead81 View Post
Judging by the video Newc33 posted, he could play sine wave tones all day at that level and not hurt a damn thing. One of the major benefits of having lots of voice coils in a system with ass loads of power. His system at -6 is like most people's system at -30 comparing power draw and excursion requirements.
I did a ULF card on Newc33's room a while back, and it was of course heaps above reference down to 10Hz, with room gain he might be fully capable to DC. It's too bad he wasn't able to finish compression sweeps, because I'd love to know where his ceiling is.

Speakers: PSA (MT-110 x2, MTM-210C, MT-110SR x2); SVS Satellite x4
Subs: PSA V1800 x2, B1200D x2
Actuators: Crowson Tech Shadow-8 x2
Processing: Denon X4200, MiniDSP HD, NU6000DSP
Sekosche is offline  
 
post #64 of 165 Old 02-21-2017, 07:18 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
basshead81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Fort Wayne, IN
Posts: 11,280
Mentioned: 89 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 219 Post(s)
Liked: 5939
Yes he should be reference capable down into the single digits depending on the signal chain.

Getting Started with REW: A Step by Step Guide -->http://www.roomeqwizard.com/REWhelp.pdf

Mini DSP Tutorial by Neutro --> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/113-su...g-minidsp.html
basshead81 is offline  
post #65 of 165 Old 02-21-2017, 08:11 PM
Member
 
Darian97's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 146
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 106 Post(s)
Liked: 130
I wouldn't consider these "destructive" but these songs have some nice low bass...

Future -All Right
Young Jeezy -Put On
Lil Wayne -Bill Gates
Big Sean -Blessings
TI -No Mediocre
Bassotronics -The End of My Life is You (this one is destructive)
Darian97 is offline  
post #66 of 165 Old 02-23-2017, 12:16 PM
Senior Member
 
SoCalGuy-99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 239
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 110 Post(s)
Liked: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Hi all, Not to be bunny buzzkill or anything BUT...

Be careful with these *songs*. As has been mentioned already they are often just random test tones at varying levels. You cook an amplifier or voice coil with something like this and it's going to be considered "abuse" (not covered under warranty) by most OEMs.
Especially when compared to SVS's 5 year Unconditional warranty with free 2-way shipping, then most OEMs are bringing a fork to a gun fight...

SCG

Last edited by SoCalGuy-99; 02-24-2017 at 08:42 AM.
SoCalGuy-99 is offline  
post #67 of 165 Old 02-25-2017, 12:07 PM
Senior Member
 
SoCalGuy-99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 239
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 110 Post(s)
Liked: 171
I guess bunny buzzkill did kill this thread cuz ever since users were slapped with an injunction and informed that these songs are "considered abuse" and would void their warranties, the postings have ground to a halt
ChromeJob likes this.

SCG
SoCalGuy-99 is offline  
post #68 of 165 Old 02-25-2017, 12:29 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ChromeJob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: N. Carolina
Posts: 2,268
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 938 Post(s)
Liked: 440
Send a message via Yahoo to ChromeJob Send a message via Skype™ to ChromeJob
Is there a more destructive low bass song to be had?!

It's silly to think a song is going to kill a subwoofer ... it's misconfiguration of the system that allows LFE in some song to overdrive the sub. Stop trying to bang the driver or make the sub hobble across the floor like a little bete noir R2-D2. Playing most types of music ought to be fine.

IF someone wants to really be inside the music, or impress friends by making framed pictures rattle against the walls and show the windows are flexing to near the point of breaking, then you'd better have the equipment to do it without damage. If it breaks, don't point at the song, look to oneself.

IMHO.

How's that for a Righteous Rabbit rebuttal?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
4. Saint Saens organ CD (Boston symphony)
If that's the 1983 recording by Micha Schattner , it's excerpted on the Boston Acoustic Society test disc, a version of which is provided by Hsu Research. It clearly states that you should turn volume down on first playing, else woofers may be damaged. :-\

“Phil? Phil Connors?!”
Are ya new here? Please read FAQs and forum stickies. Like posts that help you. Don't ask a question and then disappear.
A: Yamaha RX-V775. Bose 401 mains, 301 Series III surrounds, Yamaha NS-C444 center, Hsu VTF-2 Mk4.
V: Samsung UN40ES6150, Panasonic DMP-BDT215, Yamaha DVD-S550. Apple TV 4gen. Chromecast 1gen.

Last edited by ChromeJob; 02-25-2017 at 12:35 PM.
ChromeJob is online now  
post #69 of 165 Old 02-27-2017, 06:38 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
chadsmith013's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Jacksonville Florida
Posts: 1,599
Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 923 Post(s)
Liked: 849
my daughter plays this really old computer game..she asked me to test it in the theater room because even on her headphones it had some pretty good bass...I played it and it seemed like it went pretty low for an old low budget computer game..

love to see a couple people here play it and let me know what you think..??

ChromeJob likes this.

Receiver : Denon x2300
Front Stage : 3 DIYSG Fusion 10's
Surround Speakers :2 DIYSG Volt 6's
Subwoofers : Dual Dayton HO 18's in sealed cabs w/Inuke 3000 DSP
chadsmith013 is offline  
post #70 of 165 Old 02-27-2017, 06:51 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tom Vodhanel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 3,333
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1737 Post(s)
Liked: 5067
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalGuy-99 View Post
Especially when compared to SVS's 5 year Unconditional warranty with free 2-way shipping, then most OEMs are bringing a fork to a gun fight...
https://www.svsound.com/pages/customer-service

WARRANTY
SVS has a 5-year bumper-to-bumper warranty, which is one of the longest and most comprehensive in the consumer electronics industry. Warranty exclusions include (but are not necessarily limited to) force majeure, acts of nature, AC power surges, and ABUSE.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
ChromeJob and newc33 like this.

“Price is the last refuge for the business without the imagination or ability to offer more" - Unknown.

Last edited by Tom Vodhanel; 02-27-2017 at 11:20 AM.
Tom Vodhanel is offline  
post #71 of 165 Old 02-27-2017, 06:52 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
David Charles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Amherst, Ohio
Posts: 81
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Liked: 85
The album "Bass from Hell, Vol. 1" has the most ridiculous low bass i've ever heard. I just played it on Tidal last night and I was blown away, literally, from port air from the v3601. Crazy low bass.
David Charles is offline  
post #72 of 165 Old 02-27-2017, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
David Charles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Amherst, Ohio
Posts: 81
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Liked: 85
The song on the above album, "Earthquake" should be a go to for you sealed sub people.
David Charles is offline  
post #73 of 165 Old 02-27-2017, 06:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tom Vodhanel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 3,333
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1737 Post(s)
Liked: 5067
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalGuy-99 View Post
I guess bunny buzzkill did kill this thread cuz ever since users were slapped with an injunction and informed that these songs are "considered abuse" and would void their warranties, the postings have ground to a halt
Yeah, my bad for trying to let everyone know many OEMs consider test tones played back so loud they begin to MELT the product to be abuse. They would be much better off begin surprised by a $250-500-750 repair bill instead...

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

“Price is the last refuge for the business without the imagination or ability to offer more" - Unknown.
Tom Vodhanel is offline  
post #74 of 165 Old 02-27-2017, 08:42 PM
Senior Member
 
SoCalGuy-99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 239
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 110 Post(s)
Liked: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Yeah, my bad for trying to let everyone know many OEMs consider test tones played back so loud they begin to MELT the product to be abuse. They would be much better off begin surprised by a $250-500-750 repair bill instead...
This was a joke on my part hence the emoji I used. You put people on notice that you considered the "*songs*" to be abuse and would void their warranties, it was funny to me because everyone seemed to get the message and immediately stop posting songs and any incriminating videos of their subs playing said songs, mission accomplished and you had the self-depreciating humor to use the term "bunny buzzkill" to deliver your message which had me rotfl.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
https://www.svsound.com/pages/customer-service

WARRANTY - SVS has a 5-year bumper-to-bumper warranty, which is one of the longest and most comprehensive in the consumer electronics industry. Warranty exclusions include (but are not necessarily limited to) force majeure, acts of nature, AC power surges, and ABUSE.
Now warranty issues and support are important issues to me so I will address this. Through the years no matter where I live or who my friends are - loud & deep bass is an intoxicating addictive mix, whether found in music or movies. And with engineers and producers putting more and more low freq sound into them (BHD, EOT, WOW, HTTYD, Pulse, etc) people are going to be playing music and movies loud with deep bass and not always knowing it. Have a few drinks while enjoying your entertainment and the volume can be much louder than you later realize, and some guys here are openly acknowledging running their subs 6-9-12-15db hot - but even strictly running at reference things can still get very loud quickly. Then factor in how competitive men can be with their toys and stuff happens.

Here are two scenarios that happen to my friends months apart last year:

Friend with standard OEM warranty
-Sub stops working and contacts OEM
-OEM says pay for shipping part back to us for eval (ouch!)
-We will test and determine cause - typically 1-3 weeks (ouch!)
-If warranty issue then we ship another one, otherwise you pay "$250-500-750 repair bill instead" and only then we repair (1-3 days) and ship out

Friend with unconditional OEM warranty
-sub stops working and contacts OEM
-OEM confirms sub dead via troubleshooting over phone
-OEM sends out new part in 24-48hrs
-Friend sent back defective part (no out of pocket expenses)

Now with regards to SVS and their unconditional warranty as listed in the Bill of Rights https://www.svsound.com/pages/bill-of-rights and the link you provided https://www.svsound.com/pages/customer-service. In the details, they do mention "abuse" and I can't speak for them but maybe it's to avoid the anecdotal hypothetical scenario that you posted earlier.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
You better get that in writing. Ask them in an email. "Hey, I was going to get one of your subs. But I intend to run test tones through it at extreme volume levels to the point that things will begin to melt. I just want to make sure you guys are fine with this and I'll be completely covered under warranty if this happens say---once a month for the next 5 years"?
Although that is an very extreme example, I never heard of nor experienced SVS saying ship the unit back to us so we can determine the cause before we send you out a new part and decide who is to blame. In fact, I have experienced the exact opposite where they have proactively shipped me the part (just in case) to get me up and running quickly. Yet if it did happen "once a month for 5 years" then I'm sure they would claim "abuse" and not repair under warranty.

Maybe I'm just lucky or SVS is just rolling the dice but I suspect it more along these lines:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
I'd reckon 99.9% of potential customers couldn't care less about this though as 999 users out of 1000 aren't planning on trying to melt their audio products
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
What really impresses me is how well dialed-in the amp’s limiter appears to be. You can push the driver to legitimately scary excursion levels, seemingly on the edge of what’s mechanically possible, and yet the sub won’t self-destruct if you push it further. This a great thing, most manufacturers err on the side of caution resulting in tepid infrasonic output, despite whatever specifications they list. I’m not seeing that here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I will not be performing CEA-2010 measurements although I understand someone else is doing that, so those number will exist soon enough. But anecdotally, just messing with sine waves and other bass tones, it’s clear this sub’s designers have found the Goldilocks zone for the amp and the driver and the DSP.


Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
I built a DIY system with four subs tuned to 14 hz, in order to master them properly. The PB16-Ultra is the first commercial sub I have reviewed whereby one sub can properly reproduce everything I put into those tracks.


Quote:
Originally Posted by James Larson Audioholic review
I have to mention once again that the sub does not allow itself to be overdriven into danger. The limiter is bulletproof, so owners can crank it as hard as they want to impress visitors, and it will survive.
No product is truly bullet proof and there is always someone out there willing, able and ready to abuse a company's warranty policy, goodwill, and trust. In addition, there are many on these forums that strictly only care about SPL/$$ and nothing else matters. But for some, the full package the company offers is a big part of the consideration of doing business with them and for me warranty is one of those factors.

As you, yourself said:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
As mentioned I've seen just about every quality brand of sub preferred over the next guy and vice versa many times over the years. They all just let it go for what it is---a slight preference for one quality product over another quality product.
And with regards to warranty, this is one area (when I re-evaluated the all the major subs suppliers on these forms at the end of last year, for a 3rd system) where SVS had an advantage over most OEMs and was one of the things that was of value to me, in addition to a killer sub.

SCG

Last edited by SoCalGuy-99; 02-27-2017 at 09:33 PM.
SoCalGuy-99 is offline  
post #75 of 165 Old 02-28-2017, 06:41 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 252
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Liked: 153
You do realize you are paying for all of this "free insurance"? If SVS lets you throw your sub off a roof, you call them, and they replace it no questions asked that price is baked into the price of each sub. The same goes for the "free shipping" both ways. Do you think everyone that buys 2 or 3 SVS subs at a time with the intention of only keeping one, shipping 2 back in for "free", and then SVS selling 2 of the 3 at the Outlet is "free"? This is by no means an SVS "bashing" thread, but when you buy that SVS you are paying for all of that.

Last edited by albatros43; 02-28-2017 at 08:54 AM.
albatros43 is offline  
post #76 of 165 Old 02-28-2017, 08:46 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ChromeJob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: N. Carolina
Posts: 2,268
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 938 Post(s)
Liked: 440
Send a message via Yahoo to ChromeJob Send a message via Skype™ to ChromeJob
Quote:
Originally Posted by albatros43 View Post
You do realize you are paying for all of this "free insurance"? If SVS lets you throw your sub off a roof, you call them, and they replace it no questions asked that price is baked into the price of each sub. The same goes for the "free shipping" both ways. Do you think everyone that buys 2 or 3 SVS subs at a time with the intention of only keeping one, shipping 2 back in for "free", and then SVS selling 2 of the 3 at the Outlet is "free"? This is by no means an SVS "bashing" thread, but when you buy that SVS you are paying for all of that.
A. Did you really need to quote his entire post? :roll:

B. His examples and your "throw it off the roof" example don't correlate.

Your point is taken, the operation expenses of any firm are probably baked into their prices. But when reviews repeatedly indicate that the cost/performance ratio of their products is competitive, then it's probably not that bad. Who cares? If your purchase goes bad under warranty, you;d like to know you bought from a firm that will support you, not find ways to wriggle out of their promise.

Socalguy's anecdote of a company sending out a replacement part is not so much an example of companies passing their warranty expenses on to customers but of a company that is putting customer loyalty and brand excellence before nickels and dimes.

Abuse does happen. The US importer of Orient Watches once or twice blogged about people sending in dive watches for "warranty replacement" and found the movement soaked in sea water, or in one case, a watch was clearly put in an oven to dry out or something before being returned. There are numbskulls out there that really think misuse and abuse is covered by warranty contracts.
SoCalGuy-99 likes this.

“Phil? Phil Connors?!”
Are ya new here? Please read FAQs and forum stickies. Like posts that help you. Don't ask a question and then disappear.
A: Yamaha RX-V775. Bose 401 mains, 301 Series III surrounds, Yamaha NS-C444 center, Hsu VTF-2 Mk4.
V: Samsung UN40ES6150, Panasonic DMP-BDT215, Yamaha DVD-S550. Apple TV 4gen. Chromecast 1gen.
ChromeJob is online now  
post #77 of 165 Old 02-28-2017, 08:59 AM - Thread Starter
Member
 
David Charles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: Amherst, Ohio
Posts: 81
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 64 Post(s)
Liked: 85
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChromeJob View Post
A. Did you really need to quote his entire post? :roll:

B. His examples and your "throw it off the roof" example don't correlate.

Your point is taken, the operation expenses of any firm are probably baked into their prices. But when reviews repeatedly indicate that the cost/performance ratio of their products is competitive, then it's probably not that bad. Who cares? If your purchase goes bad under warranty, you;d like to know you bought from a firm that will support you, not find ways to wriggle out of their promise.

Socalguy's anecdote of a company sending out a replacement part is not so much an example of companies passing their warranty expenses on to customers but of a company that is putting customer loyalty and brand excellence before nickels and dimes.

Abuse does happen. The US importer of Orient Watches once or twice blogged about people sending in dive watches for "warranty replacement" and found the movement soaked in sea water, or in one case, a watch was clearly put in an oven to dry out or something before being returned. There are numbskulls out there that really think misuse and abuse is covered by warranty contracts.
At the same time, jamming out to a good movie or song that has decent bass and posting your video/pic, etc should be under the "normal" operating range of a subwoofer (especially some of these top tier subs that we are referencing). I almost felt bad after posting the 3 videos of my new sub but then realized, I never once was anywhere near their max level. I just wanted a dose of bass and wanted to share

I felt like the bass police were out on patrol.
SoCalGuy-99 likes this.
David Charles is offline  
post #78 of 165 Old 02-28-2017, 09:00 AM
Advanced Member
 
Ted Sheckler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Utah
Posts: 722
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 322 Post(s)
Liked: 274
Low-Juicy J
Nothin on ya-Gucci

Some I just like what they did with the bass.

Killing Strangers-Marilyn Manson
Pimp of the year-Dru Down
Give it up-Knife Party
Clint Eastwood-Gorillaz
Bun-Bun B
This sh#% will fcuk you up-Combichrist
SoCalGuy-99 likes this.

📺 Samsung (PN51F8500)
📻 Yamaha (RX-V475)
🎶 SVS (PRIME)

🔊 SVS (PB-1000)
SVS (PC12-NSD)
🎮 PS4□Xbox One 2.5TB
Ted Sheckler is online now  
post #79 of 165 Old 02-28-2017, 09:00 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2017
Posts: 252
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 155 Post(s)
Liked: 153
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChromeJob View Post
A. Did you really need to quote his entire post? :roll:

B. His examples and your "throw it off the roof" example don't correlate.

Your point is taken, the operation expenses of any firm are probably baked into their prices. But when reviews repeatedly indicate that the cost/performance ratio of their products is competitive, then it's probably not that bad. Who cares? If your purchase goes bad under warranty, you;d like to know you bought from a firm that will support you, not find ways to wriggle out of their promise.

Socalguy's anecdote of a company sending out a replacement part is not so much an example of companies passing their warranty expenses on to customers but of a company that is putting customer loyalty and brand excellence before nickels and dimes.

Abuse does happen. The US importer of Orient Watches once or twice blogged about people sending in dive watches for "warranty replacement" and found the movement soaked in sea water, or in one case, a watch was clearly put in an oven to dry out or something before being returned. There are numbskulls out there that really think misuse and abuse is covered by warranty contracts.
Lots of forums will collapse a quoted reply, but this forum isn't one of them. I've removed the quotes all-together. My point was SVS gets tons of praise for "free shipping" and a great "warranty", but those are all hidden costs in the product. Nothing is free. But sure, who cares? If you like the company and the product and are comfortable with the price, then it truly doesn't matter. When it does matter is when it's touted as some great benefit and a dig against other OEMs.
ChromeJob likes this.
albatros43 is offline  
post #80 of 165 Old 02-28-2017, 09:15 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tom Vodhanel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 3,333
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1737 Post(s)
Liked: 5067
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalGuy-99 View Post
This was a joke on my part hence the emoji I used. You put people on notice that you considered the "*songs*" to be abuse and would void their warranties, it was funny to me because everyone seemed to get the message and immediately stop posting songs and any incriminating videos of their subs playing said songs, mission accomplished and you had the self-depreciating humor to use the term "bunny buzzkill" to deliver your message which had me rotfl.



Now warranty issues and support are important issues to me so I will address this. Through the years no matter where I live or who my friends are - loud & deep bass is an intoxicating addictive mix, whether found in music or movies. And with engineers and producers putting more and more low freq sound into them (BHD, EOT, WOW, HTTYD, Pulse, etc) people are going to be playing music and movies loud with deep bass and not always knowing it. Have a few drinks while enjoying your entertainment and the volume can be much louder than you later realize, and some guys here are openly acknowledging running their subs 6-9-12-15db hot - but even strictly running at reference things can still get very loud quickly. Then factor in how competitive men can be with their toys and stuff happens.

Here are two scenarios that happen to my friends months apart last year:

Friend with standard OEM warranty
-Sub stops working and contacts OEM
-OEM says pay for shipping part back to us for eval (ouch!)
-We will test and determine cause - typically 1-3 weeks (ouch!)
-If warranty issue then we ship another one, otherwise you pay "$250-500-750 repair bill instead" and only then we repair (1-3 days) and ship out

Friend with unconditional OEM warranty
-sub stops working and contacts OEM
-OEM confirms sub dead via troubleshooting over phone
-OEM sends out new part in 24-48hrs
-Friend sent back defective part (no out of pocket expenses)

Now with regards to SVS and their unconditional warranty as listed in the Bill of Rights https://www.svsound.com/pages/bill-of-rights and the link you provided https://www.svsound.com/pages/customer-service. In the details, they do mention "abuse" and I can't speak for them but maybe it's to avoid the anecdotal hypothetical scenario that you posted earlier.




Although that is an very extreme example, I never heard of nor experienced SVS saying ship the unit back to us so we can determine the cause before we send you out a new part and decide who is to blame. In fact, I have experienced the exact opposite where they have proactively shipped me the part (just in case) to get me up and running quickly. Yet if it did happen "once a month for 5 years" then I'm sure they would claim "abuse" and not repair under warranty.

Maybe I'm just lucky or SVS is just rolling the dice but I suspect it more along these lines:











No product is truly bullet proof and there is always someone out there willing, able and ready to abuse a company's warranty policy, goodwill, and trust. In addition, there are many on these forums that strictly only care about SPL/$$ and nothing else matters. But for some, the full package the company offers is a big part of the consideration of doing business with them and for me warranty is one of those factors.

As you, yourself said:



And with regards to warranty, this is one area (when I re-evaluated the all the major subs suppliers on these forms at the end of last year, for a 3rd system) where SVS had an advantage over most OEMs and was one of the things that was of value to me, in addition to a killer sub.
I'm not sure what, if anything, in your wall of text I could reply too as none of it addresses the point of my original cautionary post.

* Damage caused by test tones with usually be considered abuse and as such, not covered under warranty.*

Nothing you have posted conflicts that. You seem to have a misunderstanding of a reviewer suggesting a sub "cannot be over driven" and assuming that means you can put in a 20hz sine wave at loud volume and let it run as long as you want. And further more you have stated that svs has an "unconditional warranty" that covers this type of clear abuse. Again, you clearly misunderstood their warranty.

The topic seems to be evolving into a silly semantics debate and as *fun* as that might be to some I just don't have the time.

If someone gets hit with a $500 repair bill don't plead ignorance..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio

“Price is the last refuge for the business without the imagination or ability to offer more" - Unknown.
Tom Vodhanel is offline  
post #81 of 165 Old 02-28-2017, 09:30 AM
Ultimate Sound Wave
 
Adamg (Ret-Navy)'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 1,042
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 460 Post(s)
Liked: 753
Well this was a fun thread to follow. All the hand wringing and back and forth is off topic. One warning is more than adequate. Can we please get back on topic.

Let the deep notes roll on.................

FYI, if you have a nice set of cans, some of these tracks are fantastic on Headphones.....

Regards,
Adamg
Adamg (Ret-Navy) is offline  
post #82 of 165 Old 02-28-2017, 12:53 PM
Senior Member
 
SoCalGuy-99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 239
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 110 Post(s)
Liked: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
I'm not sure what, if anything, in your wall of text I could reply too as none of it addresses the point of my original cautionary post.

* Damage caused by test tones with usually be considered abuse and as such, not covered under warranty.*

Nothing you have posted conflicts that. You seem to have a misunderstanding of a reviewer suggesting a sub "cannot be over driven" and assuming that means you can put in a 20hz sine wave at loud volume and let it run as long as you want. And further more you have stated that svs has an "unconditional warranty" that covers this type of clear abuse. Again, you clearly misunderstood their warranty.

The topic seems to be evolving into a silly semantics debate and as *fun* as that might be to some I just don't have the time.

If someone gets hit with a $500 repair bill don't plead ignorance..
What is clearly understood is that you don't consider the songs posted here as "music" but instead "random generated test tones" that are considered "clear abuse" and void warranties but you provide zero proof. You remind me of my grandpa telling my parents that their music (Elvis, Beatles, Stones) was pure noise and would ruin their speaker As I never "assumed that means you can put in a 20hz sine wave at loud volume and let it run as long as you want" - never.

SCG

Last edited by SoCalGuy-99; 02-28-2017 at 07:49 PM.
SoCalGuy-99 is offline  
post #83 of 165 Old 02-28-2017, 01:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Marc Alexander's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 8,228
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1591 Post(s)
Liked: 1274
The OP has 12 18" drivers in a small room so I think he is looking to just give his subs some exercise. I think many of us have multiple drivers and are smart enough to use restraint with the volume control.

I personally am most interested in the "real" music posted so far vs the electronically generated. I know @imagic has made a hobby of creating these electronic tracks and uses them when reviewing subs. These bass discs also have similar printed warnings IME.

99% of us have common sense end adequate headroom. There will always be that ignorant 1% coming across a thread like this and crossing the line into abuse.
Marc Alexander is online now  
post #84 of 165 Old 02-28-2017, 01:19 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
ChromeJob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: N. Carolina
Posts: 2,268
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 938 Post(s)
Liked: 440
Send a message via Yahoo to ChromeJob Send a message via Skype™ to ChromeJob
I think we've bickered about this enough. Let's get back on topic, with the presumption that any "weapons grade" bass-heavy song is not played above reference, thereby damaging equipment, home furnishings, or worse, one's ear drums.

“Phil? Phil Connors?!”
Are ya new here? Please read FAQs and forum stickies. Like posts that help you. Don't ask a question and then disappear.
A: Yamaha RX-V775. Bose 401 mains, 301 Series III surrounds, Yamaha NS-C444 center, Hsu VTF-2 Mk4.
V: Samsung UN40ES6150, Panasonic DMP-BDT215, Yamaha DVD-S550. Apple TV 4gen. Chromecast 1gen.
ChromeJob is online now  
post #85 of 165 Old 02-28-2017, 01:39 PM
Super Moderator
 
markrubin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Jersey Shore
Posts: 19,794
Mentioned: 19 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1118 Post(s)
Liked: 2520
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChromeJob View Post
I think we've bickered about this enough. Let's get back on topic, with the presumption that any "weapons grade" bass-heavy song is not played above reference, thereby damaging equipment, home furnishings, or worse, one's ear drums.
+1

at my age (70 years) I wish I had been given more warnings about what loud music does to your hearing...

please take the high road in every post:do not respond to or quote a problematic post: report it
HDMI.org:what a mess this is a red flag issue
HDCP = Hollywood's Draconian Copy Protection system
markrubin is offline  
post #86 of 165 Old 02-28-2017, 05:00 PM
Assoc. Editor @ AVS Forum
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 10,965
Mentioned: 185 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5506 Post(s)
Liked: 9459
Wink

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Hi all,

Not to be bunny buzzkill or anything BUT...

Be careful with these *songs*. As has been mentioned already they are often just random test tones at varying levels. You cook an amplifier or voice coil with something like this and it's going to be considered "abuse"(not covered under warranty) by most OEMs.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalGuy-99 View Post
Especially when compared to SVS's 5 year Unconditional warranty with free 2-way shipping, then most OEMs are bringing a fork to a gun fight...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalGuy-99 View Post
I guess bunny buzzkill did kill this thread cuz ever since users were slapped with an injunction and informed that these songs are "considered abuse" and would void their warranties, the postings have ground to a halt
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChromeJob View Post
It's silly to think a song is going to kill a subwoofer ... it's misconfiguration of the system that allows LFE in some song to overdrive the sub. Stop trying to bang the driver or make the sub hobble across the floor like a little bete noir R2-D2. Playing most types of music ought to be fine.

IF someone wants to really be inside the music, or impress friends by making framed pictures rattle against the walls and show the windows are flexing to near the point of breaking, then you'd better have the equipment to do it without damage. If it breaks, don't point at the song, look to oneself.

IMHO.

How's that for a Righteous Rabbit rebuttal?



If that's the 1983 recording by Micha Schattner , it's excerpted on the Boston Acoustic Society test disc, a version of which is provided by Hsu Research. It clearly states that you should turn volume down on first playing, else woofers may be damaged. :-\
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
https://www.svsound.com/pages/customer-service

WARRANTY
SVS has a 5-year bumper-to-bumper warranty, which is one of the longest and most comprehensive in the consumer electronics industry. Warranty exclusions include (but are not necessarily limited to) force majeure, acts of nature, AC power surges, and ABUSE.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Yeah, my bad for trying to let everyone know many OEMs consider test tones played back so loud they begin to MELT the product to be abuse. They would be much better off begin surprised by a $250-500-750 repair bill instead...

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Charles View Post
At the same time, jamming out to a good movie or song that has decent bass and posting your video/pic, etc should be under the "normal" operating range of a subwoofer (especially some of these top tier subs that we are referencing). I almost felt bad after posting the 3 videos of my new sub but then realized, I never once was anywhere near their max level. I just wanted a dose of bass and wanted to share

I felt like the bass police were out on patrol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
I'm not sure what, if anything, in your wall of text I could reply too as none of it addresses the point of my original cautionary post.

* Damage caused by test tones with usually be considered abuse and as such, not covered under warranty.*

Nothing you have posted conflicts that. You seem to have a misunderstanding of a reviewer suggesting a sub "cannot be over driven" and assuming that means you can put in a 20hz sine wave at loud volume and let it run as long as you want. And further more you have stated that svs has an "unconditional warranty" that covers this type of clear abuse. Again, you clearly misunderstood their warranty.

The topic seems to be evolving into a silly semantics debate and as *fun* as that might be to some I just don't have the time.

If someone gets hit with a $500 repair bill don't plead ignorance..

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adamg (Ret-Navy) View Post
Well this was a fun thread to follow. All the hand wringing and back and forth is off topic. One warning is more than adequate. Can we please get back on topic.

Let the deep notes roll on.................

FYI, if you have a nice set of cans, some of these tracks are fantastic on Headphones.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by SoCalGuy-99 View Post
What is clearly understood is that you don't consider the songs posted here as "music" but instead "random generated test tones" that are considered "clear abuse" and void warranties but you provide zero proof. You remind me of my grandpa telling my parents that their music (Elvis, Beatles, Stones) was pure noise and would ruin their speaker As I never assumed that means you can put in a 20hz sine wave at loud volume and let it run as long as you want., never.
Quote:
Originally Posted by markrubin View Post
+1

at my age (70 years) I wish I had been given more warnings about what loud music does to your hearing...


Some fun reading here. Hmmm, I guess I had better be gentle as I review the 15V? Should I take it easy when I play my own MUSIC through it? You know, the music I explicitly composed with lots of deep bass because.... well because bass is awesome?

I want to see a subwoofer manufacturer who denies a warranty claim because of the musical taste of the customer. That would make an interesting article for the AVS Forum homepage, I suspect. If anyone has run into this situation, please let me know.

I'm curious where the line is, when does a music become just test tones? Dubstep? Dub King ? Can someone messing around with REW be considered a performance artist?


Mark Henninger

Last edited by imagic; 02-28-2017 at 05:40 PM.
imagic is offline  
post #87 of 165 Old 02-28-2017, 07:43 PM
Senior Member
 
SoCalGuy-99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 239
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 110 Post(s)
Liked: 171
Quote:
Originally Posted by albatros43 View Post
My point was SVS gets tons of praise for "free shipping" and a great "warranty", but those are all hidden costs in the product. Nothing is free. But sure, who cares? If you like the company and the product and are comfortable with the price, then it truly doesn't matter. When it does matter is when it's touted as some great benefit and a dig against other OEMs.
*Below is referring to the universal you and not the quoted poster.

I think we all agree that Amazon Prime's 2-day free shipping isn't free, and with that Pizza/Pizza deal - the 2nd pizza isn't free - it's all baked into the price, so each buyer has to evaluate whether that's of value for them when purchasing from that company.

Where it really stands out for me is in warranty repairs, because even if you buy from the most reputable companies there are still going to be a few defective products. World-class Six-Sigma still means 3 defects per million and most companies are absolutely nowhere near that good. So if you buy a great product and happen to be one of the ones that gets a defective product, why should you be double penalized and have to pay for any extra out of pocket shipping costs just to be made whole again?

It's bad enough that you received one of the lemons and now in additional to the time and energy it's going to take to box it up and return it - they want you to pay the return shipping? (ouch)

I much prefer that they bake the warranty shipping cost (both ways) into the price of the product and amortize it across all purchases. This is just smart business sense and good customer service - and exactly how they do it for everything else (materials, salaries, benefits, rent, utilities, taxes, company pizza parties, etc). So why single out warranty and make the customer pay 3 times for the company's mistake (product price, shipping costs, inconvenience of defective product). And if the product's cost is much higher when compared to the competition then you know you're dealing a high defect product/company up front. And if the price is comparable to the competition then know you're getting a good deal and solid customer service up front.

So when companies do the right thing and take care of their customers under warranty, I find that very much value-added and worth expressing - and totally sad that it's not SOP.

Now back to those BAD(B)ASS songs, I nominate the DIY tracks that imagic did as those are all have pretty incredible deep bass, and they ask your subwoofers "who's your daddy?"

Dub King presents: The Truth Hz - Tracks that will test the outer limits of your system and your subwoofer(s)

"The Truth Hz - Your DIY Setup Can't Handle This" - a compilation of infrasonic music by Dub King

SCG

Last edited by SoCalGuy-99; 03-02-2017 at 06:30 PM.
SoCalGuy-99 is offline  
post #88 of 165 Old 03-01-2017, 05:49 AM
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 3
Look for Braindub - In Your Brain, been amazed by the lows on the entire album since it came out nearly 20 years ago!
Torkens is offline  
post #89 of 165 Old 03-01-2017, 06:58 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Tom Vodhanel's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 3,333
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1737 Post(s)
Liked: 5067
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Some fun reading here. Hmmm, I guess I had better be gentle as I review the 15V? Should I take it easy when I play my own MUSIC through it? You know, the music I explicitly composed with lots of deep bass because.... well because bass is awesome?
If you haven't melted any of the other subs you have "reviewed" with your "music" you're not going to hurt the 15V. I thought it would be obvious my comments would be directed toward the general consumer who may not have any experience or knowledge of how demanding this type of source material can be on a product. And all you need to do is google "I just blew my subwoofer" and you'll find dozens of links showing folks abusing their product out of ignorance.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
newc33 likes this.

“Price is the last refuge for the business without the imagination or ability to offer more" - Unknown.
Tom Vodhanel is offline  
post #90 of 165 Old 03-01-2017, 07:30 AM
Assoc. Editor @ AVS Forum
 
imagic's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 10,965
Mentioned: 185 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5506 Post(s)
Liked: 9459
Cool It's all good...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
If you haven't melted any of the other subs you have "reviewed" with your "music" you're not going to hurt the 15V. I thought it would be obvious my comments would be directed toward the general consumer who may not have any experience or knowledge of how demanding this type of source material can be on a product. And all you need to do is google "I just blew my subwoofer" and you'll find dozens of links showing folks abusing their product out of ignorance.

Tom V.
Power Sound Audio
It is obvious... I was just having some fun. I know the exact sort of "music"—that's really just test tones—you refer to.

Here's the thing... when I search you suggest, I wind up with a gazillion results about blown automotive subwoofers—there's no end to it—and it makes sense given the "dB drag race" proclivities of those guys. There's also a fair number of pro PA sub posts, about needing to re-cone 18-inchers after some brutal gigs, lol.

Somewhere deep inside those search results is surely a DIY project or two. But, at least in my attempt, there's not so much to read as far as blown commercial/consumer subs designed for residential use, and what exists are not "Oh snap I played this bass track and it wrecked my sub." It's more like "I'm no longer getting any sound from my sub, is it blown?"

Anyhow, my tracks go low and I tried to shake things up with some interesting bass tones that AVS Forum bassaholics are well-equipped to play, but by no means would I compose a track that's nothing but a 16 Hz sine wave running minutes on end, that's definitely not what I'm up to.

Having said that, it's not so much the content as it is the carelessness of an owner who would deliberately run a sub to to point of failure by overdriving it. I know that's your point. You could put Daft Punk's "Disc Wars" from Tron Legacy on repeat at max volume and probably get the same end result as a "test tone track." "Disc Wars" tests anything I play it through, and it overheated amps like few other tracks could, back when I did dabbled in DIY.

Anyhow, I've never blown a subwoofer driver, so I am obviously not hardcore.

It's all good. Folks, don't set your subs to self-destruct.

Mark Henninger

Last edited by imagic; 03-01-2017 at 07:48 AM.
imagic is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off