SVS PB-1000 vs SB12-NSD - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 104 Old 04-18-2017, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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SVS PB-1000 vs SB12-NSD

This is for pretty much 100% movies with the occasional sports and video games. No music. I plan to add a second sub later down the line. Room size is 13'x16' and opens up at one side.

Price is the same at $400 with the exception that the PB-1000 will be used and SB12-NSD brand new.

Which would you pick?
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post #2 of 104 Old 04-18-2017, 05:08 PM
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PB-1000 to maximize extension. $99 more will get you a brand new PB-1000; ~$75 more will get you an Outlet Special (w/ full warranty) when available.
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post #3 of 104 Old 04-19-2017, 12:13 AM
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pb1000. I've owned both and while the sb12nsd is no slouch you're gonna miss a bit of that extra extension for movies. Especially if your room isn't sealed.
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post #4 of 104 Old 04-19-2017, 07:17 PM
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I have the PB1000 in my open floor plan living room/kitchen that is 16x32 with vaulted ceilings. I have been very happy with it so far. I have it sitting next to the couch used for movie watching and it has some tactile response and can rattle the pictures on the walls when it's running hard. It's no 18" ported beast but for a 10" sub it's pretty awesome.
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post #5 of 104 Old 04-20-2017, 03:35 AM
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Definitely the PB-1000. Spend a little more and get a new one that has the full warranty. Also, if you buy a new one at $499 directly from SVS within 12 months you can get another new one for $449! Definitely get another one later and run duals!
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post #6 of 104 Old 04-20-2017, 10:28 AM
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Could you go a little higher on price?

The hsu subs are so much better. Hsu vtf2 mk5 or vtf3 mk5

I bought a pb1000 and had it for 2 days. My jbl es250p was much better.

If your around frys electronics they are selling klipsch r115 for $399 with wireless adapter included and no tax. It would take 3-4 pb1000 to match that klipsch.

Svs has a good reputation and people love them. Before the new 16" sub they were easily the worst id sub company. Among the hsu, Psa,rythmik,jtr family. Even new pb16u wouldn't even be close to two hsu vtf15. New rythmik subs are amazing. Same with new Psa. Hsu is the affordable line. Jtr is the bragging rights company. Svs is p.r.o.c company.

Just trying to prove a point. Don't sell yourself short. Skip svs all together.

Good luck
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post #7 of 104 Old 04-20-2017, 12:48 PM
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PB-1000...I have a SB12 for my PC system and it is great for music but you would need a pair to match the PB-1000 for movies(output below 30hz).
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post #8 of 104 Old 04-20-2017, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy1180 View Post
Could you go a little higher on price?

The hsu subs are so much better. Hsu vtf2 mk5 or vtf3 mk5

I bought a pb1000 and had it for 2 days. My jbl es250p was much better.

If your around frys electronics they are selling klipsch r115 for $399 with wireless adapter included and no tax. It would take 3-4 pb1000 to match that klipsch.

Svs has a good reputation and people love them. Before the new 16" sub they were easily the worst id sub company. Among the hsu, Psa,rythmik,jtr family. Even new pb16u wouldn't even be close to two hsu vtf15. New rythmik subs are amazing. Same with new Psa. Hsu is the affordable line. Jtr is the bragging rights company. Svs is p.r.o.c company.

Just trying to prove a point. Don't sell yourself short. Skip svs all together.

Good luck
People perceive value differently. Not sure what criteria you're using for "easily the worst id brand". Sure if you compare output per dollar, svs is clearly not one of the leaders in this area. The free shipping both ways, longer warranty and customer service is usually what you're paying for. They must be doing something right with this many satisfied customers.
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post #9 of 104 Old 04-20-2017, 01:02 PM
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Your right svs has great service. Just not sure it's any better than the others I mentioned.

Svs is the biggest company with the biggest reputation. Just sound quality and output are still better with the others I mentioned.

If you wanted to upgrade from a entry-level subwoofer like JBL, Polk , klipsch, energy or something like that there isn't any question svs is on the right track for your decision. Pb1000 is still a 10" with little power. It's not going to outperform a 12" jbl or klipsch.

I still have a pb2000 and it's fine. It now lives in my sons room. My definitive bp7001sc easily outperform the pb2000.

Last year I even bought a pair of svs pc12 plus to replace my 2 rythmik fv15hp. I needed smaller footprint. One rythmik was easily better than both pc12plus.

So I've tried svs many times. They aren't bad but you can do much better. The hsu vtf3 mk5 was much better than pc12plus.

The hsu vtf2 in that price point will absolutely crush that pb1000 in output, tuning ability and sound.

Just my experience from testing
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post #10 of 104 Old 04-20-2017, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Timothy1180 View Post
Your right svs has great service. Just not sure it's any better than the others I mentioned.

Svs is the biggest company with the biggest reputation. Just sound quality and output are still better with the others I mentioned.

If you wanted to upgrade from a entry-level subwoofer like JBL, Polk , klipsch, energy or something like that there isn't any question svs is on the right track for your decision. Pb1000 is still a 10" with little power. It's not going to outperform a 12" jbl or klipsch.

I still have a pb2000 and it's fine. It now lives in my sons room. My definitive bp7001sc easily outperform the pb2000.

Last year I even bought a pair of svs pc12 plus to replace my 2 rythmik fv15hp. I needed smaller footprint. One rythmik was easily better than both pc12plus.

So I've tried svs many times. They aren't bad but you can do much better. The hsu vtf3 mk5 was much better than pc12plus.

The hsu vtf2 in that price point will absolutely crush that pb1000 in output, tuning ability and sound.

Just my experience from testing
Am I understanding you correctly when you're saying your def tech bp7001sc towers have more bass output/easily outperform a pb2000?
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post #11 of 104 Old 04-20-2017, 07:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthongy817 View Post
This is for pretty much 100% movies with the occasional sports and video games. No music. I plan to add a second sub later down the line. Room size is 13'x16' and opens up at one side.

Price is the same at $400 with the exception that the PB-1000 will be used and SB12-NSD brand new.

Which would you pick?
I agree with most of the other people, get a PB-1000 new or from the outlet directly from SVS. Gives you warranty and upgrade options. I would probably want to step up to the PB-2000, or a competing HSU, but between the 2 options you listed, the PB-1000. I love my NSD, but I ended up getting 4 to get the output I desired, and I concede that ported would be better value for dollar for your situation.
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post #12 of 104 Old 04-20-2017, 08:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timothy1180 View Post
Your right svs has great service. Just not sure it's any better than the others I mentioned.

Svs is the biggest company with the biggest reputation. Just sound quality and output are still better with the others I mentioned.

If you wanted to upgrade from a entry-level subwoofer like JBL, Polk , klipsch, energy or something like that there isn't any question svs is on the right track for your decision. Pb1000 is still a 10" with little power. It's not going to outperform a 12" jbl or klipsch.

I still have a pb2000 and it's fine. It now lives in my sons room. My definitive bp7001sc easily outperform the pb2000.

Last year I even bought a pair of svs pc12 plus to replace my 2 rythmik fv15hp. I needed smaller footprint. One rythmik was easily better than both pc12plus.

So I've tried svs many times. They aren't bad but you can do much better. The hsu vtf3 mk5 was much better than pc12plus.

The hsu vtf2 in that price point will absolutely crush that pb1000 in output, tuning ability and sound.

Just my experience from testing
Am I understanding you correctly when you're saying your def tech bp7001sc towers have more bass output/easily outperform a pb2000?
Yes. Not just equal to pb2000 but easily outperforms. The bp7001sc have much better drivers and way more power on tap.

Amp is rated at 1500 watts per tower. Power is more like 800-1000. I've seen the speakers internals. The 10" driver weighs in at 38lbs.

In my theater room that's 25'by20'by18' the 7001 have max out of 118db at 40hz. Same 40hz test on pb2000 was 112db. It was closer down low. 20hz 7001 were 104db. Pb2000 was 102@20.

So that's just output. 7001 are sealed or have 4 10" passive radiators with 2 10" active drivers.

Against one ported 12". The 7001sc were just as good as pc12plus. Pc12plus had advantages from 15-30hz range. But above that 7001 were better.

Svs are nice subs but people don't know how good the better definitive subs are.

I heard a pb13ultra in a bass get together. Was matched up against in a competition against definitive trinity. Trinity was much better. Won in all categories even deep bass output
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post #13 of 104 Old 04-20-2017, 08:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Sigh. AVS is the ruin of me.

I have now been venturing in the $1k sub territory.

Options are:
-Dual PSA V1500
-Dual HSU VTF-15 MK2
-Dual Seaton MFW-15 Turbo-SS
-Single JTR Cap 1400 (will likely add a second one sometime in the future)

PSA and HSU are literally a few bucks apart. Seaton are brand new, blemished cabinets, but significantly cheaper. JTR...well it's a JTR...probably, likely overkill for my application.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anthongy817 View Post
Sigh. AVS is the ruin of me.

I have now been venturing in the $1k sub territory.

Options are:
-Dual PSA V1500
-Dual HSU VTF-15 MK2
-Dual Seaton MFW-15 Turbo-SS
-Single JTR Cap 1400 (will likely add a second one sometime in the future)

PSA and HSU are literally a few bucks apart. Seaton are brand new, blemished cabinets, but significantly cheaper. JTR...well it's a JTR...probably, likely overkill for my application.
Well, I don't think you will be disappointed in any of those. All of those manufacturers have great reputations. Going by what you said about pricing, probably the Seaton's are the way to go. Even if you can prove a is better than b, I don't see how any of those would be a bad choice.
If you can afford it, and have the space, obviously two JTR's is the way to go. They are going to be in another league.

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post #15 of 104 Old 04-20-2017, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by anthongy817 View Post
Sigh. AVS is the ruin of me.

I have now been venturing in the $1k sub territory.

Options are:
-Dual PSA V1500
-Dual HSU VTF-15 MK2
-Dual Seaton MFW-15 Turbo-SS
-Single JTR Cap 1400 (will likely add a second one sometime in the future)

PSA and HSU are literally a few bucks apart. Seaton are brand new, blemished cabinets, but significantly cheaper. JTR...well it's a JTR...probably, likely overkill for my application.
Very nice choices!

I'd pass on the jtr and seaton. Nice subs but more money and two hsu vtf15 would be such a huge upgrade over svs mentioned. Also 2 vtf15 would outperform one cap 1400. About same price also. If you want two cap1400 you could have 4 hsu. Seaton is nice I've only had one 7-8 years ago. Seaton submersive or something like that. Dual opposed 15" drivers. Was nice but epik empire was better. Than I had Psa xs30. It was better also.

Go hsu. Looks better than Psa a you can really tune it!!!
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post #16 of 104 Old 04-21-2017, 05:43 AM
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Also, if you buy a new one at $499 directly from SVS within 12 months you can get another new one for $449!

Can you show me where this information is on the SVS site? I see deals for buying duals now and the ability to upgrade a sub within a year if you want. But not this.
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post #17 of 104 Old 04-21-2017, 07:00 AM
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Can you show me where this information is on the SVS site? I see deals for buying duals now and the ability to upgrade a sub within a year if you want. But not this.



Edit* I mean dual sub discount SVS offers if the second is ordered within a year.

Last edited by basshead81; 04-21-2017 at 07:30 AM.
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post #18 of 104 Old 04-21-2017, 07:08 AM
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Isn't the return customer discount 5%, which would equate to $475 on a $499.99 sub?
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post #19 of 104 Old 04-21-2017, 07:29 AM
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Isn't the return customer discount 5%, which would equate to $475 on a $499.99 sub?
I meant you get the dual sub discount if you order another within the same year. Return customer is infinite after your first SVS purchase.
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post #20 of 104 Old 04-21-2017, 07:32 AM
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I meant you get the dual sub discount if you order another within the same year. Return customer is infinite after your first SVS purchase.
Ah. I did not realize the dual sub discount was good for 12 months. I'm assuming it can't be stacked with the 5% returning customer discount?
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post #21 of 104 Old 04-21-2017, 08:12 AM
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Ah. I did not realize the dual sub discount was good for 12 months. I'm assuming it can't be stacked with the 5% returning customer discount?
correct
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post #22 of 104 Old 04-21-2017, 11:45 AM
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Ok so.. correct me if I'm wrong. I've researched all this before finally sticking with dual PB-1000's. From what I can tell is you really can't compare Hsu with SVS. The VTF-1 MK3 is a 10" 250w RMS 25hz sub for $423 (with shipping). I would take the Speedwoofer 10s (350w RMS and below 24hz) for $399 over it. The VTF-2 is a 12" 350w RMS 18hz sub for $604 with shipping. The PB-1000 is a 10" 300w RMS 19hz sub for $499. So it's not really "apples to apples". Dual VTF-2 MK5's will cost you $1,208 vs $950 for dual PB-1000's. So yes, it should be a better sub with more output if you want to spend $258 more. So in my opinion dual PB-1000 is probably the best dual subs that get below 19hz for under $1,000. The VTF-2 MK5 12" sub really is inbetween the PB-1000 and the PB-2000. So as we all know, it's all about what you're willing to spend.
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post #23 of 104 Old 04-21-2017, 11:55 AM
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The speedwoofer is not +/-3db @ 24hz. The OEM marketed as that but 3rd party testing from 2 different sources shows it to be be +/-3db @ 29hz. I would go with HSU, at least they publish accurate specs.
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post #24 of 104 Old 04-21-2017, 02:00 PM
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Pb1000 does go down to 19hz.

True +|- 3db on that is more like 40hz-80hz. Which is 100-103db. 19hz is like 90db.

If you play in the 80db range yes it's accurate from 19hz an up. Than are about 90% of all subs. Lol

The vtf2 mk5 is probably better than pb2000. Output is very similar but hsu has way better tuning.

Vtf3 mk5 is HUGE step up from those. Better than pb12plus.

Svs in there prices now reflect shipping, warranty, and now huge marketing. These svs are all Chinese subs too. Even says on box engineered and designed in PROC. Peoples Republic of China.

There is really no reason to buy an SVs sub anymore. Two jbl es250p can be found for $400. Would easily outperform two pb1000.

I'm not saying svs are horrible by any means. Just you can do way better. Rythmik lv12r is better than pb1000 easily too. I wouldn't recommend that sub because of it's limited output. But still way more than pb1000.

We had a bass get together about 2-3years ago. All these subs were tested. Svs pb1000 was second to last in output and sound. Beating the bic f12. Just would like more people to be informed on what you're buying.

Good luck into your home theater bliss!!!!
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post #25 of 104 Old 04-21-2017, 03:12 PM
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Yes. Not just equal to pb2000 but easily outperforms. The bp7001sc have much better drivers and way more power on tap.

Amp is rated at 1500 watts per tower. Power is more like 800-1000. I've seen the speakers internals. The 10" driver weighs in at 38lbs.

In my theater room that's 25'by20'by18' the 7001 have max out of 118db at 40hz. Same 40hz test on pb2000 was 112db. It was closer down low. 20hz 7001 were 104db. Pb2000 was 102@20.

So that's just output. 7001 are sealed or have 4 10" passive radiators with 2 10" active drivers.

Against one ported 12". The 7001sc were just as good as pc12plus. Pc12plus had advantages from 15-30hz range. But above that 7001 were better.

Svs are nice subs but people don't know how good the better definitive subs are.

I heard a pb13ultra in a bass get together. Was matched up against in a competition against definitive trinity. Trinity was much better. Won in all categories even deep bass output
Passive radiators ARE ports. In other words it's just a more compact way to make a ported sub.

My MSRP $1500 SC8000 is a disappointment for the price. Not even in the same solar system as my PC12+.

I'd have to see a data-bass test on the Trinity to believe it has more deep bass output than a PB13U.

In general, DT subs are poor performers for their price with grossly exaggerated specs.

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post #26 of 104 Old 04-21-2017, 03:15 PM
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Very nice choices!

I'd pass on the jtr and seaton. Nice subs but more money and two hsu vtf15 would be such a huge upgrade over svs mentioned. Also 2 vtf15 would outperform one cap 1400. About same price also. If you want two cap1400 you could have 4 hsu. Seaton is nice I've only had one 7-8 years ago. Seaton submersive or something like that. Dual opposed 15" drivers. Was nice but epik empire was better. Than I had Psa xs30. It was better also.

Go hsu. Looks better than Psa a you can really tune it!!!
Ummm, no they won't. Not at any frequency.

Maybe it's because you weren't using a $4K power cable with the Seaton.

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post #27 of 104 Old 04-21-2017, 04:00 PM
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Very nice choices!

I'd pass on the jtr and seaton. Nice subs but more money and two hsu vtf15 would be such a huge upgrade over svs mentioned. Also 2 vtf15 would outperform one cap 1400. About same price also. If you want two cap1400 you could have 4 hsu. Seaton is nice I've only had one 7-8 years ago. Seaton submersive or something like that. Dual opposed 15" drivers. Was nice but epik empire was better. Than I had Psa xs30. It was better also.

Go hsu. Looks better than Psa a you can really tune it!!!
Ummm, no they won't. Not at any frequency.

Maybe it's because you weren't using a $4K power cable with the Seaton.
Not sure what the power cable remark was about. Maybe you were making fun of me. I do use different power cables in my setup.

Maybe I got carried away. The seaton was a nice subwoofer. Just couldn't justify the money for the performance. Also epik empire had more output from 40-110hz. Was a output monster for $900. To bad the amps fell apart. Epik was a sad story. I had a epik conquest. Was amazing sub!!

I just finished doing testing on my friends cap 1400. Nice sub. In his room we recorded output to 124db. 115@25hz. Really amazing for a single sub.

We tested dual rythmik fv15hp before that. 128db @ 40hz. 116@25. Deep stuff below 20 doesn't matter as much to me. Once you've had subs of higher level we tend to realize 10-18hz isnt a selling point and just makes the room rattle.

I haven't tested hsu vtf15. But I did test my dual hsu vtf3 mk5 hp. They were only 3-4db less across the board than my rythmik. Amazing value. Now the vtf 15 will be very similar to vtf3 from 40 and up. But from 40 down the vtf15 are very similar to my rythmik.

So that would put dual vtf15 ahead of one cap. You'll have much better sound across the room with two subs as well.
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post #28 of 104 Old 04-21-2017, 04:16 PM
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Yes. Not just equal to pb2000 but easily outperforms. The bp7001sc have much better drivers and way more power on tap.

Amp is rated at 1500 watts per tower. Power is more like 800-1000. I've seen the speakers internals. The 10" driver weighs in at 38lbs.

In my theater room that's 25'by20'by18' the 7001 have max out of 118db at 40hz. Same 40hz test on pb2000 was 112db. It was closer down low. 20hz 7001 were 104db. Pb2000 was 102@20.

So that's just output. 7001 are sealed or have 4 10" passive radiators with 2 10" active drivers.

Against one ported 12". The 7001sc were just as good as pc12plus. Pc12plus had advantages from 15-30hz range. But above that 7001 were better.

Svs are nice subs but people don't know how good the better definitive subs are.

I heard a pb13ultra in a bass get together. Was matched up against in a competition against definitive trinity. Trinity was much better. Won in all categories even deep bass output
Passive radiators ARE ports. In other words it's just a more compact way to make a ported sub.

My MSRP $1500 SC8000 is a disappointment for the price. Not even in the same solar system as my PC12+.

I'd have to see a data-bass test on the Trinity to believe it has more deep bass output than a PB13U.

In general, DT subs are poor performers for their price with grossly exaggerated specs.
I doubt data bass will ever do a test on a trinity. I wish they would. I'll try to look but they use to have a thread 10 years ago or so that had trinity as number 4 or 5 of best subs on the planet you could buy.

Definitive subs are very good performers if you get the older line. I can't say anything about the newer subs.

Only experience with new line was the bp8080, cs8080, sr8080 set that I got last year than sold.

The bp8080 probably as a pair are better than sc8000 sub. My bp2002tl make more bass than bp8080. Also my bp7001sc have way more bass than bp8080. Better sounding bass too. Tighter deeper. If you had supercube 1, supercube reference or trinity you wouldn't say they aren't good.

That trinity sub weighs over 220lbs. Amazing product. Just was way to expensive for what it was. At $6000 a pair for 2 trinity is ridiculous.

Also the pc12+ was tested. Didn't do well at all. You can go look at reviews and output numbers and they are good for a 12" driver. But your going to get 20hz output around 103-104. Max output around 113-115. My 7001 have more max output from 40-100hz.

Also radiators aren't ports. Lol. They do a similar thing of releasing pressure of the volume of the box. They are a way to control overall volume of bass distribution. Definitely not a port. The definitive radiators responded well to room gain.

Also I'm not trying to offend you in anyway. Just trying to share my experience with all of the gear that I've tried and tested.
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post #29 of 104 Old 04-21-2017, 08:25 PM
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Svs in there prices now reflect shipping, warranty, and now huge marketing. These svs are all Chinese subs too. Even says on box engineered and designed in PROC. Peoples Republic of China.

There is really no reason to buy an SVs sub anymore.

IMHO,SVS still make good value oriented subs, some other ID subs obviously offer more dB per dollar, but that doesn't mean the SVS offerings are in any way bad. The PB-2000 has a high quality driver (a modified Peerless XXLS 12), 500w RMS plate amp, well tuned flat response, near bullet-proof limiters, well built enclosure, metal grill, free delivery, 5 years warranty, Bill of Rights etc etc, all for $800USD - I would consider that good value for money. And if you're only getting 102dB @ 20hz max in-room out of a PB-2000 then something is up- they have been tested to do over 103dB @ 20hz in RMS 2m Ground Plane testing - with boundary gain + room gain you should be able to get at least that.

As to the "made in china" stuff, SVS subs are still designed and engineered in the US, but built in China. I am pretty sure HSU subs are likely BUILT in the PROC but designed in the US by Dr Hsu, so it's a wash there. If you really want USA made look at PSA and JTR.


In the grand scheme of things, dual PB-2000's for $1500USD (delivered + all the perks) will likely be more than enough for 99% of people. Yes, the SVS 1000 and 2000 series are probably $50-$100 over-priced (when compared to some other ID companies offerings ) but again, in the grand scheme of things, this is buggar all $$ and will be quickly forgotten once you start enjoying them.
Just my 2c
Jamie

TV: Panasonic P65ST60 AVR: Denon X-1000 Speakers: PSA MTM-210C, PSA MTM-210's, PSA MT-110's Subwoofers: SVS PB-2000 x 4
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post #30 of 104 Old 04-21-2017, 08:54 PM
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I agree with almost everything you said. When svs was sold about 8-9 years ago. Chinese company bought them. The subs they sell are all made in China. Engineering and development is done by a lot of people all over the world. The majority of engineering is in China. So they were once a great American company. Now they aren't. Yeah hsu uses Chinese amps but most of the id companies do. The svs pb2000 isn't a bad sub and a lot of people on avs have brand loyalty to Them.

Can't tell you why that's all I got in room. It's not far off their claims though. Pb2000 just isn't even in same league as vtf3 or any psa sub.

I totally agree with their great customer service.

With saying that every time I order new hsu even if it's 5 years later they give me return customer discount. When I bought Psa subs Tom bought my rythmik off me. Lol. Gives me a discount everytime as well. Than rythmik is so easy as well. Knocks %10 percent of for return business.

So they are all great. Even back in the day chad from epik would deliver to people's house and set it up and run eq.

Svs is a good starter sub for home theater enthusiasts. I just don't like how the money is sent overseas and they have gotten rich of all of us. Not for being the best but for tricky marketing.
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