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post #1 of 175 Old 04-30-2017, 02:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Help me spend my money - Transducers

First some back story. My father in law is an electrician and general handyman. Since my wife and I have been married, he's probably done what would be the equivalent of $20k worth of various remodeling, electrical work, and more in our home. He's a great guy and doesn't ask us for, nor expect anything in return. His birthday is next Friday (5/5). He's been talking about getting transducers for his man cave/home theater for a while. He's been looking at very small/inexpensive ones. He only wants them for the one couch he uses in his home theater. I thought getting him those for his home theater would be a nice gift for him.

We are on a budget with the current bathroom remodel we're working on still costing us in the range of $12k not including the labor we are doing ourselves. So we can't go nuts, but my wife and I were thinking a $300 max would be a good range for these. So, can anyone recommend a pair of transducers and amp that can run them in that price range?

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post #2 of 175 Old 04-30-2017, 03:17 PM - Thread Starter
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post #3 of 175 Old 04-30-2017, 03:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok thinking the 4 transducers above with 4 of these. 1 for each. Little over budget but I think it would work well. https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...ifier--300-784
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post #4 of 175 Old 04-30-2017, 07:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post

That "kit" gets good reviews at PE: https://www.parts-express.com/4-aura...ndle--300-9000

For the wiring, you would wire the 4 shakers in a series parallel configuration and the amp will see a 4 ohm load and make max power.

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post #5 of 175 Old 04-30-2017, 08:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
That "kit" gets good reviews at PE: https://www.parts-express.com/4-aura...ndle--300-9000



For the wiring, you would wire the 4 shakers in a series parallel configuration and the amp will see a 4 ohm load and make max power.


Oh wow didn't see that kit! It's back logged until 5/30 on there. I wound up buying 4 of those shakers and 4 Dayton Audio SA70s, one for each. Maybe a little overkill but I can get them in time for my father in laws bday on Friday and it's about $100 more. Wondering if I should instead get this kit now....
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post #6 of 175 Old 04-30-2017, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
Oh wow didn't see that kit! It's back logged until 5/30 on there. I wound up buying 4 of those shakers and 4 Dayton Audio SA70s, one for each. Maybe a little overkill but I can get them in time for my father in laws bday on Friday and it's about $100 more. Wondering if I should instead get this kit now....

You should just get the 250 watt amp. It will send 63 watts to each shaker. So basically the same power as the 4 separate amps, but cheaper and takes up less space.
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post #7 of 175 Old 04-30-2017, 08:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
You should just get the 250 watt amp. It will send 63 watts to each shaker. So basically the same power as the 4 separate amps, but cheaper and takes up less space.


Hmm you're right but the 250 watt amp is $415+ elsewhere and not available in time from the link you provided. I paid about that for the 4 70 watt amps and 4 shakers. Added benefit of not delivering and wasting electric when no one is sitting on the other couch which will be majority of the time. I may just leave it. My father in law will totally think it will look cool in his man cave in the corner between the two couches to have those 4 amps mounted in the wall.
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post #8 of 175 Old 04-30-2017, 08:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Help me spend my money - Transducers

Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
You should just get the 250 watt amp. It will send 63 watts to each shaker. So basically the same power as the 4 separate amps, but cheaper and takes up less space.


You know what scratch my last comment you're definitely right. The other amps + needed cords and splitter is an additional almost $200. Just emailed their customer service to cancel the 4 SA70s. Ordered the 250w.

How do I daisy chain them together. Does the powered out from 1st go to the powered into second and so on down the line?
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post #9 of 175 Old 04-30-2017, 08:40 PM
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pair 2 together in parallel and then series the 2 pairs??? cant picture it, just initial thought.

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post #10 of 175 Old 04-30-2017, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
You know what scratch my last comment you're definitely right. The other amps + needed cords and splitter is an additional almost $200. Just emailed their customer service to cancel the 4 SA70s. Ordered the 250w.

How do I daisy chain them together. Does the powered out from 1st go to the powered into second and so on down the line?

Yeah, the amp is in stock: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...ifier--300-803

Wire them series parallel. Like this:

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post #11 of 175 Old 04-30-2017, 08:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus33 View Post
Yeah, the amp is in stock: https://www.parts-express.com/dayton...ifier--300-803



Wire them series parallel. Like this:





Awesome thanks so much! Brought me back to my college physics classes there! Ordered the 250w. Should be here by may 3rd. 🤞
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post #12 of 175 Old 04-30-2017, 09:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
First some back story. My father in law is an electrician and general handyman. Since my wife and I have been married, he's probably done what would be the equivalent of $20 worth of various remodeling, electrical work, and more in our home.
$20? Typo?
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post #13 of 175 Old 04-30-2017, 09:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Help me spend my money - Transducers

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$20? Typo?


Whoops! Thanks for catching that. Those Ks make all the difference, don't they? Fixed in OP.
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post #14 of 175 Old 04-30-2017, 09:55 PM
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$20k… now that's love!
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post #15 of 175 Old 04-30-2017, 09:58 PM
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everyone needs a family electrician in their lives. mine still charge $200/hr plus per diem.

so I relay on youtube

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post #16 of 175 Old 05-01-2017, 04:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Help me spend my money - Transducers

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$20k… now that's love!


He's been at my house every Saturday for the last 8 weeks helping me with demolition, plumbing, flooring, putting durrock up, tile, lights, outlets, switches, you name it. The transducers and amp don't feel like nearly enough thanks. He wouldn't take money but he'll take these for a birthday gift!
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post #17 of 175 Old 05-01-2017, 10:19 AM
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citsur86,

Coming in late to the party here. Too bad that because really....your off to an excessive start as far as amplification, and the Tactiles chosen are really anemic in performance, and are being slated to receive about 5x the power needed to blow them up. Of course your own use and expectations will govern just how good or bad things get.

I've been using Tactile Transducers for Bass Supplementation since 1978-79

All things "Transducer"...tactile or otherwise, have been my focus for almost 40 years now. I've interacted with every Mfg from Aura to Clark to Solid Drive to , anything worthy of note from PE.....so on and so on. Some have called on me for design advice...others simply taken older concepts and cloned them as best they could. Doesn't matter....I know what really works and what types / brands are either worthy or outright shams you should run screaming the other direction from.

I don't know what at this juncture I can do / add, except advise you on what the truly correct way to match up impedance would be, install the chosen "Shakers" most effectively (Chairs...Floor....Platform? ) or...."shake it all up" and send you down a "best possible path"....and still do it for the least amount of money possible.

Amp choice is paramount....and what you've chosen is not ideally suited but any means.
Wiring done with the right Amp choice can be as simple as providing a 4 unit - 2 Ohm Parallel'd Load to a Amp costing almost 1/2 the amount you've spent, and providing +3x the stated power of your current choice.

When it comes to effectively producing Tactile Effects, the availability of really ample amounts of "CLEAN" power, achieving "CORRECTLY" produced LFE frequencies, and doing it all using Tactiles that are not essentially "junk" is all of utmost importance. Fudge on any aspect of the equation and there is no way to overcome the poorer results.

I do have a lot of other things I'm involved in that take a capricious amount of my time, but I saw your post when I came on to overview AVS Members' comments about the Outlaw Ultra X13 Sub and felt compelled to intercede.

If you want more input from my direction, just post or PM at your preference. My time is yourTime as much as I can make such possible. Questions that require time sensitive responses should be emailed or PM'd, and the responses then posted.

And remember...there is a real difference between accurately conveyed LFE "Tactile Resonance", and inaccurate Bass "thump and bump...shake and rattle".

Tactile "LFE" should not be a acronym for receiving a "Low Freq. Enema".

"They said it couldn't be done. Well, we sure showed 'em otherwise!"
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post #18 of 175 Old 05-01-2017, 10:52 AM
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I didn't see this thread in time, otherwise I would have highly recommended: https://www.parts-express.com/2-butt...ndle--300-9010

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post #19 of 175 Old 05-01-2017, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
citsur86,

Coming in late to the party here. Too bad that because really....your off to an excessive start as far as amplification, and the Tactiles chosen are really anemic in performance, and are being slated to receive about 5x the power needed to blow them up. Of course your own use and expectations will govern just how good or bad things get.

I've been using Tactile Transducers for Bass Supplementation since 1978-79

All things "Transducer"...tactile or otherwise, have been my focus for almost 40 years now. I've interacted with every Mfg from Aura to Clark to Solid Drive to , anything worthy of note from PE.....so on and so on. Some have called on me for design advice...others simply taken older concepts and cloned them as best they could. Doesn't matter....I know what really works and what types / brands are either worthy or outright shams you should run screaming the other direction from.

I don't know what at this juncture I can do / add, except advise you on what the truly correct way to match up impedance would be, install the chosen "Shakers" most effectively (Chairs...Floor....Platform? ) or...."shake it all up" and send you down a "best possible path"....and still do it for the least amount of money possible.

Amp choice is paramount....and what you've chosen is not ideally suited but any means.
Wiring done with the right Amp choice can be as simple as providing a 4 unit - 2 Ohm Parallel'd Load to a Amp costing almost 1/2 the amount you've spent, and providing +3x the stated power of your current choice.

When it comes to effectively producing Tactile Effects, the availability of really ample amounts of "CLEAN" power, achieving "CORRECTLY" produced LFE frequencies, and doing it all using Tactiles that are not essentially "junk" is all of utmost importance. Fudge on any aspect of the equation and there is no way to overcome the poorer results.

I do have a lot of other things I'm involved in that take a capricious amount of my time, but I saw your post when I came on to overview AVS Members' comments about the Outlaw Ultra X13 Sub and felt compelled to intercede.

If you want more input from my direction, just post or PM at your preference. My time is yourTime as much as I can make such possible. Questions that require time sensitive responses should be emailed or PM'd, and the responses then posted.

And remember...there is a real difference between accurately conveyed LFE "Tactile Resonance", and inaccurate Bass "thump and bump...shake and rattle".

Tactile "LFE" should not be a acronym for receiving a "Low Freq. Enema".
Thanks for the intro. I did cancel the order for the 4 Dayton Audio SA70s and instead went with this bundle - though I had to order the amp separate from parts express and the transducers from Madisound to get them on time for my father in law's bday. I had planned to wire it up in a series parallel config as mentioned above - and have the Subwoofer Output on the AVR split between the Subwoofer Amp and this Dayton Amp.

If there is a better wiring configuration you could share, that would be great.

Also - I spent $355 shipped for the Amp and 4 Shakers. If you could provide suggestions on other Amps/Shakers that would be in that price range, I am definitely all ears. I'm all about real Tactile Resonance vs. thump and bump. However, if the price to surpass thump and bump exceeds my budget, I may have to pass. These are for my father in law and he does not have an audiophiles ear, nor does he care to. He is perfectly happy with his $30 per speaker man cave theater setup and it's "good enough" sound. So we have to keep everything in perspective. I'm always up for maximizing my return on investment for him though.

Keep in mind - everything I purchased can be returned - now its just a matter of whether I can get what you might suggest by Friday and really how much of a quality difference we're talking.
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post #20 of 175 Old 05-01-2017, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I didn't see this thread in time, otherwise I would have highly recommended: https://www.parts-express.com/2-butt...ndle--300-9010
It would cost me $600 to buy 2 of these bundles so my father-in-law could have both couches covered. I've read Buttkickers are higher quality than the Aurasound AST-2B-4s, but they're more expensive for it too. The Aurasound AST-2B-4s reviews really sold me on them for the price.
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post #21 of 175 Old 05-01-2017, 04:53 PM
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I didn't read your post closely enough to register that you wanted to shake to couches.

Still if I had, I would have advised you to go my suggested solution. Wire up one couch good and leave the other couch plain. There is probably always someone that would prefer to not be shaken.

My wife has not appreciated any of my subwoofer and speakers, but she does really like the 2 Buttkickers on the sofa. One Buttkicker wasn't enough. Two did the trick. Now she is telling the relatives how good it is.

Would love to read @MississippiMan 's take on what is good and isn't. Maybe you can start a thread.

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post #22 of 175 Old 05-01-2017, 05:06 PM
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For budget ones, the clarks seem to get decent reviews.......everyone seems really happy with the crowsons......

The crowsons are few bucks more than you want to spend..........thats the way with everything audio related....the good ones are always a few more bucks than planned, but usually well worth it.

Link to budget Home Theater build

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/19-ded...i-version.html
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post #23 of 175 Old 05-05-2017, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Does it matter if I go LFE preout from the AVR into the Left Line In white only? Or do I need to split from AVR into the red and white low level line in on the amp?
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post #24 of 175 Old 05-06-2017, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by citsur86 View Post
It would cost me $600 to buy 2 of these bundles so my father-in-law could have both couches covered. I've read Buttkickers are higher quality than the Aurasound AST-2B-4s, but they're more expensive for it too. The Aurasound AST-2B-4s reviews really sold me on them for the price.
The Aura Pro are good solid transducers. The Clark, Buttkicker and Crowson are higher watt TT's. With the price of the Aura Pro's, it is easy to double up on them and put 4 in a couch and use an I Nuke 1000 or 3000 DSP amp to drive them.
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post #25 of 175 Old 05-16-2017, 05:44 AM - Thread Starter
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Update for everyone - we successfully got the transducers installed at my father-in-law's house last week, after a ton of trial and error on placement. The same night I ordered an SA-100 and 2 Aurasound Transducers for my main couch at home. Got them yesterday and will be installing them tonight. @zeus33 - Need some help with wiring. The following worked for 4 aurashakers connected to a 250W SPA250 amp.



Would the 2 connected to the 100W amp then go like this?:



or this?:

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post #26 of 175 Old 05-16-2017, 06:32 AM
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I believe the aurasound shakers are 4 ohm, so you'd have to use the top diagram (wired in series) and present the amp with an 8 ohm load.
I don't think the SA100 could handle 2 ohm if you wired them in parallel.
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post #27 of 175 Old 05-16-2017, 06:34 AM - Thread Starter
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Help me spend my money - Transducers

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I believe the aurasound shakers are 4 ohm, so you'd have to use the top diagram (wired in series) and present the amp with an 8 ohm load.

I don't think the SA100 could handle 2 ohm if you wired them in parallel.


That's what I was thinking. But the amp specs say: 75 watts RMS @ 8 ohms, 100 watts RMS @ 4 ohms. Does this mean the shakers will only be getting a combined 75 watts? They're rated for 50w RMS each so I'd like to get the full 100W out to them.

Is there a way to get them to present the amp 4 ohms?
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post #28 of 175 Old 05-16-2017, 06:50 AM
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The second diagram would result in a 8 Ohm load...not 4 Ohms...because each Aura Tactile starts out as being a 4 Ohm device

And the Tactiles are 4 Ohms ea, so the third diagram will create a 2 Ohm load.

The top diagram produces a 4 Ohm Load because it parallels two Series loads of 4 Ohm devices (2 x 4 Ohms = 8 Ohms)
The Parallel then divides the 8 Ohm load by 2 down to 4 Ohms.

As discussed previously, you cannot change or alter Ohm's Law.

Higher Impedance loads will draw less power...Lower Impedance loads draw more.
Series a Higher load to a lower Load and the Higher load will draw more.

Consider advice that comes from someone who has often wired Parallel -Series loads.

Just like in the first diagram, you are simply 2 Tactiles short of being able to present a 4 Ohm Load.
2 4 Ohm loads in Paralell = 2 Ohms, and then when placed in a Series = 4 Ohms.

Always Parallel before a Series to assure the strongest possible Circuit.

And let me ad this. If you attempt to get the full output out of that PE Amp, and try to play the Tactiles at that level, they will not last long...if at all

A Series is only as strong as a single device in the series, so if your Tactiles are rated at 50 watts (...and they are not going to be able to sustain that at all....) then playing the Amp at 100 watts will overdrive any single Tactile by 100%.

Good luck.

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Last edited by MississippiMan; 05-16-2017 at 06:57 AM.
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post #29 of 175 Old 05-16-2017, 06:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post
The second diagram would result in a 8 Ohm load...not 4 Ohms...because each Aura Tactile starts out as being a 4 Ohm device

And the Tactiles are 4 Ohms ea, so the third diagram will create a 2 Ohm load.

The top diagram produces a 4 Ohm Load because it parallels two Series loads of 4 Ohm devices (2 x 4 Ohms = 8 Ohms)
The Parallel then divides the 8 Ohm load by 2 down to 4 Ohms.

As discussed previously, you cannot change or alter Ohm's Law.

Higher Impedance loads will draw less power...Lower Impedance loads draw more.
Series a Higher load to a lower Load and the Higher load will draw more.

Consider advice that comes from someone who has often wired Parallel -Series loads.

Just like in the first diagram, you are simply 2 Tactiles short of being able to present a 4 Ohm Load.
2 4 Ohm loads in Paralell = 2 Ohms, and then when placed in a Series = 4 Ohms.

Always Parallel before a Series to assure the strongest possible Circuit.

And let me ad this. If you attempt to get the full output out of that PE Amp, and try to play the Tactiles at that level, they will not last long...if at all

A Series is only as strong as a single device in the series, so if your Tactiles are rated at 50 watts (...and they are not going to be able to sustain that at all....) then playing the Amp at 100 watts will overdrive any single Tactile by 100%.

Good luck.
Understood - so you're saying the series (second diagram) is the only way to do it and get the 75 watts split between the two?
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post #30 of 175 Old 05-16-2017, 07:15 AM
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The diagram below is your ONLY choice if the Amp cannot / will not support a 2 Ohm load. You will have to accept the lower wattage output it delivers into 8 Ohms.

................except the Load is really 8 Ohms

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