Power Sound Audio's New Flagship: S7201 Quad-18" - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 492 Old 07-29-2017, 01:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Power Sound Audio's New Flagship: S7201 Quad-18"

The new Power Sound Audio S7201 flagship sub packs a 4000W amp + four 18" drivers (in push-pull and force-cancelling alignments) into a single sealed enclosure. The company says it offers the "absolute best-in-class performance from an American made subwoofer."

Click this link to read more: Power Sound Audio S7201 Subwoofer: A New Quad-18″ Flagship
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post #2 of 492 Old 07-29-2017, 01:32 PM
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The cabinet is built from baltic birch ply, not MDF. AFAIK
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post #3 of 492 Old 07-29-2017, 01:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
The cabinet is built from baltic birch ply, not MDF. AFAIK
Fixed, thx.

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post #4 of 492 Old 07-29-2017, 01:59 PM
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Hmmm. Very interesting design. Can't wait to hear more about it's performance. Perhaps we can get one over to Ricci @ databass.com.

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post #5 of 492 Old 07-29-2017, 02:13 PM
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Can't remember the last time I was tempted to actually buy a subwoofer instead of DIY-ing it.
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post #6 of 492 Old 07-29-2017, 02:16 PM
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Like anything else, could probably DIY for less than half the cost.
It is, after all, just a big sealed box.
Okay, a VERY BIG sealed box.
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post #7 of 492 Old 07-29-2017, 02:47 PM
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Interesting graph, any possibility to also include the legend so we know what each line represents?

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post #8 of 492 Old 07-29-2017, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
The cabinet is built from baltic birch ply, not MDF. AFAIK
2-300% more expensive than MDF....
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post #9 of 492 Old 07-29-2017, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastButNotLeast View Post
Like anything else, could probably DIY for less than half the cost.
It is, after all, just a big sealed box.
Okay, a VERY BIG sealed box.
Michael
Sticking with a 4kw Speakerpower amp for $1000 and say four um18 drivers for $275 each, you would be at about $2100 in parts before the cabinet. I imagine the um18 outperforms the new PSA 18" driver but the latter hasn't been tested afaik.
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post #10 of 492 Old 07-29-2017, 03:33 PM
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Will this be enough to fill my 600 cubic foot theater? I'm currently using a Bose acustimas.



Looks amazing. Do they sell wife convincing kits?
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post #11 of 492 Old 07-29-2017, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironmikey12 View Post
Will this be enough to fill my 600 cubic foot theater? I'm currently using a Bose acustimas.



Looks amazing. Do they sell wife convincing kits?
Not hardly, you need to put one in each corner which will leave you just enough room for a beanbag chair.

And as far as wife convincing kits, not going to go there.
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post #12 of 492 Old 07-29-2017, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
2-300% more expensive than MDF....
I believe Tom V. stated a while ago that through their cabinet vendor BB is not twice as much as MDF let alone 3x.
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post #13 of 492 Old 07-29-2017, 04:18 PM
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So apart from diy, in the commercial arena competition (sealed at $3500-$4000) would seem to be the JTR S2, dual S1s, and a master slave pair of Mariana DSS18s (single 4kw speakerpower amp driving 2 very high performance drivers).

Edited to add dual S1s.

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post #14 of 492 Old 07-29-2017, 04:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I believe Tom V. stated a while ago that through their cabinet vendor BB is not twice as much as MDF let alone 3x.
Yeah was just refering to the JTR site: "Baltic Birch (several times stronger and more expensive than MDF)".
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post #15 of 492 Old 07-29-2017, 04:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
Yeah was just refering to the JTR site: "Baltic Birch (several times stronger and more expensive than MDF)".
It could just be bad wording order. I.E., more expensive and several times stronger than MDF.
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post #16 of 492 Old 07-29-2017, 04:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
2-300% more expensive than MDF....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marc Alexander View Post
I believe Tom V. stated a while ago that through their cabinet vendor BB is not twice as much as MDF let alone 3x.
Tom said the decision was based on weight, the cost is not that different from MDF.

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post #17 of 492 Old 07-29-2017, 04:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pradeep2 View Post
"Baltic Birch (several times stronger and more expensive than MDF)".
Cost is about the same, strength versus mass and density...you can make an argument either way for what is the best material really. At the end of the day if its not a measurable benefit, why worry about it..

We went BB because a top priority was saving weight.

Also, "material cost" is a small, small fraction of completed cabinet cost. You can have $80 worth of material in a $1000 (OEM cost) cabinet. So double the material cost and you might end up at $1060 instead of $1000. So "DOUBLE!!!" can sound impressive like "no expensive spared". But it just means a 6% increase in the cabinet cost. Which is typically 1/3rd or so of the total costs involved to build/box/ship. So now it is a 2% difference.

EDIT---before I forget the +/- 3dB doesn't extend out to 200hz on this one. More like 160hz or so. Not going to be an audible difference either way just saw the OP.

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post #18 of 492 Old 07-29-2017, 05:22 PM
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Push-pull and opposed is interesting. Do the slots add to the the overall output or do they require EQ to cut down any peaks they impart? Wondering what the design tradeoffs were here.
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post #19 of 492 Old 07-29-2017, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
Cost is about the same, strength versus mass and density...you can make an argument either way for what is the best material really. At the end of the day if its not a measurable benefit, why worry about it..

We went BB because a top priority was saving weight.

Also, "material cost" is a small, small fraction of completed cabinet cost. You can have $80 worth of material in a $1000 (OEM cost) cabinet. So double the material cost and you might end up at $1060 instead of $1000. So "DOUBLE!!!" can sound impressive like "no expensive spared". But it just means a 6% increase in the cabinet cost. Which is typically 1/3rd or so of the total costs involved to build/box/ship. So now it is a 2% difference.

EDIT---before I forget the +/- 3dB doesn't extend out to 200hz on this one. More like 160hz or so. Not going to be an audible difference either way just saw the OP.

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post #20 of 492 Old 07-29-2017, 06:05 PM
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Does this sub come with a fabric panel to hide the drivers (like most speakers)?

Packing a lot of sound into a small room.
268 square feet/2144 cubic feet
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post #21 of 492 Old 07-29-2017, 06:49 PM
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Does this sub come with a fabric panel to hide the drivers (like most speakers)?
No. There are no grill options for the S7201.

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post #22 of 492 Old 07-29-2017, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post
No. There are no grill options for the S7201.

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Good! Personally, there's no way in Hell I would want to hide those menacing-looking drivers.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Vodhanel View Post

We went BB because a top priority was saving weight.
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Oh come on, just admit "Baltic birch" sounds better than MDF, weight savings/cost differences aside. After all, there are certain perceptual expectations as the price point goes up.

Case in point, I worked in manufacturing for several years selling $2000+ kitchen faucets. We CNC'd everything in house from brass and stainless, except some of the small parts which were more cost effective to buy. One of those parts in some models was a mixing cartridge made of plastic and ceramic. Now, plastics are amazing materials and far superior to metals in TONS of applications, but you should've heard the pushback when someone finds out their $2000 faucet has "plastic" in it!

So yeah, Baltic birch. I mean, Walmart furniture is made from MDF, right?

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Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
Oh come on, just admit "Baltic birch" sounds better than MDF, weight savings/cost differences aside. After all, there are certain perceptual expectations as the price point goes up.
This sub may cost ~$4,000, but considering the size and scale of this behemoth, that's really not a high price for so much sub. I don't think anyone would expect the cabinet to be engineered to the nth degree at this level.
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post #25 of 492 Old 07-30-2017, 11:26 AM
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This sub may cost ~$4,000, but considering the size and scale of this behemoth, that's really not a high price for so much sub. I don't think anyone would expect the cabinet to be engineered to the nth degree at this level.
While I understand your point, and agree with it, about performance, don't kid yourself into thinking that's not very expensive. I would wager the percentage of consumers ready willing and able to pay $4k for a subwoofer is astonishingly small. How many consumer subs are more expensive than this?...a handful maybe? Compare that against likely hundreds which are less expensive and there absolutely should be high expectations with the cabinet and every other component for that matter.
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post #26 of 492 Old 07-30-2017, 12:03 PM
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Knowing Tom and PSA, this will be an awesome sub. I've heard two 3600s, and they're damn impressive.

But, there's just no way I could ever reasonably convince myself, or my wife, that $4000 is a good deal on ANY sub. I could build 16 VBSS and have money left over. Or, build 4 21" LLTs with money to spare.

I hope they sell well for PSA. I really do.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by javanpohl View Post
This sub may cost ~$4,000, but considering the size and scale of this behemoth, that's really not a high price for so much sub. I don't think anyone would expect the cabinet to be engineered to the nth degree at this level.

Having had both Seatons and my JTR I venture that the pricing of the ID vs DIY is not that of apple to apples. W/ the ID one is paying for the completed product in it's fully finished form, included w/ a warranty. I'd venture there would be little arguing w/ Jeff, Mark, Tom or other high quality ID designers if a product needs warranty work. In a DIY scenario the DIY is on their own to w/ with parts-express or the manufacturing Co to solve any issue. I"ve read but a few times of a PSA needing a warranty claim, upgrading or even a return and Tom is on the ball. I've never dealt w/ the guy but I read nothing but positive reviews of his CS.

And I would bet that @Tom Vodhanel has put in but at least a few minutes of his time designing a cab that will fit quad 18's and then getting an ICE amp to suit his needs then maybe a short lunch break to tune the DSP. After meeting w/ Seaton personally and having spoke w/ Jeff as well I feel comfortable thinking that the PE 18" sub does not have the tweaking and refinement that Tom or any of these other guys have in their offerings. Someone is paying for Tom's time and more importantly his experience in this field.

There is a give and take in these situations. I've considered DIY and at the end of the day I went ID in a trade off of spending a few more bucks for a refined and finished product. At least I can feel comfortable knowing that my $ went towards design vs marketing and show-room floorspace rental of any HTiB and I can reach out to my vendor for follow up assistance or warranty work.

These do seem bad@ass no doubt. I prefer ported but I would like to see what these things can accomplish should they ever show up at a GTG.

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post #28 of 492 Old 07-30-2017, 12:44 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by adrummingdude View Post
While I understand your point, and agree with it, about performance, don't kid yourself into thinking that's not very expensive. [B]I would wager the percentage of consumers ready willing and able to pay $4k for a subwoofer is astonishingly small. How many consumer subs are more expensive than this?...a handful maybe?v Compare that against likely hundreds which are less expensive and there absolutely should be high expectations with the cabinet and every other component for that matter.
Apparently enough to keep Paradigm, JL Audio, and scores of other companies in the "pricey subwoofer" business. Pre-order cost of the S7201 is the same as one JL F112 (V2), and the gap in capability is about as wide as the Grand Canyon (and I say this having two F112s in my system, lol). If you count the stuff you see at high-end shows as "consumer," then there a surprising number of subs that both cost more and do less than this one. It's not whether the S7201 is "expensive" it's whether the cost is high once you factor in price/performance.

As for the cabinet... anything that holds four 18" drivers had better be well made.
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post #29 of 492 Old 07-30-2017, 01:10 PM
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These do seem bad@ass no doubt. I prefer ported but I would like to see what these things can accomplish should they ever show up at a GTG.
I don't think we will see a S7201 "show-up" at a GTG. The GTG will have to come to the S7201 most likely.
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post #30 of 492 Old 07-30-2017, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
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I don't think we will see a S7201 "show-up" at a GTG. The GTG will have to come to the S7201 most likely.
LOL I hear that! 300lbs should be easy enough for two men to carry but it's easier said than done.

Carrying 2 SubM's up the stairs by myself was a PIA and as much I'd like to bring my 218 to a GTG it ain't gonna happen. The weight of the cab's on these big subs makes it cumbersome to move. I may be able to carry the weight but if the weight is unbalanced or the item so large its just imposing to carry.
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