woofer question - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 14 Old 09-24-2017, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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woofer question

I started getting back into the home audio thing recently. Mainly for a DIY subwoofer design.

My goal is to add tactile sensation to movies and music not necessarily in that order. I plan to (I know, why? because I want to ) attach the enclosure to the living room floor down in the unfinished basement and fire up at the living room. Modeling in WinISD after researching on here and Data-Bass shows the Dayton Ultimax-18 to be a good bang for the buck with an iNuke 3000 DSP bridged. Bought the amp. With parts express showing the deliver at Oct 5 at the time, I decided to practice and get a Stereo Integrity HT-18 and an iNuke 1000 bridged for my bookshelf stereo downstairs. Built a Marty cube for the SI. It's OK with the iNuke1000. WIth the 3000, the SI 18 starts to smell bad! So will leave the SI paired to the 1000.

I have the iNuke 3000 DSP waiting for a speaker. Here is the dilemma. The Dayton delivery at parts express was pushed back to and Oct 31. Now it is at a Nov 5. I am getting antsy. Thinking of maybe going with a SI HS-24 MKII 24″ Sub. At about 4x the price. Will the iNuke3000 bridged be enough? Is it worth it? To quote Mike Myers, Talk amongst yourselves, I'm feeling verklempt.
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post #2 of 14 Old 09-26-2017, 12:51 PM
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Hey. It all also depens on what signal do you feed your speakers with. If it's dybamic but generaly calm music, you can pick 2x stronger amp compared to speaker power input in RMS watts. For heavy content, you might need to go as low as 1/2 of the RMS rating. It really depends. With fair usage, buying amps able to deliver the RMS speaker power is okay. But the smell you talk about isn't. Sounds like overloading to me.
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post #3 of 14 Old 09-26-2017, 01:42 PM
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IMO if youre going to get the SI24 get a Speakerpower amp. Its more efficient and will drive it to its potential.

Patience is a virtue, but then again we all want moar eventually.
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post #4 of 14 Old 09-26-2017, 05:51 PM - Thread Starter
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"But the smell you talk about isn't. Sounds like overloading to me."

Agreed. That's why I connected to the 1000 and will leave it that way.
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post #5 of 14 Old 09-26-2017, 05:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petr Berka View Post
Hey. It all also depens on what signal do you feed your speakers with. If it's dybamic but generaly calm music, you can pick 2x stronger amp compared to speaker power input in RMS watts. For heavy content, you might need to go as low as 1/2 of the RMS rating. It really depends. With fair usage, buying amps able to deliver the RMS speaker power is okay. But the smell you talk about isn't. Sounds like overloading to me.
aAlso, thanks for the RMS power vs speaking rating rule of thumb.
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post #6 of 14 Old 09-26-2017, 05:54 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Gorilla Killa View Post
IMO if youre going to get the SI24 get a Speakerpower amp. Its more efficient and will drive it to its potential.

Patience is a virtue, but then again we all want moar eventually.
Got a speakerpower model recommendation?

Having just balanced the checking account, will probably try that patience thing. Delayed gratification is SO unsatisfying right now.
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post #7 of 14 Old 09-29-2017, 06:35 PM
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Yeah the nu3k will be too weak for the 24.... I mean: it will do for the short-term, but long-term... you'll very likely want a beefier amp.

The smell is from the glue and plastic that holds the voicecoil together, you probably (almost) cooked it. Don't be suprised if the SI-18 dies far early that expected as a result of that incident.

Bass in the >40hz region causes a lot of heating in voicecoils.
Bass in the <40hz region causes the driver to bottom out.

(But only at high power and/or for sustained durations of several seconds to several hours, depending on conditions.)

>40hz is the mid-bass region.
It sounds you could benefit from replacing the SI-18 with 2 P460's hanging off the nu1k @ 4-ohm.

Pro-woofers can handle mid-bass all day because their impedance curve is optimized for that, and it also helps that pro-woofer are 10db per watt louder than high-excursion ht/car subs.

PA woofers are often 20ohms in the mid-bass, where the car woofer will be 4-ohms, give or take. Thus way more current.
Voltage doesn't cause heat, current does.

That's why high-power lines are extremely-high voltage and run at room-temp, instead of high-current and thus 1000 degrees white-hot knives.
DC is even worse than AC in this regard; that's why car amps need quad-0 cables. Because: 12V and high-current.

99% of the power dumped into the voicecoil gets converted into heat, rather than generating EM force and thus cone acceleration, which only exacerbates the burnt-slinky syndrome.

It is always better to run at high voltage and high ohms, than high-current and low-ohms.
Ideally all woofers would be 8-ohm and amps would swing 400volts.
But transistors that can swing 400volts are really expensive, and so, 2 or 4ohm is more common and amps that only put out 100-150v (or 2-5ish kWs) are made.

The laws of thermodynamics and Ohm's law are a bia, huh?

Luckily we can just double the cones and amps for netting 6db louder. But you can only double-up so many times until you run out of money/space/circuit breakers. The house always wins and there is no free lunch.
Even in the DIY space, 99% give up after about 16 18's and 8 stereo amps.
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post #8 of 14 Old 10-02-2017, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
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"Don't be suprised if the SI-18 dies far early that expected as a result of that incident."
Already considered that. Worth the risk for $160 IMHO.

What are the P460s? Dayton Audio makes the RSS460. Searching the web for P460 brings up Boston Acoustics. I doubt that is what you meant.
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post #9 of 14 Old 10-03-2017, 07:10 AM
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post #10 of 14 Old 10-03-2017, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
attach the enclosure to the living room floor down in the unfinished basement and fire up at the living room
This sounds like your looking for a transducer/bass shaker


take a look at the buttkicker lfe it is the power hungry model and you have an inuke already

Audyssey is a great start, but not always a great finish.
Receiver:Marantz SR-5010, Speakers:Def Tech ST-8060 towers, CS-8040 center, SR-8040 surrounds, Pro Monitor 1000 heights
Subwoofer: SVS PB-2000
TV: 65" LG UG8700 remote: Harmony 1000
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post #11 of 14 Old 10-04-2017, 06:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by littlefoott View Post
This sounds like your looking for a transducer/bass shaker


take a look at the buttkicker lfe it is the power hungry model and you have an inuke already
"This sounds like your looking for a transducer/bass shaker"

Thought about that too. I want to try the subwoofer, at least to start. Ideally, I'd like both the sound AND tactile feel. (I guess I want it all, and NOW).
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post #12 of 14 Old 10-04-2017, 06:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Subwoofer: SVS PB-2000

How do you like yours?
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post #13 of 14 Old 10-05-2017, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by bebb View Post
How do you like yours?
I love it!
Here is a video of my Svs pb2000 blowing out a candle at 9 feet. Reference volume, sub is "not" running hot, its actually at -11.5 db set by audyessy on the avr.
this is the intro to edge of tommorow

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Audyssey is a great start, but not always a great finish.
Receiver:Marantz SR-5010, Speakers:Def Tech ST-8060 towers, CS-8040 center, SR-8040 surrounds, Pro Monitor 1000 heights
Subwoofer: SVS PB-2000
TV: 65" LG UG8700 remote: Harmony 1000

Last edited by littlefoott; 10-05-2017 at 07:24 PM.
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post #14 of 14 Old 10-06-2017, 05:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by littlefoott View Post
I love it!
Here is a video of my Svs pb2000 blowing out a candle at 9 feet. Reference volume, sub is "not" running hot, its actually at -11.5 db set by audyessy on the avr.
this is the intro to edge of tommorow

https://youtu.be/hN_Ts-5Z11w
Sweet.
Love the video. That's funny.
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