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post #271 of 9725 Old 12-27-2003, 12:33 PM
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VERY expensive. I wonder if I am better of going with an outboard EQ and an keeping my SVS??

Decisions, decisions....

-Brian

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post #272 of 9725 Old 12-27-2003, 12:43 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Bghead8che
VERY expensive. I wonder if I am better of going with an outboard EQ and an keeping my SVS??

Decisions, decisions....

-Brian

You already have a very high quality subwoofer, I think you would be better off just adding an eq. The most cost effective eq I know of is the Behringer Feedback Destroyer(BFD) but it takes much more user involvement in getting it setup, after you set it up once it's pretty simple but still never as simple as Velo's method. It wasn't too big a deal for me since I like to fiddle with things as much as possible. The BFD runs ~$120.

Another option to consider is the upcoming R-DES eq from **********. Not too much info has been released on this but after CES we should know a bit more.

http://fusionindesign.com/onix/consumer.html


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post #273 of 9725 Old 12-27-2003, 01:06 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Respectamonkeee
1st i hope you all enjoyed the holidays..i know i have

A quick question for Bruce/Curt and co if i may

Is there a possiblity of a stand alone unit to plug into a HGS series sub that would give EQ to these subs.I know yo can get a BFD but something with the graphic ease of the DD EQ would be a nice addition.

As a hgs18 user i'd like some slidy knobs to play with

Hi,
An interesting concept. Too early to tell but worth thinking about.
Thanks,
Curt
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post #274 of 9725 Old 12-27-2003, 01:20 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by Bghead8che
Hi Curt,

Glad I found this thread.

My room is 22 X 22 with vaulted ceilings and several large openings to other rooms. Would a single DD-15 be adequate? How about a single DD-18? I could go for two DD-10s but I don't think I would get the ULTRA deep bass extension I like for movies.

Secondly, I currently have a PB2-Plus from SVS. Any idea how this would compare to the DD-18 in terms of max extension and SPLs?

Thanks!

-Brian


Hi Brian,
For your room a DD-18 would be the way to go. You would get equal bass extension with much lower distortion. With the on board computer the DD-18 is unsurpassed for music/home theater systems.
Curt
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post #275 of 9725 Old 12-27-2003, 01:48 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by neil_n
I have been trying to figure out which DD sub I should get based on room dimensions but I have been unable to find a basic guideline anywhere. I have searched this forum, Velodyne website, etc., and I cannot find the information. Could someone please list a basic guideline for each DD sub and the acceptable room dimensions.

Also, there has not been much discussion at all about the DD-10. I was hoping that this sub would be right for me. Anyone out there using the DD-10 or do most people buy a 12 inch minimum? Help! The last part of my HT setup is the subwoofer (60/40 movies/music).

Thanks.

Neil,
I wish it was that simple. So many variables. We are revamping our Website and will attempt to do what you're requesting. Room size, openings into other rooms, types of music/movies, how loud all come into play. I often suggest cheat up (bigger) or the largest unit you can budget. Most end up with a subwoofer that is too small, often much to small and then they push it to hard, just as theranman states.
Against my better judgment, I today will offer the following. I may change my mind tomorrow. (My Disclaimer)
Small Rooms (to 1800 cubic feet) DD-10 or DD-12
Medium Rooms (to 3000 cubic feet) DD-12 or DD-15
Large Rooms (over 3000 cubic feet) DD-15 or DD-18
If rooms have openings into other rooms, then all those rooms must be counted in the measurement.
We are going to do our best to put some science to this issue.
Hope this helped some.
Curt
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post #276 of 9725 Old 12-27-2003, 02:24 PM
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Thanks for the reply Curt!

For my room (21 X 21 with several openings) would you suggest 2 DD-12s or 1 DD-18. I'd rather go w/ a single sub, however, I'll do whatever sounds best.

I'm afraid the 18inch subwoofer might be a tad boomy for music. I like deep, tight and accurate bass.

-Brian

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post #277 of 9725 Old 12-27-2003, 02:49 PM
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Brian,
I'd go with the DD-18. With proper setup and location our 18 is never boomy. A large cone moves much less than a smaller cone for a given amount of output so is usually a more accurate reproducer. Boominess often comes from peaks at certain frequencies caused by room interaction. That's why we developed the very flexible digital equalization system included with the DD subs. If you play music with deep bass content,or need it loud,or have a large area to cover you'll love the DD-18.
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post #278 of 9725 Old 12-27-2003, 04:14 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by curt c
Hi,
An interesting concept. Too early to tell but worth thinking about.
Thanks,
Curt

Well if you ever get your R&D guys on it ,im only to happy to be a test dummy


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post #279 of 9725 Old 12-27-2003, 05:11 PM
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You got it.
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post #280 of 9725 Old 12-28-2003, 01:30 PM
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Hi all,
I received my DD-12 few days back set it up and love it. It never feels boomy and the sound is outstanding. There's also a review in Secrets of hifi if you haven't read already on DD-18. Anyway, I would like to Thank all of you for anwering my questions few weeks back. I need couple clarifications:
1. Beginning of the manual says to set LFE crossover at 120Hz in either the pro or the sub but later during the setup manual suggests to change the LFE in the sub to where the pro lfe crossover was. My question is what are people using? Are you using the same LFE crossover in both the preand sub or should I set one of them at 120Hz. If so, which one i.e., B&K ref 50 or DD-12?

2. I have Diva swan 6.1 that goes down to 35 Hz. What should the crossover be?

3. In the Secrets review Johnson suggests that even for movies to use maximum servo ie set that last parameter at 08 instead of 01. I was wondering if Curt can chime in and let me know what he thinks.

4. My blue light stays on all the time and am wondering if it should go off when the sub sleeps? If yes, how do it set it up? Also, Johnson in his review says that when the sub receives a signal from the remote during preset change (movies, classical etc) the blue light blinks. Mine doesn't. How do I know that the sub has changed the preset.

Sorry for the long list of questions. Thanks and Happy Holidays!!
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post #281 of 9725 Old 12-28-2003, 01:44 PM
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"I hope it has a xover bypass!"


For $5000???!! Duh....
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post #282 of 9725 Old 12-28-2003, 01:59 PM
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Lets keep this thread on topic, PLEASE

Hear me now, Listen to me later....
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post #283 of 9725 Old 12-28-2003, 02:08 PM
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Does the DD-18 have a crossover bypass for sure? I'm still wondering after reading this from the start of the thread:

<<Re the THX mode, ALL the crossovers are handled by the processor, and in that case you'd want to run the DD low pass crossover up to 199 Hz (the slope doesn't really matter at this point).>>

-Brian

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post #284 of 9725 Old 12-28-2003, 05:23 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by bujji
Hi all,
I received my DD-12 few days back set it up and love it. It never feels boomy and the sound is outstanding. There's also a review in Secrets of hifi if you haven't read already on DD-18. Anyway, I would like to Thank all of you for anwering my questions few weeks back. I need couple clarifications:
1. Beginning of the manual says to set LFE crossover at 120Hz in either the pro or the sub but later during the setup manual suggests to change the LFE in the sub to where the pro lfe crossover was. My question is what are people using? Are you using the same LFE crossover in both the preand sub or should I set one of them at 120Hz. If so, which one i.e., B&K ref 50 or DD-12?

2. I have Diva swan 6.1 that goes down to 35 Hz. What should the crossover be?

3. In the Secrets review Johnson suggests that even for movies to use maximum servo ie set that last parameter at 08 instead of 01. I was wondering if Curt can chime in and let me know what he thinks.

4. My blue light stays on all the time and am wondering if it should go off when the sub sleeps? If yes, how do it set it up? Also, Johnson in his review says that when the sub receives a signal from the remote during preset change (movies, classical etc) the blue light blinks. Mine doesn't. How do I know that the sub has changed the preset.

Sorry for the long list of questions. Thanks and Happy Holidays!!

Hi,
I don't know your speakers but I'm assuming by the model number they use a 6 1/2 inch woofer. If so I'd call them small and/or cross them over at 80 hertz. If the B&K Ref 50 allows it, send a full range signal to the sub. If not send the highest frequency it will allow (120 or 150) to the sub. Then select 80hz on the subs low pass filter and work up or down from there for a good integration curve. If initially you want to use the processors low pass filter (80hz) in this case, put the DD's crossover to 199 which is our crossover bypass and just do the equalization part. The question of which low pass crossover to use is yours. The DD's will offer a lot more choices though. It's nice if the one not being used can be defeated or set well above the one being used.
I leave my servo setting at 8 most of the time but if I needed more volume I wouldn't hesitate to lower it.
If your auto on/off is in the active mode (bottom of system setting page) then the blue light should go off, in the standby mode after ten minutes or so of no bass signal. So if you have it in the active mode it would appear you have enough voltage flowing to keep the light on. It doesn't take much as the input is very sensitive. This is not unusual. John was incorrect about the light blinking when changing presets. The only time the light blinks is when changing the volume up or down on the remote. You will see the preset number change on the opening page as you change them on your remote. If you're aiming the remote at the sub, they will change. Believe me, I've tested it many times.
Thanks and hope this helps.
Curt
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post #285 of 9725 Old 12-28-2003, 06:43 PM
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So Curt, are you saying that there is actually a xover bypass or are you saying that if you turn the lowpass up to 199hz, that should be high enough to avoid the problem of cascading filters?
If the latter, I MOST humbly apologize to Brian for making the bad assumption.

Ran
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post #286 of 9725 Old 12-28-2003, 07:16 PM
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Ran,
I'm sure Brian accepts your apology.
Curt
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post #287 of 9725 Old 12-28-2003, 09:07 PM
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Do the new DD models have a low level mechanical hum (created by servo system, I believe)? I have heard this low level mechanical type hum on the HGS-15 model from about 12 feet away, in a quite room, basically during a quite movie scene (not noticeable during loud scenes as movie sound over shadows mechanical hum). Other HGS series owners have commented to me on this same issue. Is this low level mechanical hum eliminated with the DD series? Or is it a trade off type requirement of the subs design?
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post #288 of 9725 Old 12-28-2003, 09:41 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by curt c
Kipp,
Since your speakers are very efficient, we need to maximize the output of the DLS-4000.
1) Use a "Y" splitter into both inputs of the Velodyne.
2) Placement; in or near a corner, away from any openings.
3) Bring the receiver's volume control for the subwoofer jack up to about
3/4's of the way up. It's normally 1/2 way. (It's usually located in the
bass management section).
4) Call all your speakers "small" in speaker set-up.
Thanks,
Curt

So far the wife is satisfied. The 4000 is an excellent match for the Klipsch. Thanks Curt...

Kipp
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post #289 of 9725 Old 12-28-2003, 09:56 PM
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Bghead8che Brian,

I too was worried that my DD-18 would be slow or boomy. The DD-18 turned out to be super clean and very quick sounding. I'm sure that the EQ feature has a lot to do with the lack of boomyness.

For all those thinking about this sub, please note that it is unbelievably articulate and capable of scary power. I have it in a 6,500 cubic foot space (20*19*10 theater room that extends into other areas of the house) and will never be able to use half of its power. At a volume of 40 (DD-18) and my B&K receiver at -15, I am unable to keep my windows from rattling.

This sub even sounds full and warm at low volume levels.

Overkill maybe....I call it piece of mind....I am quite confident that I will never need more clean bass than the DD-18 can offer.

V
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post #290 of 9725 Old 12-28-2003, 10:00 PM
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My HGS-10 and HGS-12 both had the hum, but to tell the truth, I could only hear it from about 2 ft. away and it was not intrusive in the least. Other owners may have had different experiences.

Ran
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post #291 of 9725 Old 12-29-2003, 03:14 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by theranman
So Curt, are you saying that there is actually a xover bypass or are you saying that if you turn the lowpass up to 199hz, that should be high enough to avoid the problem of cascading filters?

Ran

Hi Ran,
Let me chime in on this one for a second. There is no "switch" on the screen that lets you defeat the low pass crossover. Today the answer is to run the crossover frequency up to 199. In theory, a true bypass would let the woofer run up to play all frequencies, and that is not a good idea.

But, as they say, it's only software. The next software update will have a defeatable crossover with an actual switch on the screen. What it will most likely do is set the frequency to 199. There are other updates planned as well.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

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post #292 of 9725 Old 12-29-2003, 03:23 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Frank D
Do the new DD models have a low level mechanical hum (created by servo system, I believe)? I have heard this low level mechanical type hum on the HGS-15 model from about 12 feet away, in a quite room, basically during a quite movie scene (not noticeable during loud scenes as movie sound over shadows mechanical hum). Other HGS series owners have commented to me on this same issue. Is this low level mechanical hum eliminated with the DD series? Or is it a trade off type requirement of the subs design?

What you're hearing is actually electronic in nature. The HGS servo system, which uses an accelerometer mounted on the cone to send an analog acceleration signal back to a comparator circuit in the amplifier, does generate some background noise. As ran says, the noise is usually easily overshadowed by any signal to be played, but this is a complaint we've gotten on the servo system.

In DD, the servo system is all digital which eliminates the hum.

Hope this helps,
Bruce

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post #293 of 9725 Old 12-29-2003, 06:29 AM
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Hi Curt,
I'm so glad I bought Velodyne because you guys are great! Talk about service.

The speakers have dual 8" woofers.
I talked to B&K regarding sending the full signal to DD-12 and they suggested I set the Low pass to external which I just set. On the subwoofer menu screen there are still two items which are 1. Cross over and 2. High pass. What do I set them at? The guy at B&K told me to set them at the same frequencey as the sub and I'm confused. Should i set the crossover same as sub or at 200Hz. Thanks for all your help
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post #294 of 9725 Old 12-29-2003, 07:33 AM
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Thanks Bruce,

Exactly the information that I needed.

Great products!
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post #295 of 9725 Old 12-29-2003, 08:47 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Frank D
Do the new DD models have a low level mechanical hum (created by servo system, I believe)? I have heard this low level mechanical type hum on the HGS-15 model from about 12 feet away, in a quite room, basically during a quite movie scene (not noticeable during loud scenes as movie sound over shadows mechanical hum). Other HGS series owners have commented to me on this same issue. Is this low level mechanical hum eliminated with the DD series? Or is it a trade off type requirement of the subs design?

Hi Frank,
The previous servo subs had a rushing sound (like white noise) that could be heard if you put your head close to the unit. The noise was created by the analog servo circuit (not mechanical). If you were hearing it 12 feet away you had a defective unit or It was some other noise. This noise has been eliminated in the DD series which have a digital servo circuit with a much higher sampling rate.
Thanks,
Curt
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post #296 of 9725 Old 12-29-2003, 01:39 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by bujji
Hi Curt,
I'm so glad I bought Velodyne because you guys are great! Talk about service.

The speakers have dual 8" woofers.
I talked to B&K regarding sending the full signal to DD-12 and they suggested I set the Low pass to external which I just set. On the subwoofer menu screen there are still two items which are 1. Cross over and 2. High pass. What do I set them at? The guy at B&K told me to set them at the same frequencey as the sub and I'm confused. Should i set the crossover same as sub or at 200Hz. Thanks for all your help

Hi Again,
I sent you a PM, and haven't heard back.
Curt
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post #297 of 9725 Old 12-29-2003, 06:47 PM
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I still haven't heard back from you, so for now let's go with this and fine tune crossover frequencies later. Set your two parameters (crossover and high pass) on the B&K to 80hz. The Velodyne DD low pass filter is already set at 80, or put it back to 80 if you've changed it. Now try equalizing for a fairly flat curve (+-3db). I'll try and find out more on the functionality of the B&K bass management system, but this should get you started.
If anyone out there owns a B&K Ref 50, feel free to chip in with help.
Curt
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post #298 of 9725 Old 12-29-2003, 07:30 PM
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If you set the Velo crossover to 80, wont you be losing the top of the LFE 80-120Hz? The pre/pro shouldn't be sending a full range signal to the sub, only the LFE + BM below the selected crossover point.

I would just set the B&K to 80hz and run the Velodyne to 199 (bypass) and be done with it. Let the pre/pro handle the bass management...

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post #299 of 9725 Old 12-29-2003, 08:09 PM
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Tom,
It's certainly an option to let the processor handle the bass management, in which case you would set the Velodyne's crossover to 199. Because of the greater flexibility of the DD's crossover, many would prefer to utilize it for even better integration with the satellites or speakers.
Curt
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post #300 of 9725 Old 12-29-2003, 09:48 PM
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I can go along with that in two channel system. In a home theater, it might be better to keep the bass management in the digital domain to avoid the unnecessary step of a/d-d/a processing.

I guess you could so you send a full range analog signal (line level) to the sub and then high pass back to the processor and set the sub to (no) in the pre/pro but I haven't seen that done with a Ref 50 in the chain...

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