* Offical Velodyne Support Thread * - Page 19 - AVS Forum
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post #541 of 9743 Old 06-28-2004, 05:35 PM
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I heard that the cross over on the DD-15 or DD-18 can not be fully removed (ie. only turned up high) should one want to use the cross over features of their preamp. Is this correct? If this is correct, will a feature to completely remove the DD's cross over be implemented in the future and when?
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post #542 of 9743 Old 06-29-2004, 07:28 AM
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Frank,
If the "DD" low pass filter is set at 199, none of the lower frequencies from your processor or receiver will be affected by the "DD" low pass filter. A bypass option will be available in the next major software update. This update is planned for Sept. 04.
Thanks,
Curt
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post #543 of 9743 Old 06-29-2004, 07:36 AM
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Curt

Will the bypass option be an upgrade that I can do to the DD-18 I just ordered?
Thanks

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post #544 of 9743 Old 06-29-2004, 07:37 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by curt c
"What benefits does the velodyne DD series offer over a parametric EQ"


Hi John,
I have not used the Behringer, so I cannot speak to its capabilities. Does it include a mic, generator and RTA? With the "DD" series you receive a complete package. Viewing the signal sweep on your television as you correct (equalize) in "real time" and see the results is inspiring because you can believe what you see. And it's simple to do. The great thing about the "DD" series is you're starting with the world's best (servo controlled) subwoofer, so accuracy and low distortion are a given. What can be achieved with a lesser subwoofer and an inexpensive equalizer is hard to say. I can say with certainity that you won't equal a "DD". The "DD" series also provides complete flexibility for crossover frequencies, slopes, phase, polarity, subsonic filters, etc. Another great feature is the ability to tune the servo for maximum accuracy or maximum output while still retaining very low distortion. Though very reasonable for the performance and features you receive, the "DD" series are not built to a price point - they are made to be the very best.
Thanks,
Curt

Thanks for the detailed response!

If i wanted to daisy chain another sub with a DD sub, do i need to use the single ended from my processor or can i use XLR out the DD sub and then single ended out sub #2?

Is there any benefit to using a 2nd DD sub instead of any other sub? (besides the fact that the DD sub will be a better overall performer, i walked right into that one!)

Also, does the DD series allow you to calibrate bass response to a listening 'area' and not just a single location? I'd like to be able to accomplish this by moving the microphone to different points in the room (i have 8 berkline chairs in my home theater and would like to get some level of uniform bass response for that entire area) and have the DD software work its magic based on measurements at those points. Does the DD provide tools to accomplish this or is it up to the user to move the mic to different locations and optimize manually?

Thanks again for the information.

John
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post #545 of 9743 Old 06-29-2004, 07:46 AM
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"Will the bypass option be an upgrade that I can do to the DD-18 I just ordered?"

Hi,
Absolutely! That's the beauty of the "DD" series. All upgrades will be on the website to be downloaded at your convenience.
Curt
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post #546 of 9743 Old 06-29-2004, 08:10 AM
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Could you tell me what kind of Amp is in my F1800R? I know it is a 600 Watt amp but is it class B or AB? Is the cabinet shielded inside to prevent hum or affect picture tubes?

Art Neill
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post #547 of 9743 Old 06-29-2004, 08:24 AM
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"If i wanted to daisy chain another sub with a DD sub, do i need to use the single ended from my processor or can i use XLR out the DD sub and then single ended out sub #2?"

Yes, you can use XLR to "DD" #1 sub and single ended to sub#2.



"Is there any benefit to using a 2nd DD sub instead of any other sub? (besides the fact that the DD sub will be a better overall performer, i walked right into that one!)"

Naturally I would recommend using the same subwoofer for the second unit, or consider the same size HGS-X subwoofer for the second one. It would have the same tonal qualities.



"Also, does the DD series allow you to calibrate bass response to a listening 'area' and not just a single location? I'd like to be able to accomplish this by moving the microphone to different points in the room (i have 8 berkline chairs in my home theater and would like to get some level of uniform bass response for that entire area) and have the DD software work its magic based on measurements at those points. Does the DD provide tools to accomplish this or is it up to the user to move the mic to different locations and optimize manually?"

Currently the "DD" software is designed to optimize for one location. To optimize for an area, we would need multiple (mic) readings and have some sort of averaging method. Something to think about for futures. In your setup I would equalize in the center of your total listening area. Utilizing two or more subwoofers carefully placed, you should be able to provide uniform bass for the total area.
Thanks,
Curt
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post #548 of 9743 Old 06-29-2004, 08:29 AM
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"Could you tell me what kind of Amp is in my F1800R? I know it is a 600 Watt amp but is it class B or AB? Is the cabinet shielded inside to prevent hum or affect picture tubes?"

Hi Art,
Your amplifier is a class "D", same as used in the HGS and DD series.
The F-1800R is video shielded.
Curt
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post #549 of 9743 Old 06-29-2004, 08:42 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by curt c
"If i wanted to daisy chain another sub with a DD sub, do i need to use the single ended from my processor or can i use XLR out the DD sub and then single ended out sub #2?"

Yes, you can use XLR to "DD" #1 sub and single ended to sub#2.



"Is there any benefit to using a 2nd DD sub instead of any other sub? (besides the fact that the DD sub will be a better overall performer, i walked right into that one!)"

Naturally I would recommend using the same subwoofer for the second unit, or consider the same size HGS-X subwoofer for the second one. It would have the same tonal qualities.



"Also, does the DD series allow you to calibrate bass response to a listening 'area' and not just a single location? I'd like to be able to accomplish this by moving the microphone to different points in the room (i have 8 berkline chairs in my home theater and would like to get some level of uniform bass response for that entire area) and have the DD software work its magic based on measurements at those points. Does the DD provide tools to accomplish this or is it up to the user to move the mic to different locations and optimize manually?"

Currently the "DD" software is designed to optimize for one location. To optimize for an area, we would need multiple (mic) readings and have some sort of averaging method. Something to think about for futures. In your setup I would equalize in the center of your total listening area. Utilizing two or more subwoofers carefully placed, you should be able to provide uniform bass for the total area.
Thanks,
Curt

Thanks again for the info, just one more...

For a room 15x22x8 what would be the recommended configuration of DD units with 1 sub? 2 subs? What if i wanted to upgrade to 2 at a later date but just get one to start?

I listen to 1/2 movies and 1/2 music but really want a lot of clean bass for movies.

John
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post #550 of 9743 Old 06-29-2004, 09:25 AM
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John,
Is this room shut off from other rooms? If so, two "DD" 12's would be very good. I would lean toward starting with one "DD-15" and add a second 15 if needed. I love the power and authority of the larger subs in medium to large rooms.
Hope this all helps and Good Luck. Feel free to call me anytime. My direct number is (480) 595-7141, PT.
Curt
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post #551 of 9743 Old 06-29-2004, 11:32 AM
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Quote:


Hi Florian,
As a person who often uses Maggies, I can tell you the SPL's, HGS's and DD's are all a great match for the Maggies. As far as price in Germany goes, we have no real control over that. Dealers set their prices. We do not sell direct and I'm not aware of dealers who ship to Europe. If you were in the U.S. you could purchase the 220V version and take it back with you.
Thanks for your interest.
Curt

Thank you for the answere. Its too bad there are no good ways of getting a Velodyne Subwoofer here in germany. I run a small (in US standards) electronics distribution company, is there any way to become a distributor for Velodyne here in germany?

Thanks
Florian

PS: The german Maggie Fan Club (forum building in progress) is here www.maggiefanclub.de

Music without Magneplanars is like watching a movie without a picture
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post #552 of 9743 Old 06-29-2004, 12:08 PM
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Florian,
I sent you a PM.
Curt
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post #553 of 9743 Old 06-29-2004, 12:09 PM
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Thanks a lot. Ill see what i can do. :-)

Music without Magneplanars is like watching a movie without a picture
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post #554 of 9743 Old 06-29-2004, 12:12 PM
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Florian,

Geez, I hope you're not the same Florian I tried to help out about 2 yrs ago. If so, Curt, pleeeeeze help this poor guy out...he's been waiting sooo long.

Randy
(Chicago)
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post #555 of 9743 Old 07-08-2004, 10:50 AM
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Hi guys, hope I'll find some help here.

I have just bought a pre-owned DD18 from a nice guy from NY.

As I live in Italy I am obliged to set the power supply of the amplifier at 220 volts environment instead of the 110 factory set.

I have been told and confirmed by Velodyne that it is possible to modify the power supply environment to 220 volts simply changing and removing some jumpers on the amplifier board and - obivously - changing some fuses.

Now, is there any simple soul that could help me indicating those jumpers?

You know, it would be not so nice to send the board to the distributor in order to have it modified and loosing the time and the economic gain I realized from the grey-market purchase; as it looks to be a simple operation, I feel enough clever to carry it on.

Thanks a lot for your comprehension.
Luca
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post #556 of 9743 Old 07-08-2004, 05:43 PM
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Luca,

The process of converting this 117V / 60Hz unit to the 220V / 50Hz standard you require is a bit more involved then simply altering a few jumpers on the amp.
Because the domestic U.S. unit is set to the NTSC video standard the amplifier on the unit also requires a software update so that the video can be displayed on a PAL / SECAM display.
Without the required software update the video will not sync with the display and the Digital Drive software will be completely useless.
My suggestion is that you get the unit into the hands of MPI our distributor in that area and have them assist you.

D. Santos
Customer Service Mgr.
Velodyne Acoustics, Inc.

D. Saint
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post #557 of 9743 Old 07-09-2004, 04:02 AM
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Thanks for your answer which is greatly appreciated.

I have to say I don't need the upgrade to Pal systems because I have a plasma that accepts Pal, NTSC, Secam etc.

I just need that someone points me out which are the jumpers to move: is this possible or, for company policy, it is not?

Thanks
Luca
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post #558 of 9743 Old 07-09-2004, 09:29 AM
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First of all, I work in customer service and it is really great to see other companies take steps like this to keep people happy. It's a shame you can't get good service everywhere.

Now for my questions (sorry for the long windedness):

I am a newbie to the world of HT. I just recently purchased a 5.1 capable DVD player to hook into my older Sony DD "ready" receiver. I know it's not the ideal situation but...

I am running Klipsch KG .5's as fronts and surrounds. Freq response is 60Hz-20kHz±3dB. I have a KV 1 center - 85Hz-20kHz±3dB. My most recent addition is a Velodyne DLS 3500 (living in an apartment sucks).

I have some questions on setup between these speakers and the sub. My DVD player (Mitsubishi 8040) has settings for large and small speakers. They (instructions) define large as being able to play sub 100Hz. So I set my fronts and rears to large and left the center on small. I set the DLS low pass at 80Hz. Does this sound correct or should I set all the speakers to small? If I change them to small, do I need to readjust the crossover on the sub to about 100? I couldn't find any specific info on the DVD player that tells me what the crossover is when they are on small - I'm guessing 100Hz.

Second. I seem to have a bass dead spot and it is, lucky for me, right where I sit. I know that it is most likely a factor of room/furniture. The odd thing is the sound really comes alive when you stand up. Everything seems smoother and deeper. The best response seems to be in about a 5-7 foot arc from in front of the sub, only while standing. The sub is on the floor in the front of the room. I linked to a drawing of the room- more info is better than none, right? Light Blue are the KG's, pink the KV, red the Velodyne. In its current spot, it is aiming at a couch. I moved it to the yellow circle in front of the fireplace and oriented it every way I could and it never cured the problem. Sitting the sub on its side seemed to help a little. Changing the phase didn't make any difference to my ears. I just can't believe how great it sounds 3' higher!

The room is on a carpeted slab with another unit above, 8' flat ceiling. I still have some spots to try it in - and some furniture to move around but I thought I would toss the question out to see if it's something glaringly obvious.


home.hiwaay.net/~lbrewer/images/setup.JPG

Any help on either of these issues would be greatly appreciated.
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post #559 of 9743 Old 07-09-2004, 09:41 AM
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DSP,

I used to own Klipshorns many years ago. Some of that "thiness" you perceive may be a result of the philosophy behind Klipsch speakers. Anyway, here is what I would do. BTW, I have a Velodyne F1800R and 2 VMPS STIII towers. EV SentryIII's at the rear and a carbon fiber smaller unit at the center which I use only when friends come to watch and they are more than 20 degrees off axis.

Set your Sub in a corner and adjust it tor roll off above 120Hz. Use it only for the LFE channel. Set your Front and rears to large. Keep them within 12 feet of each other. Set the center to small.

Art Neill
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post #560 of 9743 Old 07-09-2004, 12:01 PM
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"I am a newbie to the world of HT. I just recently purchased a 5.1 capable DVD player to hook into my older Sony DD "ready" receiver. I know it's not the ideal situation but..."

Hi,
Try doing the things Art suggests. A corner location should give you better balance. I would set all the speakers to "small", I've found the fewer speakers playing the low frequencies, the better. Try it both ways.
Curt
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post #561 of 9743 Old 07-09-2004, 12:42 PM
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DSPNeon

Quote:


Try it both ways.

Trying the good suggestions from Art & Curt - definitely do that.

This is my experience with bass management - depends on your tastes, your room, music or movies, etc.

In my case, even though my main speakers are rated to 39Hz-20kHz +/- 2dB, I have them set to small for listening to DVD-Audio and SACD (my DVD player is limited to small or large speakers in it's set-up). For movies my processor has the capability to adjust the crossover from 25Hz-160Hz (if memory serves), however if I only had a choice between small or large, I would choose small.

I have tried it both ways, and I get less low frequency output from my system when I have my main speakers set to large. Set to small, any low frequency info sent to your main speakers, will now be sent to your sub. The crossover point is generally 80Hz for small.

As for the position of your sub, that will be best determined by your room. I too find that if I walk around the room, or the next room for that matter, the bass changes dramatically!

FYI - I have an HGS Series II HGS-18.

This is a very basic description, to try to keep this post as short as possible.

Good luck!

Dan

I want to be SHAKEN not stirred!!
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post #562 of 9743 Old 07-09-2004, 01:20 PM
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Don,

I find it humorous to hear you talk about bass. When I was in my 20's and 30's I thought I could control everything about my stereo system. I believed the specs. Unfortunately, the specs are taken in an anechoic chamber at 1 meter from the geometric centers. That has little relation to your room. Also if your walls are less than 30 feet apart expect some huge bumps in the low end because the room will resonate as it attempts to produce even one wavelength at the lowest audible frequencies.

The thinness you perceive is accurracy. The ral world does not boom and thump. Listen to an orchestra sometime or just go outside and listen to ambient sounds. No thumping!!!!!!!! That subwoofer should be inaudible except when a bass viola or bass drum is hit.

Visitors often comment that my system doesn't have a lot of bass. Yet when they hear low frqency material they say it sounds so real. That is the trick. You achieve that by using extremely high powered amps and very efficient low frequency drivers that are of low mass and are able to accelerate quickly and follow the low frequency waveform acurately. IMHO servos like those incorporated in the Velodyne's really work well. I made some graphs of my F1800R's running at 25Hz with 100Watts input. I did it outside and used a mike and a scope to watch the input vs the output from the speaker. Compared to anything else I had ever done that with the Velodynes were magnificent. Sealed systems and some I built were absolutely awful. Interestingly the Dynaco A25's and the VMPS STIII Super Towers were pretty good.

Art Neill
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post #563 of 9743 Old 07-09-2004, 03:52 PM
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Again, great info from this thread.

I have some testing to do this weekend with settings and positioning of both the sub and furniture.

Thanks!

Tim
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post #564 of 9743 Old 07-19-2004, 09:58 PM
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Dear Experts:

I've just posted this on the AV Talk DD thread, but I'm looking for all the expertise I can get, so please help me out if you can. I'm in the process of converting an 18' x 28' living room with a 14' cathedral ceiling (5700 ft3, with no additional openings) to a living room/home theater, and have been enamored of the DD series of subwoofers ever since I read John Johnson's Secrets review of the Velodyne DD-18.

For aesthetic (WAF) as well as acoustic reasons it looks like we'll be going with a Sonus Faber Cremona surround system (Cremona fronts and center, Auditor side surrounds, Wall rears). Based on what I've read (I've dutifully followed this forum, as well as the AV Talk thread), I'd prefer to go with the DD-18 subwoofer (space is not an issue for one sub), for excellent bass as well as its equalization functionality (at least as important in my untested environment). The salespeople at Magnolia HiFi, however, who carry the Cremonas like to pair them with REL subs (they don't carry the DD line), and espouse the line that an 18" sub will not be as musical or nimble as one with a smaller driver.

My questions:

1) For my space and needs (70% movies, 30% music), will a DD-18 be overkill, and would a DD-15 work just as well, or even better? Are there any circumstances where in a reasonably large room like mine one might prefer the DD-15 to the DD-18, other than for reasons of size and expense?

2) Is there any reason why "audiophile" speakers such as the Cremonas would be better served by a self-proclaimed "audiophile" sub like a REL (I know about the REL's crossover to a speaker set to LARGE, but I guess that's a tangential discussion), rather than one of the Velodyne DD subs? I've been given that distinct impression by more than one supposedly "high end" salesperson I've dealt with.

3) If I go with the DD-18, if I end up wanting a second sub to even out room modes for more than one listening position (I won't know until everything's in place and calibrated), could I go with a DD-12 for the 2nd sub (I don't have space for 2 DD-18s), or would a DD-15 match up better with a DD-12, if that's as large as I can go for the 2nd sub?

Thanks in advance for your thoughts. These forums are invaluable for neophytes like me, and I'll appreciate any input.

Brian
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post #565 of 9743 Old 07-20-2004, 08:06 AM
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I have a 6800 cu ft room and I went with the DD-18 with no regrets. I am using ATC scm150A for mains, SCM20A Towers for rears and a single SCM50A in the center. The sound is amazing to say the least, I don't believe I would get the same with a smaller sub or subs, plus the idea of a sub with a driver the same size or smaller than my mains sound counter intuitive.

All the best
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post #566 of 9743 Old 07-20-2004, 12:22 PM
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Thanks, LAT, that's just the kind of feedback I'm looking for.

Brian
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post #567 of 9743 Old 07-20-2004, 01:47 PM
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[quote]Originally posted by brian johnson

Hi Brian,

"1) For my space and needs (70% movies, 30% music), will a DD-18 be overkill, and would a DD-15 work just as well, or even better?"

For your size room the DD-18 is the proper recommendation.



"2) Is there any reason why "audiophile" speakers such as the Cremonas would be better served by a self-proclaimed "audiophile" sub like a REL or?"

Absolutely not. The Velodyne DD's and servos are about as "audiophile" as you can get. That is if you're looking for accuracy and low distortion. Many of the so called audiophile subwoofers I've listened to, have lacked much (really) low frequency output. So it depends on what you like.
Larry Greenhill (Stereophile Magazine) is probably the premier audio (2-channel) subwoofer reviewer. Read his review of the DD-18 in the June issue. Note he uses the Quad electrostats with the DD-18. Many consider these speakers almost impossible to integrate with a subwoofer. The DD-18 is Larry's reference and believe me he can have any sub he wants. IMO the DD-18 is in a class by itself.


"3) If I go with a DD-18 and end up wanting a second sub to smooth out room modes for a second location, will a DD-12 work with the DD-18?"

This is a tough one. I would always suggest using the same size and model when using multiple subs but it can be done. The larger unit would be the primary unit dedicated to the whole area and the smaller unit acting as a fill. You would need to experiment with location. Perhaps some others have experimented with this and have some verified results or ideas.

Good listening,
Curt
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post #568 of 9743 Old 07-20-2004, 02:43 PM
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IMHO, one should never install two subwoofers in a normal home theater. One is more than enough. If you install two, there will be some cancellation and reinforcement because of the difference in location. If you look at the physics behind low frequency propagation, you will se that one source is always better than multiple sources except for those cases where you need a larger surface area. In that case precautions must be taken to insure that all the drivers are precisely in phase and are located in proximate space. All of what I just said only applies inside walled space not in free air/outside.

Art Neill
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post #569 of 9743 Old 07-20-2004, 03:24 PM
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I use 2 subs (SVS PC Ultra & B&W ASW2500) in my small room 7x14ft, and it sounds much with the 2 subs. I had intended to sell the B&W when I bought the SVS and I only tried the 2 together for a laugh. It really helps to flatten the frequency response and the integration with satellites is also much improved.
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post #570 of 9743 Old 07-20-2004, 04:20 PM
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I had a hard time getting my 2 subwoofers right. But now i am pretty happy. But then again, will see if i switch to a seperate Magnepan 5.1 channel :-)

This hobby is really really cool, but man does it limit my cash flow ;-)

Music without Magneplanars is like watching a movie without a picture
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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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