* Offical Velodyne Support Thread * - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 9662 Old 01-29-2005, 06:18 PM
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Hi and Welcome,
The CHT-12R (US version is DLS-4000R) will do a great job for your room size. The remote makes preset selections and volume adjustments so quick and easy.
We're receiving a lot of positive feedback on the new DSP driven models.
Thanks,
Curt
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post #902 of 9662 Old 01-30-2005, 04:24 AM
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Thanks for your insight.
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post #903 of 9662 Old 01-30-2005, 12:07 PM
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Curt: I am a former regional manager with Boomer Mcloud a car stereo
franchise and I have listened to subs of all kinds on a daily bases
so I have become a little weary of that BOOM BOOM sound. Your subs are very clean and flat. I purchased a VX ten for my small den, it's about 1800 to 2000 cubic ft. (I am including the stair well) I was quite surprised with
this little subs performance, even at moderate levels it can vibrate the
walls sitting on a carpeted concrete slab! I know the roll off is around 35HZ
but I am curious as to what kind of extension it has. Also keep up the
good work, it's great you guys could come up with some high quality affordable subs. CHEERS.

Ian

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post #904 of 9662 Old 01-30-2005, 11:22 PM
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Curt,

I am a long time Velodyne owner. Currently I have 2 subs - an older VA-1210 and a HGS-18 Series II. My question is about my Dad's system.

I recommended to my father a DLS-3750R, as it was in his price range. I am going to visit him shortly to help him set up his 2-channel system (he lives in another state). I was debating on whether to use the sub's crossover or use the preset crossover (80Hz) in the receiver (an 8 year old Denon). I am tending toward using the speaker level inputs on the DLS-3750R. This would give me greater flexibility and I am pretty confident that the sub's crossover is much better than the receivers. By the way the bookshelf speakers he has are the B&W DM 602 S3.

I am on the right thinking track?

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question.

Dan

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post #905 of 9662 Old 01-31-2005, 06:16 AM
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Dan,

Pardon me for interferring but any time you amplify signal comung from the Speaker connections, you will have diminished dynamic range, a noisier signal and a greater risk of damage to the amplifier. In my 50+ years of playing with this stuff, I have avoided connecting anything but speakers to speaker terminals. I am sure Velodyne offers this path for convenience. It is certainly not the desireable path for fidelity.

Art Neill
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post #906 of 9662 Old 01-31-2005, 07:59 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Dan Schulze
Curt,

"I am a long time Velodyne owner. Currently I have 2 subs - an older VA-1210 and a HGS-18 Series II. My question is about my Dad's system.

I recommended to my father a DLS-3750R, as it was in his price range. I am going to visit him shortly to help him set up his 2-channel system (he lives in another state). I was debating on whether to use the sub's crossover or use the preset crossover (80Hz) in the receiver (an 8 year old Denon). I am tending toward using the speaker level inputs on the DLS-3750R. This would give me greater flexibility and I am pretty confident that the sub's crossover is much better than the receivers. By the way the bookshelf speakers he has are the B&W DM 602 S3.

I am on the right thinking track?

Thanks for taking the time to answer my question."

Dan

Hi Dan,
Since the older receiver is probably a Dolby Pro Logic unit it may not have enough output at the subwoofer output jack to run the sub. I would use a "Y" splitter into both sub input jacks. Try that method first. If there is not enough voltage to drive the sub, then your method is the alternative. Line level is preferable when available.
Thanks,
Curt
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post #907 of 9662 Old 01-31-2005, 08:11 AM
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Quote:


"I know the roll off is around 35HZ
but I am curious as to what kind of extension it has. Also keep up the
good work, it's great you guys could come up with some high quality affordable subs. CHEERS."

Ian [/b]

Hi Ian,
The VX-10 measures quite well down to 35hz and in certain locations lower.
Since our hearing is pretty well gone by 30hz, it's a fine performer for an economy subwoofer. Thanks for the positive feedback.
Cheers,
Curt
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post #908 of 9662 Old 01-31-2005, 09:25 AM
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Curt: I keep reading discussions about the pros and cons of using two
subs on the AVS forum. What kind of results would one expect if they added another sub preferably the same as the original one?

Ian

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post #909 of 9662 Old 01-31-2005, 10:02 AM
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Hi,
This discussion has and will go on forever. Two subs can support each other or interfere with each other. Certainly two subs of the same size, properly placed will be better than one. The real question is will two of a smaller size be better than one bigger one. Not an easy answer. Those who prefer smaller subs will go with a smaller pair. I usually start with a fifteen or eighteen and add a second one if necessary. But my rooms are very large. There are some who propose doing mode cancellation with multiple subs, that can work if you have placement flexibility. Our digital room equalization (DD subs) is a better solution in my opinion. As far as maximum output, two smaller subs will equal or surpass by a small amount the next larger size. That is two ten's will equal a twelve, more or less again depending on placement.
It's your choice.
Curt
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post #910 of 9662 Old 01-31-2005, 11:09 AM
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Curt:
Thank you for your quick response. Ian Masters of Sound&Vision
said the same thing, but how does running two identical subs
relate to output in decibels since you are using twice the amp.
power? I assume two 150 watt 10's should have the same punch
as a 300 watt 12, or am I wrong? And does that translate into
a 3 or 6 db increase in output being that you are also moving twice the amount of air thus doubling your efficiency. By the way I demoed a VRP
1000 and 1200 and my 52 year old ears couldn't hear much difference.
Thanks again for your expertise.

Ian

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post #911 of 9662 Old 01-31-2005, 11:29 AM
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Your assumption is all that amp power will or can be used. Too many people just look at watts. A driver (piston) can only be driven so far, regardless of the amount of power available. So you do the math, looking at the total mass of the piston and the excursion capability. The piston mass of two tens is just a little more than one twelve. You're right that two ten's would probably have the same punch of a twelve and maybe 3db more output under ideal conditions. But 3db isn't much louder. Twice as loud is usually said to be 10-12 db more. (Twice amp power is required for 3db additional output but that's not twice as loud) The output would be close to the same. If you demo'd the VRP-1000 and 1200 in a small room, you probably wouldn't hear much if any difference. In a large room there would certainly be a difference in output capability. When in doubt go with the larger unit. A little reserve is a good thing. Masters is always right.
Thanks,
Curt
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post #912 of 9662 Old 01-31-2005, 12:53 PM
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Where I come from in the car stereo business multiple subs
and amps are almost a given and you realy ever have conversations
like this. Over kill is considered a good thing even if it cracks your windshield!
Anyway It really comes down to the size of the room. If you ever want to
hear some incredible spls come to one of our USAC competitions. Thanks
again and give my regards to Geoff Marks of whom I have the pleasure of
discussing my sound quality philosphy with. Cheers.

Ian

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post #913 of 9662 Old 01-31-2005, 03:53 PM
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I have advocated this in the past. But I have good amps which are DC coupled and -very clean- in the low frequencies. I guess that I had forgotten about how capacitor coupled feedback loops can have poor low end extension and distortion. All the more so when the caps are electrolytic instead of film caps.

So I will try not to recommend this again without qualifications. But this does work very well if the amps are without the typical distortion and roll off that many?most mainstread amps do have.

Aragon 8008, WBTs and polyprop bypass caps on the powersupply
Conrad Johnson PV-5 modified, WBTs
MG-IIIa's, modfied x-overs
2x DD-15, connected to the amp speaker outs and phase aligned to the MG-IIIa's

(The PV-5 does not present a viable connection alternative, no buffered outputs)
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post #914 of 9662 Old 01-31-2005, 05:24 PM
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Quote:


Dan,

Pardon me for interferring but any time you amplify signal comung from the Speaker connections, you will have diminished dynamic range, a noisier signal and a greater risk of damage to the amplifier. In my 50+ years of playing with this stuff, I have avoided connecting anything but speakers to speaker terminals. I am sure Velodyne offers this path for convenience. It is certainly not the desireable path for fidelity.

Quote:


Hi Dan,
Since the older receiver is probably a Dolby Pro Logic unit it may not have enough output at the subwoofer output jack to run the sub. I would use a "Y" splitter into both sub input jacks. Try that method first. If there is not enough voltage to drive the sub, then your method is the alternative. Line level is preferable when available.
Thanks,
Curt

Art & Curt,

Thanks for your quick responses.

Art,

I was not aware that there was additional amplification at the sub when using the speaker outputs from the receiver connected to the "speaker level inputs" on the sub, then hooking up the speakers to the "speaker level outputs" on the sub. I thought the speaker signal was just sent through the crossover in the sub. I will certainly use the line level "sub output" on the receiver, and hook up the speakers directly to the receiver, however I will probably do a bit of experimenting.

Once again thanks.

Dan

I want to be SHAKEN not stirred!!
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post #915 of 9662 Old 01-31-2005, 05:25 PM
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Sorry - duplicate post.

Dan

I want to be SHAKEN not stirred!!
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post #916 of 9662 Old 01-31-2005, 05:26 PM
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removed

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post #917 of 9662 Old 01-31-2005, 06:00 PM
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Hi Happy,
1) The amp and driver are the same.
2) The output of two fifteens and one eighteen would be in the same ballpark, so would the price. I'd go with the DD-18, you might surprise yourself once you see it's DSP capabilities.
Thanks,
Curt
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post #918 of 9662 Old 02-01-2005, 09:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello All...

Please note...This thread is used for Velodyne support and as such companies to other products should please not be made.

Above posts also edited by original poster.

Thank you.

David Bott
Founder - AVSForum


DISCLAIMER: All spelling and grammatical errors done on purpose for the proofreadingly challenged...:)

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post #919 of 9662 Old 02-01-2005, 10:48 AM
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Curt: This questions is simple: Since Velodyne strives for accuracy
do you think bandwidth uniformity is the best measurement to determine
that when looking at a subs specifications. After all the flatter a speakers
response is the more accurate it is.

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post #920 of 9662 Old 02-01-2005, 11:12 AM
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I always think low distortion first and then flat frequency response. They are equally important. The problem with low frequency response is of course the room interface. That's why Velodyne developed the DD series subwoofers which are the best tool I've seen for dealing with room anomalies. With the on-screen review you can see what your real-time, in room response is.
Curt
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post #921 of 9662 Old 02-01-2005, 12:32 PM
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David,

Your statement that "This thread is used for Velodyne support and as such companies to other products should please not be made." is very disturbing. I thought this was an open forum for discussing ideas. I know support is one of the issues often discussed but the idea that a manufacturer has a monopoly on what can be discussed in a forum is really quite repugnant. Knowing what I do of the Velodyne folks, I doubt they would want free thinking and speech curtailed. Please reconsider your position limiting free thinking. It does not sound like you and it is extremely repugnant. Integration with other devices and comparison with competing brands and technologies seems appropriate and desireable. IMHO the lack of free speech is what killed Sterophile magazine. In the days of J. Gordon Holt, we were exposed to inexpensive and expensive devices in Stereophile Magazine. Later it catered to those who took out big adds. I canceled my subscription. I would hate to lose the privilidge and joy of these discussions because the forum became a mouthpiece for the manufacturers.

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post #922 of 9662 Old 02-01-2005, 12:47 PM
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I agree some what. Sometimes you have to talk about other manufactures
subs in order to make a point. Asking Velodyne about an SVS sub
helps clarify the differences in the TYPE of subs they make. I would never say anything about another make that was negative and the Internet comment may have been inappropriate but comparing or having questions about the designs were not. But you're the boss and I respect the fact that it's your call.

Ian

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post #923 of 9662 Old 02-01-2005, 01:35 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by MrHifi
David,

Your statement that "This thread is used for Velodyne support and as such companies to other products should please not be made." is very disturbing. I thought this was an open forum for discussing ideas. I know support is one of the issues often discussed but the idea that a manufacturer has a monopoly on what can be discussed in a forum is really quite repugnant. Knowing what I do of the Velodyne folks, I doubt they would want free thinking and speech curtailed. Please reconsider your position limiting free thinking. It does not sound like you and it is extremely repugnant. Integration with other devices and comparison with competing brands and technologies seems appropriate and desireable. IMHO the lack of free speech is what killed Sterophile magazine. In the days of J. Gordon Holt, we were exposed to inexpensive and expensive devices in Stereophile Magazine. Later it catered to those who took out big adds. I canceled my subscription. I would hate to lose the privilidge and joy of these discussions because the forum became a mouthpiece for the manufacturers.


David is not limiting free speech ON THIS FORUM. He is only limiting the type of discussion IN THIS THREAD. If you want to discuss other companies products, start another thread -- or PM the Velodyne guys directly. Its hardly fair to ask the Velodyne guys for information or opinions about other companies products in a public forum.

You WAY overreacted, man.

Craig

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System

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post #924 of 9662 Old 02-01-2005, 05:11 PM
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What craig john said.

I agree with that.
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post #925 of 9662 Old 02-02-2005, 10:06 PM
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Hey Curt: How come you don't use insulation in your rear port subs?
Also do flared ports really reduce port noise?

Ian

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post #926 of 9662 Old 02-03-2005, 09:06 AM
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Gentlemen,
I have a Velodyne F1500R that has developed a problem slowly over the last couple of years but now is almost unusable. When playing loud,or with a lot of LFE coming in (mostly from music,it has to sustained,not intermittant like from a movie soundtrack) it will shut itself off or rather go into standby for maybe 10-15 seconds then come back online (with the front LED flashing). I know this is a safety feature on this sub,but now it happens all the time at lower volumes than I used to play it.. The back of the sub,(amp) feels very hot,but honestly don't know if it's hotter than when everything was working properly. Does anyone know what the cause may be? Perhaps there is something wrong with the internal amp?
I'm in Illinois and don't know where I should take this to be looked at or if it's even repairable. Tried emailing Velodyne support but no response.

Thanks for any help.
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post #927 of 9662 Old 02-03-2005, 10:17 AM
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slapshot...........

Just give them a call. They are very helpful.
To their detriment, I have never received an answer to an Email I have ever sent them. May have just been bad timing???

John
*************
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post #928 of 9662 Old 02-03-2005, 10:34 AM
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Hi,
It looks like we've had some email issues. I'm sorry for that. Emails to service should go to; service@velodyne.com. We do have a new server and that should help. The telephone numbers for service are listed on our website; www.velodyne.com.
Curt
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post #929 of 9662 Old 02-03-2005, 11:25 AM
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My last question: No answer?

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post #930 of 9662 Old 02-03-2005, 01:33 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by mailiang
Hey Curt: How come you don't use insulation in your rear port subs?
Also do flared ports really reduce port noise?

Ian

Sorry for the delay, I was getting some information.
The VRP series have a 3.5" diameter rear port that is flared with .5" radius on the edge. Flared ports do reduce port noise. Insulation would reduce the amount of output at the port.
Curt
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