* Offical Velodyne Support Thread * - Page 6 - AVS Forum
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post #151 of 9631 Old 11-10-2003, 02:40 PM
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Hi Folks,

I just found this thread and some day I will go through all 8 pages. But for now, I am having a problem with my HGS-10 sub and thought that someone could help.

I have had this sub for 4 years and I have loved it. Just recently, I built a HT in my basement and moved this sub (and all my other stuff) down to the basement. I did a quick calibration of the speakers (nothing on the sub) and then put in a movie (Toy Story 2, my reference DVD). I immediently noticed a strange sound and narrowed it to the sub.

So, out came my AVIA DVD and I did a low frequence sweep on the LFE. Now, I have done this dozens of time (especially when doing my bass shakers setup and trying to find items that rattle) and this time the results were different.

The Low Freq LFE sweep starts out and 100 hz and goes down to 20 hz. I used to get a satisfying tone that got deeper as the sweep progressed. Now, I get lots of distortion or something. As the sweep approaches 40 hz, I can start to hear a buzz. The volume of the buzz increases as the hz drop and when I get to about 29 hz, all of a sudden the volume really increases. It is like someone started a chainsaw in my HT.

So, what gives, did I break my sub? All the rest of the equipment is identical to what I had before. Did it some how get damaged or did it wear out? Any help would be appreciated.

Because I am a complete goofball, I have attached a wav file that I recorded off my laptop of what the LFE sweep sounds like. The wav file should start around 40hz.

I thought I should add that I use a Y splitter to connect the sub. Also, I have the subsonic filter set to 20hz. If I set the filter to 35hz, the buzz is somewhat reduced. Also, I use the internal crossover of the sub. I usually have it set to around 100 hz. Also, the volume control is usually set to about 4 dots from minimum.

Thanks again,
- Hal

 

sub.zip 173.9111328125k . file
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post #152 of 9631 Old 11-10-2003, 04:13 PM
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I really don't think the little HGS-10 sub is meant to be pushed hard into the 20-25hz range(even though the website quotes -3db at that frequency). In fact, I'd be somewhat surprised to hear any appreciable volume at that level, and if so, I suspect it'd be really straining. Perhaps you've overdriven it? Also, did you correct for the Radio Shack meter error in your measurements?

Ran

ps-what size is your room?
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post #153 of 9631 Old 11-10-2003, 04:24 PM
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Hal - I listened to your file. A chainsaw is definitely a good description - and it sure sounds like you damaged something. FWIW - I talked to a Velodyne rep when I was considering a sub - and he told me they had the most problems with the HGS-10. He attributed the problem to people pushing them too hard in rooms that were too big.

I want a Masquerade.
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post #154 of 9631 Old 11-10-2003, 04:45 PM
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Well, before the problem, the volume does considerably drop off starting at about 30 hz. At the end of the AVIA sweep, it has lost a lot. I don't think I am over driving it since the volume is set to only 4 dots above the minimum. However, that does sound like something I would do. Now, when it gets to about 25 hz, the volume really increases; explodes almost.

My new room is basically just under 15x20. I also have 10 of the Aura bass shakers arranged in the seating area, so I have generally been satisfied with the bass performance. So, what ever punch I am lacking from the small sub is offset by the shakers.

What is the RS meter error? I have one of the older analog ones. I set the weighting to C and the response to fast. Does it have a problem with low freq's?

Regards,
- Hal
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post #155 of 9631 Old 11-10-2003, 07:49 PM
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most certainly does...it becomes less sensitive. I can't find the link now, but if you do a search on "Radio Shack compensation chart", you'll probably find it.

Ran
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post #156 of 9631 Old 11-10-2003, 10:01 PM
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Hal,

The sound you recorded sounds a lot like a sound I encountered. It was not with my Velodyne subs (I now have 2 - a VA1210 I purchased in 1997 and a HGS-18 Series II I purchased earlier this year), but with the powered subs on my 6 year old Polk Audio RT20P's. I have had to replace a couple of the bass drivers over the years (not for that sound, but for scraping of the voice coil in the magnet), but when I finally got the Avia DVD I was doing the frequency sweeps and I noticed a very similar noise that you have. Mine did not drop in volume though and it was not as noticeable when I was listening to music or movies. I have been planning on sending them in, but not until I get my new speakers in the next month or so. I figured it was a crossover problem (maybe inexpensive design, but I don't know for sure) since both of my powered subs in my main speakers do it.

In my opinion it sounds like your sub crapped out - I think the move may have just been a coincidence IMHO.

Dan

I want to be SHAKEN not stirred!!
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post #157 of 9631 Old 11-11-2003, 09:06 AM
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Well, looking at the compensation charts, it seem perhaps my sub performance does not drop off as much at the lower freq's than I thought. When I calibrate my sub, I generally use the AVIA reference tone that alternated between channels and the LFE. I have no idea what adjustment you would need to do to that rumble that the AVIA disc produces.

I have talked to Velodyne support and they were hopeful. Oh well, my sub is broken, though I am not sure if it is an amp problem or a coil problem. I will get this one fixed and perhaps buy a new one as well.

Regards,
- Hal
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post #158 of 9631 Old 11-12-2003, 07:09 AM
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Short version first: I brought home my new DD-15 last night and ran through setup and performed some initial tests. Velodyne deserves a lot of credit for this new sub-woofer, it's silky smooth, clean as a whistle, super fast and thumps hard down to 15Hz. I've listened to HGS18s in the past but simply don't have the room for one. I think the DD-15 would best the HGS18 in my family room considering flatter response, but that's purely speculation. The DD-15 is an astonishing sub, it's not often I get that kid in a candy store feeling. The on screen system settings and 8 band EQ are a knob-tweakers dream.

Long Version: Until last night I ran dual HGS-12IIs. Our family room had acoustic issues that could not be resolved with the Room Resonance Filter on the Anthem AVM20 preamp, so last night I upgraded one of my HGS12's to a DD-15. Since my preamp has set crossover points, I ran the EQ output from the Sub directly back into the input and was able to EQ the DD-15 to near ruler flat response from 15 to 100 Hz. Then, I got to thinking (my wife tells me this is normally a dangerous thing) that there were two EQ outputs on the DD-15, why not send one to the DD-15 and one to the HGS12 and see if I could EQ the DD-15 enough to compensate for the HGS12 placement as well. I got it fairly close, but not as good as I'd like. The DD-15 is in the better position but there's still not enough slide in the EQ to compensate for HGS12's location, so I powered off both subs and disconnected the HGS12. I ran some initial tests of the DD-15 against a baseline previously recorded with the dual HGS12s. The lone DD-15 bested both HGS12's by over 2db, and sounded much better as the bass response was much flatter. I'd previously set my crossover points at 75Hz for Theater and 55Hz for Music. I upped the crossover points to 75Hz for music as well with very good results. Very seamless integration and crossover between sub and B&W N804s/HTM1. I then connected the HGS12, and though the db count was up by about 6.5 over dual HGS12s, the lower 55Hz crossover sounded better because of EQ issues.

An upgrade of the second HGS12 to a DD series is definitely in the near future, now to decide between the DD-12 or DD-15, I really don't have the room for a DD-18. I don't think I really need another DD-15, so I'll likely go with a DD-12, if it's not enough, I still have a year to up from the DD-12 to the DD-15.

I haven't seen any reviews on the new DD series yet, and I know others are asking questions, so I thought I'd offer my thoughts for those also considering a new DD. I've had about 7 sub-woofers in and out of my system and the DD-15 is the best one by far. It's not extremely small, but fits nicely behind a chair. Again, the on screen system settings and 8 band EQ are a knob-tweakers dream, very comprehensive and functional. The DD-15 is as rugged and accurate as an M40A1 and hits almost as hard. In short, it's a music lover's fantasy and a bass junkie's fix all in one box.

Unlike the magazines, I'll also voice the two minor annoyances I have as well, one Velodyne can easily fix, the other is my own comical issue. 1 - The box is awkward to get a firm hold on, unless you have gorilla arms. Though it tips the scales at roughly 100 pounds, it would be easily manageable if there were build in hand holds on the box, and there's no double boxing as before with the HGS series, :-(. 2 - I've noticed some of my windows rattling and pots/pans rattling on the pot rack in the kitchen is more pronounced between 15 and 30Hz now, go figure....
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post #159 of 9631 Old 11-12-2003, 07:23 AM
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rwright - great review. I'm jealous. Send me a PM if you are interested in selling your HGS12.

I want a Masquerade.
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post #160 of 9631 Old 11-14-2003, 07:58 AM
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I've been considering the dd15 as well, can get on accomadation from velodyne....seems like it could replace the 2 subs I have now....
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post #161 of 9631 Old 11-14-2003, 10:08 AM
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An observation:

As a one time owner of 2 HGS-10 subs, I had the opportunity to open one of them up. Upon inspection, I noticed that there was an amount of Dacron stuffing contained therein. Presumably this is done to lower the Q(increase the dampening or "tightness") of the box.
As it so happens, I just came across a picture of the much higher priced clear acrylic version of the exact same sub, only this time, it contained NO dampening material. Presumably THIS was done to create a nicer/cleaner looking aesthetic.
Question is: wouldn't the removal of the stuffing affect the dampening of the sub? If not, why was it placed in the non-acrylic version in the first place? I asked Pete(velodyne service) about this and he seemed to imply that this was due to the differences between the acrylic(thicker/denser) and MDF cabinet structure. I say-"here, pull this leg, it plays jingle bells". Explanation?

Thanks,

Ran
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post #162 of 9631 Old 11-15-2003, 03:35 PM
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Hi ,
I need some advice,I just obtained velodyne cht 10 sub for my new ht
I would like to understand line level and speaker level setups
Which is best?(i have no satellite speakers)
My audio equipment is as follows

Infinity tower speakers for front speakers
infinty centre channel
integra 5.3 a/v receiver

thanks in advance
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post #163 of 9631 Old 11-16-2003, 08:06 PM
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Does anyone have any experience with the CHT12 subwoofer? How does the CHT line compare to the other Velodyne lines and other manufactures subs?

Thanks,
Greg
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post #164 of 9631 Old 11-16-2003, 10:09 PM
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Quote:


Originally posted by jossix
Hi ,
I need some advice,I just obtained velodyne cht 10 sub for my new ht
I would like to understand line level and speaker level setups
Which is best?(i have no satellite speakers)
My audio equipment is as follows

Infinity tower speakers for front speakers
infinty centre channel
integra 5.3 a/v receiver

thanks in advance

Hi Jossix,
Line level, also known as preamp or low level is usually the best way to feed a power amp or a powered subwoofer. Speaker level, also called power or high level would need to be transformed back to a lower level before inputting to another power amp (it's already coming from a power amp). For some older receivers and integrated amps there are no preamp jacks (line level) available to hook up a subwoofer and these can be connected speaker level and fed through a resistor circuit (internal in the subwoofer) to reduce the level down as if it were line level. So when available, line level hook-up is the preferred method.
Assuming your receiver is Dolby Digital, there will be a subwoofer jack for hooking up your CHT-10. You would use a single run of audio interconnect cable (also called rca cable). At the subwoofer end use a "Y" splitter into the two input jacks on the Velodyne.
If your Infinity towers use 6-1/2" woofers I would call them "small" when doing speaker setup. Then on the Velodyne sub, put the crossover switch to "direct". This will bypass our internal crossover. If your Infinity's have large woofers and you're calling them "large", then put our subwoofer crossover switch in the "in" position and adjust our crossover knob so the bass from the subwoofer blends with the bass from your Infinitys, probably somewhere between 40 and 60hz.
Hope this helps.
Curt
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post #165 of 9631 Old 11-17-2003, 09:02 AM
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thanks Curt
I am not too familiar with all of the terms
But my infinity Alpha 50 floor standing system have 3 speakers and a tweeter- the lagerst speaker is 8"(is this what you mean by "woofer size")
When playing some dvd's my velodyne just seems to stop working
I don't know if this is a connection issue, a receiver issue or if the subwoofer is malfunctioning.
I connected a smaller subwoofer and there were no problems of the type
I am encountering with the newer and more powerful velodyne
Any advice would be appreciated
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post #166 of 9631 Old 11-18-2003, 11:34 AM
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Jossix,
I sent you a personal message (PM) and haven't heard back. I need additional information in order to try and help. So please check your message and get back. When our subs shut down, it's usually the volume control is set to high on the Velodyne or the sub is to small for the room or rooms.
Curt
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post #167 of 9631 Old 11-19-2003, 06:30 PM
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thanks for your help Curt
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post #168 of 9631 Old 11-20-2003, 09:54 AM
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I previously upgraded one of my Velodyne HGS12IIs to a Velodyne DD-15 and posted my quick thoughts. I was so taken with the DD series that I upgraded my second HGS12II to a DD-12. All of the things I liked about the DD-15 are equally as likeable about the DD-12, the 12 doesn't go quite as low or loud as a DD-15, but it's very impressive for a 12" driver. FYI,
Output seemed to be about 2 to 2.5 db louder than an HGS12 and the 8 band parametric EQ made the bass response much flatter and precise.
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post #169 of 9631 Old 11-20-2003, 10:01 AM
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rwright,

Out of curiosity, what kind of extension and output levels are you getting in what size room? You might try posting some Radio Shack SPL meter results..corrected, of course.

Ran
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post #170 of 9631 Old 11-21-2003, 04:53 PM
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bump
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post #171 of 9631 Old 11-22-2003, 08:11 PM
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Bruce,
I have B&W 802's in a HT setup. I'm also using the Velodyne F-1500. I have the 1500 going into a Sony sound processor rather than into the (recommended) amplifier and then the speakers. Is this the right way to connect the 1500? I also have the 1500 in the front with the 802's (in the left corner). Is it okay to put the Velodyne in the front? I've read that the back of the room behind the viewer is where the sub should go. What are your thoughts? I was thinking about buying a second 1500 from someone. Is their a benefit from having two 1500's in the HT setup or is this overkill? The sub input on the Sony has two inputs for a subwoofer. I hooked the 1500 into the Sony using (red and white) the interconnect cable. Is this the way or should I connect differently as the sub has a "mono" sound? Thanks for answering my questions.
Tim
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post #172 of 9631 Old 11-23-2003, 02:04 PM
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Hi Tim,
The connection to the Sony processor is the correct hook-up for your equipment. The processor will also support two subwoofers if you go that route. Properly setup two will provide additional reserve for those explosions and heavy bass tracks on the newer movies. Rear position is no better than front, sometimes it's handier but both can provide equally good performance. Another consideration would be a new DD-15 or 18 as one of these would provide as good or better performance than a pair of F-15's with all the advantages of the digital computer.
Thanks,
Curt
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post #173 of 9631 Old 11-24-2003, 07:41 PM
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I finally got my sub and just had a chance to set it up initially. Yes, it is infinitely variable. Yes, it is relatively easy to use. Yes, it sounds super clean. Yes, it has scary power. I have it in a 6,500 cubic foot space using about 1/3 to 1/2 of the sub's volume. I don't know how to stop things like windows from rattling.
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post #174 of 9631 Old 11-24-2003, 08:10 PM
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You might consider moving to a more southernly climate where the permanent removal of your windows will most likely stop the rattling....unless it is the windowframe that is causing the problem.

Ran

ps- my advice is worth exactly what you've paid for it.
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post #175 of 9631 Old 11-24-2003, 08:33 PM
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vvv,

What sub did you have before the DD-18?

Allan
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post #176 of 9631 Old 11-24-2003, 08:53 PM
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I had an M&K V125 12 inch sealed box with a 125 watt AMP. Very clean sounding. not nearly enough impact for my new room.
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post #177 of 9631 Old 11-24-2003, 08:58 PM
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Curt,

I get much flatter response when I send the DD-18's frequency sweeps through my 7 channel stereo mode. Can I do this, or do I have to use the 2 channel mode?
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post #178 of 9631 Old 11-24-2003, 09:01 PM
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vvv,

Wow that was fast. I have a Vel. 18" also, not the DD. The room is about 3800 sq. feet. I just love the thing. I didn't know how much I was missing. Enjoy the new DD-18.

Allan
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post #179 of 9631 Old 11-25-2003, 08:09 AM
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vvv,

I'm jealous, I have a dd-15 and a dd-12 but not enough room to hide a dd-18, I can only imagine. For a quick grin, put Finding Nemo DVD in, go to Chapter 25 and feel Darla pound the aquarium. U-571 and T3 should be all new experiences as well.

r
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post #180 of 9631 Old 11-25-2003, 02:54 PM
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First thank you king of bass for answering questions here it is appreciated.

I have an F-1800R that was reviewed in Wide Screen Review and didn't receive a good review. Issue 24 page 69. Not sure of the details but Velodyne sent in another Sub for review and it recieved a much better review. Issue 26 page 79.

I purchased my F-1800R in March of 1997, and about a year ago it started thumping and humming very loudly. I sent it in for repair (the driver board) and I was told this was a common failure for that design.

I am still not satisfied with the repair that was done because I get intermittent problems similar to my first problems. And other problems that make it seem like it just isnt working properly.

My question is can I pay you to take it back with a trade out for a different model?
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