SVS B4 Subwoofer Product Review!!! - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 152 Old 11-18-2003, 02:19 PM
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After ‘wading’ through the measurement debate, almost giving up on this thread, I will post anyway. :)

Now that I have had a few weeks to play with my B4+ (I must say I am very impressed and pleased, maybe a bit giddy) sorry, back on track, turning the ports in different directions made a difference in both SPL and the sound itself in my HT. I have the B4+ in a corner (my room including openings to other rooms is about 6000 cf) I have turned the ports in all directions to see the effect, for me I like the ports firing to the wall (I must admit that I like the look of the ports facing forward), I have about 8†of stand off to the wall. In my case I get the most SPL out of that configuration, also sounds a bit better to the ear, then again I may just be deaf from all the reference level listening tests I was ‘forced’ to do with my new toy. :) (I have moved this big bad boy around by myself, not the most recommended way, lift with you back.. er, I mean legs, or better get a few friends to move it for you while you sit and enjoy a beer. :) )

I think that once you get your B4+ it is playtime, see what works best for you. I don’t think there is a right or wrong here, but it is something one needs to experiment with to get the desired results.

For the tuning plugs, I have played with using none, one, two, and even three, and it depends on what I am listening to and on what levels which way I like it better. For the most part I leave in one or two. For watching TV at normal sane levels I can’t tell a difference by ear with any of tuning configurations, depending on the 2 channel music I listen to I can’t tell either, however some good pipe organ music I like two or three ports plugged.

Just my opinion. This is subject to change as I play with my B4+ even more. :)

I only have one B4+ but I would think that side by side or stacking would be a good option for two.

~Dr. Spike
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post #92 of 152 Old 11-18-2003, 04:06 PM
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I forgot to mention being this is a review thread. The B4+ is great at reproducing 2 channel music it has no problems keeping the extremely fast kicks and bass licks in speed metal, death metal, and grindcore. Most subs tend to make this rather muddy, the B4+ is just clean and keeps up with the fastest I can throw at it. It will bump with the best, OK, better than the best for some hard-core rap as well. (Rap is not my favorite thing to listen to, but you can’t beat it for mega-bass. :) Pipe organ music and some good old classical orchestra, it reproduces the deepest of the bass that I have heard from any HT sub. (Ports tuned). This just handles anything I throw at it.

I think the B4+ is just truly the best you can get. However, I am biased, I have one. :)


If anyone is interested…

I feed the monster sub 3500 watts via a Peavey GPS 3500 mono-bridged. Peavey makes descent amps for the buck. This amp has very good response down to 10 Hz and below. I have used them along with Crown and Carver for many years in sound reinforcement and my recording studio. OK, I have used them in my old stereo setup and my HT. :) I’ve been using pro gear for my consumer amplification as far back as I can remember. I did push this with a Carver 2400 but the Peavey really opened up the low end of the sub, I mean below 15 Hz, I didn’t see a big gain in dB about 1 or 2 if my memory serves me, I am getting old…lol. I did gain more SPL below 15 Hz with the amp change, the exact numbers I can’t recall, I should add the tests were done with 3 ports plugged. I got good response down to 6 Hz with a complete drop off at 2 Hz. I will not go into how I tested or what I used to generate the sine waves. Or anything like that, I don’t want to kick up the measurement debate.

Sorry I got off track, I think because the B4+ is shaking my monitor I can't concentrate (everything is blurry)… LOL!

Anyway, just though I’d share. Go with SVS, enjoy the bass that you have been missing. :) (Shameless plug from a biased but very happy SVS customer and B4+ owner (can I really say owner, maybe it's more of a big roommate… LOL!). :)

~Dr. Spike
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post #93 of 152 Old 11-18-2003, 07:15 PM
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Why are you so surprised that when anytime even remotely says anything or even questions the performance of any SVS sub, the boys come a runin in no time. And why not, if they get a bad word here or any other forum sales suffer, they rely on forum advertising as I see it.

Most folks are wow'd when they hear any sub at all, why don't you go over to the audioreview site and read how incredible their new Sony 8" sub sounded, how you would have to pay so much more money for performance like this.

Folks PLEASE, the SVS owners here make it sound like the SVS sub is the holy grail or some how sOOOOOOO much better than anything else. Truth is, SVS is a fine sub no arguments about it, but I'm sick of hearing how people make it out to be the best thing since slice bread, when most of SVS designs are no different than other subs that have been out there way before SVS. HSU, and I even recall the days of the SAS bazooka bass tubes for car applications had cylinder subs.

Can anyone point me to a Professional review of an SVS sub by a reputable reviewer or magazine, say Stereophile?

Tom, you have some of the best customer service out of any company I have seen along with fine products at good prices, but this arguing here on the forum just makes you look bad IMHO. Put up a forum on your website and only come on here to solve customer service issues.. lot's of these stuff is very subjective as we all know, and you can argue on testing methods and which is better till the cows come home...

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post #94 of 152 Old 11-18-2003, 08:32 PM
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I guess John JOhnson sucks huh? Mendes, quit with the ********...If you have to rain on everyones parade, then you must be of that lower self esteem bunch...I believe that more people have been helped with placement and settings on this forum to try and see if things can be "perfect" for them...I see this as a good thing...I don't see the big heads of Velo, paradigm and wilson here to give us any thoughts on why the product functions as it does...SVS gets bashed for having a great product and backing it up 24/7......No one forces you to read this...just move on...your opinion is only going to bring a mod to bitch at you for starting a flame war. Isn't it funny how many spend thousands on these subs and never look back having "buyers blues?" Is it coincidence? no, its because of what they deliver and how they handle the sale from email to years after support with a magnificent product...some are willing to grab a the pb2 for a bit more than the HSU...because its worth the extra "punch"...and the B4+ is basically a "no need to ever upgrade" sub...Glad I found "these guys" you are speaking of...hats off to the forum and SVS...keep rockin man! 3

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post #95 of 152 Old 11-18-2003, 08:55 PM
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mendes9, I must be missing something in this thread????

Isn’t the topic of this thread ‘SVS B4 Subwoofer Product Review’?

Should SVS owners then just say absolutely nothing about it?

The B4+ is not a cylinder sub, and yes, I do remember the bazooka tubes, I have had many of them over the years.

Fact is there are a lot of fine subs out there, there is no question about that.

I don’t think in this thread anyone claimed that the SVS is something that has never been done in some fashion. I.e. a tube. Did I mention the B4+ is NOT a tube? It is a box. GASP! A box you say? Everyone has made a box, it is like all the rest. I'm sure many sub makers have a 4-12" sub box on the market? And yes I know there are CAR subs with 4 or more in the box! This is HT we are talking are we not? I could be wrong though. I also know and HAVE bass-bins for sound reinforcement that have more than 4 woofers. So I am not saying this is a new idea, however I haven’t seen one built like this. I say hats off to SVS for the design!

If you are sick of hearing it or reading it, I ask is someone forcing you to read this thread? How about not reading something you are not interested in? It happens all the time, someone is not interested in something they don’t read it, listen to, or watch it. You, as we all are, entitled to say what ever we want, you just seem to want us to shut up because you are sick of hearing it. This is a thread on the SVS B4. We are not blasting other subs in this thread that I can tell.

So if a magazine like Stereophile has not reviewed this sub, then what? I am not sure what you mean by that, because it hasn’t SVS owners should say how much the like them???

Maybe I miss read your message, but it sounded to me like, SVS owners, shut up, stop saying that you like your sub and saying that it is good or in their opinion great, because SVS owners are not reputable reviewers or magazines. And SVS owners have no place on this forum to talk about SVS. Except for support issues. Seems to me that most of the threads and messages here about people claiming to have great equipment no matter what it is should not be posting such information. I take it that Secrets of Home Theater and High Fidelity and John E. Johnson, Jr. are NOT reputable? I guess that was not a professional review?

I really don’t know where you are going or trying to say other than we should shut up??

Why are you reading this if all you want to do is blast SVS and SVS owners?

I for one am very happy with my SVS B4+. If I can help others with theirs is that wrong?

I am not trying to flame you nor start a flame war. I just don’t understand what you are getting at or trying to go with your post. Maybe you just want to try and start something?

I apologize to all if this came across as a flame in anyway.

~Dr. Spike
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post #96 of 152 Old 11-18-2003, 09:27 PM
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I wonder if Russ Hershellman will swap his M&K MPS-350 (www.uhte.com) for a B-4? I wonder if Skywalker Ranch will swap their M&K subs out with B-4s?

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post #97 of 152 Old 11-18-2003, 09:51 PM
 
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I'm sure the B4+ kicks some ass, but I wonder why SVS is charging so much for it? $2500+ for 4 TC Sounds 12" drivers in a ported 26x32" black ash box, sounds like an uncharacteristic 100% profit for SVS?

Do materials on this sub run more than $1200 at the volume they buy them? At $2000 shipped, this sub might be a possibility for me. At $2500, I'll wait for a used one to go on sale...

Until then, I'm still lovin my SVS Ultra...

PS - I've still never gotten my new grill or port plugs...
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post #98 of 152 Old 11-18-2003, 10:11 PM
 
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Thank God I didn't buy a adire sub
threecard,
Did you really need to post this comment? Have you ever owned an Adire subwoofer? If not, then what is your point except to add to the ******** in this thread? I've heard nothing but good things about Adire subwoofers and DIY subs built using their drivers.

If you think SVS is perfect, I've owned a pair of 20-39s and what was supposed to be the first Ultra on the market(TV, I won't rehash that old story here). And... I still haven't received my new grill or the promised port plugs... at least a year later???

But, I do still love my Ultra. And, I'd guess that I'd probably love my Sadahara or Dharmans as well.
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post #99 of 152 Old 11-19-2003, 12:11 AM
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This thread was an interesting read,
Merc, just ignore 3card.

He's just a "fanboy" and their opinions while valid as opinions get very low priority.
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post #100 of 152 Old 11-19-2003, 05:51 AM - Thread Starter
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FanBoy,

This word get's thrown around a lot on forums when people like a brand or other brands in their system. Hell, we all have a particular product we love and recommend. So i guess that makes us all "FAN-BOYS"!!

Now don't get me wrong, some of us on these forums can be over da top when we are excited about a product. This thread was fine until the Cause & Effect took place. (i.e)

mendes9 post was the Cause. I feel it was not necessary and vented in the wrong thread. Not to mention he sounds as he has an axe to grind (down boy, it's not that serious) which is not productive to this thread nor forum.

3card post was the Effect. When someone attacks out of know where this is what you going to get. (why entertain these post) 3card made some good points in his post, but he was also upset. Does this make it right.........no it does not.

Now can we just stick to the topic thx.

Tee

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post #101 of 152 Old 11-19-2003, 07:08 AM
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Thanks Terence....I quit posting on this thread because of the BS going on here..I created my own thread which I can say is doing very well, and anyone of you whom has interest can join in with your questions about it.

As far as the pricing on the B4+...I take it you haven't seen it live....it is a beautiful hand-crafted sub, pperfectly matched, and solid as a rock......musical, yet able to take my crown K1 to its knees if need be....

Adil, you have 12 posts and jump on the bandwagon? I have people that have thanked me 10 fold for saving them cash(some buying servos, velos etc) that they THOUGHT sounded great...which, yes some do...but for more cash...nice to get great results, better service, and a a fatter wallet...like others have said, if you don't like the topic, go read something else. 3

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post #102 of 152 Old 11-19-2003, 07:21 AM
 
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As far as the pricing on the B4+...I take it you haven't seen it live....it is a beautiful hand-crafted sub, pperfectly matched, and solid as a rock......musical, yet able to take my crown K1 to its knees if need be....
IMO, SVS is known for its' bang-for-the-buck performance due to their direct to the public business strategy. The B4+ seems to fit the high performance part of the equation, but not pricing part(as keeping with the usual SVS lower mark-up/profit margin). Typically, SVS prices their subs in line with what a veteran DIY'er would charge. It seems to me that the B4+ is priced more like a Rel than an SVS... Some of us want B4+ performance in a black box, and it seems like us black box folks are subsidizing those that want glitsy mahogany?

Maybe SVS needs a non-furniture version of the B4+?
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post #103 of 152 Old 11-19-2003, 07:23 AM
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Merc...my reasoning for this was nothing to do with the sub itself if you read the post...it has to do with no one listening to the thread, and Mr wiggins continuing to yap AFTER I tried 3 times to get the thread back in order...this to me is someone whom doesn't want to listen to what others have to say....it should have stopped a while back...had he listened to the people actually posting...He took it upon himself to come in and post away starting something with the prior posters...

On the cash side...I did speak with the cabinet owner making the subs...he has told me that they only ship out the best wood he can get his hands on...and his guess was 40 man hours to create the box(I believe he said 15 hours of "hand sanding"...if you do see one live, you'll see what they can do....it is simply stunning to the eyes...and to the touch.

Would Lucas switch...I doubt he has ever heard of SVS...I'm sure M&K is a pretty good supporter of his THX jargon....Just having them in his place he's probably compensated quite well:) He has plenty of cash to buy or have built the meanest, most accurate sub available...why he went with M&K is stated above..my guess:)

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post #104 of 152 Old 11-19-2003, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by 3card
"...and the B4+ is basically a "no need to ever upgrade" sub
This is the biggest fallacy of all!!

There are always better products / values....... :D


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post #105 of 152 Old 11-19-2003, 07:32 AM
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You can get the B4+ stripped down for 1999 bucks...you finish the staining etc...something I'd rather leave to them:) Check into the new offering coming up...its part of the PB2 series...I believe they are shooting for Christmas ship time...The Ultra :) I guess I never thought about what profit they could possibly make on these...hats off to them for making a sub that competes with the big dogs...and keeps money in my pocket....I mean IF you were to create something...say a processor for a computer that waxed the newest P4(saying the P4 is 600 bucks) and you did it all for 100...you could easily go out and get 400 for it...remember, research and development counts in the price too...whats funnny is people will be fired up that they can get a better Pro for 200 bucks less...I'm all for that:)

computer stuff may not be the best comparison, but ya get the idea:) 3

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post #106 of 152 Old 11-19-2003, 07:42 AM
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Come on Jeff..although someday I'd like to hear those dual B-Deaps!! I'm sure they are amazing...black just wouldn't cut it for my wife...one reason I know I know....but in MY home...it will not be replaced...hence me spending the cash on it for that reason....is there better, Im sure...the question is DO I need more? no chance..I can't play REF at my house as it is Ironically Jeff..I was just showing my wife your setup last night lol...and me Pm'in you a while back stirred it up to have me show her your "new" HT modification to your house. <----will she bite is the next question Just so someone doesn't think you will go into battle, make sure they see that "SMILE" you put after your post lol... I just realized you just across a couple boarders from me lol...could be a drive sometime in the future

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post #107 of 152 Old 11-19-2003, 08:01 AM
 
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Quote:
You can get the B4+ stripped down for 1999 bucks...you finish the staining etc...
That's a great idea! Even folks who don't want simple black can stain their sub to perfectly match whatever they want. :)

I'll have to look into this...
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post #108 of 152 Old 11-19-2003, 08:17 AM
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Hey, glad I could help:) you could sell your current and put the cash toward the unfinished one:)

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post #109 of 152 Old 11-19-2003, 09:19 AM
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Merc,

If your grill/port plug upgrade hasn't arrived after a year, I think it's safe to say it's not going to arrive, ever. At least not without a note of reminder/concern to us. ;^)

Either it never went out, we never slotted it to go out, it went out and got lost, or ... hell, it doesn't matter really now does it?

If we owed you something and you didn't get it then just drop us a line and we'll get on it. A year late it would seem but still!

PS: We don't advertise "stripped" B4-Plus subs but have worked some requests that simply had "finish yourself" versions go out, typically without the high end hard maple veneer we use for fully dressed retail models. Instead I think they have had the standard underlying birch veneer. Anyone trying to shave off the last dollar of something they might simply be looking to paint black anyway need only contact us.

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post #110 of 152 Old 11-19-2003, 09:30 AM
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Jeff, you must have a doctorate of philosophy in wit man, you are right, they are many subwoofers out there.
As far as how a sub looks is a minority in my book as I hide all my stuff.
As far as Lucasfilm trying SVS, I do not know. They look like a great sub (the b4+ at least), I must have not had a demo yet. But price should never be a factor in determining what is the best sub made.

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post #111 of 152 Old 11-19-2003, 09:46 AM
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HTG--> Lets face it..someone out there..maybe Kyle R, Tom V, TN, or any other bad boy can make a sub ugly as can be that will trounce anything out there...it will be loaded to **** with drivers, gobs of power, and will not pass my wife in the house:) With a million bucks you can build one..I'm sure...price does matter...because its "reality"....when people compare, it is best for the dollar...is your dollar worth the 10-30k wilson/krell subs? Are they 25k better...I would be willing to bet not...*smiles* I am proud of the look of my sub and wouldn't hide it..I have a rather large room, and it fits right in..perfectly matched...cats like it:) Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have a supersub...but in all practicality, it isn't needed....this baby will do just fine...and the wife actually likes it *lol*...The cylinder wasn't getting good points from her though...*smiles*..not trying to stir things up...just hanging in there on the thread...I don't think Jeff meant price should matter...just that better values could be ahead...which i do agree...but have yet to see ...I guess I'm not looking anymore...maybe thats the reason*lol*...3

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post #112 of 152 Old 11-19-2003, 10:21 AM
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the reason why lucas film goes with m&k subs, is to match the m&k speakers. don't get me wrong here, i love my pb2+, but i can't imagine anyone putting down an m&k mx5000. i haven't heard one, but i've read enough to know that it is a serious contender to almost any sub. if u wanted to compare a b4+ sub with the m&k, don't forget that u have to compare one b4+ to two mx5000's. yes i realize that there is a huge difference in price, but remember, that doesn't matter to lucasfilm. i doubt lucasfilm actually has to pay for those speakers.
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post #113 of 152 Old 11-19-2003, 10:24 AM
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Well, my point was that anyone in this hobby who buys a product and says they'll never needto upgrade for life is only fooling themselves. This hobby has a way of extracting money out of those for slightly better performance.

I am sure the SVS B-4 is an excellent sub but let's face it, room size and acoustics are almost as important as the sub selected. In the right sized room, with EQ and proper acoustical treating, I have no doubt that lesser subs can outperform a super sub in a non- treated room with a freq. response all over the map.

Point is upgrading is an affliction that is toughto beat, even when you think you are ideal. Better performance values will always pop up!!


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post #114 of 152 Old 11-19-2003, 10:44 AM
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FWIW, Mark Seaton posted that George Lucas has 4 Contrabasses with 2 K2s in his personal HT ... So there. :)
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post #115 of 152 Old 11-19-2003, 10:57 AM
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I have to admit that while watching T-3 the other night (at THX ref level of course) my hearing was a little dulled afterwards. MY wife loved it but in terms of deep bass, there are better soundtracks. However, in terms of numbers of explosions and misc bass tones, this soundtrack is king. The number of 'bass events' is outrageous. A bass festival. Even between action sequences, the 20 hz pulse that accompanies the soundtrack seemed more detrimental than the blasts. It was like a throbbing.eek:

The fact that Lucas also has ServoDrive subs in his theater, makes me think he must be heading towards deafness like I am. I, too, watch all film material at THX reference level.:D :


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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #116 of 152 Old 11-19-2003, 11:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally posted by thebland
Well, my point was that anyone in this hobby who buys a product and says they'll never needto upgrade for life is only fooling themselves. This hobby has a way of extracting money out of those for slightly better performance.
What you are referring to my friend is something that eats at you until it turns into an obsession, and you can't shake it no matter how much you try but wait........you realize deep down inside you like it! One way or the other no matter who you are, how much money you have or don't have! It...Will....Get you! what is this you ask? What is it's name name? It's name is............ UPGRADINGS!!! Dum, Dum, Dummmm (Scream) The horror, the humanity....Ah where's my wallet?! :D

Nice to see you chime in Jeff. How is your HT now all better?

Tee

"Enjoy Movies & Music"


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post #117 of 152 Old 11-19-2003, 11:06 AM
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*smiles* I have read that about Lucas also..him using contra's....Jeff, you are correct in saying that acoustics play a HUGE part. Value or not..I don't feel as though I need anymore out of the bass end...I've knocked enough **** down already:) Now I have been tamed a bit...I'm into the accuracy more than the SPL...still amazes me as does the B-deaps I'm sure at how accurate they are...3

Know when to hold'em, know when to fold'em....keep'em tight, or its my money tonight...
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post #118 of 152 Old 11-19-2003, 11:07 AM
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Jeff...now on other things..I have plans to upgrade...*smiles*....*laughing*...it is a sickness ya know...

Know when to hold'em, know when to fold'em....keep'em tight, or its my money tonight...
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post #119 of 152 Old 11-19-2003, 11:18 AM
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Tee,

My theater is back. My friend repaired the tweeters (soldered in new domes) and I am bridging the amp into the center channel for more power (in case the amp ran out of power during playback). So, I am back in business!

I am still puzzled as to why my center blew during 'Nemo' ?? The speakers are 8 years old (Citation 7.2 LCRs) and have not had an easy existence under my long ownership, so perhaps age may've played a part. They are 4 Ohm speakers and until I bridged the amp, they were getting 250 watts (now over 400 watts).

The problem is my new subs are not the limiting factor in playback, my LCRs are the weak links in the chain and since my room is flat (EQ'd), I can now playback all soundtracks at reference without strain nor dialog intelligibility problems Whispers are intelligible whispers, dialog is natural, and blasts shake the room....all at reference level. My room is approx 5500 cubic feet and the Citations (though THX Ultra rated) are not able to output the desired levels in such a room.

Mark Seaton has some new speakers that I will check out (not on the market yet) that WILL be able to play at the desired levels and improve my dynamic range at higher levels. My Citations peeter out and get into some driver compression at high levels (limiting dynamic range). Simply, they are not capable of keeping up with the subs nor this size room. The new ServoDrive speakers ('Runts') are designed to have high output and maintain their dynamics at high output levels. They should be arriving soon.

BTW - Thanks for asking!


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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #120 of 152 Old 11-19-2003, 11:23 AM
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3, don't upgrade, you should be fine for a long whille!!!! ;)


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There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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Closed Thread Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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