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post #31 of 2525 Old 12-01-2003, 08:11 AM
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Dan, I am doing the same thing as you are. 4 Pros and looking to see what base plate you order (before 6:00pm) for free shipping. "What 50 Hz low pass filters " did you get?

- Scott
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post #32 of 2525 Old 12-01-2003, 10:45 AM
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Scott,

I went with the 50 Hz FMOD low pass in-line RCA filters and this amp from Parts Express:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...ID=15985&DID=7

I don't really need remote controlled cross overs (you usually just adjust them to taste and forget it), but the remote volume control will make things so much easier if the amp winds up in another room, and/or if I want to adjust the intensity of the "rumble" from my seat.

Good luck! The next step in audio/visual stimulus is about to begin!

-----------

Still any suggestions on wiring 4 Pros with a 4 ohm load off of a mono plate amp?

Thanks again!

Dan

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post #33 of 2525 Old 12-01-2003, 11:25 AM
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The suggestions for the dorm bass-shaker wiring so far all have a slight problem. The problem is that the bass-shakers will not get equal power delivered to them from the amplifier.

In one example drawn in an earlier post, with two 8 ohm groups in series with a single 4 ohm driver, the single shaker will get HALF of the power of the amplifier, the other 4 will split the other HALF of the power between them. (In other words, they each get 1/16th of the power) Now, it is true that the impedance presented to the receiver is great, but the difference in shaking between the chairs will result in a rather poor implementation. (in my opinion)

The situation is even worse with the drawing of 9 shakers (three sets of three) in series with 1 shaker. Now we have 1/18th the power to most of the shakers, and half in the other.

A better solution would be to deliver EQUAL power to each of the shakers. I can only think of three (easy) ways to get there. None are perfect. One is outright bad.

BAD - NOT RECOMMENDED
Wire 5 of the drivers in parallel to the left channel of the amplifier, and 5 in parallel to the right channel. This would result in an impedance of somewhere .8 ohms. (that connection results in less than one ohm impedance and will probably harm the output transistors in most amplifiers if run at any volume)

BETTER
Wire 5 of the shakers in series. 5 x 4 ohms results in a 20 ohm load. Connect it to the left channel, wire another 5 in series to the right channel. The disadvantage of this is that the amplifier will not nearly deliver as much power output (only about a third actually) as if it had an 8 ohm load, it will be an easy load for the amplifier. If things shake enough... you are done.

BETTER - and what I would try first
Take 5 of of the shakers and wire them in series. Do the same with the other 5 shakers. Each set is 20 ohms. Parallel both sets and connect them to ONE channel of your amplifier, leaving the other channel unused. The series-paralleled sets will result in an impedance of 10 ohms and allow your amplifier to deliver most of its rated output. and each shaker will get the same amount of power.

BEST
Take up a collection at your dorm... buy two more shakers. You should be able to find a pair for about $30. (NOW you have 12 shakers) Find two more chairs and invite two more friends... have them bring the popcorn/drinks. Then, wire three shakers in series, connect them in parallel with another three in series and connect the six to one channel of your amplifier. This will be a 6 ohm load and your amplifier will probably drive it easily. Do the same with the other 6 shakers. Connect to the other channel of the amp.

Code:

                       Amplifier (one channel illustrated)
                                +        -
   ------------------------------|        |--------------------------------
   |                                                                      |
   |                                                                      |
   +--------[+==-]------------------[+==-]-----------------[+==-]---------+
   |                                                                      |
   +--------[+==-]------------------[+==-]-----------------[+==-]---------+




                                   [+==-]  = bass shaker


You do not have to go crazy keeping track of polarity of the shakers. It does not really matter since each is on a different chair. (And if you can tell that your dorm-mate's chair is moving/vibrating upward when yours is moving/vibrating downward, you are probably sitting too close...) It is different when you have multiple speaker cones all trying to move the air in the room. Then, you want the cones to all be moving in the same direction at the same time, and polarity matters. With shakers, you will not be able to tell.

At least with this wiring scheme, all the seats are vibrating the same amount and the amplifier is seeing a reasonable load.


Edited to fix drawing and description....

Joe L.
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post #34 of 2525 Old 12-01-2003, 11:34 AM
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So, if I want four 4 ohm shakers on a mono plate amp and be able to have the amp still see a 4 ohm load, and have all the shakers have equal power going to each, I should wire in series/parallel... correct?

So, I guess I need some speaker wire connection screw on crimps now and some electrical tape!

Dan

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post #35 of 2525 Old 12-01-2003, 11:45 AM
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Dan,

Exactly correct.

Two in parallel would result in a 2 ohm load. Then, two parallel sets in series would give you a 4 ohm load. (perfect for most plate amps)

This would also provide equal power distribution to the shakers. (the flaw I saw with some of the previous 10 shaker solutions suggested in this thread)

Joe L.
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post #36 of 2525 Old 12-01-2003, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Joe L,
I have a quick question.
I'm considering adding my extra pair of "normal" shakers to my setup (with the stereo prologic amp).
I'm thinking of adding one to each channel to make a 3 shaker series on each channel at 12ohm each. Will this damage anything or just reduce the overall power to each?

I also want to make the 3 pair easy to dis-connect. Any problems with this as long as the power is off? (The 3rd pair would go on "guest" glider chairs that might be moved around or removed from the room occasionally...

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post #37 of 2525 Old 12-01-2003, 12:15 PM
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bob_vdi

That would work just fine. You would end up with a 12 ohm load on your amplifier, and its total power output would be a bit less, but it would not damage anything.

Most amplifiers do not like their outputs shorted when they are turned on, so make your connections with the power turned off.

Joe L.
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post #38 of 2525 Old 12-01-2003, 04:19 PM
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Quote:


I know these (Shakers) are 4 ohms at 25 watts each, and would love to have the front two rows (6) shakers on one channel and the last row (4) shakers on the other channel.

Jessica,
Re-reading your initial post, and giving this a bit more thought, you could connect six of the shakers as I originally described to one channel. (two sets of three shakers in series. Three in series = 12 ohms. Two sets of three in series then paralleled would be 6 ohms. Put that on one channel on your stereo amplifier. Then, four in series/parallel would give you a 4 ohm set. Put that on your other channel.

Lastly (and it did not occur to me till now) adjust the balance control on the amplifier so the front set are vibrating as strongly as the set on the rear row. This way, you do not have to buy any additional shakers, and any money you collected from your dorm-mates can be used for more beer/soda/popcorn/etc.


Attached is a crude drawing showing the wiring.

Joe L.
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post #39 of 2525 Old 12-01-2003, 05:32 PM
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Dan, I will have to come up to Fort Collins someday.

I agree with Joe: series/parallel wiring on a bridged plate amp. Using banana plug adapters on a 5-way binding post can help resist corrosion.

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post #40 of 2525 Old 12-03-2003, 07:21 AM
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Thanks everyone for a great thread - it seems like the bass shaker install question comes up every few weeks. Well I am about to add my request for advice to the mix. I appreciate your advice.

What I have - (6) 50 watt Aura pro bass shakers.
(3) recliners
(1) couch
(1) 500 watt 5.1 stereo to drive the bass shakers
(1) HK 525 stereo for regular speakers

My current plan is to run a Y cable splitting the LFE from my HK to the sub and my 500 watt stereo. I plan to add a second Y RCA cable to the input line on the 500 watt stereo to get a Left and Right signal.

I then plan to wire (1) bass shaker to each recliner and (3) to the couch.

I plan to wire the shakers in series in pairs as outputs for the Left/Right/Center speaker runs from the stereo. Each output is rated 100 watts so I think I should get 100 watts at 8 ohms for each channel by running the 50 watt bass shakers at 4 ohms in series.

Does this sound correct or is there a better way?

Thank you in advance.
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post #41 of 2525 Old 12-03-2003, 08:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Foxman,
You wiring setup is almost the same as my drawing (first post of this thread).
BEFORE you wire up 3 pairs, you might want to check a few things on your old 5.1 receiver.
1) Does it have a Stereo 2 channel mode?
2) Does it have a MONO 3 or 5 Channel Mode?
The reason I ask is...
I THINK most 5.1 receivers will not send the same signal to the Center as the LEFT and right by design. Thus a Stereo 2 channel or MONO 3 channel setup is what you really want.

Your math it right 4ohm + 4 = 8 per channel
But your output might not be equal on the center compared to the L&R.

IF you have to use only 2 channels just wire 2 pairs of 3 in series and get 12ohms per channel. Some one posted above this won't hurt the receiver just reduce the total output to each shaker.

However don't let that be a deterent! You probably won't have the shakers at full volume anyways!!! (Too high and your bum starts to get numb and a little annoyed...)

Good Luck!

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post #42 of 2525 Old 12-03-2003, 09:56 AM
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Bob knows what he is talking about.

One thing I would mention about crossover points. You could use two Harrison Labs PFMOD RCA in-line crossovers. Place them between your processor audio out and your multi-channel amp audio IN. These attenuators come in all frequencies, get the low pass one, I believe it is 70HZ. They are 12dB/octave, but you can stack them for a steep 24dB/octave slope. These will keep the voices from being vibrated from the Shakers.


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post #43 of 2525 Old 12-03-2003, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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hometheaterguy,
How do you know which Hz version to buy if you're a crossover newbie who just want to crank up their shakers without feeling EVERYTHING?

Is it personal preference? Experience? Experimentation? Calculations based on your equipment and desired output?

How do "I" pick the right one for me simple inexpensive setup? (I wish I bought these with the shakers to save shipping )

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post #44 of 2525 Old 12-03-2003, 03:28 PM
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Bob the crossover point in this application is chosen by what crossover points cut voices and frequencies above 200HZ. You are safe with anything 200HZ and below. It has been determined that sounds below that are "less" localized and therefore are mostly felt, not heard.

THX, standing for Thomas Holman's X-over is 80HZ. Sony uses a 100HZ cut-off in their decoders.

The 100HZ LP (Low Pass) PFMOD would never need replacing if you go with that one. Just make sure you get a low pass.

If you have a shop in your town that sells raw speaker drivers, they are sure to sell PFMODs. Any car audio shop will as well.

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post #45 of 2525 Old 12-03-2003, 05:08 PM
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Bob - thank you for the feedback - I will check the receiver to see if I can get equal output to each channel. I will let you know how it turns out.
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post #46 of 2525 Old 12-03-2003, 05:42 PM
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I have read of people using the FMOD 50 Hz low pass because they could still feel vibrations on things like doors slamming, etc. That doesn't sound all that realistic. I've never felt tremors in my couch when someone closes a door hard!

A lot of it is personal preference.

Dan

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post #47 of 2525 Old 12-03-2003, 09:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by foxman
Bob - thank you for the feedback - I will check the receiver to see if I can get equal output to each channel. I will let you know how it turns out.

Glad I could help! I created the post/sketches to help newbies like me that might have an extra receiver and limited speaker wiring knowlegde.
----------------
I'm considering putting my old passive sub that came with the prologic reciever on the center channel just to see what happens. (In 3 speaker prologic? mode - It doesn't have a mono mode only stereo, 3 speaker or 5 speaker prologic)

Unfortunatley I just put it under our tiny 4.5 foot tree to prop it up near the window.

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post #48 of 2525 Old 12-03-2003, 09:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Does that mean the 70hz versions would be a nice comprise between THX and Sony? Use one or two? (Sold in pairs on parts express).

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post #49 of 2525 Old 12-10-2003, 08:37 PM
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Sorry, Bob, just got back to this thread. Well my Lexicon pre/pro has an adjustable (variable) crossover adjustment, I will be using the PFMODs for just the Shakers.

I would use the 100HZ PFMODS. You will get a little more mid-bass vibrations.

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post #50 of 2525 Old 12-11-2003, 05:51 AM - Thread Starter
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hometheaterguy,
I will have to find/read my receiver's manual, but don't HT receivers with SUB out already cut most/some of the highs out and send the rest to the front speakers?
Or do they just cut them off around 200?

At the moment I'm probably not going to buy the FMODs (getting low on $$) and at the moment what I have works.

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post #51 of 2525 Old 12-11-2003, 07:20 AM
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Hi Bob, good seeing you.

Yes, a receiver with SUB, or LFE out will cut high pass frequencies. Yes, you will have to review your manual to find the exact crossover point as some manufactures have different crossover points. You are at liberty to use this connection. I did not know you had it available, I thought you were using a conventional sub with it.

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post #52 of 2525 Old 12-12-2003, 07:34 PM
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Great Shaker Link: http://www.alegriaaudio.com/bass_shakers.htm

Going to BB means rubbing elbows w/ the Unwashed Masses

No thanks

Netflix for me!
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post #53 of 2525 Old 12-12-2003, 11:58 PM
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Great article Mike, thanks.

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post #54 of 2525 Old 12-15-2003, 08:20 AM - Thread Starter
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OK I've got a question about my Sherwood Prologic Receiver (don't have model# handy), that is shown in my original sketch at the beginning of this thread.

I'm considering adding a 3rd pair of shakers. I'm considering adding the pair to my Center channel, and switching the receiver to 3channel "prologic" mode. Is this likely to work evenly per pair or will the center shake like mad?
-----
Reminder - Mono signal from 6.1 Receiver's Sub-Out - Split to powered sub and split again to L&R input of Prologic Receiver - 2 pairs of shakers - 1 pair in parallel to L and 1 pair to R out.
-----
Is the Center channel idea going to work or should I make 2 pairs of 3 shakers?
I'm currently out of wire so experimenting won't be easy unless I find some scraps.

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post #55 of 2525 Old 12-16-2003, 08:16 PM
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Ok, not to beat this to death, but my electrical engineering is pretty weak. I have 6 bass shakers and 2 rows of 3 seats. I will be using the Aura Bass Shaker Pro's (6 in total). I also just purchased the 250 watt plate amplifier mentioned from parts express. What is the best way to wire these up so that I can get the most out of my amp?

Is simply wiring 2 sets of 3 shakers in series my best option here?

Thanks.
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post #56 of 2525 Old 12-16-2003, 10:34 PM
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" 3channel "prologic" mode. Is this likely to work evenly per pair or will the center shake like mad?" (Bob)

I think you mean 3-channel stereo as Dolby Pro Logic is L, C, R, and mono surround (4-channel). In 3-stereo you will have equal power, but in DPL, yes the center will have more output regardless of the crossover point.

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post #57 of 2525 Old 12-17-2003, 05:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by hometheaterguy
" 3channel "prologic" mode. Is this likely to work evenly per pair or will the center shake like mad?" (Bob)

I think you mean 3-channel stereo as Dolby Pro Logic is L, C, R, and mono surround (4-channel). In 3-stereo you will have equal power, but in DPL, yes the center will have more output regardless of the crossover point.

OK
Well at least on that receiver I can adjust the Rear and Center channels lower than the Main (L&R). So that should work for my "extra" chairs. Now I have to check if they can be installed.
-------------

Quote:


digitaltrader
Ok, not to beat this to death, but my electrical engineering is pretty weak. I have 6 bass shakers and 2 rows of 3 seats. I will be using the Aura Bass Shaker Pro's (6 in total). I also just purchased the 250 watt plate amplifier mentioned from parts express. What is the best way to wire these up so that I can get the most out of my amp?

Is simply wiring 2 sets of 3 shakers in series my best option here?

Is that a mono amp? How many out put connections does it have. (I'm not familar with them).
If they have 2 out puts make TWO pairs of Three
If they have 3 out puts make Three pairs of TWO (but that seems silly with 2 rows).
If they have only 1 out put, you have to check earlier parts of the thread. I didn't quite know how to do that. That's why I saved $$ and used my old receiver which came out of our bedroom.

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post #58 of 2525 Old 12-18-2003, 12:36 PM
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Sorry to bring this thread back up as it seems to have all the answers, but it can be quite confusing with every scenario each of us has.

Well here I go with my set up and how to properly connect my Aura 25 watt bass shakers.

First I have two rows of three Irwin Marquee theatre seats (each on its on riser - back row is 10" off the ground and the first row is 2.5" off floor)

I have an old 100w BIC subwoofer(SWA-100) amp (piece of cr@p - hums way to loud - will replace after holidays). I am feeding this amp from a split RCA sub connection from my Harmon Kardon HK300 into a Paradigm PS1000 and then it splits (mono -rca connection) to this amp, I then split the mono rca connection to a stero rca connection and feed this into the BIC amp.

This amp has only 1 output (+/-) out for subwoofer, but does have Left and right channel outputs as well. I can also set the amp for 8 or 4 Ohms.

What is the best way to connect my 4 25watt Aura bass shakers? Also, this amp hums very loudly(well enough that I hear it in dialogue scenes) - is this normal or is it just because this amp is Cr@p?

thanks for the help.

Jeff
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post #59 of 2525 Old 12-19-2003, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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humming electronics does not sound very safe in the long run.
I'm not familar with sub amps but...
Try hooking up a pair of pararell shakers to each channel (left and right).
Other wise check the series formula above and try to come up with a setup that will give 4 or more ohms total and hook up to the sub output.
(sorry to busy at work to help beyond that).

BTW I think this post should keep growing rather than a new post every few days!

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post #60 of 2525 Old 12-19-2003, 12:15 PM
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"BTW I think this post should keep growing rather than a new post every few days!" (from Bob)

Don't worry, it will.

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