Shakers - Simple/Cheap Hookup - Visual Guide - Page 22 - AVS Forum
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post #631 of 2507 Old 04-20-2005, 12:14 PM
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Originally posted by Huskerfan
And after the movie you can crank the bass up and have a little fun with your significient other when you spread the hidabed out!

I just have to find a good Barry White SACD or DVD-A..
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post #632 of 2507 Old 04-20-2005, 01:52 PM
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Getting off topic aren't we..LOL! Actually some Luther Vandross goes a long way too.

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post #633 of 2507 Old 04-22-2005, 06:03 PM
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Hi guys,

First of all, to miltimj.... I have an extra fmod 50, if you're still in need. Contact me at martyteboe@yahoo.com, and we'll work it out.

Now for my questions, if you please.

I hooked up my 4 Aura Pros in series to a Sony amp set for 2 ch. When I first installed the shakers, I drilled them directly onto the vertical plywood frames, running front-to-back, near the very bottom. These framing pieces bear most of the weight of the sofas. The results were less than spectacular, but I could feel the effect.
I had them that way for a day, then decided to try one sofa a different way. On one sofa, I removed the shakers and firmly zip-tied them to the zigzag-type wire springs directly beneath the coushins. The effect was a profound improvement, and one I can live with. It's adequate. However, given what I've read here, I feel I must be doing something wrong. I thought that I'd get an effect that I'd have a bit more control over. As it is, I'm cranked all the way up, with zero head room.

Was my first set up just done poorly? Maybe too tightly fastened? Wrong part of the sofa? Or maybe I should make some sort of brace-to-brace type of bridge, like I see so much of here?

I guess my basic question is one for you engineers.... Does the movement generated by the shakers transfer better when connected to a hard surface, or one like the setup I've described (assuming you can decipher my meaning)?


As always, I appreciate any help you guys can offer.
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post #634 of 2507 Old 04-22-2005, 06:50 PM
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Interesting...You should most definitely have a better effect on the wood I believe.I would ask is the amp adequate but it doesn't take alot to get these going.I'd check my wiring.You shouldn't have to crank them to get a good effect..

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post #635 of 2507 Old 04-22-2005, 07:23 PM
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Interesting...You should most definitely have a better effect on the wood I believe.I would ask is the amp adequate but it doesn't take alot to get these going.I'd check my wiring.You shouldn't have to crank them to get a good effect..



Hey Brickie,

That is exactly what I first thought. The amp is a Sony STR-K750P (or, that black one that comes with the Sony HTiB that is sold everywhere, even Toys R Us) rated at "5 x 100w". I know that on these low end Sonys, the true rating would probably be around 60w per channel, but even that should give me enough juice, right?

I'm not expecting a simulated earthquake from these shakers, either. I'm familiar with other applications (video arcade, theme park rides, etc) and have a pretty good idea of how these should feel.

I have to think that it's something in the way I had them first mounted. What I'm going to do is this, and please do tell me if you've got a better idea....

Mount the shakers on a 12x12 piece of 3/4 plywood. Secure that piece of plywood to two 2x4's, which in turn would be fastened to the braces within the sofa itself.

Do you think that'd be better, or should I just stick with what I've got? It seems to me that adding wood to the whole set up would only deaden the effect I had in the first set up. I'm just thinking here, but wouldn't it be best to secure the shakers to a nice piece of iron, which would then be fastened to the couch frame?

Again, I'm pleased with the setup as it is. I'm just surprised that I don't have a little bit of play here.

marty
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post #636 of 2507 Old 04-22-2005, 08:59 PM
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Hey Marty,

I've got my four standard auras connected to a very old Pioneer 2 x 90W and they shake plenty hard at about 60% power. I have them mounted directly to the wood frame... two to the middle frame (one high, one low), and one each on the ends (high). My guess is there's some kind of buffer between the wood frame of your couch and the actual cushions. My couch is an all in one (no cushions).

The pros require more power so that may be an issue, but you'd think they'd also output equal or better than the standards given the same power.

I agree with your assessment that more wood will deaden the sound, but if there's no part of the frame directly contacting the cushions, you may need to build something similar to what others here have.

PS - You have an email

-Tim

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post #637 of 2507 Old 04-22-2005, 09:00 PM
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Hmm maybe check your wire's... I got the cheap ones and they shake pretty good.. I just have a cheap jvc 100w/channel and I can crank it full and dang those puppies shake.. I usually only need it around 30 - 40% volume though to get a good kick..

I have them right on the frame of the couch.. I don't know about adding more wood since you have it already on the frame... Maybe loosen them or make sure they are seated fully on wood.

All I used was a piece of plywood to give a nice flat mounting surface and used drywall screws to fasten it.. It's lasted 2 movies rumbling pretty hard so far.. maybe one day it will break those weak screws but for now the nice tight fit does the job.
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post #638 of 2507 Old 04-22-2005, 11:46 PM
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Quote:


I agree with your assessment that more wood will deaden the sound, but if there's no part of the frame directly contacting the cushions, you may need to build something similar to what others here have.


I checked, rechecked, double rechecked, and checked again the wiring. It's sound as a pound.

The shakers are shakin', but the movement wasn't being transferred to the seats they way I had them mounted at first.

I don't really know how to describe this, but it looks as though the only contact the cushion makes with the frame is at the topmost part under the armrests, under the knees, and at the top of the backs. Maybe that's standard, but it looks like the seats themselves are sort of "suspended".
It's a well-made sofa set, but not terribly high-end. Maybe I'll try and post some pics, if you guys would be so kind to help out. My camera is only 2.0MP, though, so they won't be the greatest resolution.

Maybe I just need more shakers, and more power...

Seriously, it could be this amp. I know it's a piece of crap, really, and that is probably the real issue.

I'm going to try the first remedy I posted, i.e., a wood "bridge" to which the shakers will be mounted. I still think some type of metal brace or bracket would be better, though. I'll let you know how that works.

marty
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post #639 of 2507 Old 04-23-2005, 08:37 AM
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Marty, it's almost certainly the actual transfer of kinetic energy from the shakers to the cushions... you should mount a board as you're talking about, underneath the cushions.

A great example is Deja-Vue's, and he has some pictures of his HT... scroll to the bottom half for how he mounted the shakers in his sectional couch.

http://www.itprofessionals.tv/system.htm

-Tim

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post #640 of 2507 Old 04-23-2005, 10:01 AM
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Quote:


Marty, it's almost certainly the actual transfer of kinetic energy from the shakers to the cushions... you should mount a board as you're talking about, underneath the cushions.



Yeah, Tim....I'm certain of it, now. Looking at those photos, and the others just like it, I have to assume this is the case. So I've got a little work to do.

Thanks bud.


Marty
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post #641 of 2507 Old 04-24-2005, 03:10 PM
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Ive got an old yamaha v-1105 85 watts per chanel receiver can i power 8 aura pro's with it ? how would i wire it?
Thanks in advance.
T-maxx

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post #642 of 2507 Old 04-24-2005, 07:52 PM
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Marty, it's almost certainly the actual transfer of kinetic energy from the shakers to the cushions... you should mount a board as you're talking about, underneath the cushions.




Just a final follow up....

I made the wooden braces out of poplar, trying to copy Dejavu's design as closely as possible. Liquid Nails and all. I got fantastic fit in the spaces underneath my sofas. So close I had to use a hammer to get a couple to fit in the right places.

I secured the Auras to the braces, wired them up, popped in Master and Commander, and......severe disappointment. I'm thinking to myself (and swearing out loud) "What am I doing wrong????" It worked better attached to the springs!

I turned the loveseat over, one last time. I loosened up the screws on the Auras, and......now I get it. They were far to tight. The comparison is pretty amazing, really. Attached to the springs, I got a little wiggling sensation under my butt. Now, done properly, the whole sofa and loveseat rock with the LFE. In concert with the sub, it's a pretty immersive sensory experience.

The trick, as I see it, is to loosen the screws attaching the shakers to the wood just to the poing to where the slightest bit more the the left and they'd be moveable. It's a pretty precise adjustment, really.

Thank to everyone who helped me out.

Rock on,

Marty
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post #643 of 2507 Old 04-24-2005, 08:38 PM
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That's great to hear, Marty! Very cool... will be even better (more realistic) when we install the FMODs...

T-Maxx, your best option is probably to hook up 4 to each stereo channel, as two pair of series speakers then hook them in parallel.

So:
Each channel: two in series + two in series (hooked in parallel)

Your old receiver should be able to handle it, but you make need to crank it up quite a bit for eight of them. I hope you have quite a few pieces of furniture to hook them up to, because that is a lot of shakin'!

-Tim

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post #644 of 2507 Old 04-25-2005, 03:09 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by miltimj
will be even better (more realistic) when we install the FMODs...

Which FMODs do you recommend?

Skip
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post #645 of 2507 Old 04-25-2005, 07:53 AM
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Most have gone with 50Hz the low pass FMOD to focus the shakers on almost all "sound effect" LFE instead of sound track music, etc, that may be apparent around 70-80Hz.

To be clear, I haven't actually intalled one, but I've set my receiver to crossover at 60Hz which was a signficant improvement (less artificial) over 80Hz. The FMODs come in 50Hz & 70Hz (among others). My first paragraph above are based on many AVSers' thoughts and experiences, mostly found in this thread.

-Tim

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post #646 of 2507 Old 04-25-2005, 09:34 AM
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I for one roll off everything above 80 Hz, and quite often dampen everything above 50 Hz when using DTS program material.

To quote James T. Kirk;
"I'm laughing at the superior intellect"
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post #647 of 2507 Old 04-25-2005, 12:10 PM
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I've got 8 berkline 090's on order, on the back row I want to try 4 under the riser and on the front 1 per chair.

Thanks for the help!

T-Maxx
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post #648 of 2507 Old 04-25-2005, 06:52 PM
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Just an FYI. YMMV. I have six Lane Hollywood recliners, three on a riser in the back and three on the floor. I put a shaker under each chair in the riser and a shaker IN each recliner on the floor. For my money, the shakers in the chairs are much more satisfying than the ones in the risers. I know that MM says different and it may be because he is a much more experienced installer, but I wish all mine were in the bottoms of the recliners.

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post #649 of 2507 Old 04-25-2005, 07:47 PM
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I'll try it both ways, Is your riser suspended on rubber isolators

T-Maxx
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post #650 of 2507 Old 04-26-2005, 07:11 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by miltimj
Most have gone with 50Hz the low pass FMOD to focus the shakers on almost all "sound effect" LFE instead of sound track music, etc, that may be apparent around 70-80Hz.

To be clear, I haven't actually intalled one, but I've set my receiver to crossover at 60Hz which was a signficant improvement (less artificial) over 80Hz. The FMODs come in 50Hz & 70Hz (among others). My first paragraph above are based on many AVSers' thoughts and experiences, mostly found in this thread.

I keep mine at 50Hz and find it much better than 80Hz.
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post #651 of 2507 Old 04-26-2005, 10:32 AM
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O.k. I must be doing the math wrong but 2 4ohm shakers in series will give you 8 ohms. 2 8 ohm loads in parallel will take the load back to 4 ohms. Won't this be to much for the yamaha?
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post #652 of 2507 Old 04-26-2005, 11:32 AM
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Quote:


Originally posted by Mntneer
I keep mine at 50Hz and find it much better than 80Hz.

Mntneer or anyone...

Forgive my "ignoramace" on FMODs.

Are you using something like this ? The descriptions are the same, I would assume I would want the first below if I had no electronic capability built into the receiver.

FMOD CROSSOVER PAIR 50 Hz LOW PASS

or this:

FMOD CROSSOVER PAIR 50 Hz HIGH PASS

or going the electronic route like miltimj?

Thanks,

Bud


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post #653 of 2507 Old 04-26-2005, 12:14 PM
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Bud, the two links you posted are exact opposites.. you want the low pass so the only frequencies you receive are below that point (though it's not a hard cutoff, but heavily sloping).

The problem with using your receiver is if you have a sub in addition to the shakers (highly recommended by the way), you can't send a different signal from one to the other... it'd be one thing if the sub was supposed to be lower than the shakers because then you could use the crossover on the sub, but unfortunately it's the opposite.

So... I will use the receiver's processor/built-in crossover to effectively be an 80Hz low pass, split to my shaker amp (receiver) and sub, and use an FMOD to further limit the frequencies reproduced by the shakers.

Shep, good point about the impedance... I guess it really depends on the receiver, but there's no easy way to it other than have a 16 amp load or have them be unbalanced. I guess if they were standard auras you could put the groups of four in series for an 8 ohm load (or just two sets of four-in-series would be easier) into one channel, but that's going to be too much power requirement for 8 pros! An option would be finding a cheap mono amp, or bridging a 2-channel amp and using that. If I just had an old receiver laying around like T-Maxx I'd see if it could handle the 4 ohms...

-Tim

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post #654 of 2507 Old 04-26-2005, 12:40 PM
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Tim,

Glad my math is correct on that one as currently I'm using 2 buttkickers and a buttkicker amp on my riser but for fun I was going to pull out 10 aura shakers I yanked from interactor vests and use them on my bottom row sectional that is not on the riser. I couldn't for the life of me figure out a easy way to use 8 to get 2x8ohms for an older receiver (that I know won't do 4ohms). I wonder if it would work if I did a 4 with a 4 ohm load (as you mentioned) and then added one more in series to give me a 8 ohm load, and then the same for the other side. Any thoughts?
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post #655 of 2507 Old 04-26-2005, 12:45 PM
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You'll have most of the power going to two of the ten shakers in that case, though... I would stick with putting two 16 ohm sets on it if it can't handle 4 ohms, and see how that works... worst case is it just won't shake as much as you'll have to crank the volume. Either drop it to 4 total or go to something like 12 so you can get 6 ohms on each channel.

Joe L. makes some good points about this earlier in this thread, e.g. post 139.

-Tim

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post #656 of 2507 Old 04-26-2005, 04:30 PM
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Is your riser suspended on rubber isolators

No, it is sitting on nice thick berber carpet.

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post #657 of 2507 Old 04-27-2005, 09:54 AM
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Is your riser suspended on rubber isolators?

This is something that I've wondered about...

It makes sense to me that I'd be maximizing the effect of the shakers by putting the sofas on some type of rubber risers, rather than have them resting on the carpet. Is that true?

(edit)
I guess I should clarify. I'm thinking about some sort of coaster-size deal to place under each leg of the sofa. I suppose I could improvise something. Just wondering if there's a product like this...


If so, has anyone a recommendation on what to get?

marty
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post #658 of 2507 Old 04-27-2005, 12:03 PM
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Marty, how do you have them mounted? That's typically the limiting factor with shakers.. if they're decently mounted to the frame of the furniture somehow, you shouldn't have a problem getting all the shaking you can handle...

-Tim

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post #659 of 2507 Old 04-27-2005, 06:25 PM
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Marty, how do you have them mounted? That's typically the limiting factor with shakers.. if they're decently mounted to the frame of the furniture somehow, you shouldn't have a problem getting all the shaking you can handle...


Well, just as stated in the other posts...i.e., as much like DejaVu's design as possible. I think I came pretty close.

Also, it's not that I'm not shaking enough, just now, it's that my amp is still cranked, and I've got no headroom still.

I was just wondering if there's a type of furniture feet coasters some of you guys use.

Not a big deal, really.

mt
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post #660 of 2507 Old 04-27-2005, 08:59 PM
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Oh yeah, sorry... got the people & threads mixed up...

Interesting that a 5x100W isn't enough... I don't use coasters, just the mounting on the frame is enough for me.

-Tim

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