Shakers - Simple/Cheap Hookup - Visual Guide - Page 31 - AVS Forum
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post #901 of 2531 Old 09-16-2005, 10:59 AM
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Wow, great thread. I am headed to PE to buy some shakers and had a quick question on the riser installation...

I will be buying 6 regular Aura's and mounting 3 in my back riser but was wondering how to mount the other 3 to my front couch. I can't make a riser for my front couch because I have fairly low ceilings. So I was wondering if I should just bolt them dirctly to the couch or buy a sheet of 3/4" MDF, lay that on my carpeted floor, screw the Aura's down to it, then put my couch back on top of the MDF? I would also carpet the 12 or 16 inches of MDF sticking out in front of the couch where your feet would be. Would a single sheet of MDF work sort of like a very slim riser? The Aura's would be bolted down to it and the couch and your feet would be on it.

Also, I'm assuming 3 Aura's wired in series for 12ohms would work fine on any receiver capable of driving 8ohms? What exactly does feeding 12ohms into a 8ohm receiver do? Does it cut the amount of power going to the shakers or something? Any disadvantage? Are the shakers less responsive?

Any info appreciated!
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post #902 of 2531 Old 09-16-2005, 11:15 AM
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UnknownShadow,

The single layer of MDF most likely would not work very well since it is not perfectly rigid, and thus would dampen the effect of the shakers (especially since the standard Auras are not very powerful). If you could stiffen it up with some framing, perhaps above the MDF (like an inverted platform) where that framing is hidden inside the cavity of the bottom of the couch, that may help.

Also, it's imperative that you'd isolate the MDF from the ground with rubber isolators, probably one under each leg of the couch so the MDF doesn't break. You'd probably need them spread across the foot rest portion as well, since there wouldn't be any bracing there -- you might not even be able to have a footrest, as it'd probably be too weak on its own.

Wired in series as 12 ohms is the way to go, or have two sets of three in parallel, then those sets wired in series for 6 ohms. Most receivers/amps should be able to handle 6 ohms no problem. You are correct that there will just be less power going to the shakers with higher resistance (ohms) -- due to circuitry/power handling in amps being limited, they have minimum resistances that they can handle, which should be indicated in the owner's manual. Ideal is to have maximum power available to the shakers, and adjust gain down to a comfortable level.
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post #903 of 2531 Old 09-16-2005, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miltimj View Post

UnknownShadow,

The single layer of MDF most likely would not work very well since it is not perfectly rigid, and thus would dampen the effect of the shakers (especially since the standard Auras are not very powerful).

Ok, then I'll probably scratch that idea and mount them directly to the front sofa. As for the regular Aura's not being very powerful, do you think I'd get away with only 2 for the riser and 2 for the sofa? Or should I do 3 each. Or even 4 each. I don't want overkill, just a little shaking action to go with the bass.
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post #904 of 2531 Old 09-16-2005, 11:58 AM
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The more, the better, since it will spread out the shaking and seem less artificial. Depending on the size of the riser, I personally would go with more than 4 (and isolate it from the floor). Maybe one in between each joist or so.
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post #905 of 2531 Old 09-16-2005, 03:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miltimj View Post

The more, the better, since it will spread out the shaking and seem less artificial. Depending on the size of the riser, I personally would go with more than 4 (and isolate it from the floor). Maybe one in between each joist or so.

What exactly do you mean by isolating it from the floor? My riser is about 7' x 5' x 16". It is framed out with 2x4 and finished top/sides/front with 3/4 "good one side" plywood. The back is left open for storage. It is fully carpeted and weighs a freakin' ton! So the bottom of my riser has carpet on it and it sits on my carpeted floor. Is that considered isolated from the floor?

I think I'm just gonna order 6 and experiment with 3 in the front sofa and 3 in the rear riser. I'm sure there are different ways to mount them to reduce localization rather than plastering the entire riser with them?

Oh yeah, check my gallery for a few pics.
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post #906 of 2531 Old 09-16-2005, 04:30 PM
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By isolating it, I mean use rubber isolators such as this:
[IMG=http://www.karman.com/images27/pic.gif]Rubber isolator[/IMG]

(Just a rough idea of one, it wouldn't necessarily have to be of that type)

Those lift the riser off the floor. Putting it on two layers of carpet will still send a lot of the transducing effect through the carpet layers and lose the effect. The more isolated it can be, the more efficient it is. The more efficient it is, the less shakers and power you have to send it, in general.

I couldn't tell from your gallery, but what do you mean by having the back completely open? Did you only attach the joists on one end (the front of the riser)? There's no way I'd leave it like that.. it's not structurally sound just sitting there, much less if it's intentionally being shaken. Forget about the storage space and make it solid. (You won't be able to isolate the riser from the floor without two ends being supported anyway). Also, you don't need carpet on the bottom of the riser, and in fact it's just getting in the way.

Since you have quite a bit of this already done, I can imagine you're hesitant to change things around. But if you actually want it to be done "right" (or at least much closer to it, as I am certainly not infallible), it'd be worth it to make the above changes. I hope that helps..
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post #907 of 2531 Old 09-17-2005, 06:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miltimj View Post

By isolating it, I mean use rubber isolators such as this:
[IMG=http://www.karman.com/images27/pic.gif]Rubber isolator[/IMG]

(Just a rough idea of one, it wouldn't necessarily have to be of that type)

Those lift the riser off the floor. Putting it on two layers of carpet will still send a lot of the transducing effect through the carpet layers and lose the effect. The more isolated it can be, the more efficient it is. The more efficient it is, the less shakers and power you have to send it, in general.

I couldn't tell from your gallery, but what do you mean by having the back completely open? Did you only attach the joists on one end (the front of the riser)? There's no way I'd leave it like that.. it's not structurally sound just sitting there, much less if it's intentionally being shaken. Forget about the storage space and make it solid. (You won't be able to isolate the riser from the floor without two ends being supported anyway). Also, you don't need carpet on the bottom of the riser, and in fact it's just getting in the way.

Since you have quite a bit of this already done, I can imagine you're hesitant to change things around. But if you actually want it to be done "right" (or at least much closer to it, as I am certainly not infallible), it'd be worth it to make the above changes. I hope that helps..

Oh don't worry, it's structurally sound. I'm just not explaining myself properly. Picture it this way... I basically framed out four "walls" with 2x4. The "walls" are 16" high and about 7' long with studs every 16 inches. Just like a regular wall except only 16" high. I then placed these "walls" in a row about 20 inches apart to form the shape of my riser. I then screwed them together with 1" strapping to hold it all together while I screwed the 3/4" plywood to it.

I left the bottom of the riser open so that only the bottom of the 2x4 walls would rest on my carpet. But I then decided to staple thin 3" strips of carpet to the bottom of the 2x4's so it would make it easier to slide the riser around if I needed to. Otherwise I would have bare 2x4 scraping on my carpet when I tried to push it around. Mush easier to slide with "carpet on carpet".

The 3/4 plywood is screwed to the top, front and sides. I left the back and bottom open. I'll try to post another couple of pics to my gallery now.

In any case, thanks for all the info. Bottom line is that I'll just have to order in a few Aura's and start playing to see how I like it.
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post #908 of 2531 Old 09-17-2005, 11:27 AM
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Ah, well that makes a bit more sense now. That's better than having the entire bottom being carpet and absorbing it. It's probably borderline how well it will work, but the good news is you can mount the shakers and try it, and if it's not up to your liking, then add the rubber isolators later.
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post #909 of 2531 Old 09-17-2005, 12:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miltimj View Post

Ah, well that makes a bit more sense now. That's better than having the entire bottom being carpet and absorbing it. It's probably borderline how well it will work, but the good news is you can mount the shakers and try it, and if it's not up to your liking, then add the rubber isolators later.

HOLY CRAP! I just received my new HSU VTF3-MKII subwoofer a few days ago and I've been smiling like a kid in a candy store ever since. But I've been listening to it from my main seating position which is the front couch.

Today I went back and flopped down in my back couch (the one on the riser) to see what the bass sounded like back there and I couldn't believe how much tactile feel I was getting from the VTF3!!! It was like the entire riser was on hydraulics or something. It was like the entire room was shaking and falling apart. WOW!!!

This is sounding better and better. If the VTF3 can cause this much rumbling from about 15 feet away then I can't wait to screw a few shakers to the bottom of this thing. And I'll definitely be finding a way to build a small riser for the front sofa as well. Rumblin' risers is the way to go!!!
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post #910 of 2531 Old 09-19-2005, 10:36 AM
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Parts Express has the Aura pros for $39 each. Is this a low price, or the normal going rate?
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post #911 of 2531 Old 09-19-2005, 12:11 PM
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For pros, that's pretty much the going rate. Standards are $28/pair and that's been the going rate as well.
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post #912 of 2531 Old 09-22-2005, 08:25 PM
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I have a question, when splitting the LFE signal from the subwoofer out to the powered subwoofer and to the amp that powers the shakers, does this weaken the signal going to the subwoofer. I have my main receiver set to +10 for the LFE, will the signal be reduced or not at all?

Thanks
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post #913 of 2531 Old 09-24-2005, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miltimj View Post

By isolating it, I mean use rubber isolators such as this:
[IMG=http://www.karman.com/images27/pic.gif]Rubber isolator[/IMG]

Where are people buying these? Is this an affordable source? Since there's no pricing on that site, only an RFQ, I'm assuming they are geared more towards volume purchases (?). I have a sofa & loveseat, and what I'd like to do is simply replace the stock feet with these.

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post #914 of 2531 Old 09-24-2005, 09:28 AM
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Partsexpress sells isolators.

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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post #915 of 2531 Old 09-24-2005, 11:02 AM
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Yep, that's a much better source -- I didn't think to search there.. just searched google images for one so he could get an idea of what I was talking about.
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post #916 of 2531 Old 09-27-2005, 01:35 PM
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hmm... just got my regular shakers from PartsExpress and I thought there were wires already installed on the regular shakers with those strange connectors at the end? My shakers have NO wires on them at all. First thing I have to do is remove the screws from all of them and solder some speaker wire to them!? What a pain!

Is that normal? My shakers were also in a plain white box, I thought the box was red? They also look like they were slapped together by someone in grade 3. Hard looking devices!

Hopefully the experience is worth it. Oh yeah, I also got nailed $61CDN at the border for bringing 6 of them into Canada. Gotta love customs.
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post #917 of 2531 Old 09-27-2005, 01:42 PM
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Sounds like customs swapped out the real shakers for some imposters

Seriously though, you shouldn't have to do any soldering since the shakers are *supposed* to have wire leads already connected. I would call PartsExpress and see if you got a bad batch or something.

My shakers came in a retail-looking box with the product photo on the outside. Same regular version as yours, not the Pro version.

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post #918 of 2531 Old 09-27-2005, 02:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvgillow View Post

Sounds like customs swapped out the real shakers for some imposters

Seriously though, you shouldn't have to do any soldering since the shakers are *supposed* to have wire leads already connected. I would call PartsExpress and see if you got a bad batch or something.

My shakers came in a retail-looking box with the product photo on the outside. Same regular version as yours, not the Pro version.

When you say "wire leads" do you mean about 6 or 8 inches of wire already connected to each shaker? Mine only have a round hole in the side and what looks like 2 pins that you have to connect wire to. I guess you could just crimp or twist the wire into the pins but you definitely have to take them apart for that.

Do all regular Aura's have to be taken apart to install the speaker wire? This sucks.
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post #919 of 2531 Old 09-27-2005, 02:11 PM
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No, you got some definite B-stock on those. All standard Auras should have two wires about 6-8" long (as you said) already connected, and you just mount the shaker using the four screws, and attach your speaker wire to the existing wires. They also shouldn't look like a 3rd grader put them together -- mine look very retail and professional (just like the picture on PE.com), and also come in a retail box, as Jeremy mentioned.

I'd contact PE about it ASAP and find out what happened.
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post #920 of 2531 Old 09-27-2005, 02:12 PM
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My regular Parts Express shakers, which shipped a month or two ago, are just as Jeremey describes: about six inches of wire already connected, coming out of the hole, with spade connectors attached at the ends. There were even the matching female spade connectors thrown in the box for me to attach to my wire. Also got a retail looking box. You should not have to take them apart to attach the wiring.

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post #921 of 2531 Old 09-27-2005, 02:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darin View Post

My regular Parts Express shakers, which shipped a month or two ago, are just as Jeremey describes: about six inches of wire already connected, coming out of the hole, with spade connectors attached at the ends. There were even the matching female spade connectors thrown in the box for me to attach to my wire. Also got a retail looking box. You should not have to take them apart to attach the wiring.

Well I am NOT impressed with PartsExpress. I just called and they said this was a "buyout" item and they do ship in white boxes (not retail) and you have to take them apart to solder the wires.

I assume this is like what you guys got...
http://paulinfamily.dyndns.org:6080/~marc/aura.htm

Well here is what I got...
http://www.mi.mun.ca/~bball/

I will never again order anything from PartsExpress. That was my first and last time. I don't like being deceived.
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post #922 of 2531 Old 09-27-2005, 02:55 PM
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That's incredibly lame. I purchased mine about 9 months ago and it was still referred to as a buyout back then. Maybe they've finally just switched over and gotten rid of the last decent stock and are selling these now. It'd be interesting to see if anyone else in the future mentions receiving them in this condition as well.
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post #923 of 2531 Old 09-27-2005, 03:02 PM
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Yes Shadow, the ones I have (and many others as it sounds like) are the retail box versions.

I was planning on ordering some more but I won't now that they have switched to the low-quality versions. I'm surprised at their attitude considering that they are usually accomodating about returns and such. It sucks even more that you had to pay customs fees on something that wasn't what you expected to get.

Jeremy Gillow
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post #924 of 2531 Old 09-27-2005, 10:25 PM
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I'm now using a Audiosource Amp One to power my shakers. Is it better to Y out from the reciever to the sub and the amp..... or a single line out to the amp and then out from the amp to the sub? Thanks.
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post #925 of 2531 Old 09-28-2005, 01:58 AM
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Here is your mystery solved.

The "Standard" Shakers as discribed that Parts Express seem to be selling are indeed "Buyouts" that came from a OEM account that was using them as Actuators for Video Game accessories..., both a Video Chair and Wearable Vest. For some time, the Jobber that has been trying to get rid of them has had them listed for sale in Bulk Quantities on Ebay, Ubid, and other Web outlests. Right down to the "White" Box they shipped in because of the lack of need for packaging. at least that Gent discribed them as such, even including a photo of the unit and White Box.

I have my finger on the pulse of the supply of ALL Auras on sale everywhere, since I's a be a you'sin 'em at the rate of about 50-60 a month. Mostly the "Pros" ya know, but this was to good a deal not to "jump on".

Obviously, Parts Express, having sold many "Standards" in the past and seeing the increased demand, jumped on a deal too. Too bad.

I just purchased an entire Factory Sealed box of 16 Standards, specifically for a new installation, from a EBay seller. They all came in Factory Sealed packaging, with attached Leads and the accompanying Hardware. But I guess they do not count, for the seller (...a 5-Star rated Ebayer) has had them for awhile. The original Packing slip was still on the outside of the Aura Factory Shipping carton, dated October, 1999.

I got the 16 for $190.00. That's $11.88 each.

Yeah, I know. I got lucky. Next lowest price I could find Online was $38.00 Pr.

Below is the installation they went into. 8 in a 14' x 6' Platform. 8 "in De Floor" The total wiring configuration was;

2 ea. Paralled to 2 Ohms, then two pairs of two Seriesed to 4 Ohms (5 Ohms nominal) There are 4 Channels as described, each "Pair" of Channels to be driven by NAD Stereo "Main" Amp @ 100 watts x 2

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post #926 of 2531 Old 09-28-2005, 02:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by birdshead View Post

I'm now using a Audiosource Amp One to power my shakers. Is it better to Y out from the reciever to the sub and the amp..... or a single line out to the amp and then out from the amp to the sub? Thanks.

I've found that by using the "In-Out" on a Audio Source, you can experiance a "Hum" when the output level on the Audio Source unit is set at any position other than 12 o'clock. Strange stuff, and probably due to a "potentiometer" issue that is feeding back into the pre-amp stage. I've since stopped using AS Amps in that manner for exactly for that reason.

Best to Y-Outm and by doinmg so, you make each LFE system a seperate entity.

In Fact, on a recent system using TWO 1000 watt Outlaw Floor Standing Subs (KAAAA_THUUUMMMPPP!) and 16 Aura Pros in a "Platform / Floor" configuration, I used a Y into a Y into a Y with no problems.

But's that's me.

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post #927 of 2531 Old 09-28-2005, 05:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Here is your mystery solved.

The "Standard" Shakers as discribed that Parts Express seem to be selling are indeed "Buyouts" that came from a OEM account that was using them as Actuators for Video Game accessories..., both a Video Chair and Wearable Vest. For some time, the Jobber that has been trying to get rid of them has had them listed for sale in Bulk Quantities on Ebay, Ubid, and other Web outlests. Right down to the "White" Box they shipped in because of the lack of need for packaging. at least that Gent discribed them as such, even including a photo of the unit and White Box.

Thanks for the info MM. PartsExpress assured me that taking them apart and soldering wire to them will NOT void the warranty and they still carry full warranty. But I am not impressed. Even if they work fine I'm still annoyed that they haven't updated their website saying you have to take them apart and solder/crimp the wire.

Luckily I have the tools and moderate skills to do this but for many people they will need to go out and buy a soldering iron and accessories and/or crimping tools. This is very deceiving by PartsExpress.

In any case, I spent a couple of hours last night taking apart my 6 Aura's, stripping wire, soldering etc and they are now ready to be installed. I just have to find a cheap amp to power them. I'm also out of town next week so it may be a while before I get a chance to test these.
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post #928 of 2531 Old 09-28-2005, 10:17 AM
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Here's the response from PartsExpress...

- - -

"So very sorry you did not get the product you expected. Let me give you some background on that item. We bought it as a surplus buyout. Our customers LOVE buyouts and we shop for them regularly. Typically, once a buyout runs out of stock, we discontinue the item since we don't have a regular source/supplier for it. The Aura Bass Shakers was an especially huge hit. We searched for another buyout and found one. We latest buyout did not have the wires so we re-shot the photograph for # 299-027 as you can see on our site.

Please know that you may return your purchase for a merchandise refund, within 45 days from the date of your invoice."

- - -

I still think they should post a big *UPDATE* notice of some type directly on the page for that item. Not just re-shoot the photo. Most people will still be expecting the retail boxed version.

In any case, I am not returning mine and losing the $61CDN I paid for tax/customs at the border. I will give them a shot. I will post my results once I have mine setup. The speaker wire is soldered to them but I don't have an amp yet to try them out.

By the time I buy a cheap amp this little experiment will have cost me about $300CDN. That's for 6 regular shakers, a 2-pack of fmods and an amp. Don't be too fast to say this is a "cheap" no-brainer upgrade.
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post #929 of 2531 Old 09-28-2005, 06:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MississippiMan View Post

Best to Y-Outm and by doinmg so, you make each LFE system a seperate entity.
.

Thanks, MM. Does Y'ing the signal out lessen it's impact? Or is the reciever still sending it's full signal to both entities?

Also, a tech from Audiosource told me told me that if using the in/out on the amp (and passing through to the sub) that it would still be better to Y the signal out to the amp. That way it would use both the L and R inputs on the amp. He said while some disagree with him he feels that it would be more beneficial. Anyone have any thoughts on this? Thanks.
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post #930 of 2531 Old 09-30-2005, 09:08 PM
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Turned out my receiver had two 'sub outs' so I ran one to the sub and one to the amp.What a difference! I tested it out on U-571 (Chapter 15) and it was unbelievable! Then for the hell of it, I ran one line out from my receiver to the amp and passed it through out of my amp to the sub and it ended up being just a little bit better! Next I'm going to try what the Audiosource tech said and Y INTO the amp's L & R and see if I notice a difference. But passing it through seems to be the better way to go....and I didn't get any "hum" like MM got when he did it.
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