Shakers - Simple/Cheap Hookup - Visual Guide - Page 34 - AVS Forum
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Old 11-07-2005, 04:05 AM
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I mounted my Aura shakers on my platforms this past weekend and they are being carpeted today. I Have my Coaster theater seats on the lower platform and standard theater chairs on the upper platform. My question is padding?? How much if any on the platforms??

Right now with the Coaster chairs directly on the plywood it feels great. I don't want to diminish the effect. Since the theater style chairs are mounted directly to the plywood I figure no problem there accept where you put your feet.

Do I need any padding on the platform?

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Old 11-07-2005, 04:53 AM
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I am running 2 sets of 9 aura pros. I have them paralled/Series together to achieve approx 5 ohms per channel. I am powering these with an audiosource amp 300 rated at 235 watts per channel at 4 ohms.


Can I assume each channel now has the capacity to handle 450 watts?

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Old 11-07-2005, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomr View Post

I am running 2 sets of 9 aura pros. I have them paralled/Series together to achieve approx 5 ohms per channel.

I can see how you wire three parallel strings of three in series to get a total of 4 ohms (three in series=12 ohms, three 12 ohm strings in parallel=4 ohms), or... to connect in series three sets of three in parallel for a load of 4 ohms (three shakers in parallel=1.3333 ohms, three of the 1.3333 ohms sets in series=4 ohms), but can't visualize how you would wire them to shake equally and end up with 5 ohms.

Can you elaborate on how the 9 are being wired to get approx 5 ohms?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomr View Post

I am powering these with an audiosource amp 300 rated at 235 watts per channel at 4 ohms. Can I assume each channel now has the capacity to handle 450 watts?

If the power is being divided equally to each of the shakers and they each can handle 50 watts, then you are correct. Each set of 9 shakers can handle 450 watts. You could use a bigger amplifier and get more shaking.

Joe L.
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Old 11-07-2005, 07:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. L. View Post

I can see how you wire three parallel strings of three in series to get a total of 4 ohms (three in series=12 ohms, three 12 ohm strings in parallel=4 ohms), or... to connect in series three sets of three in parallel for a load of 4 ohms (three shakers in parallel=1.3333 ohms, three of the 1.3333 ohms sets in series=4 ohms), but can't visualize how you would wire them to shake equally and end up with 5 ohms.

Can you elaborate on how the 9 are being wired to get approx 5 ohms?

If the power is being divided equally to each of the shakers and they each can handle 50 watts, then you are correct. Each set of 9 shakers can handle 450 watts. You could use a bigger amplifier and get more shaking.

Joe L.


When I checked each individual speaker with my ohm meter it read 4.9. So when they were all connected it read 4.9 ((4.9 / 3) * 3). So yes, I really only have 4 ohm, using the rated ohm of 4.0 per speaker.

In hindsight, I should have ohmed them to 8 so I could have bridged my amp to 470 watts mono and picked up another AS amp 300 to maximize the shakers.

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Old 11-07-2005, 08:03 AM
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Personally, I don't think you need another amp. They really don't need that much power. Currently I'm feeding a total of 12 shakers with a 105wpc (x 2) amp, and I'm bottoming out the shakers long before I run out of amp power. I'm equalizing mine to focus their output into the infrasonic range, which of course is going to cause me to be excursion limited. But still, I can't imagine needing THAT much power. You should be fine as your are.

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Old 11-07-2005, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darin View Post

Personally, I don't think you need another amp. They really don't need that much power. Currently I'm feeding a total of 12 shakers with a 105wpc (x 2) amp, and I'm bottoming out the shakers long before I run out of amp power. I'm equalizing mine to focus their output into the infrasonic range, which of course is going to cause me to be excursion limited. But still, I can't imagine needing THAT much power. You should be fine as your are.

It "feels" good now, I prefer not to purchase another amp at this time. I can't imagine what another 270 watts could do.

Any thoughts on the carpet padding for the risers?

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Old 11-07-2005, 09:24 AM
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I don't think padding will make a HUGE difference... obviously if you have theater style seats that mount directly to the plywood underneath, it won't make any difference. But even if you have furniture that would sit on top of the padding, most furniture concentrates the weight load into small areas that mostly compress the carpeting and padding down pretty far, so the isolation wouldn't be all that huge.

Even so, if it were me, I still probably wouldn't use padding. It's just not a high enough traffic area to really need it, and you could argue that padding could make the footing slightly less secure for people making the steps.

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Old 11-07-2005, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tomr View Post

When I checked each individual speaker with my ohm meter it read 4.9. So when they were all connected it read 4.9 ((4.9 / 3) * 3). So yes, I really only have 4 ohm, using the rated ohm of 4.0 per speaker

tomr,
Interesting...
Usually, the DC resistance of a loudspeaker/driver is lower than the AC impedance, not higher. (And the "ohms" rating for speakers/shakers is the average AC impedance over its operating frequency range, not the DC resistance)

In any case, it could be the shaker voicecoil is of higher resistance than advertised(and probably higher impedance too), or the test-leads of your meter added their own resistance, or the meter calibration itself is slightly off and is the cause of my confusion. It sure sounds to me like you know what you are doing with the wiring and basic parallel/series calculations.

Before you put hundreds of watts into your shakers I just wanted to verify they all got an equal amount of the power and that you didn't smoke one or two by overdriving them while under-driving the others. From what you have said, you are fine and they will all shake equally.

Happy shaking. Before you buy a more powerful amp check it out at your current power level. Many of us are using much less power and have plenty enough shaking. You might find the current amplifier is fine.

Joe L.
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Old 11-07-2005, 12:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. L. View Post

tomr,
Interesting...
Usually, the DC resistance of a loudspeaker/driver is lower than the AC impedance, not higher. (And the "ohms" rating for speakers/shakers is the average AC impedance over its operating frequency range, not the DC resistance)

In any case, it could be the shaker voicecoil is of higher resistance than advertised(and probably higher impedance too), or the test-leads of your meter added their own resistance, or the meter calibration itself is slightly off and is the cause of my confusion. It sure sounds to me like you know what you are doing with the wiring and basic parallel/series calculations.

Before you put hundreds of watts into your shakers I just wanted to verify they all got an equal amount of the power and that you didn't smoke one or two by overdriving them while under-driving the others. From what you have said, you are fine and they will all shake equally.

Happy shaking. Before you buy a more powerful amp check it out at your current power level. Many of us are using much less power and have plenty enough shaking. You might find the current amplifier is fine.

Joe L.

I ran a test last night playing U571. "shook me all night long" came to mind! I was leary of cranking the amp to max until I verified I indeed would not over power the Aura's. I am very satisfied. Think I'll crank it up a notch tonight.

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Old 11-10-2005, 05:44 AM
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I just purchased another Buttkicker amp and two more LFE units. I will be installing a second shaker unit to my recliner section of the couch. Does anyone else have experience in installing multiple LFE's on a single chair or recliner? With sound, doubling the speakers does not double the sound level. But what happens with tactile transducers? Is the shaking displacement doubled? Increased by 3 decibels?

I guess I will find out....
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Old 11-10-2005, 06:39 AM
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You are installing multiple buttkickers in the same couch???? Good lord, are you a glutton for punishment? Seriously, if 1 buttkicker isn't doing it for you then you've got some sort of issue with the mounting.

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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Old 11-10-2005, 07:08 AM
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a question for you buttkiker jocks,
we have a family room set up which we reconfigure for home theater.
we slide several moveable recliners into position before starting the movie.
i want to install aura pros on the recliners, but don't want the wiring permanately in place.
is there a set up with a jack on each recliner and a mating plug that i could attach to the power feed that would plug into the recliner jacks when they are in position.
i figure that there's probably something available for pa speakers etc.
can someone point me to the appropriate jack/plug at parts express?
thanks,
eric
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Old 11-10-2005, 08:56 AM
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humbland:

If you are willing to tip the recliners over to reach the Aura Pros before each movie you can just terminate your speaker wires with a couple banana plugs and plug them directly into the shakers:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...umber=091-1165

If you want a receptacle accessible without tipping the recliners you would need to somehow mount a binding post connection on the outside of the chair:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=090-475

If you didn't want to permanently modify the recliners you could probably velcro a binding post pair just inside the bottom edge of the chair with sufficient wire leads to allow you to un-velco it and plug in the banana plugs from the amplifier. Not as elegant of a solution but you wouldn't have to tip the chairs up each time and you could keep the lead from dragging around when you move the recliners.

Jeremy Gillow
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Old 11-10-2005, 09:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by humbland View Post

a question for you buttkiker jocks,
we have a family room set up which we reconfigure for home theater.
we slide several moveable recliners into position before starting the movie.
i want to install aura pros on the recliners, but don't want the wiring permanately in place.
is there a set up with a jack on each recliner and a mating plug that i could attach to the power feed that would plug into the recliner jacks when they are in position.
i figure that there's probably something available for pa speakers etc.
can someone point me to the appropriate jack/plug at parts express?
thanks,
eric

Maybe over-kill.

http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage....ctGroup_ID=127
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage....oup_ID=87&SO=2
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...number=248-146
http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage....up_ID=138&SO=2

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Need this for HT
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Old 11-10-2005, 11:17 AM
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Buttkickers have the wireless kit...

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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Old 11-10-2005, 03:01 PM
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thanks to eveyone,
eric
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Old 11-10-2005, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madpoet View Post

Buttkickers have the wireless kit...

I haven't looked at those, but it can't be truely wireless (unless you have a receiver, amp, shaker, and batteries isntealled in each recliner! ). Doesn't seem like it'd be any more convienient to have to plug in a chair mounted amp each time than it would be to plug in speaker level power.

If it were me, I'd just wire the shakers in each chair to some plain old lamp cord (or speaker wire) with a standard two prong electrical plug, then wire the shaker amp's speaker outputs to sockets. Or, if you're afraid someone would come along and either plug the chair into the wall, or plug the vacuum into your amp, instead use 1/4" phono plugs.

But I've always been kind of cheap.

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Old 11-10-2005, 03:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darin View Post

Or, if you're afraid someone would come along and either plug the chair into the wall, or plug the vacuum into your amp, instead use 1/4" phono plugs.

Yes I bet 60Hz AC @ 120Vrms would get your chairs shaking quite a bit. Lessee at 4ohm nominal load that would be... 30 amps? Wiring two in series would at least keep you <= the common 15amp circuit limit.

Jeremy Gillow
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Old 11-10-2005, 03:55 PM
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Originally Posted by madpoet View Post

You are installing multiple buttkickers in the same couch???? Good lord, are you a glutton for punishment? Seriously, if 1 buttkicker isn't doing it for you then you've got some sort of issue with the mounting.

No the mounting is fine. The LFE's are bolted securly to a 3/4" thick piece of oak (about 5" wide) that is glued and screwed to the bottom of the recliner frame. I like lotsa shaking and I have noticed the single unit is "bottoming out" occasionally. The factory said this would not hurt the units, but I keep the level tame nevertheless.

The couch will have 3 units total in the end.
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Old 11-10-2005, 04:03 PM
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First of all, I posted this in a separate thread before realizing that, perhaps, it should go here...

I just ordered a pair of Buttkicker LFE's along w/ the Buttkicker amp to supplement my IB sub. I'm planning on mounting them to the floor joists in the crawl space below my HT room.

My question is whether there is any reason (or any way, for that matter) to equalize the Buttkickers or should I just "plug and play"? I have an extra channel on my BFD, but I have no idea how you would equalize tactiles since, seemingly, an SPL meter would do one no good in measurements.

Also, I've got my sub crossover at 80 Hz. I've read 55-60 Hz as a nice crossover point for the BK's. Sound about right? I'm hoping the BK amp has a built in crossover so i don't have to add an in-line low pass filter.

Second, I'm trying to decide how to mount the two BK's. Could you please vote on "A", "B", or "None of the Above" in the attached sketch. Dashed lines represent floor joists, circles represent Buttkickers. Furniture shown, also. I'm thinking option A, but I want to make sure.

Thanks,
Kurt
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Old 11-10-2005, 05:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurt12 View Post

Second, I'm trying to decide how to mount the two BK's. Could you please vote on "A", "B", or "None of the Above" in the attached sketch. Dashed lines represent floor joists, circles represent Buttkickers. Furniture shown, also. I'm thinking option A, but I want to make sure.

Yes go with A, dont do B. If mounting the LFE units to a floor structure you want them located in the center of the span where the maximum deflection is. The closer they are to a vertical support (a column or a wall) the more energy that will be wasted. I would recommend locating one inside each couch. Each unit only has a 3.5 pound mass moving insde - so you are asking 7 pounds of inertial mass to move a floor. You will get vibration but not shaking. With a single LFE unit, I get about a 1/4" of lateral movement (front to back) in my recliner at about 12 hertz (The LFE stops shaking below 5 Hz) using the 40-0 sweep on the Bass Mekanik DVD).
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Old 11-10-2005, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kurt12 View Post

Also, I've got my sub crossover at 80 Hz. I've read 55-60 Hz as a nice crossover point for the BK's. Sound about right?

Personally, I would cross over lower than that, especially if you're going to have them tied to your floor. Your floor could actually become a second IB sub (the floor being one huge driver), and having it operate in an audible range in conjunction with your current sub could just muddy up the bass. I'm using my second channel of the BFD to equalize my shakers (and also filter out some higher frequencies). I just do it by feel... I play test tones, and adjust as necessary to try to get the feel relatively even throughout the range I want them operating in.

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Old 11-10-2005, 09:05 PM
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It almost seems like the Buttkicker literature recommends floor joist mounting as the preferred method. Not the case?

Darin, what would you recommend as a crossover point? I asked some questions prior to purchasing the BK's to make sure these would enhance my HT and everyone seemed to think it would. My main concern, however, was detracting from my IB, which sounds great as it is, so I need to set this up right.

Thanks for the help.
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Old 11-11-2005, 05:07 AM
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I'm sure it will enhance your HT, but I think there's a lot of personal preference in how they are applied. I prefer to have them restricted to ONLY frequencies that *I* think should be felt as shaking. I have mine filtered such that they start to roll off somewhere in the mid 20s, and above 30hz, they roll off quickly. By the mid 30s, they are gone. Others will prefer to feel the impact over a much broader range. Attaching them to an object in your room, like a sofa or chair, isn't really going to produce much audible sound. But attaching it to your floor, your floor could create a fair amount of audible sound due to the fact that the back wave will be isolated. And chances are, your floor isn't going to be as well behaved as a driver as your subs are.

I'm not saying that floor mounting is a bad idea... I have 16 shakers sitting in the corner waiting for me to go down in the crawl space and attach to my floor. After putting some in my sofa & loveseat, I decided I wanted the effect all over. I'm just saying that I think floor mounting can make the crossover point a little more critical, due to the chance of it being more audible than furniture mounting.

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Old 11-11-2005, 06:01 AM
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Gotcha. Well, I have to route the wires thru the crawl space whether they go on the joists or in the couches, so it wouldn't be a huge deal if I mounted them, then decided to move them. I'll just have to play w/ it, I guess.

Your crossover theory makes sense. My sub goes pretty deep and the main reason I got the Buttkickers was to cover the range from 5-20 Hz more effectively, so your 20-30 number sounds like it might be the ticket. Again, something to play with, but that's half the fun.
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Old 11-11-2005, 06:33 AM
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The one thing you don't want is it shaking when people talk . Honestly, find the sweet spot for your tastes. It just takes a little playing around.

dshmel, I can't even imagine the amount of shaking 3 units in a couch would produce. I thought I liked the tactile effect! You're heads and shoulders above me man

Someday maybe I'll actually WATCH my projector...
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Old 11-11-2005, 06:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by madpoet View Post

I can't even imagine the amount of shaking 3 units in a couch would produce.

That sounds like something that should be experienced privately.

My dual Rythmik Servo sub project (actually quad now, need to update page)
HDM format neutral thanks to the pricing wars of the '07 xmas shopping season :)
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Old 11-11-2005, 12:20 PM
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Just an FYI --

I talked to Buttkicker's tech support (that sounds kind of funny) and they recommended mounting to the floor joists for the most realistic effect. Obviously, it's still a matter of preference, but I thought I'd pass that along.

I also asked about crossover points and he said that 90% of users leave the filters off and let the BK's run parallel to the sub. I'm not sure I like this idea, though, as shaking up to 80 Hz seems a bit much. Easy enough to screw around w/, but that's the manufacturer's $.02.
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Old 11-11-2005, 12:30 PM
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I have read both shaker threads...and I need my basic Aura's to shake more when I have the main receiver volume at lower levels. They are great when watching a movie at theater levels, but I have a child sleeping in the next room most of the time and have to keep the volume down. I want to feel the rumble. I think I understand my set-up issues, but could use some input. I have three Coaster seats with one shaker mounted to 3/4" MDF and bolted to the frame under each one. They are wired in series for 12 ohm load. My main receiver is a Denon 3805. I am splitting the sub-out (X-over at 80Hz), with one line going to my sub's amp, the other going to an old receiver (TEAC AG-V1020 bought off e-bay) that drives the shakers. I believe the TEAC is 100W/Ch, but I don't know for certain and can not find the specs on-line. It shows on the back of the receiver that is should be able to handle 4 to 16 ohms and there is a switch for over or under 8 Ohms. I am only using the right channel for now. I have to turn the volume up over 3/4 on the shaker receiver and have the Denon volume up pretty high to get good shaking. Once they really shake, it's awesome, but again the overall speaker volume is too loud. I want to get the most I can out of this old receiver before spending the money to get something with more power, if ultimately that is the solution.

Would the shakers effectively see "more power" if I wire 2 in series for 8 ohms on one channel and wire the 3rd shaker to the other channel at 4 ohms. I should be able to use the balance to even out the shaking. I'm going to try this but would like some expert opinions.

Maybe I should use 1/2" board to mount the shakers on and then to the frame? Maybe the frame just can't vibrate enough without these things cranked. Should I loosen the mounting of the shaker on the board? I have them fairly tight. With that black pad on the shakers, it was hard to know how tight to make them. I'm also sitting on a concrete slab under the carpet so there is no help from the floor. Do you think the signal from the Denon is just weak? I have no problems with the sub amp driving the sub.

Jeff
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Old 11-11-2005, 01:00 PM
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They would see more power that way, but you would have to do a heck of a lot of gain adjustment to bring them all into sync. If your sending 100W thru one channel to an 8 ohm load that's being split between two shakers, you're down to 50W each, whereas the 4 ohm load would be seeing 200W if the receiver's 100W rating is at 8 ohms (I assume it is). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but that's the way I figure it. At the price of the Aura's, I'd buy one more from PE, wire two in series to each of two channels for 100W to two 8 ohm loads. I'm sure you can find room for one more, right?

As far as tightness of installation, the tighter the better. Loosening screws in any piece of the equation gives your system "slop" to transfer the vibrations to, rather than the furniture you want it in. Would you rather have the shaker ride up and down the screws or transfer it's vibration right to your seating?

Question for the others... could he wire the left and right channels out separately from the receiver and solder/couple them together for an effective 200W load to his current configuration? Seems to me you want to make use of both those channels, however you may do it, if you feel you're currently lacking power.
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