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post #1171 of 2528 Old 07-12-2006, 01:26 PM
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Olappa,

Those amps would work great for that application. You can get an FMOD inline RCA crossover. Search for "FMOD" at partsexpress.com. Somewhere around 50 or 70Hz low pass is what you want. That means that low bass frequencies above that point begin to be "blocked" (gradual fade out). Too low and you won't feel much shaking.. too high and it will seem awkward when James Earl Jones's voice can "shake the floor". A crossover fades out the volume above or below a given point, and a preamp feeds a "low level" signal (not amplified, so you can't directly hook speakers up to it) to an amplifier, which boosts the signal so you can connect speakers to it. Receivers are a combination of both.
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post #1172 of 2528 Old 07-12-2006, 01:35 PM
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lvis,

6 regular auras would be more than enough for a sofa. I have 3 in mine and that's plenty. The standards are also quite a bit cheaper than the pros. If you're going to mount it to a riser (recommended), I'd go with pros though.

There are plenty of examples of wiring diagrams in this thread. 3 in series would be 12 ohms. Another 3 in series and a combination together in parallel is 6 ohms.
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post #1173 of 2528 Old 07-12-2006, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miltimj View Post

Olappa,

Those amps would work great for that application. You can get an FMOD inline RCA crossover. Search for "FMOD" at partsexpress.com. Somewhere around 50 or 70Hz low pass is what you want. That means that low bass frequencies above that point begin to be "blocked" (gradual fade out). Too low and you won't feel much shaking.. too high and it will seem awkward when James Earl Jones's voice can "shake the floor". A crossover fades out the volume above or below a given point, and a preamp feeds a "low level" signal (not amplified, so you can't directly hook speakers up to it) to an amplifier, which boosts the signal so you can connect speakers to it. Receivers are a combination of both.


Thanks for the reply....I finally perused this thread last night and "discovered" the F-mod.

Is there any other way to modulate crossover on my transducers externally (like I would my rels), and not rely on my recievers crossover? With more control than the F-mod (smaller increments, wider range)? I like to adjust things till they feel "just right".
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post #1174 of 2528 Old 07-12-2006, 02:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Olappa View Post

Thanks for the reply....I finally perused this thread last night and "discovered" the F-mod.

Is there any other way to modulate crossover on my transducers externally (like I would my rels), and not rely on my recievers crossover? With more control than the F-mod (smaller increments, wider range)? I like to adjust things till they feel "just right".

Something like the Behringer Feedback Destroyer Pro (BFD) can do just that. It's also typically used for equalizing the LFE/sub channel due to the often unavoidable acoustical issues in basically every room. Low frequencies are especially susceptible due to their long wavelength. The BFD is overkill for this task (a single crossover), but it's highly adjustable. It may make more sense to split the sub output to go to a sub and shakers, and use a plate amp with variable crossover on it. It won't give you different crossover types (e.g. 6/12/18/24dB rolloff), but it will let you finetune the point it crosses over.
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post #1175 of 2528 Old 07-12-2006, 05:10 PM
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So you're basically suggesting a plate amp with crossover control?


Thanks for all your help so far BTW.
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post #1176 of 2528 Old 07-12-2006, 05:28 PM
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Hi,

My plan is to use an old receiver as an amp with a split from the headphone jack on my Denon 5803 which creates DolbyHeadpnone DSP.

I'm hoping to hear a 5.0 from the HPs and get the .1 from a channel (probably the center) for the effect.

I have no desire to use it in place of my sub under normal (not latenite) conditions.

The other thing to decide is where to install it on a Lazyboy recliner and if one will be sufficent as it comes in pairs.

Peter M.

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post #1177 of 2528 Old 07-12-2006, 05:37 PM
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As a possible alternative to the Fmod,

The Nady CX-22SW stereo crossover would let you have low-pass adjustment from ~250 Hz down to 50 Hz for a pretty cheap price. Slope is -12 db. Only the 50 - 80 Hz range would really be useful and you might decide you want something that goes lower than 50 Hz for cutoff.

You would only be using one channel but no problem there. The high-pass (subsonic) filter is defeatable so that way you wouldn't lose the stuff below 30 Hz.

Having a fixed frequency Fmod isn't a bad thing though. Crossover for shakers is usually a set-and-forget thing to personal taste. However, I have heard of some people that set the crossover lower during music than they do for movies. Mine are set at 80 Hz along with the subwoofer and I haven't been inclined to purchase a lower frequency Fmod.

Jeremy Gillow
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post #1178 of 2528 Old 07-13-2006, 11:39 AM
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hmmm interesting
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post #1179 of 2528 Old 07-13-2006, 12:15 PM
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Yes, Olappa, that's what I'm suggesting. Jeremy has a great suggestion as well. It depends whether you already have an amp to power them with as to which option may work better for you.

80Hz was a bit high for me... If I had a variable crossover it'd probably be around 60Hz, actually. For music I don't want any shaking, so I just turn the amp (receiver right now) off.
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post #1180 of 2528 Old 07-13-2006, 04:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miltimj View Post

Yes, Olappa, that's what I'm suggesting. Jeremy has a great suggestion as well. It depends whether you already have an amp to power them with as to which option may work better for you.

80Hz was a bit high for me... If I had a variable crossover it'd probably be around 60Hz, actually. For music I don't want any shaking, so I just turn the amp (receiver right now) off.



Thanks for the advice. This forum has been a great help, and I have learned a lot over the last few days.

At this point, everything is pointing towards this amp, the Dayton SA240 from partsexpress, linked by forum member Johnla. Its a pretty good match for a Clark synthesis Gold or platinum transducer in terms of power and price. And it has an adjustable crossover between 40-180 hz - enough to fine tune the transducers to my tastes. The final deciding factor for me was the lack of a fan. I don't have any fans in my HT, and I didn't want to start now.
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post #1181 of 2528 Old 07-14-2006, 08:41 AM
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If you look back a couple pages, you'll see a pic of my first try at mounting the Shakers to my Recliner and couch. Well, it was worth a shot, but didn't really work out. I'd say 75% of the shaking takes place in the back of the seat as opposed to the bottom.

So I'm now trying to figure out alternatives. The easiest also appears to be the most obvious to me now. The seats all ultimately connect to a metal frame that is the sole contact with the floor. The frame run the perimeter of each seat. What I'm thinking of doing is simply taking a piece of plywood the entire size of each frame, and screwing it into the metal frame. Then I'd place the shaker on top. Is this what most people actually do, or am I missing something? My only concern is that I might not get as much tactile response with the shaker between the couch and the hard floor. If that makes sense.

Jeff
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post #1182 of 2528 Old 07-14-2006, 11:58 AM
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There are many who have mounted plywood across the bottom, and then mounted the shakers to them, with good results. I want to say somewhere around page 10-ish.. (sorry, don't have the time to search right now)
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post #1183 of 2528 Old 07-15-2006, 05:23 PM
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Hey Tim -

I think I see the installs you are refering to. They are slightly different than what I'm thinking of trying. Basically, they seem to attach flush with the frame of the seat. Enough so that the shakers are actually facing down and have enough clearence. For my install, the seat would literally be sitting on top of the plywood. I'd attach it to the bottom of the metal frame.

Anyway, its probably the same result, so I'll just give it a whirl. I'll post some new pics after I'm done to hopefully help others.

Thanks
Jeff
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post #1184 of 2528 Old 07-17-2006, 06:57 PM
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Why is there little mention of the butt shakers? Are the Aura shakers that much better?
Bradley
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post #1185 of 2528 Old 07-17-2006, 07:06 PM
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affeking,

Check my signature line and I have some pictures of my shakers mounted if it helps you out.

Husker Nation is strong!

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post #1186 of 2528 Old 07-22-2006, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleycox View Post

Why is there little mention of the butt shakers? Are the Aura shakers that much better?
Bradley

Aura shakers are more frequently discussed because they are cheaper than Buttkickers.

I think most people would agree that Buttkickers are better than Auras, on a per-unit basis.

However, opinions will be split when you consider Auras vs Buttkickers on a per-dollar basis (i.e. which offers the better value for money).

/FP

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post #1187 of 2528 Old 07-22-2006, 10:38 PM
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ButtKickers, when properly mounted onto substantial material, can produce 'realistic Bass shudder and thump. Mounted to seating they produce a Bass enema that is decidedly NOT realistic. That some actually find it stimulating is no surprise. It's a sensitive area prone to such reactions.

But the real issue is money. marketing it with a cheap ass amp that effectually costs a bundle, and works only to power an overpriced device is all that gives it an edge over the Clark Absolute Transducer, a truly well designed device that I also find deplorably overpriced. and they are too big, and mounting is enefectual for many applications.

Auras have no real Cosmically significant advantage excepting that whenever you can dissipate tactile force more evenly by using "cost effective" multiples that are driving at less intense levels individually, but by the weight of sheer numbers are more efficiently "shaking" a larges area of a specific mass instead of the energy being extremely focused, your gonna get a more realistic effect that resembles the intended special effect, instead of some obscene Troll with a 20 lb sledge whose hiding under your chair trying to give you a cheap thrill.

Still, it is all about what you know, and experience. ButtKickers go out the door installed by the Factory under Berklines everyday, and they are hot sellers.

Seems to be a lot of willing Perverts out there sitting back, getting happily goosed. But I'll say this, anyone who has tried equally designed systems, power wise, always chooses the "Tactiles' to the BKs. It's obvious I'm no fan of 'seating based' tactile effects, but I do realize that for some, it's that or nothing at all. In those cases, I'm glad they have options. So is their Proctologist too, I'm sure.

I prefer 16 Aura Pros arrayed in the Flooring/Platforms, and being driven by ample, high quality power. I get 'em for less than $40.00 ea. and at that price, 16 of 'em cost less than 3 BKs, and can drive the flooring of an entire room to spectacular levels. What I've yet to try is the various filters or such that many now swear by. I need to review this thread to glean that info, for top notch, realistic performance, no matter what the product your using, it what it's all about.

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post #1188 of 2528 Old 07-28-2006, 02:43 PM
 
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i have 2 couches running with 3 shakers each. each couch is the left and right channels of the A outputs. it is rare that i have people sitting on both couches at the same time. to prevent wasted shaking time when i have nobody sitting on one couch, should i turn the balance all the way to the used couch/channel or hook one couch on A and one on B and toggle them on/off as used? which method will i get a better shake/performance out of my amp?

i've decided to not shake an unused couch do to having a shaker die on me today now i have to pay for a replacement of a shaker that rarely shook anybody. i guess i learned the hard way. any info you could give me is much appreciated!!
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post #1189 of 2528 Old 07-29-2006, 12:43 AM
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Hey Guys.... On an impulse buy (as usual) I just ordered 2 Buttkickers lfe, 2 couch kits and an amp. I have a sectional couch which is basically 2 love seats connected by a center piece. Sorry if I missed it but I've read through this thread and couldn't find the answers...

Is 2 Buttkickers enough?

Where is the best place to mount them??? Using couch kit under the leg or installing them under the couch??? (cant use floor joist.... its a basement)

Can these things damage furniture???

Their website says to wire in parallel... Thats when I send out a separate wire to each BK and tie-in at the amp?????

Im really looking forward to these things... They always seemed kind of gimmicky until I started to really look into them.. Although I've never experienced them, they seem like they will add to my HT experience.
Thanks for any info...
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post #1190 of 2528 Old 08-08-2006, 11:59 AM
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new convert in the works here, does anyone have an extra 50 or 70 fmod they would be willing to part with for a reasonable price? Also, how big of difference is there between the pros and the nonpro auras?
Thanks!
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post #1191 of 2528 Old 08-15-2006, 11:42 PM
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If they have ohms connecting them in series would change the ohms. Putting 5 on one channel would be 40 ohms if they are 8 ohms. I think something would blow. I would think that is the problem with the guy that has them on a recliner. If you can connect one to left channel and one to right the ohms would be lower and that always means more power. If you only have one channel connect it parell and that will improve the power. What is so great about these shakers. Please explain.
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post #1192 of 2528 Old 08-16-2006, 02:17 AM
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Yes...., they are very "Ohm-y". And if one but takes the time to study them carefully, and learn something about the effect they produce and how they can do so optimally, few items can add more appeal to a Home Theater for less expenditure. That's what makes them "great'.

Aura "Pros" & "Standards" both have nominal impedances of 4 Ohms. This rating can drop below 3 Ohms when frequencies below 40 Hz are encountered.

I still don't think anybody who knew anything whatsoever about Audio or "Ohm's Law" would ever series 5 in a row (20 Ohms).

ronnyd8719, higher impedances do not risk "Blowing up" amplifier outputs. The opposite is true. A higher Impedance means less output. However, the practice some employ of using odd numbers of Tactiles is misbegotten, even when based on economics. Why? Because at the price of Aura's, not to "equalize" your Impedance with 1another added unit makes no sense.

Issues arise when someone tries to do too much with just plain too little, be it power or one's budget. To do so with a lack of knowledge just as certain to be fraught with disappointment and failure.

Example: 6 Tactiles (3 in series x 2) presents 2 - 12 ohms loads.

But use 8 and : 8 Tactiles (4 per channel - 2 paralleled (2 Ohms) then series-ed with another 2) = 4 Ohms per channel x 2

Maximum output into minimum Impedance.

Read through this thread. Every misconception and/or lack of information you suffer from has the correct answer. Consider this thread "Tactiles 101" and to 'graduate' the course requires at least some homework.

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post #1193 of 2528 Old 08-29-2006, 06:07 PM
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Have a setup where I have installed 6 50W Pro Shakers in a platform and 1 in each of 2 seats. I have a dedicated amp for this 150W (8 ohm) and have the FMODs to deal with the frequency issue.

Heres the question L and Right Channels(speaker inputs) each to run 4 shakers, how are these wired to accomplish this? I read and read and just when I think I understand it another question arises from other users.

Any help would be appreciated. Snopro

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post #1194 of 2528 Old 08-29-2006, 06:25 PM
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Hi,

I HAve Aura BassShakers (not instaled yet) but mine are 4ohm.

Dn't know if yours are also 4ohm and if so how your amp would be ffcted.

Peter M.

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post #1195 of 2528 Old 08-30-2006, 01:36 AM
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If your amp can only handle 8ohm, then you'll need to run each channel all in series, so they're each 16ohms (unless your amp is bridgeable). Otherwise you can run a parallel/series combination to get back to 4ohms if your amp can handle that low of an impedance. It really all depends on the specs/capabilities of your amp, and ensuring that you have an even number of shakers.
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post #1196 of 2528 Old 08-30-2006, 10:03 AM
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Home Theater Platfor Setup

6' X 10' Solid Oak no Carpet on Cement Floor

Separate Amp - Extra Sonamp MKII to drive Shakers (60 watts per channel) 8ohm
- Line In is A L/R setup so a sinlge cable from a Y split from main receiver (Yamaha HTR5990) - How do I wire to amp with L/R inputs?

6 Pro Shakers in Platform - Platform is flat to cement floor no carpeting, but I have mounted it to floor not free standing. Shakers are suspended between joists. Should it not be mounted to floor but rather free standing?

Is 6 shakers enough?

Wiring? 3 to each of L R inputs on amp in parallel or series?

Any input would be appreciated.

Snopro
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post #1197 of 2528 Old 08-30-2006, 10:04 AM
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Additional Amp Info -

Output Power, Stereo Mode, RMS: 60 Watts per channel @ 8 ohms
100 Watts per channel @ 4 ohms.
Total Harmonic Distortion: 0.05% 20Hz-20kHz @8 ohms 0.09% 20Hz-20kHz @ 4ohms
IM Distortion (SMPTE 4:1) @ 8 ohms: 0.008% @ 1 watt - 0.01% @ 60 watts
Signal to Noise Ratio: -100dB below rated output (A-weighted)
Input Sensitivity: 0.625 volts for rated output
Input Impedence: 47k ohms, Min.
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post #1198 of 2528 Old 09-08-2006, 06:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shamus1099 View Post

Hey Guys.... On an impulse buy (as usual) I just ordered 2 Buttkickers lfe, 2 couch kits and an amp. I have a sectional couch which is basically 2 love seats connected by a center piece. Sorry if I missed it but I've read through this thread and couldn't find the answers...

Is 2 Buttkickers enough?

Where is the best place to mount them??? Using couch kit under the leg or installing them under the couch??? (cant use floor joist.... its a basement)

Can these things damage furniture???

Their website says to wire in parallel... Thats when I send out a separate wire to each BK and tie-in at the amp?????

Im really looking forward to these things... They always seemed kind of gimmicky until I started to really look into them.. Although I've never experienced them, they seem like they will add to my HT experience.
Thanks for any info...

I have 3 LFE units installed with 3 Buttkicker amps - one amp per LFE. I have one LFE unit on the outside (reclining) sections of a 3 sectional couch and one LFE on one section of a two section loveseat.

The middle section of the couch gets the shaking from the end sections. Your couch setup sounds like mine. If the sections recline (as mine do) then you will get more shaking effect as the reclining mechanism acts like a suspension system - allowing the sections to move without transferring energy into (or being dampened by) the floor below.

If installed securely, I would not worry about damage to furniture. I would make sure that all nuts and bolts are tightened down if you are installing on furniture that has any moving parts. The shaking may - over time - loosen any hardware.

Don't use the couch kit. Too much kinetic energy will be wasted. Mount directly to the furniture frame. You will be pleased with the effect.

One amp should drive 2 LFE's easily. I bought a total of 4 amps and 5 LFE's because I got them for pennies on the dollar. One amp and 2 LFE's are still boxed up. We are changing furniture so I want to wait.

Follow the wiring instructions from Buttkicker and you will be fine. Use 12 ga. wire MINIMUM - I suggest 10 ga., and keep the runs from the amps to the LFE's as short as possible. The amps take a lot of juice so make sure you have enough amperage in the outlets that you are plugging everything into.
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post #1199 of 2528 Old 09-08-2006, 10:13 AM
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Dshmel, Thanks for the reply. Ive had these things up and running for over a month now and love em. I ended up installing 2... one on each of the couches and the center piece gets the left overs of the vibrations. And I also ended up mounting them to the frame. I too have the recliners on the ends of the couch but installed the LFE on the center section of the three seat couch. Thanks again!!!
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post #1200 of 2528 Old 09-12-2006, 09:03 AM
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Attached is a diagram outlining my current setup. I have 2 Bash 300 amps each running 8 Buttkickers, the amp is 300 watt 4 ohm. 12 of these are in a raised platform and the other 4 are in the front seats.

Questions are:

What ohms are being delivered to amp in this setup? I have read and read and the brain is still confused.

If this is not setup for 4 ohm what would need to be changed?

I am at the final stages and before I screw everything down wanted to make sure I am setup correctly.

Thanks in advance.

Greg
LL
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