Shakers - Simple/Cheap Hookup - Visual Guide - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 2506 Old 07-13-2004, 03:47 PM
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Forgot about that one..May be better to run them in series off 1 channel of amp..then again I don't think they would be too demanding for a reciever. Try it and see how it works both ways.

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post #182 of 2506 Old 07-13-2004, 06:03 PM
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I am getting the smaller ones. I guess I will see when I get them, but I assume that these blade connections that you mention just get connected to regular speaker wire correct? The FMOD, when I order it, gets connected between the sub out Y connector and the old amp correct?

I will have to read through this thread again to get a better understanding of ohms. I need an ohms for dummies manual.
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post #183 of 2506 Old 07-13-2004, 07:39 PM
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You are correct once again..The regular ones won't take banannas.Also the fmod you got right.Ohms is very confusing at times..

2 8 ohms in series=16 ohms
2 8 ohms in parallel=4 ohms

2 4 ohms in series=8ohms
2 4 ohms in parallel=2 ohms

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post #184 of 2506 Old 07-15-2004, 06:40 AM
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The shakers should arrive today. I just want to double check before I hook these up. I understand it would be better to hook up 2 in series, which I eventually will, but I am only planning on hooking 1 up ininitially.

Brickie you said it should be ok to try it both ways. I just want to make sure that I am not going to damage anything if I hook up just 1 4ohm shaker to an 8ohm receiver?
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post #185 of 2506 Old 07-15-2004, 02:11 PM
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You'd damage the receiver before the shaker from my understanding..Most likely it would simply go into " protect mode". You'll be fine.I would just try series if that's the way you're going to end up.It does NOT take much to get these shaking!! So you won't be losing anything if that's what you're worried about.

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post #186 of 2506 Old 08-10-2004, 01:30 PM
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Thanks for posting all of your experiences guys! I'm going to be picking up a couple of pairs soon. I've got the Ohm stuff figured out but was wondering what gauge of speaker wire to use? Bigger is usually better but at what size would I start seeing diminishing returns on my investment? Thanks.
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post #187 of 2506 Old 08-10-2004, 01:43 PM
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14 gauge would be fine..Anything over this is overkill, unless you got some EXTREME runs.

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post #188 of 2506 Old 08-12-2004, 07:19 AM
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Thanks brickie. I'm really looking forward to adding this experience to my home theater. I'll probably do just what you did and not tell my wife. She's the type of person who is against new stuff until she experiences it first hand. At least I was right about the Tivo and X1!
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post #189 of 2506 Old 08-12-2004, 02:01 PM
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Post your results when you get them up and running!

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post #190 of 2506 Old 08-13-2004, 08:32 AM
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From reading most of these threads it seems that the general consensus is that the standard (non-pro) model has enough power to make most people happy. Am I reading this right? Personally I'm leaning towards getting the normal ones partially because of the smaller size (might make installation easier) and the cheaper price. Apart from having more kick to them and connectors instead of wires are there any other reasons why the pros might be better to use? I hadn't heard of heat being an issue.
It should make for an fun moment if I were to mute the volume and crank up the shaker amp while a cat is snoozing on the couch.
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post #191 of 2506 Old 08-13-2004, 02:05 PM
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Javaman, you really hit it dead on the head!The larger ones do have more power handling capabiltity,but I think you touched on that one.

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post #192 of 2506 Old 08-13-2004, 03:21 PM
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hmm, i think bigger is better, when it comes to Shakers.
(even though i have never felt the non-pro versions).
I figured, if i ever take my couch apart, it'll better be worth it.
I don't want to do it again.
The pro-versions only cost a few bucks more, and i am glad, i bought these.
I am very happy with the results.
just my 2 cents.
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post #193 of 2506 Old 08-13-2004, 11:46 PM
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I tend to like the "bigger is better" effec as well..Iv'e got 6 pros.

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post #194 of 2506 Old 08-17-2004, 01:44 PM
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I just got my 3 Palliser Connery's set up (w/built in shakers) & holy cow what a difference. They give you the impression of having prodigious amount of bass without cracking the drywall. Like any sub system that is too loud the effect seems artificial, but if dialed in properly they "sound" awesome!
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post #195 of 2506 Old 08-20-2004, 01:30 PM
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Well, I finally got them hooked up and man, I can't believe I didn't do this earlier! I'm only using one pair so far, wired in series to a old Technics receiver. I stopped using this receiver several years ago since several of the inputs were acting up. I just about had gotten to the point of frustration after trying 5 or 6 inputs when I realized I forgot to wire the last lead for one of the speakers! DOH. Anyways, once I finished terminating it it worked right away. So far I've only tested it with SW ep II, and the asteroid sequence was unreal. I've got my primary amp's crossover set to 80hz, but I think a Fmod would help out a bit in getting rid of some of the unnecessary vibe.
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post #196 of 2506 Old 08-20-2004, 01:37 PM
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Good job, and yes, the fmod should make a big difference.Also of course make sure the volume isn't too loud..It doesn't take much to get these shakers going at all!!

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post #197 of 2506 Old 08-20-2004, 02:16 PM
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Thanks! I probably wouldn't have done it had several of the AVS members never pioneered it and chatted their results up on this thread. In the near future I may pick up a 2 channel EQ, (They do work on line level stuff don't they?) raise the crossover output to both and EQ it down to roughly 80Hz for the sub to let me optionally feed a higher frequency to the shaker. (around 120 or so) for racing games. I've noticed that the effect is great for low revs, but cuts out very quickly when accelerating. Obviously I wouldn't be able to get the shake for high revs, but it would be neat to adjust the range a bit for just the shaker to smooth out the transition. Hitting rumble strips is definately a ride now!
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post #198 of 2506 Old 08-26-2004, 12:52 PM
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Wow. That was quite a thread to work through. A few things that I was looking for that I didn't see...

I noticed that most people are using an old receiver as an amp for these. I don't have an old receiver laying around and I don't want to buy an "old" receiver just for this. I do need need two channels for my setup, so a single plate amp won't work.

Would a Crown pro amp be over kill for these? Maybe the XLS 202?

I have 8 shakers and am going to run them four per channel. My theater seating is divided into four pretty equal couches, so I was going to mount two units in each couch. I wanted to put a toggle switch in each line so that I can turn off the shakers for a given couch if I wanted. I know that this will change the resistance on each channel, so I need an amp that can handle down to 4 ohms (when all four are going, it will be a 4 ohm load on each channel, two shakers will be an 8 ohm load)

They will be setup on each channel like this:

Channel 1
|_s_O_O_| O=shaker
|_s_O_O_| s=toggle switch

Anyway, I hadn't seen anyone post about putting toggle switches in, and I was also looking for amp recommendations for this kind of setup.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

Conrad
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post #199 of 2506 Old 08-26-2004, 02:20 PM
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Hey, Gamemaster.

I use this Subwoofer here in my Setup, and i must say, i am very happy with it. It comes with a remote-control, which makes adjustments fairly easy.
The use of a Fmod is highly recommended as well.
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post #200 of 2506 Old 08-26-2004, 02:40 PM
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Toggle switch is a great idea..Ans should work as long as you use a heavy duty one.As far as the XLS 202, way overkill for this project.Trust me, it doesn't take much to get these going at all..

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post #201 of 2506 Old 08-26-2004, 04:59 PM
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As far as the Crown amp, why not? I'm guessing with your Crown you'll have plenty of power to spare.

I use an Adcom GFA555II and haven't had any problems (2 pro's per channel).

Overkill maybe, but I wouldn't hesitate to use the Crown if you already have it and its not being used for anything else.

Even if you do torch the shakers (not that I think you will), they're cheap
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post #202 of 2506 Old 08-26-2004, 05:09 PM
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I would agree if you have it, or plan more down the road .. otherwise ,yes,it's overkill..But i'm not mad at you..as I FIRMLY believe in overkill!!

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post #203 of 2506 Old 08-30-2004, 09:26 AM
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Thanks for the replies.

The perfect amp would be a two channel amp, around 100W/channel @ 4 ohms (it will handle all four shakers at 4 ohms), and drop slightly to 75-80W at 8 ohms (two shakers).

I agree that the crown 202 is overkill, but I am looking for a solution here. I know that I could go get a "cheap" 200W stereo receiver, but I'm a little worried about the life of the receiver as most "cheap" consumer receivers aren't rated for 4 ohm work. I'd rather not want to waste the $100 bucks on something that is just going to bite it in six months because I overheated the power supply.

Plus, an extra receiver is kind of unattractive in the EQ rack, IMO. I agree that this is a minor concern, but I already have this setup in my family room down stairs (my old HT setup ) with my sub being powered by an old Sony receiver. I'd like something a bit more aesthetically pleasing for my dedicated HT.

Would I be wasting my money to get the crown? Would it work to have the crown power these and just keep the amp turned down (so I don't fry the shakers)? Is there another solution out there that I don't know of?


Conrad
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post #204 of 2506 Old 08-30-2004, 01:45 PM
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Conrad, I totally feel you. Your concerns are valid..The main reason most choose the reciver aside from price is for the volume control..I have a reciver but I didn't get a remote with it, so no volume control for me..Although not a big deal to me..You could most definitely do what you said as far as just keeping volume down, and would be a good idea if you plan on expanding later..

Brickie

Some do use those plate amps like you find on powered subs, but for the price point and power I like The Crowns.

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post #205 of 2506 Old 08-30-2004, 05:41 PM
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Okay, now I'm leaning towards getting a seperate power amp. Maybe the Onkyo M-282. This would look nice with my Onkyo TX-SR800 anyway. But I don't really want to drop $300 on it (or whatever it is retail). But they do look nice and they are rated for 6 ohm work and would probably handle 4 ohm light duty just fine.

Someone talk me out of this please.

That's a good point about the remote control advantage of using an "old" receiver. However, since I am using the toggle switches, I don't see much need for more control over the shaking. The amp will have a "volume" control anyway. It is something to think about though.

Thanks.

Conrad
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post #206 of 2506 Old 09-09-2004, 01:26 PM
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Ok because of this thread I just ordered 3 Pro's.

Now I need to find an Amp... I have no idea what Im looking for but like the few posts above I dont want another A/V reciever in the rack. Is there such thing as a Mono Amp? Maybe something for ~$100 bucks?

P.S. My CC hates this website. Although I'm doing my part in helping the economy
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post #207 of 2506 Old 09-10-2004, 02:41 PM
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If you have a place to put a plate amp, that would be a great option. They are single channel, would be in your price range, and would provide enough power to run your shakers. You'd just need to hide it somewhere, cause they are kind of ugly if they aren't mounted to something. Just make a small box to put it in and hide it under/behind something. I got my plate amps [the ones for my subs] from apexjr.com. The Jr version should work for you.

I'm in the same boat, I don't want another A/V receiver in my EQ rack. Yuck! But, I just cut into my amp budget a bit by buying an OTA HD receiver so now my amp choices are a bit limited.

Conrad
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post #208 of 2506 Old 09-12-2004, 05:17 PM
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After reading these two bass shaker threads you've got another convert. Amp #2 is set up and the bass shakers should arrive this Wednesday!

I've got a question that I don't believe was specifically covered yet ( or at least I couldn't find anything in this thread or the other "bass shakers" thread).

SETUP
Assuming the LFE signal is split - one line goes from my main receiver (HK AVR 7200) to my powered sub and the other line goes to my supplemental receiver (Sony STR-DE135) running the bass shakers.

QUESTION
My AVR 7200 has an internal variable crossover built in that I can set for my sub output. I've set this to 70HZ (<70Hz goes to my sub, >70Hz goes to Fr L/R speakers). But if I'm in Dolby Digital mode watching a movie is the internal sub crossover bypassed (i.e. the x-over setting has no effect on what frequencies go to the sub)?

For example, do all frequencies of Dolby Digital's discreet LFE channel go to the subwoofer no matter what internal crossover setting (inside amp), or does the crossover still send only signals below 70Hz to the LFE out?

HK's manual doesn't touch on this at all and I'm trying to decide if it is absolutely necessary to order a set of 70Hz fmods. Thanks for any help!

Oops, one more question. My Sony receiver running the bass shakers has an A channel and a B channel and is stable at 8 ohms. The manual says that A+B is an internal series connection (the receiver manual states "A+B(series)"). Using ohm's law does this mean that the receiver, when running A+B is only stable at 16 ohms (8 ohms + 8 ohms in series)? There's not 4/8 ohm switch on the back.

Thanks again!

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post #209 of 2506 Old 09-12-2004, 07:11 PM
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spillz564,

I have the same HK reciever with my LFE out split and fed to both my subwoofer and to the plate-amp that powers my shakers. I have not found any need to add any "fmods"

I would say give it a try without them. As you said, there is already a low pass filter on the LFE output of the receiver. Odds are it will do the trick. You can always add one later if you feel there is too much high-frequency signal fed to the shakers.

Many receivers put the A+B speakers in series to provide for an easier load. If the manual did not say anything about 4 ohm loads, the odds are it was not rated for 4 ohm use.... but... that does not mean you cannot use it.

From what I've experienced, the shaker amplifiers pretty much are loafing 95 percent of the time. It is a rare action sequence that will last any length of time at all. Therefore, you probably will not be stressing the amplifier power supply even if you connected a 4 ohm load where the manual only described 8 ohm speakers. Although there is some risk, If you are brave, try it. Just increase the volume till you get the desired shaking effect and don't crank it all the way up (you probably won't need to anyway)

If your amplifier experiences a meltdown, then it probably didn't have any protection circuitry and was not going to last long with anything less than a 8 ohm load... In that case, you have an excuse to get a better amplifier.

How many shakers will you be running?

Joe L.
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post #210 of 2506 Old 09-13-2004, 12:08 PM
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Joe,

Thanks for the reply. I'll give the internal crossover a shot on the HK 7200 and see what happens.

I got the sony (running the shakers) off of Ebay for $15 + $20 s+h so I'm not too concerned if something happens to it.

I started off just ordering two pro shakers and will probably wire them in series and connect to the L channel for now for an 8 ohm load on one couch. If these work well though I will probably add several sets more for other seating positions.

I was just trying to think ahead about the best way to hook up, for example, 8 separate shakers. I could do several parallel/series combinations as described previously in this thread and connect to only the L channel or both the L+R at around 8 ohms.

But I was also thinking, I could have 4 sets of 2-pro-shakers wired in series and connect each set to one of the four outputs (A channel L,R & B channel L,R). Theoretically this would mean all 4 sets of shakers would be delivering 8 ohm loads. But if the receiver A+B is wired in series, I was thinking that maybe the receiver would only "safely" accept 16 ohms (8 ohms A-ch + 8 ohms B-ch) when in A+B mode.

If I could wire in the 4 sets to 4 separate inputs on my Sony (bass shaker) receiver, I would theoretically have more control over the amount of shaking on each set.

Thanks for your help and your previous wiring & ohm's law explanations. It's been a while since I had EE classes in college :-) Plastics engineers don't use wiring too much!

-Brian

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