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post #2101 of 2529 Old 10-28-2011, 05:03 PM
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Thank you fitbrit! I am very lost, I bought all of this equipment and I don't think it is operating at it's maximum level. I have a Pioneer SC-35 and I just ran the MCACC setup and this is what it's showing me....

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post #2102 of 2529 Old 10-29-2011, 11:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K5/SS View Post

Thank you fitbrit! I am very lost, I bought all of this equipment and I don't think it is operating at it's maximum level. I have a Pioneer SC-35 and I just ran the MCACC setup and this is what it's showing me....

Your subwoofer's gain is too high if it is showing -12db after calibration. Ideally you would want it within +/-3db after you run MCACC.
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post #2103 of 2529 Old 10-29-2011, 06:20 PM
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That's strange. I only have the gain on both subs set at 50%. should I adjust the gain on the subs lower than 50%?

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post #2104 of 2529 Old 10-29-2011, 11:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K5/SS View Post

That's strange. I only have the gain on both subs set at 50%. should I adjust the gain on the subs lower than 50%?

Yes. Depending on the sub, it could be quite loud at even 50%. Mine are usually at 25-40%
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post #2105 of 2529 Old 11-07-2011, 06:42 PM
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Anyone have any suggestions for shakers that are not Buttkickers? I currently use the Buttkicker wireless system and while its awesome it rattles and clanks too much(from bottoming out)
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post #2106 of 2529 Old 11-21-2011, 06:42 PM
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right now i have 4 chairs with 1 base shaker in each one..2 chairs are connected in series going to the left speaker output of my old receiver and the other 2 are connected in series going to the right output...but i will be losing 1 chair so now i only have 3 chairs how do i hook these up?

3 in series?
or 2 in series going to the left output of my reciver and 1 connected by itself going to the right output? thanks
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post #2107 of 2529 Old 11-26-2011, 10:59 AM
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Just ordered 4 Aura pro's and a 240 watt plate amp from PE,the shakers and amp are special price right now.I'll be using all 4 in my couch,I've never experienced transducers before so I'm looking forward to it.
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post #2108 of 2529 Old 11-28-2011, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ufokillerz View Post

http://www.markertek.com/Audio-Equip...COM-9106.xhtml
i use these on my berklines
they work great, the ones from markertek are rubbery and soft, the ones i got from partsexpress, exact same feet, were hard and smelled bad. You might have some hard feet from partsexpress.

Thanks for this suggestion. I ordered these feet from Markertek immediately after your post but didn't have a chance to put them on until recently. These made a big difference. The original thin rubber mounts I had on made the shaking feel much worse (felt like a seat vibrator rather than the room shaking as it did originally without any additional feet). These make it feel close to original and the seats absolutely stick to the wood floor like glue unless you lift them up. The seats used to slide all over the place with just the stock plastic feet. I think they would feel even better if I could replace the stock plastic feet with the rubber feet rather than bolting them to the original feet, but I haven't been able to get the stock ones off the Palliser Pacifico seats.
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post #2109 of 2529 Old 11-29-2011, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raymondeast View Post

right now i have 4 chairs with 1 base shaker in each one..2 chairs are connected in series going to the left speaker output of my old receiver and the other 2 are connected in series going to the right output...but i will be losing 1 chair so now i only have 3 chairs how do i hook these up?

3 in series?
or 2 in series going to the left output of my reciver and 1 connected by itself going to the right output? thanks

can anyone help?
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post #2110 of 2529 Old 11-30-2011, 09:45 AM
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I would suggest doing what i did. I have 2 shakers in the middle seat
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post #2111 of 2529 Old 11-30-2011, 04:46 PM
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I agree on using 2 shakers to drive one chair. You could use the amp balance control to reduce the level to the chair with 2 shakers if it feels too strong.

Another solution if you don't want to have 2 shakers in 1 chair might be to wire a 4 ohm power resister in series with the single shaker to roughly match the side with 2 shakers. Some power is wasted in the resistor, but who cares.
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post #2112 of 2529 Old 12-06-2011, 06:43 AM
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Ok so I just laid out over a $1500 for 6 Buttkicker advance units, a behreinger EPX4000 amp and spent 2 weeks designing and bolting these things to my 6 recliners only to have the BIGGEST letdown ever last night...I couldnt get these things to work at all i switched stuff around for 3 hours and finally gave up!!!! I checked all the + and - connections everything looked fine.

Equipment:
Receiver Yamaha Aventage 3010
Berhinger EPX 4000
6 Buttkicker advance units connected in 2 series (2 rows of 3 recliners)


I have attached a diagram of my setup...(crude diagram)

Connections

Subwoofer 1 goes to a regular subwoofer

Ok so I connected the subwoofer 2 output of my Yamaha receiver into a Y-Splitter which then feeds 2 rca wires into the EPX4000 amp.

I then have 2 rows of 3 Buttkickers wired in series.

Each of these rows feeds 1 channel on the EPX4000 amp.


The setting on my receiver for the subwoofer 2 are in-phase and at 1.0 db, when I run a test tone setup everything runs fine to my regular subwoofer but my kickers dont do anything, i've adjusted the db from highest to lowest on both the receiver and amp, i dont know what to do next any ideas or help would be much appreciated.
LL
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post #2113 of 2529 Old 12-06-2011, 08:05 AM
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So I talked to a great guy (Andrew) at the Guitammer Co. He said that he is pretty sure that I just need a pre-amp. I guess the behringer EPX4000 input sensitivity is at ~1.2 volts being intended for musicians and most Home audio equip outputs at 200-300 milivolts. So I guess I need to bump up the power....ugh more $$$ If this doenst fix the issue I am gonna scream! LOL!
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post #2114 of 2529 Old 12-06-2011, 06:50 PM
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I have three shakers I salvaged from our old HT long ago. I used to use a secondary 2 channel receiver to drive them. I no longer have that unit (failed). Is that still the best option or are there other more effective means? I would like to reinstall the three shakers in our new sofa.

If thats the best and easiest bet - what is the lowest price option out there? Maybe something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/AudioSource-AM...cmu_pg__header
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post #2115 of 2529 Old 12-06-2011, 08:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcrx View Post

I have three shakers I salvaged from our old HT long ago. I used to use a secondary 2 channel receiver to drive them. I no longer have that unit (failed). Is that still the best option or are there other more effective means? I would like to reinstall the three shakers in our new sofa.

If thats the best and easiest bet - what is the lowest price option out there? Maybe something like this:

http://www.amazon.com/AudioSource-AM...cmu_pg__header

That AudioSource looks like a very clean solution. One thing it lacks though that might be helpful is a remote control for volume control. My experience has been that no matter how carefully you dial in the shake level, there are always some programs/movies with either too much or too little shake based on how they mixed the audio. Having a remote volume control can be handy to tweak it on the fly. We programmed buttons on the Harmony for "shake up" and "shake down" to make it easy to adjust remotely. Other than that, though, the AudioSource looks like a nice compact solution.

Shakers generally work better if you have a low pass filter to remove anything above around 50hz, so that would need to be done outside AudioSource if that is important to you.
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post #2116 of 2529 Old 12-07-2011, 09:14 AM
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Well this is my first ever post to AVS, so please excuse any ignorance. (long time reader though)
I just discovered the existance of tactile transducers last week... and have been reading all the information I can find on them..... most of which leads back to butt-kickers.

I am far from an audio expert.... but MAN DO I LOVE movies and GAMING (PS3 - BF3 specifically). I really want a buttkicker set up for my couch in my living room. I am poor... lol no house no media room no theatre room, but I work with what I have.

hmm .. what I have... (please don't laugh...) Alright My receiver is a STR-2400ES which powers some cheap-ass tower speakers up front, along with the Klipsh Quintet II set (center, surrounds, rear surrounds) Oh yeah .... It's also powering, more importantly ... two sub woofers. One is a large subwoofer I bought on sale at walmart many years ago... I believe it to be a "Acous-tech" brand ... not sure, and more recently a Precision Acoustics 10" 150-Watt Powered Subwoofer (HD S10) ...got it for $99 which i thought was a good price new.

I have yet to look under my couch (black leather... beat to ****) .... but each end reclines and the middle doesn't, picked it up online for like $100 last year.

What I really want is the buttkicker LFE kit. But the Amps don't seem to be available anywhere.

I think I would settle for the wireless kit ... My main question to start I guess is how much OOOMPH difference am I going to notice if I choose to go with the 300 Watt AMP(Wireless Kit) vs. the 1000 Watt AMP (LFE kit)

Will just one of the wireless buttkickers output enough thump if mounted under the middle of my couch to accomodate both the side reclining seats? Even if it's not mounted and the "under the foot of the couch" mount/kit is used?

I've checked ebay and there are a few (very few listings) .... I've never spent this much over ebay and it makes me nervous.... I'd much rather buy from a dealer... but they appear to be unnavailable anywhere.... can anyone comment on this. I think I read a few pages back that inventory is expected at the end of January.

I am not stupid for wanting a buttkicker am I .... Is "buttkicker" -> tactile transducer as "Monster" -> Cables.?
I am definitely a "monoprice" kinda guy (side note.. just ordered a bunch of banana plugs and speaker equivilents that I am recieving today)

From what I've read everyone is so happy with their products(buttkicker).....

If anyone in the forums is selling stuff I could use I would be more than happy to save some $ and support this awesome community, or if anyone can link me in the right direction that would be great also ... I have been scouring ebay, craigslist, and kijiji ... but only really looking for buttkicker... because anything else seems to get so technical whereas the buttkicker kit comes with everything necessary!

Ps. Shipping can be a consideration since I am in Toronto, Ontario, Canada ... not the US.
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post #2117 of 2529 Old 12-07-2011, 09:26 AM
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Good luck finding all the parts you need (AMPS). I am in the process of trying to get my setup to work and have spent hours on here and at home tweaking stuff to no avail. $1500= into this for 6 recliners I have nothing working yet. Buttkicker company is supposed to have stock of everything by January they said, but it seems like they have been saying this for over a year now just keep pushing back the date. I am too far deep $$$-wise into my project to abandon it now.

My advice to you is to just wait til the right parts like the AMP are available from buttkicker and save up.
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post #2118 of 2529 Old 12-07-2011, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjp View Post

That AudioSource looks like a very clean solution. One thing it lacks though that might be helpful is a remote control for volume control. My experience has been that no matter how carefully you dial in the shake level, there are always some programs/movies with either too much or too little shake based on how they mixed the audio. Having a remote volume control can be handy to tweak it on the fly. We programmed buttons on the Harmony for "shake up" and "shake down" to make it easy to adjust remotely. Other than that, though, the AudioSource looks like a nice compact solution.

Shakers generally work better if you have a low pass filter to remove anything above around 50hz, so that would need to be done outside AudioSource if that is important to you.

Good point on the volume control - I do remember that being handy and had a similar button arrangement on my old MX-500 remote... maybe I should just do up a second standard stereo receiver...

I have an F-mod that I plan on running into the receiver. Not sure if it is a 50hz cutoff or not but something around there...

So I will split the sub out from my main receiver and send one side to my sub, the other into the F-mod then into the second receiver. Then speaker output to the shakers. I had a series setup before, but I guess the wiring setup depends on the receiver used (?)

I also just discovered that I have four shakers. I had only used three before (three Berklines) but had a "spare" in waiting. I can easily use all four this time around. However, upon examining the underside of my sofa it looks like I will need to add some wood bracing for the attachment points, otherwise I would have to attach them directly to the springs of the sofa. I would imagine that a rigid setup is the preferred method?
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post #2119 of 2529 Old 12-07-2011, 09:39 AM
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Okay, thanks for the advice, I am hoping to try and keep the price to about $500 tops ..we'll see how that goes.... I saw on their website buttkickergear.com that the LFE kit was the same price as the wireless kit ... but I am guessing that will likely change when they have stock...

I would prefer the wireless solution but if the 300 watt amp doesn't provide as much 'kick' as I'm hoping for .... it would be nice to have the 1000 watt amp just to know I can add an additional transducer if necessary down the road... knowing that with the wireless kit the amp is limited to just one transducer is a bit of a deal breaker...

Their seems to be more of the Gamer2 buttkickers floating around .. but I can only assume it would prove difficult to attach that rig to my couch and that it wouldn't shake the whole thing...
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post #2120 of 2529 Old 12-07-2011, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake180 View Post

Okay, thanks for the advice, I am hoping to try and keep the price to about $500 tops ..we'll see how that goes.... I saw on their website buttkickergear.com that the LFE kit was the same price as the wireless kit ... but I am guessing that will likely change when they have stock...

I would prefer the wireless solution but if the 300 watt amp doesn't provide as much 'kick' as I'm hoping for .... it would be nice to have the 1000 watt amp just to know I can add an additional transducer if necessary down the road... knowing that with the wireless kit the amp is limited to just one transducer is a bit of a deal breaker...

Their seems to be more of the Gamer2 buttkickers floating around .. but I can only assume it would prove difficult to attach that rig to my couch and that it wouldn't shake the whole thing...

From what I understand the gamer is designed for like an office chair for those playing PC games, if you look on youtube there are some videos on how people modded racing rigs and other chairs to use the gamer. As far as recliner/couch I dont know if 1 gamer will give you really good effect on a recliner which also leads to the fact of solidly connecting it to something on the recliner.

I spent 2 weeks experimeneting with wood attachments but none of them worked with my recliners because of the reclining mechanism hitting the kicker. I finally just bit the bullet and bought angle iron at home depot and built "H" braces and bolted everything down tight and used a ton of loctite.

whatever you do good luck! :-)

Also wear gloves LOL my hands are so cut up and burnt from metal flake shards !!! Haaaaaa!
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post #2121 of 2529 Old 12-07-2011, 12:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake180 View Post

I am not stupid for wanting a buttkicker am I .... Is "buttkicker" -> tactile transducer as "Monster" -> Cables.?
I am definitely a "monoprice" kinda guy (side note.. just ordered a bunch of banana plugs and speaker equivilents that I am recieving today)

If you're a monoprice kind of guy, I would definitely recommend 4 Aura Pro Shakers (currently around $40 each, sometimes on sale for much less) and the AudioSource amp mentioned in the prior post or something like it. The Auras aren't wireless, but for under $250 you will have a whole lot of shaking going on. I have the Aura Pros mounted one each in 4 theater chairs and they are great. I haven't tried Buttkickers, so I don't know how the Aura compare side-by-side, but I have found nothing at all lacking in the Auras. I installed the Auras just before The Who played half-time during the Superbowl a couple years ago and it felt like the room was going to take off when we had it cranked up.
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post #2122 of 2529 Old 12-07-2011, 12:41 PM
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Interesting ... thanks .. maybe I will go this route.... and look into the buttkickers down the road only if necessary, I really wish I could get feedback though from someone who's tried both... I know the price is right ... but for $200 if the experience is going to be lacking compared to that of a buttkicker than I'd rather spend the extra coin!

I will do some DD on the aura shakers.... will they be a pain to install on a couch ?
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post #2123 of 2529 Old 12-07-2011, 12:56 PM
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question....what is the best way to wire 5 bass shakers? can i series/parallel wire them?
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post #2124 of 2529 Old 12-07-2011, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dukedallas2005 View Post

So I talked to a great guy (Andrew) at the Guitammer Co. He said that he is pretty sure that I just need a pre-amp. I guess the behringer EPX4000 input sensitivity is at ~1.2 volts being intended for musicians and most Home audio equip outputs at 200-300 milivolts. So I guess I need to bump up the power....ugh more $$$ If this doenst fix the issue I am gonna scream! LOL!

You may get some satisfaction by connecting two of the 'kicker in series to each of two of the speaker binding posts on your Yamaha directly, e.g. surround backs. Make sure the crossover for those channels is set at 80 Hz or so. Then play some music in all-channel stereo mode and you should get some shaking going on.
At least this way you can test the 'Kickers while the preamp is on its way.
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post #2125 of 2529 Old 12-07-2011, 01:06 PM
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For my son's driving seat, we use two Dayton mini "puck" shakers:





They are driven by this "powerhouse" T-amp (cost: ~$20):



The driving seat setup works really well, although the GT5 game he uses is fairly weak on generating effects so we have to crank that T-amp up all the way.

The 4 Auro Pros are being driven by a spare channel on the McIntosh amp and controlled by an Atlantic Technology parametric sub control that provides frequency cutoff and shake level by remote:





I really haven't found anything lacking in the Aura Pros, but I would also be interested in hearing from someone that has tried both.
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post #2126 of 2529 Old 12-07-2011, 01:20 PM
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http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/16...omparison-long

this was a pretty interesting read...
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post #2127 of 2529 Old 12-07-2011, 01:21 PM
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In my house I have three Buttkicker LFEs and 3 of the 1000W amps, two Buttkicker Advance with wireless amps, four Aura Bass-shakers (not Pro) and four eBay-bought K-Woon shakers.

The Auras are the same internally as the Pros, except with less efficient cooling, so they're rated at only half the power. Both these and the K-Woons go down to 20 Hz and the Buttkicker products go down to a theoretcial 5 Hz (I've successfully tested the LFEs at under 10 Hz). I can tell you that even 20 Hz is a great feeling and in most cases, the Aura and K-Woons aremore than adequate for giving an immersive sensation.
The K-Woons, in particular, are fantastic value and blow away the Auras for power.
The benefit of a 20Hz rated shaker is that one can use a normal HT receiver if required. For this, I have the option of using my old Yamaha receiver, which has a 20 Hz to 20 KHz frequency response. Added benefit is that I can use the remote, or program a universal like a Harmony to control the shaker intensity.

I really do like the quality of the buttkicker products, though. Using the platform provided in the wireless kit, I was able to get one foot each of a fairly heavy couch and loveseat combo on to it. The buttkicker Advance with the 300W wireless amp was easily able to shake the seats pleasantly in movies, even with 5 people in total seated on them. My goal is not to cause violent shaking, but rather to enhance the rumble of bass in movies, and this was done just right. I now have an LFE and 1000W amp there, and it can do all that the Advance could, of course. I have the dial up at about 1/3 and typically watch movies at -20db on my Onkyo 5007.

All this to say that I think you'll be happy with whatever solution you choose as long as it's mounted properly. A cheaper 20 Hz shaker can be a tremendous addition to your set-up, and you don't have to opt for Buttkicker stuff, although they do make a great product.
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post #2128 of 2529 Old 12-07-2011, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake180 View Post

Ps. Shipping can be a consideration since I am in Toronto, Ontario, Canada ... not the US.

Jake, I'm in Montreal. I've scored Aura Bass-shakers (four for $100, shipped) and BK kits ($225 shipped for the wireless kit in pristine condition) from Canuck Audio Mart on occasion. Are you a member there? It's worth a daily perusal in the home theatre classifieds section for a bargain.
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post #2129 of 2529 Old 12-07-2011, 01:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fitbrit View Post

You may get some satisfaction by connecting two of the 'kicker in series to each of two of the speaker binding posts on your Yamaha directly, e.g. surround backs. Make sure the crossover for those channels is set at 80 Hz or so. Then play some music in all-channel stereo mode and you should get some shaking going on.
At least this way you can test the 'Kickers while the preamp is on its way.

Thanks for the response fitbrit! I have to try to read up on all the frequency info etc...i dont know/understand the levels and what they mean in Hertz ... what is low? and what is high end of spectrum for a sub...etc

Last night I hooked up and tried kind of what you mentioned but not directly i used rca cables into the preamp section of the receiver the external amp did get signal and it lit up but the shakers had no response... :-(

PS Nice SETUP!
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post #2130 of 2529 Old 12-07-2011, 02:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake180 View Post

will they be a pain to install on a couch ?

They're easy to mount as long as you have a solid surface to attach to. I would think on a couch there would be plenty of bracing underneath to attach to, but depends on the model. On reclining chairs or couches, you need to make sure the shakers can't get caught on anything when reclining and also ensure that the wires are secured so they can't get caught in the moving parts during recline.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake180 View Post

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/16...omparison-long

this was a pretty interesting read...

Thanks, interesting feedback. They mention an Aura modification in that thread. I found it here: http://www.keohi.com/keohihdtv/acces...uykuo_mod.html

I might give this mod a try to lower the resonant frequency. I haven't found the Auras lacking, but sometimes you don't know what you're missing until you try something better. I do find the Auras requires tweaking for different movies, so maybe it's because the resonant frequency is higher on the Auras.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fitbrit View Post

In my house I have three Buttkicker LFEs and 3 of the 1000W amps, two Buttkicker Advance with wireless amps, four Aura Bass-shakers (not Pro) and four eBay-bought K-Woon shakers.

The Auras are the same internally as the Pros, except with less efficient cooling, so they're rated at only half the power. Both these and the K-Woons go down to 10 Hz and the Buttkicker products go down to a theoretcial 5 Hz (I've successfully tested the LFEs at under 10 Hz). I can tell you that even 20 Hz is a great feeling and in most cases, the Aura and K-Woons aremore than adequate for giving an immersive sensation.
The K-Woons, in particular, are fantastic value and blow away the Auras for power.
The benefit of a 20Hz rated shaker is that one can use a normal HT receiver if required. For this, I have the option of using my old Yamaha receiver, which has a 20 Hz to 20 KHz frequency response. Added benefit is that I can use the remote, or program a universal like a Harmony to control the shaker intensity.

I really do like the quality of the buttkicker products, though. Using the platform provided in the wireless kit, I was able to get one foot each of a fairly heavy couch and loveseat combo on to it. The buttkicker Advance with the 300W wireless amp was easily able to shake the seats pleasantly in movies, even with 5 people in total seated on them. My goal is not to cause violent shaking, but rather to enhance the rumble of bass in movies, and this was done just right. I now have an LFE and 1000W amp there, and it can do all that the Advance could, of course. I have the dial up at about 1/3 and typically watch movies at -20db on my Onkyo 5007.

All this to say that I think you'll be happy with whatever solution you choose as long as it's mounted properly. A cheaper 20 Hz shaker can be a tremendous addition to your set-up, and you don't have to opt for Buttkicker stuff, although they do make a great product.

Good info -- thanks for sharing
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