Shakers - Simple/Cheap Hookup - Visual Guide - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 2493 Old 11-26-2003, 12:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Since I'm not very speaker or amplifier savy I thought I post my quick/easy/cheap/basic way in which I hooked up my 4 bass shakers to 3 chairs using a old prologic receiver that needs 8 ohms per channel.

Note: I zip tied the shakers to the seat springs under my Berkline 099 HT recliners. The overall effect is not a strong on some scenes as expected, but my old receiver is not very powerful. And some movies don't have as much "LFE" as I thought.

2 Pictures to be uploaded.
I have an idea for hooking up 3 pairs on 2 receiver channels as well. If any one needs/wants that let me know I can draw that up as well.
LL

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post #2 of 2493 Old 11-26-2003, 12:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Practical speakers in SERIES wiring.
Good idea for moving/removing a chair from a room for some reason, or if you don't want to run wires from one chair to the next based on spacing.
LL

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post #3 of 2493 Old 11-26-2003, 03:29 PM
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Hi Bob,
We have a dorm/theatre that has (10) seats, and we were given (10) 25 watt Bass Shakers. We want to hook them up to an amp with (5) going to "A" speakers on the amp and (5) to "B" speakers on the amp. Or (5) to the left channel and (5) to the right.
Our question is how many watts do you think it'll take to drive these puppies and exactly how do you wire these up? We've heard from ppl stating to run these in series, some said parrallel, some said you have to wire them + to - to + due to the ohm loads.
But not one of them (schematics) agreed with the other,,,,,,,,,,,,

Please help us Bob, its an all girl dorm and we'll do anything

Jessica

P.S. 1st row (3) chairs
2nd row (3) chairs
3rd row (4) chairs
(10) total

Whats a nice guy like you doing in a place like this?
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post #4 of 2493 Old 11-26-2003, 08:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by CineFreak
Hi Bob,
We have a dorm/theatre that has (10) seats, and we were given (10) 25 watt Bass Shakers. We want to hook them up to an amp with (5) going to "A" speakers on the amp and (5) to "B" speakers on the amp. Or (5) to the left channel and (5) to the right.
Our question is how many watts do you think it'll take to drive these puppies and exactly how do you wire these up? We've heard from ppl stating to run these in series, some said parrallel, some said you have to wire them + to - to + due to the ohm loads.
But not one of them (schematics) agreed with the other,,,,,,,,,,,,

Please help us Bob, its an all girl dorm and we'll do anything

Jessica

P.S. 1st row (3) chairs
2nd row (4) chairs
3rd row (4) chairs
(10) total

Jessica,

I've seen some of your other posts and I was also confused by the diagrams you were given...

I'm NOT an expert but I have had an electrical engineering class and read quite a few post before buying.
My diagrams were based on how I'm setting up my chairs based on what I've learned here with buying a NEW subwoofer amp.

Checking your math... You have 10 shakers and 11 chairs... ??
----
I just re-read one of your posts. Some one suggested running many in series to reduce chance of damage but would reduce the total output power.

I stereo AMP would TRY to hook 5 in series to the Left Channel, and 5 in series to the Right Channel.
If mono Split in to two paralel sets of 5 in series.

I would think you need around 250W for the Amp - 25x10=250.
I'm not sure how running 5 in series will affect total output.
I'd give it a try.

My OLD PROLOGIC receiver is low Watts (don't remember amount) but they are shaking the recliners enough if turned almost all the way up. Its probably not helping that I'm splitting the SUB signal 3 times... *shrug*

Do you need a sketch on how to wire them up practically?
I can probably scan/upload it this weekend.
Have you tried mounting them yet???
Aren't there any BOYS at that college that are more than eager to get into your room to HELP you girlies out? *snicker*

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post #5 of 2493 Old 11-26-2003, 08:28 PM
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Also, Jessica, call Chris in the Part Express wholesale department. He is a guru with Shakers. 1-800-338-0531

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post #6 of 2493 Old 11-26-2003, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Sounds like a good suggestion!

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post #7 of 2493 Old 11-26-2003, 09:14 PM
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Bob, another thought. Could she use a speaker selector box to control impedance? Some of those you can wire 10 speakers simultaneously.

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post #8 of 2493 Old 11-26-2003, 09:56 PM
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Speaker selectors put a resistor in-line that makes sure you never drop below 8ohms.. They trade heat and efficiency to get more speakers. We just need to wire them to make sure they hit at 8ohm at the amp. (Or 4ohm if it will handle it).. I've got 4 25watt models on a Polk 100watt plate amp and have it turned down to 25% volume..

How you attach the shakers also have a great impact on their performance and efficiency. Springs will probably absorb as much energy as the transmit, and it would most likely take a lot of power to move relatively thin springs at lower frequencies. Try running a piece of wood between the cushion and the springs where you won't feel it, and attach the shaker to the wood.

Now back to the 10 shakers..

For a stereo amp and 8ohm per side:

Take 8 of the shakers and wire them in SERIES in groups of two.

This gives you 4 groups of 8ohm and two 4ohm shakers left over.

Take two of the groups and wire them in PARALLEL. Do the same for the other two groups. This gives you two groups of four shakers at 4ohms each.

Now wire in one of you left over shakers in SERIES with each of your groups of 4. That puts a group at 4ohm together with a single at 4ohm for a total of 8ohms per channel per group with two groups.
...................

For a mono amp at 8ohms. Take 3 groups of three with the 10th left over.

PARALLEL the three shakers together. That gives you 3 groups at 1.3ohm, and one shaker at 4ohm.

SERIES the three groups together for a total of 3.9ohm.

SERIES the single shaker in with the the group. 3.9+4=7.9ohm total..

I'll draw a diagram if that will help..

AVS
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post #9 of 2493 Old 11-26-2003, 10:23 PM
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Yes, if you could draw a diagram I would appreciate it. What if I used a QSC RMX-850 bridged mono (850 watts into 2 ohms). How many Pro Bass Shakers could I wire to that 2 ohm load and not destroy either the amp, or the Shakers? That is probably too much power for that scenario. With this amp it may be better to leave it in stereo.

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post #10 of 2493 Old 11-26-2003, 10:48 PM
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Quote:


How many Pro Bass Shakers could I wire to that 2 ohm load and not destroy either the amp, or the Shakers?

How many do you want?? You can play around with the ohms to get where you need to be.. The pro models are still 4ohm I think, and take 50watts a channel. So going by the 'numbers', you could put 17 on the amp and not be under or overpowered.. (in reality, you can be over or under, but over wattage would be better as you can still blow up the voice-coil with distortion..).

So 17... Wire 8 pairs together in series and get 8 8ohm groups and 1 4ohm shaker left.

wire 4 pairs of groups together in parallel and get 4 groups of 4ohms and one 4ohm shaker left.

wire 2 pairs of groups together in series and get 2 groups of 8ohm and one 4ohm shaker left.

wire the two groups together in parallel and get 1 big bundle at 4ohms and one 4ohm shaker left over.

Wire the group and the left over shaker in parallel and get a 2ohm final load.

And no, I'm not doing a diagram for that, but here's the two for the dorm room:

Two 8ohm groups:


One 8ohm group:


Good luck!

AVS
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post #11 of 2493 Old 11-26-2003, 10:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by Kevin D
How you attach the shakers also have a great impact on their performance and efficiency. Springs will probably absorb as much energy as the transmit, and it would most likely take a lot of power to move relatively thin springs at lower frequencies. Try running a piece of wood between the cushion and the springs where you won't feel it, and attach the shaker to the wood.
[/b]

OK for starters that 10 speaker setup is obviously above my head.

Kevin D can you also explain how to hook up 6 4Ohm speakers using my prologic receiver using L and R channels with input from my Pre-Amp out. (See diagram in beginning of post).
------
Shakers and Springs.

I could use some help/suggestions here...
I zip tied the shakers to the cushion springs based upon someone else's suggestion. This suggestion was good, because it required NO drilling.

How would you suggest I place a piece of wood (plywood? 3/8 shelving boards?) under my berkline recliners?

Thick foam (Top) - Thin Springs (Middle) - Shakers (bottom) is my current setup.
I don't think I can get a board between foam and springs without ripping apart my BRAND NEW berklines.
Were you suggesting:
Foam, SPrings, Board, Shaker? What will that do? Disperse the vibrations a little?
----
My PL receiver's power
I wish I knew the rated power output per channel. Perhaps the receiver is too weak and everything else is good... *shrug*

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post #12 of 2493 Old 11-26-2003, 10:57 PM
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Thanks Kevin. Great diagram. And Bob, thanks for your diagrams. Jessica is going to get all this info at once Monday morning, he he.

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post #13 of 2493 Old 11-26-2003, 11:24 PM
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Bob,

I apologize.. I looked at your diagrams and read your message, but must have skipped right over the 3 pair portion of it..

With three pair, you are limited to either 6 or 12 ohms.. I honestly think that your receiver would run fine at 6ohms, so I would try that first..

12ohms is simply series wiring all 3 shakers together on each side of the amp.

6ohms is two shakers wired in parallel for a 2ohm load and then this wired in series to the remaining shaker for a (2+4) 6ohm load..

Calculating it is pretty easy.. Series you just add the numbers.. two 4ohms is 8ohms.. Parallel is (R1*R2)/(R1+R2)... For the same numbers, you just half it.. (4*4)/(4+4) = 16/8 = 2...... If you had an 8ohm load and a 4ohm load, it would be (8*4)/8+4) = 32/12 = 2.66ohms, almost as low as two 4ohm speakers..

As far as attaching the shakers, in recliners you don't have much option. I'd have to see under the chair to really think about it, but I bet you could fit a strip of 1/4" ply between the foam and springs.. I'm thinking about 4-5 springs running front to back.. If it's crisscrossed springs, never mind about that idea..

You could try screwing them with small screws to the front/back, or sides of the chair frame.. Something to get the vibration up through the back of the chair, as the butt only effect gets old after a while..

Maybe zip tie a piece of wood across several springs? Again, if the springs all ready criss-cross and touch each other anyway, disregard..

You are losing some vibration through the zip ties too. No matter how tight you get them, they will never be as tight as one screwed into something else.. The wood works well because the shaker can become fully coupled with it and then has a larger area to hit more of the springs.. Right now your 5" circle of power is only transferring it where ever a spring is touching it.. So together you might only have a 1" circle of coupled energy..

AVS
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post #14 of 2493 Old 11-27-2003, 08:32 AM
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First off thanks all for the replies, its greatly appreciated.

Sorry, but I'll be honest and state that I'm still not quite sure of the wiring. Can somebody physically draw a diagram, please.
I know these (Shakers) are 4 ohms at 25 watts each, and would love to have the front two rows (6) shakers on one channel and the last row (4) shakers on the other channel.
Also should we get a 250 watt amp, or more?

We've had these badboys for sometime now and are anxious to get them bouncing. They're mounted to the seats and just waiting for the hookup.

Thanks again for all your help.

Jessica

Whats a nice guy like you doing in a place like this?
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post #15 of 2493 Old 11-27-2003, 09:10 AM
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Anytime Jessica, but I am sure Kevin and Bob are giving you more help than I am. It is good to see a lady in the forum we don't see them that often and it is good to see not just guys are into home theater.
I would say for the non-pro Shaker of 25 watts x 10 Shakers a 250 watts amp would give each one 25 watts with good headroom.

"Whats a nice guy like you doing in a place like this?" I get asked that a lot.



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post #16 of 2493 Old 11-27-2003, 02:35 PM
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Back to the bass transfered by a Shaker through a piece of wood. How thick do you need? Hard wood, or softwood?
TIA
Scott
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post #17 of 2493 Old 11-27-2003, 05:02 PM
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Scott,
I would say hardwood, this gives a better resonance throughout your chair pending that the wood itself is mounted directly to the frame. Softwood would ever so slightly soften or deaden the "prescence" of the shakers as there really is no sound.
Think of the games at the amusement halls that you sit-in. They have the shakers mounted directly to the chair under your "Tucas" for maximum effect.

Jessica
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post #18 of 2493 Old 11-27-2003, 06:13 PM
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Good point. I remember demoing Shakers (transducers) at Disneyland a long time ago. I also remember demoing them at WCES. The chair was soft, but it was a solid chair. My plan is to mount 4 Pro Shakers in my sweet spot black leather chair. It was a expensive chair. It does have solid bracing with wood already. But, I believe I will need at least a piece of walnut, or other hardwood for mounting these Shakers on the back and perhaps even the bottom. I want 2 hitting into my back and 2 hitting into my ass.

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post #19 of 2493 Old 11-27-2003, 06:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:


Originally posted by hometheaterguy
Good point. I remember demoing Shakers (transducers) at Disneyland a long time ago. I also remember demoing them at WCES. The chair was soft, but it was a solid chair. My plan is to mount 4 Pro Shakers in my sweet spot black leather chair. It was a expensive chair. It does have solid bracing with wood already. But, I believe I will need at least a piece of walnut, or other hardwood for mounting these Shakers on the back and perhaps even the bottom. I want 2 hitting into my back and 2 hitting into my ass.

Two on the back: All I can say is OUCH or thats gonna be a great massage!!! (Do you mean Pro or normal version?)

(I won't comment on 2 hitting into your ass.)

Do you want to feel the movie or fall out of your chair?

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post #20 of 2493 Old 11-27-2003, 06:56 PM
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You think I will need a lead vest to protect my kidneys? LoL! I already have a M&K sub hitting me in the face, rear, right and a dual 15" ported cabinet front left corner. Talk about putting the "theater" in home theater, sheese. I want to get the Pro version. The amp I have for the Shakers is a QSC RMX-850 (200W X 2). I want to feel the bass more, a back massage would be great. Do you think I should just use two Shakers?

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post #21 of 2493 Old 11-27-2003, 09:49 PM
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I've personally sat on a chair at a high end home theatre store that had (2) two 25 watt shakers strategically mounted,
1/ centered between your knees and "Tucas" and
2/ one centered at the base of your ribs.

Wow, what a really great theatrical experience!, watching The 5th Element. The great thing about it was that they only came on during the LFE's.

I think anymore than two may be overkill, and a little overpowering but hey what do I know.

Jessica

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post #22 of 2493 Old 11-28-2003, 10:03 AM
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OK, I am lost on all this wiring. I am pre wiring my theater room now and I just ordered my 4 Aura Pro Bass shakers from Parts express. I am trying to figure out what wires I need to run and what kind of amp I need. The Aura's are rated at 50 watts RMS/75 watts max. *Impedance: 4 ohms. I do not understand wiring in parallel vs Series.

Also how many times can I split the LEF single out of my Receiver? I need one to go to my SVS PB2 Plus and some or one to head to the AMP for the shakers. I have an old Yamaha 595A receiver I was thinking of using to drive the Shakers. The Yamaha has 70- watts to all five channels at 8 ohms. How could this work?

Thanks for any help.
- Scott
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post #23 of 2493 Old 11-28-2003, 10:25 AM - Thread Starter
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shine5555,

Go back to the first two posts of this thread I posted some SIMPLE diagrams that almost match your needs. I RECOMMEND trying the old reciever FIRST. Look at my drawings I'm did the same thing you are wanting to do. Set your old receiver to 2channel Stereo Mode (or a mono mode that goes equally to ALL channels).
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...37#post2975137

I don't know how many times you can split, with out noticable loss.
-----
The only difference between the pro and normal version is the speaker connections (and the total power). The Pro's appear to have the RCA style plugs. If you're receiver/amp output don't have that find some adaptors at RadioShak.

4x50W speakers=200 watts... I still think you should try old reciever first. AT full power they might be to strong anyways...

With the 4ohm speakers you NEED to wire in parallel as I showed.
----
If you buy a mono amp with only one output, post a new question on how to best hook them up...
----

PS to all I'll post some pictures later this weekend of the underside of chairs and the wiring.

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post #24 of 2493 Old 11-28-2003, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Shine,
IF you are just PRE-WIRING, just run one set of wires to each seat/platform back to the receiver areaand work out the details in the near future.

IF that is to much wiring, run ONE + wire to the first speaker of a pair, then run the - wire to the second speaker and plug it into the +. Then run the - from the second speaker back to the receiver. That is how you run 2 speakers in PARALLEL on one channel.

PM and tell me how many speakers and what type of wire connectors on your OLD receiver and I will TRY to help and possibly make a sketch. Let me know how many seat and a general idea of placement. Does your old receiver have a 2channel Stereo or MONO mix mode? Are you using RCA from the SUB out on your "good" receiver like in my drawing?

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post #25 of 2493 Old 11-28-2003, 11:32 AM
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Overkill is never a word used in our theater. But if you guys/gals (Jessica and Bob) feel 2 Pro Shakers will give me the "feel" of bass, I will just use 2.

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post #26 of 2493 Old 11-28-2003, 11:34 AM
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shine5555, how many decoders do you have? If you have a DVD player with a decoder, use the Woofer out for one LFE, and if you use a pre/pro (audio-video preamp processor) as well, use the LFE/SUB out for the other sub woofer. In pro audio channels are daisy-chained a lot.

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post #27 of 2493 Old 11-30-2003, 02:15 PM
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I was thinking of a Parts Express 250 watt (@ 4 ohms) plate amp (the kind with the remote controled volume and cross over setting) and four Aura Pro shakers for now.

I do have one free channel on my Samson amp (the other drives an SVS sub), but it's rated at 350 watts/channel at 4 ohms and 230 watts at 8 ohms, with no easy way to add an adjustable crossover (except a passive, fixed inline low pass FMOD) and the volume cannot be controlled via remote (I'm sure that adds some frustration when fine tuning).

Is that a good start, or am I missing something (too little amp power if I add more or too much power)? Does anyone have a simple diagram for running four Aura Pros using a 4 ohm load?

Anyone have some experience with the remote controlled sub plate amp listed here?:

http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showd...ID=15985&DID=7

Parts Express has free shipping until Monday, so I need some help ASAP!

Thanks!

Dan

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post #28 of 2493 Old 11-30-2003, 04:29 PM
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Dan, great color and creativity in your web site. Are you North of Denver? I would love to make a trip up there.
I like the 300-793 from PE. Plenty of power for 4 Pros. The IR VC and crossover adjustments is great. Class AB is a plus as well. You could mount the IR eye (receiver)near a Xantech, or Niles IR repeater system receiver.

Here is Bobs schematic for 4 Shakers: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attac...137&fullpage=1

Here is a diagram you could double up by Aura:


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post #29 of 2493 Old 11-30-2003, 04:44 PM
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hometheaterguy,

Thanks for the compliment on my first web site. I'm still in the learning stage on some of this HTML code, and would like to get Frontpage XP as it adds a lot of built-in "pro-grade" look and feel without being a web design expert, which I am not.

Any idea on whether this amp will take 6 Aura Pros okay? While I'm taking Parts Express up on their free shipping offer I thought I might add a couple extra for the heck of it (and who knows when they'll run out of their clearance shakers). Do you have an idea about adding the two extra shakers to these schematics (thanks by the way for the links)?

Also, did you find the 300-793's built in 12 dB/octave cross over steep enough? I was thinking of getting an FMOD 50 Hz low pass filter and adding it to create a ~24 dB/octave slope in case I still get shaking from slamming doors, etc. which isn't very realistic.

Yeah, I'm up here in Fort Collins, and have everything crammed into a small living room in a house I'm sharing right now. Talk about overly cozy!

Dan

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post #30 of 2493 Old 11-30-2003, 06:25 PM
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I decided to go with just four shakers for now, but I did get a pair of 50 Hz low pass filters just in case (I'll just use one).

The one thing about that plate amp is how are the speaker wires attached in the back (the open ended part with the exposed circuit boards)? Are there special plugs I need to get?

Also, the thing about Bob's diagram is that he's using stereo amps, whereas the plate amp is, I'm assuming, set up to power one sub driver in mono. How would you hook up four shakers at 4 ohms then?

I could use all the help I can get.

Dan

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