SV Cylinder Sub vs. HSU Cylinder Sub - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 47 Old 12-30-2003, 06:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I have a dedicated theater, wife let me have it, so there is no wife acceptance factor issue.

I have B&W 603 series 3’s for all channels. Rotel separates. Room is 21x12x7. (1762 Cubic feet.)

I have come down to two subs to complete the mix. The HSU TN-1220HO with the 500 Watt Amp, or the SV 16-46 with the 1000 watt amp. This will allow me to add a second sub later.

So which is better? Pros? Cons?

Which one is faster, tighter, and goes lower? Any other opinions?

Thanks.
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post #2 of 47 Old 12-30-2003, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Sorry,

Important fact. 90% HT, 10% music.
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post #3 of 47 Old 12-30-2003, 07:19 AM
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I very much doubt you'll need two subs, however it's your system. Why not buy a single active model (get the PC Plus)- you can easily add another, as it has all the features you need in a dual setup. Wheras if you buy the passive sub/2 channel poweramp you'll feel you MUST buy another one, as the other amp is sitting there unused an all lonely ;-) And also need the SVS bass box for phase and sub sonic filter. More expense/cabling and racking space.

I haven't heard HSU (own a SVS PC Plus) but I dislike the design of HSU's- driver at the top, tall and not very wide.

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post #4 of 47 Old 12-30-2003, 07:53 AM
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I own a VTF-3 and have heard a 20-39PC+ in my home.

I had the chance to hear the TN1220HO at Hsu Research, and it is the tightest and cleanest bass that I have heard.

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post #5 of 47 Old 12-30-2003, 11:01 AM
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No wife acceptance factor - lucky boy.
I have a VTF-2 / VTF-3 and a TN1220 in the garage that the wife will not let me put inside (told you that you are lucky). I have heard several Svs subwoofers including a 16-46 and the the tightest and cleanest bass out of all of them is the TN1220 that is in my garage (when hooked up with the Hsu 500w amp). Of course my wife just prefer's the look of boxes as they are more decor friendly to her. Divorce costs are much more expensive that any audio gear I own, so the TN stays in the garage "for now". (not that the VTFs are bad, just not as good as the 1220)

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post #6 of 47 Old 12-30-2003, 12:30 PM
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I have 2 TN1220s pushed by a B&K 200wpc amp. They sound very good. Way better that the NHT subs I have had before. I am very lucky that the wife dosen't mind the looks. They are really tall. In fact, they look a little weird since they set behind my Axiom M80s which are several inches shorter. One thing to consider is they are top-heavy. Be careful if you have little kids or big dogs. Good luck
NETHOMAS

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post #7 of 47 Old 12-30-2003, 12:45 PM
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Caveat: I"m an SVS owner, haven't heard a Hsu.

Are you looking at the "Plus" or the "Ultra" ?

Either way, that's a tough decision, I think it would be safe to say either 16-46 could go lower in stock tune, plus you have the option to tune it even lower. As far as SQ, if the Hsu is "tighter and cleaner" against a "Plus", how about an "Ultra"? And by how much? Since your 90% HT, does this advantage show here? And if the 16-46 goes lower, by how much? Does each advantage negate the other's to you? So I think it gets down to NIT-PICKING......

Hsu cleaner? SVS louder/lower?
Hsu has about 4" smaller footprint, SVS about 5" shorter.
Hsu has top mounted driver(top heavy), SVS bottom mounted.
Hsu 500W amp, SVS 1000W.
Hsu will be about $150 cheaper, if SVS is Ultra, same if Plus.
Hsu 18hz, SVS 16hz/tunable.
Hsu built "away", SVS built "home".

I KNOW some of this is petty............these are the comparisons to make as far as I can see.

Good luck choosing.
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post #8 of 47 Old 12-30-2003, 01:22 PM
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Quote:
Hsu built "away", SVS built "home".
Just a bit of a correction before it gets taken as some sort of internet virus. The TNs (and current VTF-2) are all built right here in California. Not that it matters because most of the parts including amplifiers used in most subs brands are sourced from OS anyhow.
Quote:
Hsu 18hz, SVS 16hz
Also Hsu has a flat FR from 18-100 Hz ± 1 dB
Svs is 16-100Hz ± 3 dB

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post #9 of 47 Old 12-30-2003, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Also Hsu has a flat FR from 18-100 Hz ± 1 dB. Svs is 16-100Hz ± 3 dB
That's a point in Hsu's favor and counts for something, but once you put the sub in a real room that screws with the frequencies, that becomes moot............
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post #10 of 47 Old 12-30-2003, 02:06 PM - Thread Starter
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I was refering to the SV + series
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post #11 of 47 Old 12-30-2003, 02:24 PM
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Quote:
Hsu has about 4" smaller footprint, SVS about 5" shorter.
4" smaller footprint does not mean anything. You mean 87 sq in smaller footprint (or 112 sq in if you are counting it as taking a square space as opposed to circular). Hsu take up 56% of the footprint of the SVS.

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Hsu 500W amp, SVS 1000W
SVS is 1000w if both channels are driven. If you have 1 sub, it will be 500w. It is not spec'd to run bridged into 4 ohm.
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post #12 of 47 Old 12-30-2003, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
4" smaller footprint does not mean anything. You mean 87 sq in smaller footprint (or 112 sq in if you are counting it as taking a square space as opposed to circular). Hsu take up 56% of the footprint of the SVS.
Sorry........meant diameter.
Quote:
SVS is 1000w if both channels are driven. If you have 1 sub, it will be 500w. It is not spec'd to run bridged into 4 ohm.
True. It's still a 1000W amp? Which will be a plus if he adds a second sub like he mentioned.
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post #13 of 47 Old 12-30-2003, 02:33 PM
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Hey tke743,

Don't know if your considering powered subs at all............but this could be a winner..........has a built in eq to help get that FLAT response Hsu boys are so proud of ;)......http://www.svsubwoofers.com/news.htm
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post #14 of 47 Old 12-30-2003, 03:58 PM
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I had a slightly lower price point than you but I pretty much narrowed my choices down to the SVS PC+ line with 525watt amps ($775-$875)and the HSU TN-1220HO with 250watt amp($850).

My decision came down to these points:
The integrated amp was a point in favor of the SVS. (This wouldn't apply for you though)
The bottom mounted woofer was a point in favor of the SVS.
The better bang for the buck (wattage wise) was a point in favor of the SVS.
The ability to adjust the low end fequency response was a point in favor of the SVS. (Although at 16hz would you really need to go any lower?!?!) :)

I have not listened to either sub, but seeing that I am primarily going to be listening to HT (95%), I'm not too worried from a music aspect which sub sounds "better".

Either way, I don't think you can really go wrong with either of the two subs you are considering. Just get what is best for you and take all of the bias us SVS and Hsu owners have with a grain of salt. :)

Electricity: Always take the path of least resistance. (If only life was so simple)
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post #15 of 47 Old 12-30-2003, 05:24 PM
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The passive amp is actually favorable for Hsu because they do not need to modify their cylindrical outer wall in order to provide built-in amp. If you see the Hsu sub in person, you will notice very little cabinet resonation and flex, even in comparison to other subs.

The top mounted woofer on the Hsu does add concentration of weight towards top. There must be a good design reason for this orientation though, because Hsu has built down-firing cylinders in the past and claims that this version is the best. One interesting effect of this design is that no grille is required at the top of the subwoofer. A grille can impart a slight coloration to the sound. On any cylinder sub with ports at the top, a grille is a necessity so that loose objects do not fall into the ports.

The comparison of rated amplifier wattage is useful only if everything else in the design is the same. This is never really true. The Hsu uses an extremely long port, a very non-resonant structure, and overdamped alignment to help achieve prodigious output. A single TN1220HO used with 250 watt can shake almost everything in the room at frequencies as low as 15Hz, very cleanly too.

Variable tune is good. The Hsu is tuned so low that it certainly does not need any more extension, and it has a very good combination of clean output and extension. The next generation of TN-X subwoofers will have ability to variable tune and ability to be kept so that concentation of weight is centered more towards the bottom of the sub, but release date is very unclear.

Parametric eq is sometimes good. New user need to be careful when using a built-in equalizer. Using equalization to smooth and flatten frequency response at the primary listening position can sometimes be detrimental to the response signatures at other listening positions, so caution must be exercised. The next generation of Hsu subwoofers may see this as an added feature, but again release data is not certain.

Some of Hsu's trump cards when used with custom built 500 watt amplifier include:

> Audiophile-grade crossover (class A)
> Powerful and efficient amplification (class H power 500wattsRMS x 1 into one subwoofer, 400wattsRMS x2 into two subwoofers, 800 watts total effective) that can power up to two TN sub
> Feature filled amplification (soft-clipping, audiophile-grade high pass and low pass network, filtering of subsonic frequency)
> Easier ability to place sub on the floor on it's side and out of view
> Very little cabinet resonance and very little coloration with no built-in amp and no grille.
> Very easy to move around because of light weight, and very easy to place in the room because of little use of floorspace
> Extremely tight tolerances and very low and extended bass response as tested by industry professionals
> Extremely clean output with no hint of noise from ports when driven to prodigious bass output levels of greater than 110db's\\20Hz
> Ability to replicate music with accurate tone and definition and with massive headroom and output capabilities translates very well to the Home Theater environment where synthesized explosions are mixed in with more delicate and musical soundtrack on DVD.

I must add that ADIRE has a very well-tested cylinder subwoofer called SADHARA with wood finish, advertised with highest excursion driver current available, probably worth checking out.
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post #16 of 47 Old 12-30-2003, 06:56 PM
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I'd go with the HSU. Of course, I did go with HSU. The flat frequency response was the deal maker for me, and the output is more than enough to satisfy me. I run 2 TN1220HO subs with a HSU bass optimizer, powered with my Sunfire Cinema Grand power amp which gives it ~400W to each sub; same power as if driven by HSU's 500W amp.

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post #17 of 47 Old 12-30-2003, 07:11 PM
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~116db of very clean output from 20Hz to 80Hz from dual Hsu TN1220HO config, I hope that is enough!
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post #18 of 47 Old 12-30-2003, 10:33 PM
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also you can lay the tn12220 on their sides if you want.
with that kind of space i would look into the B4 from svs. that way you know you will have the baddest subwoofer on the block
also, if a sub can perform music well, it can do ht better. music in general is harder to do then movies

also, i didnt notice whether or not you had surrounds. i would invest in those as well. if you are gonna dish out the money for 2 subs, buy some surrounds also
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post #19 of 47 Old 12-31-2003, 01:41 AM
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Hawkson,

I've got damn near 7500 cubic feet in my room (~3500 in the listening area; stupid open floor plans!) and my pair of TN subs peg the SPL meter in the 110dB scale (at least 116dB C weighted, slow response) in Star Wars Episode II when the ship flys by and then explodes; I confess I have not done a flat-out SPL drag race to see max SPL since at this level of output it is largely a non-issue. A room that much smaller than mine should be no problem for a single TN with a 500W amp.

1750 cubic feet is considered "small" for a HT room. "Large" rooms are usually classified as being 3000 or more cubic feet. ;)

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post #20 of 47 Old 12-31-2003, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm going to go with the 16-46PC-Plus. Thanks for the info. I decided that it was easier to deal with a self-powered system, and I do have small animals that will tip the HSU.

Thanks again.
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post #21 of 47 Old 12-31-2003, 09:43 AM
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The Tn1220HO actually works quite well on it's side, where it cannot be tipped and can be hidden largely out of view. There is a reason why Hsu does not include built-in amps and grille in their cylindrical subs. They are designed for pure performance, while also minimizing sq feet of floorspace.
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post #22 of 47 Old 12-31-2003, 11:40 AM
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Quote:
There is a reason why Hsu does not include built-in amps and grille in their cylindrical subs. They are designed for pure performance, while also minimizing sq feet of floorspace.
So by that reasoning any powered cylinder sub with a grill is inferior?......... guess there's only one way to do something right, thank God you got Jesus in your corner and he speaks to you...........:rolleyes: And "coloration" with a grill on sub is almost laughable....man I thought I was anal. My PC+ sounded no different with the grill on or off, but maybe that was my lead ears.
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post #23 of 47 Old 12-31-2003, 11:48 AM
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I do not recall saying anything about inferiority, but rather a more purist design philosophy that is followed by Hsu with the cylinder sub. If you compare in person the cabinet resonance of the Tn1220HO with some other subs, than you will get a better idea of how little flex and resonance there really is with the Tn (and even the VTF for that matter).
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post #24 of 47 Old 12-31-2003, 12:25 PM
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markotran- TROLL

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Jealous of my speakers?

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post #25 of 47 Old 12-31-2003, 12:29 PM
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This thread is so much like another one here, makes one wonder... :D

~Dr. Spike
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post #26 of 47 Old 12-31-2003, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by fatbottom
markotran- TROLL
Why is he a troll? Because he doesn't share the same opinions as some others?

In any of his posts in this thread he has not written anything derogatory about any brand.

-curtis

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post #27 of 47 Old 12-31-2003, 12:46 PM
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fatbottom- TROLL^n? :rolleyes:

Most of my comments are based on fundamentally-sound principles of acoustics, physics, professional testing. FWIW
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post #28 of 47 Old 12-31-2003, 12:59 PM
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The way I see it, we threw out some info, the poster made his decision.............this thread should should be done. The name-calling was unnecessary.

tke743 hope you enjoy your sub!
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post #29 of 47 Old 12-31-2003, 01:44 PM
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i learned more from markotran's posts about the TN1220, and for that matter subs in general then i did from your post fatbottom

mirrors dont lie, they are only a reflection of the truth
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post #30 of 47 Old 12-31-2003, 01:52 PM
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I have to second cschang here... Obviously things can get out of hand very quickly in a situation like this but it was handled without any name calling or bashing. Let them say what they want as long as it isn't attacking someone or brand or THEIR choice. Remember folks this is a place to help others and everyone out there will have different tastes than you do... Happy New Year to all and I hope we can get this forum back to where it used to be.. It used to be a very helpful and static free place to get info and help.
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