Why have a subwoofer shootout ? - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1163 Old 02-09-2004, 06:33 AM
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Dexter Gordon "Go"
Miles Davis, any newer "best of" release with "So What"
John Coltrane, "Giant Steps"
I know Miles Davis is on SACD. I'm not sure of the others. These discs are pretty standard Jazz CDs for any collection.
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post #92 of 1163 Old 02-09-2004, 06:53 AM
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Big Phat Band is KILLER! They don't hold back on the upright bass and the drums ring like your in the booth. Makes you want to `crank it up!' Good Mix - Good choice

E
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post #93 of 1163 Old 02-09-2004, 06:56 AM
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Reference Recordings RR-62 CD : Frederick Fennell : Dallas Wind Symphony
" BEACHCOMBER "......... A MUST HAVE , FOR WHAT IS BEING ATTEMPTED HERE.

SO..... still , no classical selections from the audience ;)

Most people don't know what they want...but, they're pretty sure they haven't got it. ©

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post #94 of 1163 Old 02-09-2004, 08:08 AM - Thread Starter
 
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At one time, We could listen to Jazz/classical for hours... then we started having children... and slowly home theatre became more common... from 1991 to 1995, we went to 90 % + home theatre...

Now, with the oldest at 12 and the youngest at 7... home theatre is starting to back off a bit...

It is time to rebuild the old Classical/Jazz collection

It is wierd how many discs can disappear in three moves... :rolleyes:

I am actually enjoying the music part of this process than anything else...
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post #95 of 1163 Old 02-09-2004, 12:32 PM
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Try Saent Sants Symphony #3 RCA BSO with Charles Munch
Also Jean Gilleau Pictures at An Exhibition on Dorian.

Give me ten men like Clouseau, and I could destroy the world.
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post #96 of 1163 Old 02-09-2004, 03:31 PM
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post #97 of 1163 Old 02-09-2004, 04:12 PM
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Interesting choices - esp. Pictures at an Exhibition - I agree some classical would round out things a bit. Wish I had a lead on a good recording of Prokofiev.

I'll add a tidbit on my Mk2 just in. Since this is my first HSU, I have nothing to reference other than last years SVS Ultra with a Crown K1. So far just listening to DVDA. On Steely's Everything Must Go, the speed of the bass (ele bass & kick) is fast. I just pulled a cheap 12, so this was the first thing I noticed. I wouln't comment on how real it sounds - to each his own - but for 7 bills and what I remember from my SV, I'd say Damn, not bad. Not bad at all. I'll need days to gather a real opinion, but it passed the first few moments test.
Excellent shipping box and a nice set of heavy spikes.
I'm not really calibrated yet and I can only get the volume to 2-3 before it gets out of control. Seems to have plenty of power, so I'll back down the receiver and break out the ol ShakMtr. My room is 12X25X8 with a skewed front wall (sub corner angles back for an extra 6 feet behind the TV) so my room gain is higher than normal.
Tonight will be some fun stuff - Matrix2, perhaps the sock explosion in Monsters Inc. I really remember what the SV did with this hit, so I'm curious.

Craig
Hope it's OK to add this here
E
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post #98 of 1163 Old 02-09-2004, 05:20 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Those Brass feet (way too nice to call spikes) are a really nice touch... And The Hsu's packaging (ok... and the SVS...lol) is great !

THE EARLY SESSION FOR MONDAY WAS MUSIC ONLY... AND NOW WE ARE GETTING SERIOUS !!!

We ran the gamut from Stanley Clarke... (Best of... including Wild Dog, Mothership Connection, Hello Jeff... etc..

Mercury Living Presence CD of Tchaikovsky... 1812 Overture... and yes...

CANNONS...:D

And We opened with the DVD Audio (Hell Freezes Over) of Hotel California...

Stanley Clarke... Sub "A" sounded much deeper, tighter, and more palpable. I heard two different Jazz Quartets this weekend... one with bass guitar, the other with Cello, and have a pretty good reference.... and while Sub "B" was pretty good, it was a let down after "A"

On Mothership connection, there is very rapid bass with drum... and really hard for a sub to keep up with. I got the feeling both were struggling with this cut... but "A" kept its composure, while "B" lost it.

For most of the disc, "B" could keep up in the mid and upper bass, and over all did a nice job... but the deep stuff it got a bit one- note... and lacked power, where "A" had a much easier time.

On Stanley Clark - "A" gets a solid 8... "B" gets a "6"

1812 OVERTURE... What a great recording... over 40 years old and still fantastic...

Again, "A" was able to handle the cannonshots with DEEP VISCERAL Bass... and "B", while nice... sounded like a smaller cannon going off from further away. Both subs were equal on the musket shots... and they are a great contrast to the cannons... upper bass rapidity mixed with deep bass power...

The score on 1812 ? ... "A" gets a 9 ... "B" gets a 7

Finally... Hotel California... The first disc played... and the easiest on the subs. Compared to the Clarke and 1812 discs, this was child's play... Both handled the drum fairly easily.... but "A" was deeper and more relaxed...

"A" gets an 8... "B" gets a "7"
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post #99 of 1163 Old 02-09-2004, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Kyle will be sending me an OAK Finished (for my wife) , Tumult Based Denali Subwoofer for the shootout...

It will be here likely by the end of next week... (somewhere around the 20th)...

This was a collaberation between Kyle's Acoustic-Vision and Dan Wiggin's Adire... After talking to Dan today, He agreed the Tumult based Denali was the better choice than a pair of Dharman's...
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post #100 of 1163 Old 02-09-2004, 05:32 PM - Thread Starter
 
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YES, I am buying the sub... But we will be back to 5 subs in the house... with a total of $5600 (appx.) in them... not too bad...
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post #101 of 1163 Old 02-09-2004, 05:47 PM
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I wan't whatever Job Craig has!
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post #102 of 1163 Old 02-09-2004, 06:23 PM
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Craig, how far away are the subs from your listening position? I thought I remembered you saying they were behind the sofa. Is the same sofa you are sitting in?
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post #103 of 1163 Old 02-09-2004, 06:26 PM
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Craig contacted me and asked if I was interested and after a bit of thought I agreed, plus his wife said she wants an Oak sub so thats what she'll get :) It will also be interesting to see if they prefer the sound of a a PR based sub or a ported sub.

Also, because of a price drop on the amplifier used in the Denali the regular price has been reduced from $1900 to $1800. That is not because of this test or a limited time offer but the regular price.

All subs in the shootout are excellent performers just as Craig mentioned on the phone and I dont see a real "loser" in this shootout.
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post #104 of 1163 Old 02-09-2004, 06:26 PM - Thread Starter
 
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About one foot from the back of the sofa... and roughly 4 feet from the listening position...
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post #105 of 1163 Old 02-09-2004, 06:30 PM - Thread Starter
 
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The subs here now are really good...

And I contacted HIM first... not the other way around...

The last passive radiator sub I had was the Sunfire True (yes, I fell for the Sensible Sound saying it did 114 db at 20 hz...)...
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post #106 of 1163 Old 02-09-2004, 07:05 PM
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Just tuned into this thread, Read them all (105 postings) in one sitting (over a half hour) and loved it. It reminded me of a thread on the Hsu forum where someone talked about wanting to do a similar comparison. Unfortunately, the guy got flamed real bad. Nice to see the upbeat commentary here. It is a treat to read.

On the classical and Jazz side, have you considered "Bolero" (Ravel), bump bump! Or any of Charley Byrd's or Lucinda Almeida's guitars.

A question that no one mentioned, and I am not sure that it applies, but does "break in" time apply? Will the sound change as the subs "break in" or will the end result be the same since they will be on for almost the same time?
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post #107 of 1163 Old 02-09-2004, 07:12 PM
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One other cut you might consider is the Wynton Marsalis "Standard Time Vol 3" -- in particular the first track "In the court of King Oliver". Nice bass by Reginald Veal on that track.
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post #108 of 1163 Old 02-09-2004, 07:20 PM
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adm

<<<On the classical and Jazz side, have you considered "Bolero" (Ravel), bump bump! Or any of Charley Byrd's or Lucinda Almeida's guitars.>>>

Just in case anyone wants to do a search on Almeida, his first name is Laurindo. I still have a few LP's by this guitarrist. One of my favorits is a colaboration with alto sax Bud Shank. That LP started the Bosanova movement long time ago!
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post #109 of 1163 Old 02-09-2004, 07:24 PM - Thread Starter
 
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I will look into those two discs...

And on a side note... I just rode my exercise bike for an hour, while listening to Pete Townsend's White City CD... on the Infinity IRS Sigmas... rated flat to 28 hz with a pair of 12 inch Watkins bass units...

They are not even close to either the Hsu or the SVS (they are in a different room) ... I am trying to get a couple hours per week listening to the Infinities just to remind me what "normal" bass is like...

For under $1400 delivered, these subs are amazingly good...

And the White City is good enough to check out with the subs, too... a great kick drum, and lots of upper bass... to get more feedback on how these subs handle that...
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post #110 of 1163 Old 02-09-2004, 07:43 PM
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Craig, how long are you planning on doing these comparisons before revealing which was which. I'm sitting here biting my nails trying to decide which would work for me and this shootout would be really helpful. Thanks for all the work that you've put into this. This thread will help a good many people.

I want my HDTV!
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post #111 of 1163 Old 02-09-2004, 07:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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This is work ? Wow... I thought I was having fun...:p

When will this be done ? Hard to say... probably another week of listening at least...

What subs are you looking at ?
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post #112 of 1163 Old 02-09-2004, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by craigsub
Kyle will be sending me an OAK Finished (for my wife) , Tumult Based Denali Subwoofer for the shootout...

It will be here likely by the end of next week... (somewhere around the 20th)...
Craig,

NIIIICE! I can't wait to hear your impressions!


Quote:
It will also be interesting to see if they prefer the sound of a a PR based sub or a ported sub.
Kyle,

I'm interested in this as well. I love my PR based Custom Mini-Thunder for both music and movies! My brother or myself will be ordering his Denali shortly, for his new HT that I emailed you about late last week!

Best Regards,
Patrick

"Your Life Is Your Message"
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post #113 of 1163 Old 02-09-2004, 10:30 PM
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Kyle

Quote:
plus his wife said she wants an Oak sub so thats what she'll get It will also be interesting to see if they prefer the sound of a a PR based sub or a ported sub.
Just had a look at your site what colour is the DENALI you have on display? I am curious as to what the sub will look like in oak!
Next question is there that much of a difference in sound between a ported & PR based sub?


craigsub

Great thing you are doing here, at the very least it will give potential buyers an end users personal insight as to how the different subs sound. What they take away from it will be up to them.

"I may not always be RIGHT, but I'm never WRONG"
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post #114 of 1163 Old 02-09-2004, 10:44 PM
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Spearmint,
The picture on the site shows a Denali in Cherry.

The sound of a PR and ported sub are really quite close and the frequency response is almost identical until tuning point when the PR sub will drop off quicker, but there is a slight sonic difference. Its a bit hard to describe and some people like it better while others dont but its all subjective as all speakers are :)
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post #115 of 1163 Old 02-10-2004, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
The picture on the site shows a Denali in Cherry
Looks GREAT in CHERRY, can't wait to see it in OAK!!

Sorry if off topic guys....... back to your EARS craigsub


Dick

"I may not always be RIGHT, but I'm never WRONG"
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post #116 of 1163 Old 02-10-2004, 05:26 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Sometime over the next few weeks, I will finally get a digital camera and post pics...

And Kyle uses a cabinet maker for his finishes, my bride will be happy having something that matches her house...
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post #117 of 1163 Old 02-10-2004, 07:18 AM
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Craig,

Would you agree it's important to remember that no matter which sub is the "winner," it doesn't mean the others are "bad"?

I go through that all the time with Consumer Reports. I think "well, I want the 'best' in the category," and then I realize that the next 8 items listed are also in the "very good" column, which frees me to make my decision based on my wallet.

I happen to own a sub made by one these manufacturers, and whatever the results of this comparison are, I doubt they will make me think my sub is "bad" because my ears tell me differently.

Am I belaboring too obvious a point? If so, please excuse me.

Jack
 

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post #118 of 1163 Old 02-10-2004, 07:35 AM - Thread Starter
 
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Blind testing is unusual. When we own components, we always know what we are listening to. Here I don't, but after roughly 10 hours of serious listening, I am learning when I am listening to a specific sub. One of the two is shaping up to sound "better" than the other... I think. Though I may end up surprising myself and realizing that it was still a mix...(that is where you all get to tell me I have more money than brains/ears...lol)

One sub set up seems to be deeper and more relaxed on most music... So, is it the SVS, with larger ports and cabinet ? ... Is it Hsu, with an amp that is specifically eq'd for this driver and enclosure...?

Friday night, When the Hsu's first arrived, I had already heard the pb2-+ for three nights, and was really pleased at how good it is...

So I fire up the Hsu, put on some music... and again, they were a total knockout...

Unlike most contests... when the initial blind test is done, and the "winner" is picked... or we discover it is impossible to pick a winner...It is then over... but with this we move to the next step...

Tweaking each sub for different rooms... etc...

Doing "non-blind" listening sessions... and seeing what can be learned...For example, let's say the Hsu is the "winner", IF I listen to the SVS for a solid week, then hook the Hsu back up... will me ears be trained to prefer the SVS ?

Rijax, The best things I can say now...

1. Both systems are great
2. I told my wife to pay the charge on both... they are staying...
3. See 1....
:p
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post #119 of 1163 Old 02-10-2004, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by craigsub
One sub set up seems to be deeper and more relaxed on most music... So, is it the SVS, with larger ports and cabinet ? ... Is it Hsu, with an amp that is specifically eq'd for this driver and enclosure...?
PB2+ is equalized a bit differently for each subsonic setting on the amp, so... :)

BTW, darn do it... Fire up HSUs, SVS, Adires... everything at once, full throttle, I wanna see shattered windows and blown 30A fuses!!! :D
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post #120 of 1163 Old 02-10-2004, 08:43 AM - Thread Starter
 
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So no... I will not blow up the house....:p

From my conversations with Tom V., There is the Subsonic filter that changes with each setting... 25, 20 or 16 hz... but that is to eliminate the pb2+ from trying to handle bass below its tuning frequency, not to eq the driver...

The Hsu uses an overdamped driver which purposely rolls off in the deep bass, and they EQ it to flatten the driver's room response out...and it ALSO has the subsonic EQ...which changes depending on Max extension mode (which I am using now) and max output...

Now before anyone thinks I am promoting either design... these are inherent in each sub, not me saying I like one over the other...

And the Denali has a fixed subsonic at 17 Hz....

manufacturer's clarification welcome here...
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