Why have a subwoofer shootout ? - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 1163 Old 02-12-2004, 09:27 AM
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I saw your system nice!

I always liked Mcintosh, and it's cool how they kept the retro look with the new technologies out now.

Tee

"Enjoy Movies & Music"


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post #182 of 1163 Old 02-12-2004, 11:10 AM
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I am eager to hear your thoughts on the Denali.
If I didn't just score a great deal on a N.O.S Contrabass, the Denali would be my pick for a brand-new sub. I really like everything I have been reading about the Adire Tumult driver combined with some PRs. The built quality & size of the Denali looks very good too.

- Andy
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post #183 of 1163 Old 02-12-2004, 11:45 AM
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Quote:
Nice to see you here... You are too smart to have taken what I said an twisted it.... ... This is off topic, but you asked for it...lol

I did not say "let her shop" ... I said "let her shop guilt free" ... and she obviously does the same for me... She is an attorney, and quite accomplished in her field, but she still loves it when I tell her to "Buy that outfit, painting, necklace..." etc... and I don't make her feel bad for having done so...
Craig, I think you're splitting hairs, but no need to bore the rest of the folks with this OT conversation ;)

So hurry the heck up and get this night on the town out of your system so that you can back to sub stuff :D
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post #184 of 1163 Old 02-12-2004, 12:29 PM
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Specs on Sunday night sounds great! I'll be back from California Sunday evening. I am dying to know if totally loving my VTF-3 Mk2 is justified. LOL

This thread is great, but I am really looking forward too the results even though it sounds like thre aren't any losers.

Thanks for having so much fun on our behalf!

Rich
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post #185 of 1163 Old 02-12-2004, 01:24 PM
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Andy,

I've built several sealed Tumults for customers and can only imagine what they'd be capable of with PR's! :)

Craig,

I'm all for measurements as well. BTW, be careful of Ellen. She's a real picture whore and will pester the hell out of you until you comply! ;)

Brian Bunge
RAD Home Theater
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post #186 of 1163 Old 02-12-2004, 04:34 PM
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So are you still doing that blind testing? Open your eyes already! :D I'm not a big fan of that because it is maybe too scientific for what is just a hobby of ours! Also, our senses are often not very good at resolving differences unless we can repeatedly flip back and forth between a sample clip.

So are you going to attempt to test the VTF-3 MKIIs with all ports open vs the other with one port plugged?

One more point, the subwoofers that you measure (including Denali, etc) should be measured when placed in the same position. As an experiment, you could try at different locations too.
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post #187 of 1163 Old 02-12-2004, 05:45 PM
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On any given day our moods, energies, perceptions differ with or without the blind factor , not to mention the emotional responses one perceives on the playback material........

For audio on movies with revealing "KEY SCENES" ........turn off the video portion........easier on the brain and different perspective.

Let's not get too heavy here.......eh, :D

This is fun.......but no easy task !

Most people don't know what they want...but, they're pretty sure they haven't got it. ©

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post #188 of 1163 Old 02-13-2004, 09:54 AM - Thread Starter
 
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My Bride had a great time, dinner and drinks were a blast... ant the rest of the evening...

Subwoofers... Vinyl, That was heavy... you are warped, and we have to smoke some Cubans over Scotch sometime...

Personally, I have had enough blind testing, so this weekend We will do some non-blind stuff, some measurements, a couple drinks, and post the results... though not necessarily in that order...

To the Adire/Tumult guys... this looks like a hoot... based on the excursion and driver size, the Denali should have the same output as 6 + Sunfire Signatures.

For $1800 in a real wood finish, the Denali could be something special... and I will check on the reviews done on the Contrabass for methodology, and try to use the same criteria for some measurements...

Ellen the picture what ? Ellen, I never split hairs... I don't have the dexterity...:p
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post #189 of 1163 Old 02-13-2004, 10:12 AM
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I too can attest to the build quality of the Denali. I purchased all the components and box from Kyle and assembled, lined and tuned it myself. All I can say is WOW, and I am not easily impressed. I consult on home theater installs after hours and weekends. I have been involved in several very expensive installs including Wilson Audio when we were putting in WHAMs. This is one nice sub.

I am not finished tuning. The PRs take ~1.3lbs :eek: of weights for 18hz tuning. Anyway I no longer need a sub for my downstairs big screen :) and it is on the opposite side of the house!

Anxious to see how the comparison comes out. I can tell you there is allot of bass info I haven't heard before in every movie I watch at this point. I previously was using a dual 12" infinity sub. Have had Velodyne, B&W, etc.

I am probably considered a base nut but so far it looks like my sub shopping days are over for quite awhile!

MediaTK
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post #190 of 1163 Old 02-13-2004, 10:20 AM - Thread Starter
 
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That sounds interesting... Mediatk... How difficult was it to assemble ? Can you give a brief description ?

Kyle Richardson... Can a person interested in the Denali save money by assembling it him/her self ?

And Anybody who has some links to reviews on the Contrabass, please post it here... doing an apples to apples comparison seems like a good idea...
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post #191 of 1163 Old 02-13-2004, 10:26 AM
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I have been building speakers (including enclosures) for many years so I probably am not a very good judge for someone with little or no experience with this. At least for me it seemed like a total walk in the park :). BTW, you better have a strong back, this thing is a monster for its size. The most difficult part for most users will be making sure they have all the proper mounting hardware and getting the proper weighting for the PRs. Hardware is critical because this thing puts out allot of pressure! You could easily get leaks and end up with far less than good results.

I had Kyle router the enclosure for sub, PRs and amp. I would normally have done it myself but am much too busy with work right now.

Regarding $$, yes you can save several hundred this way. I bought Kyle's discounted package of Tumult and Keiga amp. Later I bought the rest.

I may be able to post some pics if I get any time this weekend. Family in town in addition to Valentine commitments :)

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post #192 of 1163 Old 02-13-2004, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
 
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The Hsu's will be tested with all ports open. The SVS with all open and one port plugged... Then some more measurements when asked for...

As far as different locations, that may take longer... but over the next couple of weeks.

The subs will be in the same spot, with the microphone one meter from the port side of both subs...

Maximum output will be at 5 % distortion, Since I don't have the luxury of blowing one up and returning it free....
:rolleyes:

The lowest frequency will be 16 hz... up to 63 hz
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post #193 of 1163 Old 02-13-2004, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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How does this sound... Over the weekend, We do the "un-blind" listening tests... then the measurements...

Once those are posted, and everyone can see the results... THEN we post the blind test results. It should be fun to find out how the blind hearing tests match up with both measured tests and listening where we know the subwoofer we are hearing...

Opinions ?
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post #194 of 1163 Old 02-13-2004, 01:00 PM
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This has been interesting. Thanks for doing it!

What you suggest sounds like a good idea as long as you don't know the results of the blind tests before you do the 'un-blind' tests. It will be 'entertaining' if un-blind you prefer sub a, but when blind it was sub B.

Kevin
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post #195 of 1163 Old 02-13-2004, 01:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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We have already posted each night's blind tests... and the subs for that test are still unknown (regarding which was which each night)

So, If we post the "un-blind" first... THEN the blind "results" are opened by my son, we will know for sure whether they two tests match, or not...

In other words,, If I prefer the SVS in "unblind" tests, and the Hsu in "blind" tests... well... let's say I hope you all are gentle...lol
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post #196 of 1163 Old 02-13-2004, 02:36 PM
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Craig, I just read all 10 pages of this. I'm excited to "hear" the Denali... Do you think the wife would spring for the Everest? That's what I would get :D

<---- basshead :D
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post #197 of 1163 Old 02-13-2004, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
 
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My friends have a threshhold about what they will and will not do... 200 pounds is the limit for what they will help me carry into the house...

besides... a pair of Denali would match a single Everest, for $1100 more... and when you consider buying a 1000x2 watt amp... it gets even closer ...

Not that I am planning that of course...;)
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post #198 of 1163 Old 02-13-2004, 02:55 PM
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Then you will have to take the amp out of it before you and your friends carry it in :D

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post #199 of 1163 Old 02-13-2004, 02:57 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Just how much does this thing weigh ?
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post #200 of 1163 Old 02-13-2004, 03:01 PM
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Just joshing with you a bit but true about the weight :)

The estimate is 215 but I can tell you it feels allot heavier than that when the feet aren't on it yet and you are trying to move it around on carpet!

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post #201 of 1163 Old 02-13-2004, 03:05 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Thanks, Mediatk... and that kind of humor is a good thing...

Did you get pictures yet ?
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post #202 of 1163 Old 02-13-2004, 03:15 PM
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No good pictures yet but here is a fair one. Keep in mind he (Kyle) has lots of finishes available. My decor dictated black. I had him put a satin black finish with all rounded corner (part of why it is sooo hard to move around).

Here is a picture of it next to one of my Magnepan MMGs in the rear. Sorry picture isn't better. Will find some time this weekend to get some more. Of course that is one of the side passives. This isn't a good location so far but has to stay until I can move some things.

Good time to have lots of friends that want to come watch a movie
LL

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post #203 of 1163 Old 02-13-2004, 03:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Where is Petre when we need him ? (does anyone else notice it looks like a really big Sunfire ???)

It looks really good... And earlier I asked about doing some listening with something like the MMG's and a good sub...

Do your MMG's "keep up" with the Denali ?
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post #204 of 1163 Old 02-13-2004, 03:26 PM
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OK, for reference sake I thought I would show you the front with a 4 D-cell mag light on top....

It is a good thing the maggies are in the rear because this thing will run right over them at high levels. Otherwise they work great together.

and, OK, that is a tiny mag light

I just thought you might want to see the Tumult as well.
LL

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post #205 of 1163 Old 02-13-2004, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Good looking sub... and when you think about the size... that driver covers more than twice the surface area of the Sunfire's 10 Signature's 10 inch Driver...

That is one BIG sub...

You say the Maggies are in the rear ? What is in the front ?
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post #206 of 1163 Old 02-13-2004, 03:47 PM
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Martin Logan Scenarios for now. Sold a larger set of MLs awhile back. These seem to work pretty well for now.

Martin Logan Info

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post #207 of 1163 Old 02-13-2004, 03:53 PM
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I am pretty much making a panel speaker freak after years of building my own. With this sub however I will probably end up going back to bigger MLs for the front.

Then the maggies and scenarios will have to fight it out for the rears :)

Can't wait to hear more about the test. So far it has been allot of fun experimenting with the Denali.

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post #208 of 1163 Old 02-13-2004, 03:53 PM - Thread Starter
 
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And I just happen to know a dealer who sells both the Klipschhorns I have now ... and the ML's...

Are you going to tell us what the "kit" price is on the Denali ? Or do we have to beg Kyle ?
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post #209 of 1163 Old 02-13-2004, 04:06 PM
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I know about the MSRP rules so I hope this doesn't get me into any heat. I think this is a little different than the reason the intended rule was made so here goes. I consider this a "kit" as you mentioned.

Well, let see, I just checked his site and he has the Tumult, Keiga, parts kit on sale for $799 still.

I think the box is $320 (with pretty much any finish) and the passives are $125 each. You need the 1600 gram passives.

Other than that you will need to buy some polyfil and some weights for the PRs, also some good heavy duty speaker wire.

That should be pretty much be everything. Let's get ready to... I won't go there.

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post #210 of 1163 Old 02-13-2004, 04:11 PM
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Craig,

Don't take this as pressure but you are holding up my purchase of a new subwoofer!

Your efforts to date are appreciated and I look forward to your actual reactions to the subwoofers and correlation with the "blind" tests. Right now I am very heavily leaning toward the SVS PB2 because my space is 38 by 16 by 8.5 and has large openings to a space equally large and the esxtra power with the single unit appeals to me. I want to see your reactions before I finalize my decision. RICK

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