SVS PB12 - Plus vs Velodyne SPL-1200 II - AVS Forum
Forum Jump: 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
post #1 of 83 Old 11-21-2004, 12:13 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mgamon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Northridge, CA
Posts: 81
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Need a wood-finished sub for WAF. Have 2000 cu-ft room. Almost all usage will be movie viewing vs very little music listening. These 2 subs have entirely different design approaches, but both seem to be well regarded. SVS is much larger, ported, less amp power. Velodyne is super small, closed box, but with very high amp power.

Which sub has higher output at driver bottoming level (regardless of distortion)? In other words, most woofage for movie low freq effects. Which sub has lower bass extension? I suspect I'll get a lot of SVS recommendations - any Velodyne fans out there? Any other wood-finished subs below $1200 I should consider?

Max
mgamon is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #2 of 83 Old 11-21-2004, 01:16 PM
DMF
AVS Special Member
 
DMF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7,811
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
"most woofage"? You been reading some of the other threads here? ;)

No matter where you go. ... There you are.
DMF is offline  
post #3 of 83 Old 11-21-2004, 02:04 PM
Member
 
Tarron_D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by mgamon
SVS is much larger, ported, less amp power. Velodyne is super small, closed box, but with very high amp power.
Max
IMO, based on those descriptions, the SVS is the better sub. By having a larger box, the sub requires less power to drive to the same volume. And the SVS is ported, so it has a volume advantage there too. The SVS WILL be the louder subwoofer. SVS has great extension and will almost certainly be the best choice for your HT. I have not heard the Velodyne, but again, based on those descriptions I would purchase the SVS. (Which I did, I have the PB12 in my HT.)
Tarron_D is offline  
post #4 of 83 Old 11-21-2004, 02:56 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mgamon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Northridge, CA
Posts: 81
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
DMF -

Yes, woofage was coined by someone else in an earlier thread. Seems very descriptive.

Tarron_D

Your answer is about what I expected to hear. Are you using the PB12 as a table, or is it by itself? Where is it located in your room?

Still waiting for any Velodyne proponents, or other options.

Max
mgamon is offline  
post #5 of 83 Old 11-21-2004, 04:43 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jake Sm's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: american heartland
Posts: 3,779
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
If you don't need the sub to be small, then don't look for a small sub...the high power of the Velo amplifier is to overcome small box size...if your into Ht and don't care as much about musicallity then go SVS.

Seeking a speaker recomendation? Compare for yourself or be swayed by others who hear differantly, or by marketing, or just save time and get the cheapest , nicest looking, or smallest.
Jake Sm is offline  
post #6 of 83 Old 11-21-2004, 04:52 PM
Member
 
Tarron_D's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 110
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I have it about 4 feet from the front right corner, against the right wall. It sounds great there.
Tarron_D is offline  
post #7 of 83 Old 11-21-2004, 08:17 PM
AVS Club Gold
 
Kipp Jones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Posts: 11,781
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 11
I have both the SVS and a Velo, while both are great, I would suggest going with the SVS.

Kipp
Are you boozen & cruisin the AVS? Join us here ---> http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8&page=1&pp=60 good times! www.illinoiscarry.org www.nra.org
Kipp Jones is offline  
post #8 of 83 Old 11-21-2004, 09:05 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mgamon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Northridge, CA
Posts: 81
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Thanks guys - I hear ya.

Max
mgamon is offline  
post #9 of 83 Old 11-21-2004, 09:57 PM
DMF
AVS Special Member
 
DMF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7,811
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Gosh help me, I'm starting to appreciate NightRain. Is SVS the *only* solution to every application?

No matter where you go. ... There you are.
DMF is offline  
post #10 of 83 Old 11-22-2004, 05:27 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Jack Gilvey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Jersey,USA
Posts: 6,209
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 11
Quote:
if your into Ht and don't care as much about musicallity then go SVS.
What's this "musicality" that the SVS lacks?

Quote:
Is SVS the *only* solution to every application?
Probably not. Informed, experienced, well-founded disagreements are as enjoyable as they are rare. The case for the Velodyne awaits a spokesperson...

Jack Gilvey
SVS Customer Service

Jack Gilvey is online now  
post #11 of 83 Old 11-22-2004, 06:06 AM
AVS Special Member
 
capecodorthopod's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: cape cod
Posts: 1,253
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
There are several subs that would fit the bill but I can't think of any under $1200 other than the PB12, anyone else?
capecodorthopod is offline  
post #12 of 83 Old 11-22-2004, 08:16 AM
Advanced Member
 
ptaaty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Bremerton, WA
Posts: 671
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
HSU VTF3 would...do they still have the wood finish version avail?

One thing is troubling about your request....that you are consideing both :) If you have room and don't mind having a larger sub, there isn't much need for the SPL1000. It is a great sub for the small size it requires but you might as well get something that isn't forced to duke it out with physics!!

Paul Taatjes
ptaaty is offline  
post #13 of 83 Old 11-22-2004, 08:18 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cschang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 14,730
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 70
Quote:
Originally posted by capecodorthopod
There are several subs that would fit the bill but I can't think of any under $1200 other than the PB12, anyone else?
Sure...the Hsu VTF-3RMK2. Rosewood finish, flat to 18hz. There is suppose to be a maple finish available soon as well.
http://www.hsustore.com/vtf3.html

The ACI Titan is also a viable option:
http://audioc.com/speakers1/titan/titan.htm

-curtis

Owner of Wave Crest Audio
Volunteer Mod at the Ascend Acoustics Forum
Like all things on the Internet, do your research, as forums have a good amount of misinformation.
Help beat breast cancer!

cschang is offline  
post #14 of 83 Old 11-22-2004, 09:17 AM
DMF
AVS Special Member
 
DMF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 7,811
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Or two $600 subs. There are several arguments for preferring two subs over one.

No matter where you go. ... There you are.
DMF is offline  
post #15 of 83 Old 11-22-2004, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
Member
 
mgamon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Northridge, CA
Posts: 81
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
ptaaty -

The SVS would be a bit of a squeeze - would probably have to use it as an end table. The Velodyne is small enough to fit into a corner. But yeah, I will probably go for the larger size & make it fit.

cschang -

Hmm - a couple more options. Like the look & price of the Hsu especially. Thanks.

Max
mgamon is offline  
post #16 of 83 Old 11-22-2004, 01:33 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cschang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 14,730
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 70
mgamon....you are in Northridge, and Hsu is in Anaheim....you can make an appointment and see/listen to all they have.

On the ACI...you have plenty of finish options.

-curtis

Owner of Wave Crest Audio
Volunteer Mod at the Ascend Acoustics Forum
Like all things on the Internet, do your research, as forums have a good amount of misinformation.
Help beat breast cancer!

cschang is offline  
post #17 of 83 Old 11-23-2004, 10:09 AM
Advanced Member
 
ptaaty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Bremerton, WA
Posts: 671
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
well some of your decision should be made based on available location and how well that spot performs for you.

what if the only place the SVS fits has a horrible response curve in your room? but the velo can be placed in an optimal spot.....it doesn't matter if the svs is the best sub in the world then does it :)

when forced with less than optimal placement options, I try to aim for as flat as possible with only one large peak or a coupe peaks...then use a param eq to remove it.

Paul Taatjes
ptaaty is offline  
post #18 of 83 Old 11-23-2004, 12:30 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jesse S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, eh?
Posts: 3,503
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
The PB12-plus/2 doesn't come in wood finish, only black. The PB12-ultra/2 comes in wood, for $2399.

Performance-wise, 2 of the velo 1200's wouldn't match the PB12-plus/2. If you need wood finish get the HSU vtf-3 for $899. It won't even come close to the PB12-plus/2 but it will look nice and be easy to move around and position.
Jesse S is offline  
post #19 of 83 Old 11-23-2004, 12:50 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cschang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 14,730
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 70
Quote:
Originally posted by Jesse S
It won't even come close to the PB12-plus/2......
In terms of shear output, that is correct, but in terms of sound quality, that is a different ball game. Performance isn't all about output.

His room is small enough that the VTF-3 will have PLENTY of headroom.

-curtis

Owner of Wave Crest Audio
Volunteer Mod at the Ascend Acoustics Forum
Like all things on the Internet, do your research, as forums have a good amount of misinformation.
Help beat breast cancer!

cschang is offline  
post #20 of 83 Old 11-23-2004, 01:28 PM
AVS Special Member
 
plasmamaniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Peachtree City, Ga. (25 Miles South of Atlanta)
Posts: 2,323
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
I am getting ready at this very minute to call SVS and order the PB12 Ultra/2. I was going to get the PB12 Plus/2 but I just received a $4,000 check that I have been waiting for about 6 months, so I have received permission from the Wife Factor, my most Significant Other, it's like getting a blessing from the Pope, to buy the Ultra/2. I can't wait to get it. I toyed around with getting the B12-Plus/4 but I think it would be overkill. So I have an 18 X 16 foot room opening to a kitchen which is a little larger than my Den so I think the Ultra/2 should suffice. It also has PEQ which helps to make adjustments for room acoustics deficiencies. So Max go for the Plus/2. From what I hear you will love it. I have had several people PM me about their Plus/2 and Ultra/2 and they have all been very positive in their experiences with those 2 subs and the people at SVS. Good Luck.
plasmamaniac is offline  
post #21 of 83 Old 11-23-2004, 10:23 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jesse S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, eh?
Posts: 3,503
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
Originally posted by cschang
In terms of shear output, that is correct, but in terms of sound quality, that is a different ball game. Performance isn't all about output.

His room is small enough that the VTF-3 will have PLENTY of headroom.
Maybe in your opinion. Edward J M on HTF preferred the PB2+ to dual VTF-3's. Personally I call 1 vtf-3 not even close to "plenty of headroom". I have a 20-39cs and a 16-46cs+ in a 10x12x8 room and I can still bring them to their knees on some material. Output (for HT) is half of performance. If a sub can't put out the SPL's from 15-25hz then who cares how good the sound quality is?


Plasmaniac-

Good choice in my opinion. The B4 has a big edge in SPL but the Ultra drivers sound significantly better than the ISD and Plus drivers. I've heard all 3 in several setups and the Ultras are much better. In the 20hz tune you will be hitting some intense SPL's at low distortion (think 115db+ @20hz at your seat). You will love it for music too, great pitch definition and extension.
Jesse S is offline  
post #22 of 83 Old 11-23-2004, 10:32 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cschang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 14,730
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 70
Quote:
Originally posted by Jesse S
Maybe in your opinion. Edward J M on HTF preferred the PB2+ to dual VTF-3's. Personally I call 1 vtf-3 not even close to "plenty of headroom". I have a 20-39cs and a 16-46cs+ in a 10x12x8 room and I can still bring them to their knees on some material. Output (for HT) is half of performance. If a sub can't put out the SPL's from 15-25hz then who cares how good the sound quality is?
Edward never tested VTF-3's as far as I know. I know Craig did...but he also got rid of his PB2+ in favor of somethingelse.

I have a VTF-3 in a 14x18x9 room...and can't come close to killing it. I have also directly compared it to a 20-39PC+ and PB12+.....can't kill those in my room either. Maybe there is an issue with your cs and cs+.

If a sub doesn't have good sound quality, who cares how low it can go?

Yes...we have different opinions, I will take sound quality over SPL.

-curtis

Owner of Wave Crest Audio
Volunteer Mod at the Ascend Acoustics Forum
Like all things on the Internet, do your research, as forums have a good amount of misinformation.
Help beat breast cancer!

cschang is offline  
post #23 of 83 Old 11-24-2004, 03:47 AM
AVS Special Member
 
Jesse S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, eh?
Posts: 3,503
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Quote:
If a sub doesn't have good sound quality, who cares how low it can go?
Well, they go together so we can do the tit for tat all day.

Quote:
I have a VTF-3 in a 14x18x9 room...and can't come close to killing it. I have also directly compared it to a 20-39PC+ and PB12+.....can't kill those in my room either. Maybe there is an issue with your cs and cs+.
What is your definition of headroom? A vtf-3 can do about 105db @20hz. That's 0 headroom even if you always listen at -10 of reference.

My definition of "plenty of headroom" is a sub that can do 120db at 20hz. That way when it hits 115db the distortion is nice and low, not tainted with harmonics. The only problem here is your concept of what is plenty.

As far as sound quality goes, anyone with good hearing (and sense), will agree that the similarly priced SVS and HSU subs sound more alike than different.

Each has certain advantages that will appeal to each buyer. Anyone that says one is much better than the other isn't worth listening to.
Jesse S is offline  
post #24 of 83 Old 11-24-2004, 04:48 AM
AVS Special Member
 
plasmamaniac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Peachtree City, Ga. (25 Miles South of Atlanta)
Posts: 2,323
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Well, I just ordered the PB12 Ultra/2 and it should be here by Monday. I will set it up on the Auralex SubDude which really helped reduce vibrations with my RSW-15 so we will see what effects it will have on the Ultra. I will have to spend a couple of days calibrating it but I can't wait to play with the PEQ. Has anybody used the PEQ to help calibrate their sub? I guess you can set it to make up for room deficiencies at various Hz levels according to the downloaded manual from SVS. I need to buy some DVDs to test it with. They have a ton of them that they recommend.
plasmamaniac is offline  
post #25 of 83 Old 11-24-2004, 08:07 AM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cschang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 14,730
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 70
Quote:
Originally posted by Jesse S
What is your definition of headroom? A vtf-3 can do about 105db @20hz. That's 0 headroom even if you always listen at -10 of reference.

My definition of "plenty of headroom" is a sub that can do 120db at 20hz. That way when it hits 115db the distortion is nice and low, not tainted with harmonics. The only problem here is your concept of what is plenty.
OK...that's fair Jesse. So, in your eyes, a sub that can not do 120dB at 20hz is not good enough? The reason I ask is because according to Edward's test, the PB2-Ultra can't even do it.

Quote:
Each has certain advantages that will appeal to each buyer. Anyone that says one is much better than the other isn't worth listening to.
I am in total agreement with that.....but isn't that what you were saying?

-curtis

Owner of Wave Crest Audio
Volunteer Mod at the Ascend Acoustics Forum
Like all things on the Internet, do your research, as forums have a good amount of misinformation.
Help beat breast cancer!

cschang is offline  
post #26 of 83 Old 11-24-2004, 04:22 PM
AVS Special Member
 
Jesse S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Toronto, eh?
Posts: 3,503
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Edward J M measured 20 Hz: 102.8 dB (9.4% THD amp limited) 2m distance groundplane. Inside that's going to increase about 13-18db with boundary and room gain. I would call 116-120 sufficient "headroom" for most.

1 vtf-3 does ~105db @20hz. "Headroom" is having a 6'6 person in a car without touching the roof. 105db is a car that's only high enough for a 5'6 person :)

I never said SVS was much better than HSU. Nightrain is the one bandying that nonsense about. I also think SVS and HSU are both superior to Paradigm and that burns him up to no end :D
Jesse S is offline  
post #27 of 83 Old 11-24-2004, 04:34 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
thebland's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: Detroit, Michigan USA
Posts: 23,627
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 81 Post(s)
Liked: 91
Forget these wimpy internet subs..go for the He-Man Velodyne:D !!

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
thebland is offline  
post #28 of 83 Old 11-24-2004, 05:13 PM
AVS Addicted Member
 
cschang's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Manhattan Beach, CA
Posts: 14,730
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 70
Quote:
Originally posted by Jesse S
Edward J M measured 20 Hz: 102.8 dB (9.4% THD amp limited) 2m distance groundplane. Inside that's going to increase about 13-18db with boundary and room gain. I would call 116-120 sufficient "headroom" for most.

1 vtf-3 does ~105db @20hz. "Headroom" is having a 6'6 person in a car without touching the roof. 105db is a car that's only high enough for a 5'6 person :)

I never said SVS was much better than HSU. Nightrain is the one bandying that nonsense about. I also think SVS and HSU are both superior to Paradigm and that burns him up to no end :D
I see Jesse....but I can't find that number from Edward, and where are you getting that number for the Hsu? Is the Hsu number in room?

Same question as before....if it can not hit 115dB at 20hz in room...it is not good enough for you or most people?

Your post earlier said "it won't even come close". Doesn't imply the opposite of what Nightrain states, and that one is "much better" than the other?

-curtis

Owner of Wave Crest Audio
Volunteer Mod at the Ascend Acoustics Forum
Like all things on the Internet, do your research, as forums have a good amount of misinformation.
Help beat breast cancer!

cschang is offline  
post #29 of 83 Old 11-24-2004, 06:39 PM
Moderator
 
Woodrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 6,671
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally posted by plasmamaniac
Well, I just ordered the PB12 Ultra/2 and it should be here by Monday. I will set it up on the Auralex SubDude which really helped reduce vibrations with my RSW-15 so we will see what effects it will have on the Ultra. I will have to spend a couple of days calibrating it but I can't wait to play with the PEQ. Has anybody used the PEQ to help calibrate their sub? I guess you can set it to make up for room deficiencies at various Hz levels according to the downloaded manual from SVS. I need to buy some DVDs to test it with. They have a ton of them that they recommend.
It could arrive sooner than you think.:)

I ordered on Sunday and BAX attempted delivery tonight. I didn't hear the doorbell because the AVM-30 I ordered three weeks ago was delivered today. How was I supposed to keep the volume low on the first night???

I'm out of luck until Friday.
Woodrow is offline  
post #30 of 83 Old 11-24-2004, 06:45 PM
Moderator
 
Woodrow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Tulsa, OK
Posts: 6,671
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked: 12
Quote:
Originally posted by thebland
Forget these wimpy internet subs..go for the He-Man Velodyne:D !!
Wimpy internet subs huh? Here's a quote from you which says something different.:)

Quote:
Originally posted by thebland
I wrote to SVS, read the threads about that sub, the Velodyne, Mirage, etc. and other heavy duty subs.

Then,I found out about a sub from Servo-drive that was recommended by Chris Collins (MYSPHYT) here on the forum. The ContrBass.

All of the above are nice subs, but I wanted something to really kick out the low, low frequencies.
All of the above are nice subs huh????? :D :D

Just messing with you...
Woodrow is offline  
Closed Thread Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

User Tag List

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off