War of the Worlds damaged my SVS! - Page 16 - AVS Forum
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post #451 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 11:13 AM
 
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[quote=HTX^2steve]
Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub
Hey ... Certain graphs just look better than others. Such as this model. NO limiters or DSP chips required ... :D

Someone had to do it... :cool:

Steve.
While not as good as a blind test in a dark room - that was a pretty nice graph. :cool:
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post #452 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 11:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub
Yes, and we brainwashed the SVS owners who attended. One of them actually set his subwoofer on fire later. I think we used too severe a protocol.
Who said you are brainwasher? On the other hand, who setup the subwoofers for the test? Who performed the switching? Who revealed the final identities of the subs? You. Not saying I am sure you rigged the test, but you certainly had the motive and the means to do it and I, like others, do not trust you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub
By the way, what exactly does John Larsen have to do with jakeman ? I suppose I can start blaming posts made by others on YOU then, Mr. Integrity ?
Johnlarsen has repeatedly mentioned "listening tests", and what other well known listening tests of the EP600 can you point to other than the ones you and Jakeman have conducted?
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post #453 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 11:17 AM
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http://zanyspydude.netfirms.com/Imag...t/capacity.jpg

Anyone selling an SVS PB12 Ultra/2 in Textured Black in North Tx, Ok., La., or Ar., P.M. me please. Have truck, will travel!

My outdated HT pics
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post #454 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 11:18 AM
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.
http://zanyspydude.netfirms.com/Imag...t/capacity.jpg

Anyone selling an SVS PB12 Ultra/2 in Textured Black in North Tx, Ok., La., or Ar., P.M. me please. Have truck, will travel!

My outdated HT pics
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post #455 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 11:19 AM
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,
http://zanyspydude.netfirms.com/Imag...t/capacity.jpg

Anyone selling an SVS PB12 Ultra/2 in Textured Black in North Tx, Ok., La., or Ar., P.M. me please. Have truck, will travel!

My outdated HT pics
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post #456 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 11:20 AM
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@
http://zanyspydude.netfirms.com/Imag...t/capacity.jpg

Anyone selling an SVS PB12 Ultra/2 in Textured Black in North Tx, Ok., La., or Ar., P.M. me please. Have truck, will travel!

My outdated HT pics
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post #457 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 11:20 AM
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Something must be wrong with my computer, it keeps telling me that it needs to restart. Are you guys seeing this too? What a headscratcher. This has never happened before.
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post #458 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 11:20 AM
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Prozakk has replied to his same post 3 times, and then another post. What are we to do??? Reply, ignore, what? I have NEVER come across a person who quotes himself as much as Prozakk:D

God loves me, but everyone else thinks I'm an a$$hole.
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post #459 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 11:22 AM
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The off topic pics and cartoons are better than the pissing contest this thread has turned into. Get each others phone number, take it off line. Go back online and post some more hot chick pics! :D :D :D :D :p :p :p :p

120@20@14'
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post #460 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 11:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeLee
Who said you are brainwasher? On the other hand, who setup the subwoofers for the test? Who performed the switching? Who revealed the final identities of the subs? You. Not saying I am sure you rigged the test, but you certainly had the motive and the means to do it and I, like others, do not trust you.

Johnlarsen has repeatedly mentioned "listening tests", and what other well known listening tests of the EP600 can you point to other than the ones you and Jakeman have conducted?
This ought to be good. Let us explore your little tantrum here:

1. There were 6 participants in the test, all of whom watched me when I revealed the identities of the subwoofers. Had I tampered with anything in any way, there was a pretty good chance I would be caught. They have every opportunity to inspect the subwoofers. Getting caught by, say, Bossobass would have been very probable. He knows more about subwoofers than 99.99% of the people on the planet.

So ... You theory here is pretty lame, because it would have been a HUGE risk on my part, especially with 3 VERY loyal SVS owners here.

2. What POSSIBLE benefit would there have been to me for "rigging" anything. The whole purpose of the blind test was to allow several others to hear the subs with just their ears.

You think my calling you pathetic was a personal attack, but the simple fact is this: you have been in non stop attack mode against me for 3 months now.

You STILL think subwoofers are important enough to me that I might "rig" something.

ANYONE who thinks that is pathetic. These are THINGS Lee Lee... They will not cure cancer.
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post #461 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 11:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub
These are THINGS Lee Lee... They will not cure cancer.
From what I've heard the DSP in the Axiom EP600 just might.
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post #462 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 11:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub
This ought to be good. Let us explore your little tantrum here:

1. There were 6 participants in the test, all of whom watched me when I revealed the identities of the subwoofers. Had I tampered with anything in any way, there was a pretty good chance I would be caught. They have every opportunity to inspect the subwoofers. Getting caught by, say, Bossobass would have been very probable. He knows more about subwoofers than 99.99% of the people on the planet.

So ... You theory here is pretty lame, because it would have been a HUGE risk on my part, especially with 3 VERY loyal SVS owners here.
I'm not saying you did anything, I would just like to say that no one (not even Bosso ;) ) is able to see a subwoofer's in-room FR by just looking at the subwoofer. So if Ultra and EP-500 would have had a different FR's, no one except you would have known it.

Also I kinda not like the way how you measured the FR only with the SMS-1 unit. We all know it uses a lot of smoothing (much more than we with TrueRTA), so I would have checked the FR's with the TrueRTA's QS before claiming that they were within +/- 3 dB.

Quote:
2. What POSSIBLE benefit would there have been to me for "rigging" anything. The whole purpose of the blind test was to allow several others to hear the subs with just their ears.
I don't think I need to answer to this. :p
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post #463 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 11:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeeLee
From what I've heard the DSP in the Axiom EP600 just might.
What about male pattern baldness? If so, I might have to switch over to Axiom:D

God loves me, but everyone else thinks I'm an a$$hole.
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post #464 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 11:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilkka
I'm not saying you did anything, I would just like to say that no one (not even Bosso ;) ) is able to see a subwoofer's in-room FR by just looking at the subwoofer. So if Ultra and EP-500 would have had a different FR's, no one except you would have known it.

Also I kinda not like the way how you measured the FR with the SMS-1 unit. We all know it uses a lot of smoothing (much more than we with TrueRTA), so I would have checked the FR's with the TrueRTA's QS before claiming that they were within +/- 3 dB.


I don't think I need to answer to this. :p
I DID use TrueRTA. I also offered to let everyone see a response curve after the test. They declined. Had they said "yes, let us see it", and I HAD somehow "rigged" this - I would have been busted by 6 people.

You may resume hating and despising people ... ;)
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post #465 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 11:39 AM
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I'm still unimpressed with that wimpy Axiom driver. At least Velodyne uses decent drivers when they overcharge for a sub :D
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post #466 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 11:39 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub
These are THINGS Lee Lee... They will not cure cancer.
She Might ;)

Yum
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post #467 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 11:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub
I DID use TrueRTA. I also offered to let everyone see a response curve after the test. They declined. Had they said "yes, let us see it", and I HAD somehow "rigged" this - I would have been busted by 6 people.

You may resume hating and despising people ... ;)
OK, so why can't you show US the curves then? That would make your session much more believable.
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post #468 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 11:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FoxyMulder
She Might ;)

Yum

Not bad....I'm in, and I'll raise you double (no Pun intended) :p

Holy @ss, Batman!
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post #469 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 11:47 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilkka
OK, so why can't you show US the curves then? That would make your session much more believable.
If I showd them to you, you would hate me even more, and I just couldn't take it ... :p
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post #470 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilkka
I'm not saying you did anything, I would just like to say that no one (not even Bosso ;) ) is able to see a subwoofer's in-room FR by just looking at the subwoofer. So if Ultra and EP-500 would have had a different FR's, no one except you would have known it.
Ah, but they DID have different responses, one of the Axiom having a 5 dB hump at 25 Hz, and EVERYONE heard (or 'saw') it.

It's hard to hide FR disparity nearfield. Doesn't take much listening experience to hear it.

Why the **** you gotta accuse Craig of rigging a test of 2 so-so subwoofers and include me in this condemnable exercise?

Bosso
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post #471 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 11:49 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub
If I showd them to you, you would hate me even more, and I just couldn't take it ... :p
Jokes aside. Why can't you show them?
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post #472 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 11:51 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass
Ah, but they DID have different responses, one of the Axiom having a 5 dB hump at 25 Hz, and EVERYONE heard (or 'saw') it.

It's hard to hide FR disparity nearfield. Doesn't take much listening experience to hear it.
I definitely agree. And you all felt that every subwoofer sounded different?

Quote:
Why the **** you gotta accuse Craig of rigging a test of 2 so-so subwoofers and include me in this condemnable exercise?

Bosso
I don't accuse Craig. I would just like to see the FR's, nothing else.
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post #473 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 11:56 AM
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Less Filling!!!

Tastes Great!!

Less Filling!!!

Tastes Great!!

Less Filling!!!

Tastes Great!!

Less Filling!!!

Tastes Great!!

Less Filling!!!

Less Filling!!!

Tastes Great!!

Less Filling!!!

Tastes Great!!

Less Filling!!!

Tastes Great!!

Less Filling!!!

Tastes Great!!

Less Filling!!!

Tastes Great!!

Tastes Great!!

Less Filling!!!

Tastes Great!!

Less Filling!!!

Tastes Great!!

Less Filling!!!

Tastes Great!!

Less Filling!!!

Tastes Great!!

Less Filling!!!

Tastes Great!!

There are more than a handful of [op amps] that sound so good that most designers want to be using them as opposed to discreet transistors. Dave Reich, Theta 2009
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post #474 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 12:01 PM
 
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Jeff - I took some liberties and decided to edit your well meaning post ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by thebland
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post #475 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 12:06 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bossobass
Ah, but they DID have different responses, one of the Axiom having a 5 dB hump at 25 Hz, and EVERYONE heard (or 'saw') it.

It's hard to hide FR disparity nearfield. Doesn't take much listening experience to hear it.

Why the **** you gotta accuse Craig of rigging a test of 2 so-so subwoofers and include me in this condemnable exercise?

Bosso
That was my favorite part of the test. Watching Bosso trying to write nice things afterward ... :D
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post #476 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilkka
I definitely agree. And you all felt that every subwoofer sounded different?


I don't accuse Craig. I would just like to see the FR's, nothing else.
Ilkka,

Yes, every person in the test remarked to a certain degree about that sound. Interestingly, to me, some liked the bump, some did not.

I've made dozens and dozens of graphs of dozens and dozens of subwoofers in my HT over 5 years. I like a flat response, in-room, with a .5 'Q' after that. I heard the typically bottom-heavy ported sub sound on all the listening sessions, and since I assumed that there were 2 sealed subs included, I assumed it was the room.

After Craig told me that no more than 3 dB of cut or boost was used to acheive a +/- 3 dB FR for all subs (perfectly believable in his size HT and the nearfield placement), I was a bit confused as to what I heard. When he then told us that there were no sealed subs in the room, it made better sense to me regarding what I heard.

The point is that, if there was FR disparity, noting the close placement of the subs to my seat, I am quite sure I would have noted it.

In fact, the 4 listening sessions revealed very similar sound for the playback of all 4 subs, the Axiom with no bump being closest to what I am used to hearing, which is slightly less bottom heavy than the SVS and a bit better clarity as well.

You may attribute the 'clarity' comments to higher THD, and you may be right about that. I don't know. I don't care. I reported what I heard, nothing else.

But...yes, you indeed have accused Craig, and if Craig rigged the test, I was a nearly-deaf dupe in that process, IMO. This is offensive to me. I don't understand it at all.

You and Craig dislike each other. Fine. If you wish to drag me into the disputes, I'll have to react accordingly, as I would expect you to do if the shoe were on the other foot.

Bosso
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post #477 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 12:15 PM
 
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Bosso - I have to disagree with you. I don't dislike anyone. I was even going to send Miss "Tastes Great" to Ilkka for an early Christmas present ... :D

Oh - The rest of the stuff you wrote ? Agreed.... :)
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post #478 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 12:19 PM
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Craig, you can send "less filling" to me if you please :)

I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I'm all out of bubblegum .
My System

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post #479 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 12:20 PM
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While we are at it....allow me to perfect the art of interpretation:

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post #480 of 484 Old 12-07-2005, 12:22 PM
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Good God! I'm sitting here at work with women all around and then.....

nice pics by the way.
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