HSU STF-2 or SVS PB10 Sub? (same price) - AVS Forum
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Old 01-23-2006, 10:51 AM - Thread Starter
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The title pretty much explains it. Trying to decide between the HSU STF-2 or SVS PB10.

They're both the same price, so which one would you choose for a balanced combo of music/HT in the $400 range?

HSU STF-2 or SVS PB10?

Thanks!!
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Old 01-23-2006, 11:22 AM
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PB-10 would be the best do-it-all sub. The STF-2 would work well in a smaller setting where extension is not as important

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Old 01-23-2006, 11:24 AM - Thread Starter
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My room is 20x20 with 9ft ceilings BTW. However, it's a townhome and I don't want to piss off my neighbors either.
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Old 01-23-2006, 11:40 AM
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If it were me, I'd go for the PB10 (nice review here).

For this investment, if you don't have them already, I highly suggest getting an SPL meter and Avia so you can properly calibrate your sub and speakers (Avia will help you calibrate your display as well). With a properly calibrated system, you can know that everything is balanced correctly, so your sub isn't too loud, or your center isn't too quiet meaning that everything else plays too loud just so you can hear dialog, etc.

Using night mode/DRC with DD sources can help keep the peeks down. It kills dynamic range on Max, but I find the Medium setting on my receiver isn't too bad when I need to keep the peeks down at night.
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Old 01-23-2006, 11:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkozlow3
My room is 20x20 with 9ft ceilings BTW. However, it's a townhome and I don't want to piss off my neighbors either.
Well, either one of these subs is more than capable of pissing off your neighbors, so that shouldn't factor into your decision. That is what calibration and the volume control are for.

I haven't heard the Hsu sub, but from most accounts, it's a quality sub.

I have the SVS PB12-ISD, which is fantastic for both music and movies. I recently convinced my bro to pick up the PB10, and he is only angry that I didn't push him harder to pick it up sooner. He loves it. I don't think you can go wrong with the PB10.
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Old 01-23-2006, 11:59 AM
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Im in the same boat as I have a VTF2 on order (maple not do in until mid march, an update on their website would have been nice!!) but as expected I am getting antsy and am looking at the pb-10 as well. My room is approximately 2200 square feet with hardwood floors, would a downfiring (VTF2) be worse or better than the foward firing (PB-10)? Are these 2 very close in comparison??? Any opinions??
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Old 01-23-2006, 12:09 PM
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i'll throw in the mention for the mirage s12 as well since it seems to be the third contender now in the $400 price range. i wish i knew which would be the most satisfying.
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Old 01-23-2006, 12:29 PM
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I was considering these same subwoofers as well as the Mirage Omni S12. In the end I decided on the Omni as it appeared to be able to fill a large room a bit better than SVS (above 25hz). I ruled out the HSU pretty early since it looked like the SVS would give better extension. I was all set to buy the SVS when I found the $400 Omni.
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Old 01-23-2006, 12:43 PM
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i would have said pb10 for 50-100% home theater, vtf-2 for 51-100% music listening, but here comes mirage with s12 for 400 $

s12 mirage now looks like the top model at this price, hands down.

http://miragespeakers.com/omnis12.shtml
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Old 01-23-2006, 12:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnlarsen
i would have said pb10 for 50-100% home theater, vtf-2 for 51-100% music listening, but here comes mirage with s12 for 400 $

s12 mirage now looks like the top model at this price, hands down.

http://miragespeakers.com/omnis12.shtml
I've never heard of this sub. When you say it's hands down the best sub for $400, can you tell me why or point me to some reviews?

Thanks!!
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Old 01-23-2006, 12:54 PM
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http://www.hometheatersound.com/equi...e_omni_s12.htm

check out this quote:

Quote:
In fact, in my day-to-day listening (which some would still consider to be very loud), the Omni S12 consistently surprised me by keeping pace with the Hsu VTF-3 Mk II
it's not as good as a MK2 VTF3, but at medium and lower volume levels it is comparable.
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Old 01-23-2006, 01:07 PM
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my only concern in that review was when he mentioned that the HSU was tighter and more controlled.

Quote:
Although the Mirage was very agile, the Hsu is even tighter and more controlled. The heartbeats from Dr. Chesky’s 5.1 Surround Show sounded cleaner through the Hsu, though there didn’t seem to be much of a difference in output levels (except with the 20Hz tone, where the Hsu seemed slightly louder).
of course this was in comparison to the top-of-the-line HSU sub, not the STF-2 or SVS PB10.

I wish Ed Mullen had reviewed the S12, then we could compare his reviews of the S12, STF-2 and PB10 more directly.

I'm going to order a S12 I think--it doesn't seem to have quite the extension of the PB10 (though it seems to go deeper than the STF-2) but otherwise seems comparable. My interest is somewhat more in music, so I'm hoping warpdrive is right and that the S12 will perform well musically.
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Old 01-23-2006, 01:23 PM
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From the reviews, the Hsu STF-3 is a direct competitor to the S12 in terms of performance/bass extension (making the S12 a great deal because it costs less than the STF-3)
The VTF-3 Mk2 is an unfair fight for the S12 because it is basically a STF-3 with a lower tuning point mode, so it will reach a bit deeper and play more cleanly when asked to. So it is no surprise that when asked to reproduce clean 20Hz musical signals, the VTF-3 should do a better job.

For music, getting the room acoustics right is more of an issue than the specs of the sub itself. For instance, I used to have my sub in a room and the S12 sound great, but now that I moved it into a more difficult room, the sound is very poor, bloated and indistinct bass. I'm taking steps to correct it....but it goes to show how much the room will kill even a decent sounding sub. Right now, for music, I'm running with the sub off until I can get around to fixing the peaks around 40Hz.

There is no doubt the PB10 will eek out a more extension at 20Hz and below, but for the most part, it's really hard to notice the difference unless you play test tones at home volumes

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Old 01-23-2006, 02:47 PM
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list on s12 is $800, right?
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Old 01-23-2006, 02:52 PM
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Old 01-23-2006, 02:52 PM
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Isnt the Mirage S12 pretty much the same as the Energy S12.3? Or is it better?
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Old 01-23-2006, 03:07 PM
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it's pretty much the same (as far as the acoustical performance is). They both use the same amps, driver technology, and internal volume (+/- a insignificant difference)

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Old 01-23-2006, 08:50 PM
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That Energy sub has continuously-variable phase control; the Mirage S12 does not. Not to repeat what I just posted over on the "M12 vs PB10" thread but the PB10 also has a continuously-variable phase control. I have no idea how useful this is.
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Old 01-23-2006, 09:00 PM
 
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i have the athena sp6000....I've heard the mirage and the athena blow its doors off. i use my athena in a 25x25 room in the basement and this bad boy gets real deep tight sound. I have the f2.2 to go with it. awsome for music also.
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Old 01-23-2006, 09:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCDave
That Energy sub has continuously-variable phase control; the Mirage S12 does not. Not to repeat what I just posted over on the "M12 vs PB10" thread but the PB10 also has a continuously-variable phase control. I have no idea how useful this is.
What does that do?
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Old 01-23-2006, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mountwoody
i have the athena sp6000....I've heard the mirage and the athena blow its doors off. i use my athena in a 25x25 room in the basement and this bad boy gets real deep tight sound. I have the f2.2 to go with it. awsome for music also.
I have to wonder how you think it blows the doors off....the Mirage is made by the same company as the Athena, has a far more advanced/better driver, with larger magnet and voice coil diameter, and has 100 more watts RMS amp power and 400 watts more peak power. Even the weight of the Mirage is at least 10 lbs more.

Why would a company make their cheaper sub perform better than their higher end brand? :confused:

I would bet that if you heard both in the same setting, I doubt that you'd still think it blew the doors off. If the Mirage sounded worse, I think it was poorly set up

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Old 01-23-2006, 09:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KPFury
What does that do?
Phase is integral in matching sub to speaker. THe only location my sub can go causes a +8db boost at the crossover point. I turn the phase to 45 degrees and the boost goes away. Continuous phase is a nice feature - I am glad my sub doesnt have the relatively useless 0,180 degree phase switch as that would not have helped my situation out at all.

0 degrees causes a +8dB boost, 180 degree causes a -10dB dip.
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Old 01-23-2006, 09:54 PM
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Quote:
it's pretty much the same (as far as the acoustical performance is). They both use the same amps, driver technology, and internal volume (+/- a insignificant difference)
Tom N gave it a review a while back on the S&V magazine. The review was pretty great.

http://members.cox.net/fabulousfrankie/Nousaine.htm

About 6 down from the top.
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Old 01-23-2006, 10:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shane Martin
Tom N gave it a review a while back on the S&V magazine. The review was pretty great.

http://members.cox.net/fabulousfrankie/Nousaine.htm

About 6 down from the top.
is there anywhere where this review is actually online? I'd like to read his subjective opinions about the musicality of the sub since I've heard some people say they've heard the S12 blend separate bass notes together while others say it is quite well-defined.
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Old 01-23-2006, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonomega
Phase is integral in matching sub to speaker. THe only location my sub can go causes a +8db boost at the crossover point. I turn the phase to 45 degrees and the boost goes away. Continuous phase is a nice feature - I am glad my sub doesnt have the relatively useless 0,180 degree phase switch as that would not have helped my situation out at all.

0 degrees causes a +8dB boost, 180 degree causes a -10dB dip.
How is variable phase different from the distance setting on the receiver or pre/pro in regards to a sub?

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Old 01-24-2006, 09:12 AM
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This is a pretty long URL, but I found a copy of the S12.3 review in Google's cache for you:

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:-...=en&lr=lang_en

Here is the URL for the measurements taken during this roundup:

http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/ass...micsubslab.pdf
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Old 01-24-2006, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
is there anywhere where this review is actually online?
Clicking on the name of the sub will take you right there if it's underlined in blue which this one is :)
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Old 01-24-2006, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cschang
How is variable phase different from the distance setting on the receiver or pre/pro in regards to a sub?
One is a time delay (will affect phase on all freq), whereas variable phase will alter the phase relative to a band of frequencies

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Old 01-24-2006, 10:26 AM
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warpdrive is wise, doing the delay adjustments from the receiver is the superior method versus using the variable phase dial on the subwoofer. i too prefer the simplicity of the 0/180 phase switch
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Old 01-24-2006, 11:11 AM
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The continuous variable is at least very helpful when setting up multiple subs, because 0/180 switch, nor the delay adjustment in the receiver can help you there. Also, when running your fronts as 'small', you really only need to adjust the phase for the xover frequency, and once again the continous variable is the better of the two options.

If you prefer the 0/180 switch, just use the continous adjustment as such :)

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