Auralex Subdude Owners Thread - Page 28 - AVS Forum
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post #811 of 1318 Old 09-23-2010, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by sholling View Post

I didn't see the shimmy with with my 10" 250w front firing subs either. But I did see it big time with the ULS-15. I suspect that it has everything to do with the mass of the driver. However there are other solutions. For example I've used 3/4" layered rubber/cork/rubber isolation pads ($4ea) successfully with a high mass driver front firing sub. But for front firing subs I find that 1" spikes work best with thick carpet over concrete. The spikes isolate while locking the sub in place. Naturally your millage may vary.

As I said the improvement with a down firing sub was huge. The bass was much tighter and the walls stopped shaking. I have another down firing sub on order and already have a SubDude HD ready and waiting for it.

Interesting, once again. I don't have my system on a first floor concrete floor as it is upstairs in our family room which is of course wood frame. In my instance, with the massive driver the F113 uses, I have never witnessed what you describe with your 15" driver. The subs wiegh about 130 lbs each so they are pretty massive for their size. The JL even though it is a 13.5" driver with its rolled suspension equals a 15" acccording to JL. However, having said that, I have cranked them (2) to full live rock concert levels on a few live concert blu-rays I own, one of which is known for its bass response (Police - Certifiable) with 24/96 blu-ray encode. The dynamics and slam of that particular recording are excellent, as is the definition and with the best subs, at high volumes the Sting's bass line is clearly discernable and easy to follow separate from the kick drum. Upon moving both JL's to the Great GRAMMA isolation stands, I found similar improvements noted by others and never have seen any jiggle or movement by the foam feet. Tight and solid. These subs have 2,500 watt amps in each so they are, to say the least, dynamic, fast, clean and tight. Those attributes only improved another degree of magnitude isolating them from the room.

Isolation spikes, while a distinct improvement over laying the sub directly on the floor also introduce their own problems. All isolation devices are not perfect as is pointed out here abut the SubDude and GRAMMA stands, as with spikes. Spikes seem to be the perfect device, on the surface. But they do still direct couple the speaker or sub to the floor and as such will resonate with the concrete's own response frequency. Something I experienced with my main speakers years ago and their own integrated spikes. I ended up placing them on isolation bearings and the improvement was nothing short of startling and much different in the bass response area than one would have otherwise thought. the JL's are too heavy for me to work with in their size now at my age to be able to place them on isolation bearings so the Great GRAMMA was the only other reasonable solution which has worked much better than I expected.

As noted, though, all should remember, no isolation device is perfect including the SubDude and GRAMMA's. They all will to varying degrees upon the specific situation, room and circumstances work to varying degrees. They all are better than nothing, though.

The bottom line, enjoy what they do improve.
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post #812 of 1318 Old 09-23-2010, 05:55 PM
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[quote=oddeofile;19235578Isolation spikes, while a distinct improvement over laying the sub directly on the floor also introduce their own problems. All isolation devices are not perfect as is pointed out here abut the SubDude and GRAMMA stands, as with spikes. Spikes seem to be the perfect device, on the surface. But they do still direct couple the speaker or sub to the floor and as such will resonate with the concrete's own response frequency.[/quote]
Very true - assuming the spike completely penetrates the carpet and pad. That's going to be a function of the shape of the spike, the weight of the sub, and the density of the carpet and carpet pad. In my case the ULS-15 isn't all that heavy and my carpet and padding are substantial enough that I doubt that the spikes have quite reached the concrete. However if i were stuck with thin carpet and padding or had a bare concrete floor I would probably be using something like this with my Hsu.

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As noted, though, all should remember, no isolation device is perfect including the SubDude and GRAMMA's. They all will to varying degrees upon the specific situation, room and circumstances work to varying degrees. They all are better than nothing, though.

The bottom line, enjoy what they do improve.

I agree completely and will be using a SubDude with my new down firing PC12 along with the Great Gramma I'm already using with my PB12-Plus/2. The difference with the Plus/2 was huge.
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post #813 of 1318 Old 09-24-2010, 04:44 PM
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Sholling,

Rats... I tried your link regarding the Hsu sub and the website store is "temporarily closed" on the website. Out of curiosity, how much does your ULS-15 weigh? My front main L/R speakers in my HT I use are about 70 lbs each and their spikes went right through my carpet both in my old home which was fairly thick and in my townhouse upper floor before I moved them to the isolation bearings. Of course, I don't use 1"+ padding under the carpt, I think it is standard 5/8" or thereabouts, but I am curious as a fair amount of weight should peirce the carpeting/padding unless the spikes are not pointed sharp (i.e. slighly rounded).

Enjoy.
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post #814 of 1318 Old 09-24-2010, 05:29 PM
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Originally Posted by oddeofile View Post

Sholling,

Rats... I tried your link regarding the Hsu sub and the website store is "temporarily closed" on the website. Out of curiosity, how much does your ULS-15 weigh? My front main L/R speakers in my HT I use are about 70 lbs each and their spikes went right through my carpet both in my old home which was fairly thick and in my townhouse upper floor before I moved them to the isolation bearings. Of course, I don't use 1"+ padding under the carpt, I think it is standard 5/8" or thereabouts, but I am curious as a fair amount of weight should peirce the carpeting/padding unless the spikes are not pointed sharp (i.e. slighly rounded).

Enjoy.

93lbs. I just moved that sub today and if the spikes are reaching the floor at all it's just barely. Not enough to be transferring much if any energy. That's the whole point. To reduce the amount of energy being transferred from the sub to the floor. With a down firing sub you have energy fired down at the floor like hammer. With a front or side firing sub the energy moves parallel to the floor. If the cabinet is built properly there won't be a ton of cabinet resonance to transfer to the floor. I suspect that with a heavily built sub that the majority of improvement with heavy carpet and padding is just getting the sub up an inch. Wood floors are of course a whole different animal.
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post #815 of 1318 Old 11-04-2010, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by sholling View Post

93lbs. I just moved that sub today and if the spikes are reaching the floor at all it's just barely. Not enough to be transferring much if any energy. That's the whole point. To reduce the amount of energy being transferred from the sub to the floor. With a down firing sub you have energy fired down at the floor like hammer. With a front or side firing sub the energy moves parallel to the floor. If the cabinet is built properly there won't be a ton of cabinet resonance to transfer to the floor. I suspect that with a heavily built sub that the majority of improvement with heavy carpet and padding is just getting the sub up an inch. Wood floors are of course a whole different animal.

So I live in a townhouse condo and share one wall with a neighbor. The bottom floor is concrete, but my HT is on the 2nd floor which is built using a wood frame. There was sound isolation between units and I cheapened out and didn't get the sound isolation between levels in my residence when the place was being built. What is done is done, but when I finally purchased a subwoofer and turned it up a bit, my neighbors complained of their 3rd level bedroom wall rattling and they could hear the bass. They did not hear any higher frequencies at all, which is nice and that's probably where the sound isolation is helping. I was in their bedroom and tested this out and could hear the vibrations. Anyways, so I was thinking, after reading some threads here, what do you guys think (or if someone has tried this) to put a slab of granite/concrete on the carpeted floor, then the Subdude on top of that? I already have a Subdude and it didn't help enough I guess. Has this helped anyone here who lives in an apartment or condo? Also, I currently have a down-firing sub, but will be getting a front-firing one soon (most likely a ULS-15). Do you see that helping in this situation since the sub will no longer be pounding the floor with sound pressure?
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post #816 of 1318 Old 11-04-2010, 03:09 PM
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It doesn't matter if your sub is down firing or not. The bass will act the same. Most of the frequencies covered by the sub are non directional. You aren't directing the bass into the floor just because your sub is down firing. A front firing sub will do the same thing. If you are getting a front firing sub in hopes of helping the neighbor you are wasting your money. You already use a Subdude. I can't see a piece of granite under the Subdude doing any good. Most just use on or the other. Doubling up won't give you double the decoupling. The waves traveling through the air is whats shaking the walls now. A Subdude, or granite slab won't stop that.
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post #817 of 1318 Old 11-04-2010, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Secret Squirrel View Post

It doesn't matter if your sub is down firing or not. The bass will act the same. Most of the frequencies covered by the sub are non directional. You aren't directing the bass into the floor just because your sub is down firing. A front firing sub will do the same thing. If you are getting a front firing sub in hopes of helping the neighbor you are wasting your money. You already use a Subdude. I can't see a piece of granite under the Subdude doing any good. Most just use on or the other. Doubling up won't give you double the decoupling. The waves traveling through the air is whats shaking the walls now. A Subdude, or granite slab won't stop that.

While I agree to a certain extent. Yes, bass frequencies are omni-directional but that is only because our ears cannot perceive what direction the sound is coming from because of the waves are so long. I bet that if you were to listen to some bass by standing in front of the woofer as it was blasting away and then moved to behind the sub on the other side and listened, I bet the sound level would be lessened as the sound pressure is now no longer directed straight at you. You would probably be listening to the reflected sound waves off the opposite wall.

I believe the piece of granite should help a down-firing subwoofer as the sound pressure created between the woofer and the limited amount of space between the sub and the floor is probably pretty great. I believe the sound pressure would cause vibrations in the floor if uncovered. Having said that, I believe the slab of granite helps less with a front-firing as it sends the sound pressure through the air and not directed down onto the floor. However, in this scenario, you are now getting the full brunt of the sound wave onto the walls as the sound pressure is now horizontal versus a down-firing sub which is vertical. But depending on how far away you are putting the woofer end to the opposite wall, the resistance in the air (although minute) would slow down the pressure somewhat. I do agree with you here that the sound pressure in the air is probably enough as well to shake the walls even though it is decoupled from the ground.

What I wanted to find out was someone's personal experience with this and if it helped at all and more specifically with a down-firing sub.
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post #818 of 1318 Old 11-04-2010, 03:53 PM
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I have the great grammas for my four SVS ultras and I prefer not to use them. More visceral without them in my set up. Also, my two Pluses are now on the ground gramma less as well.
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post #819 of 1318 Old 11-05-2010, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by jonLavs View Post
So I live in a townhouse condo and share one wall with a neighbor. The bottom floor is concrete, but my HT is on the 2nd floor which is built using a wood frame. There was sound isolation between units and I cheapened out and didn't get the sound isolation between levels in my residence when the place was being built. What is done is done, but when I finally purchased a subwoofer and turned it up a bit, my neighbors complained of their 3rd level bedroom wall rattling and they could hear the bass. They did not hear any higher frequencies at all, which is nice and that's probably where the sound isolation is helping. I was in their bedroom and tested this out and could hear the vibrations. Anyways, so I was thinking, after reading some threads here, what do you guys think (or if someone has tried this) to put a slab of granite/concrete on the carpeted floor, then the Subdude on top of that? I already have a Subdude and it didn't help enough I guess. Has this helped anyone here who lives in an apartment or condo? Also, I currently have a down-firing sub, but will be getting a front-firing one soon (most likely a ULS-15). Do you see that helping in this situation since the sub will no longer be pounding the floor with sound pressure?
I too live in a townhouse with my theater in a loft on the second floor. I have a Subdude under my Submersive and theres nothing short of detaching my neighbors homes that would help them not hear(feel) the bass from this thing. I just have learned the hours of applicable operation and volumes possible. Cant really use this thing to its full potential till Ive got a basement.
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post #820 of 1318 Old 11-05-2010, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by HyperM3 View Post
I too live in a townhouse with my theater in a loft on the second floor. I have a Subdude under my Submersive and theres nothing short of detaching my neighbors homes that would help them not hear(feel) the bass from this thing. I just have learned the hours of applicable operation and volumes possible. Cant really use this thing to its full potential till Ive got a basement.
It's sad really. I live in California and wish I could justify paying so much for a single family house, but I can't. And so I must try everything I can think of to figure out how to enjoy my HT as much as I possibly can without disturbing the neighbors. Hopefully some day, I'll be able to blast a subwoofer without any guilt.
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post #821 of 1318 Old 11-15-2010, 08:58 PM
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Hello
I have just put a subdude under my svs SB12.The vibrations have definitely stopped.Movies provide that good bass,air thumping without floorboards involved..
The issue I have faced is that while running Audyssey my Fronts are being set to 110 HZ.The Monitor Audio GS20's are capable of dipping to near 70Hz..Is this common?My center and surrounds are close to 80Hz..
Has anyone winessed this in your system.

Much apprecated
KS

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post #822 of 1318 Old 11-15-2010, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by vidya46 View Post

Hello
I have just put a subdude under my svs SB12.The vibrations have definitely stopped.Movies provide that good bass,air thumping without floorboards involved..
The issue I have faced is that while running Audyssey my Fronts are being set to 110 HZ.The Monitor Audio GS20's are capable of dipping to near 70Hz..Is this common?My center and surrounds are close to 80Hz..
Has anyone winessed this in your system.

Much apprecated
KS

Yes, have witnessed the same thing. That is what Audyssey detects in your room, but you can always manually change the crossovers, if you want and see how it then sounds. Then go back to the Audyssey settings via default.
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post #823 of 1318 Old 11-15-2010, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vidya46 View Post

Hello
I have just put a subdude under my svs SB12.The vibrations have definitely stopped.Movies provide that good bass,air thumping without floorboards involved..
The issue I have faced is that while running Audyssey my Fronts are being set to 110 HZ.The Monitor Audio GS20's are capable of dipping to near 70Hz..Is this common?My center and surrounds are close to 80Hz..
Has anyone winessed this in your system.

Much apprecated
KS

Hi vidya46, maybe try to reposition the fronts back closer to the wall alittle and maybe even tilt it slightly toward LP.
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post #824 of 1318 Old 11-16-2010, 08:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vidya46 View Post

Hello
I have just put a subdude under my svs SB12.The vibrations have definitely stopped.Movies provide that good bass,air thumping without floorboards involved..
The issue I have faced is that while running Audyssey my Fronts are being set to 110 HZ.The Monitor Audio GS20's are capable of dipping to near 70Hz..Is this common?My center and surrounds are close to 80Hz..
Has anyone winessed this in your system.

Much apprecated
KS

Quote:
Originally Posted by fookoo_2010 View Post

Yes, have witnessed the same thing. That is what Audyssey detects in your room, but you can always manually change the crossovers, if you want and see how it then sounds. Then go back to the Audyssey settings via default.

I believe Audyssey states that you may adjust a crossover higher, but recommends not lowering one.

If you have a month or two, you might pop into the Audyssey thread for some light reading.

Enjoy!

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post #825 of 1318 Old 11-16-2010, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by WhskyTangoFoxtrt View Post

I believe Audyssey states that you may adjust a crossover higher, but recommends not lowering one.

Assuming the existence of a Sub, somewhere on the Audyssey website it says to set the speakers to small, if set to large by Audyssey, and then start at a crossover of 80hz for the Sub. I would think that one of the problems in doing this is that there is a gap or hole between 80hz and whatever the lower limit of the crossovers are for the speakers where Audyssey is not doing anything. Still, I think that you have to live with what Audyssey does for awhile and see what it does for the audio. If you don't like it, you can always change it via the crossover route. Once you run Audyssey again, the 80hz is wiped out and you can then reset it manually.
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post #826 of 1318 Old 11-16-2010, 12:31 PM
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Subdudes!!

Just ordered 2 subdudes to go under my SVS PB-12 Ultra/2......should get them by Friday.

I don't do home theatre. This is for two-channel listening only so my goal is to ultimately tighten up the bass on the Ultra. I'll post my impressions.....can't wait!!!!

Bigger is Better...Less is More
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post #827 of 1318 Old 11-16-2010, 12:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vidya46 View Post

Hello
I have just put a subdude under my svs SB12.The vibrations have definitely stopped.Movies provide that good bass,air thumping without floorboards involved..
The issue I have faced is that while running Audyssey my Fronts are being set to 110 HZ.The Monitor Audio GS20's are capable of dipping to near 70Hz..Is this common?My center and surrounds are close to 80Hz..
Has anyone winessed this in your system.

Much apprecated
KS

Check the Audyssey Guide in my sig.

You can adjust the crossovers up but not down. Remember these are the results of your speakers measured in your room. The results don't always jive with what the speaker manufacturer measures (or claims).
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post #828 of 1318 Old 11-16-2010, 06:32 PM
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Hello Auralex owners,

I plan to purchase a HSU VTF-15H in the near future and I am considering an isolation pad. It looks like the Great Gramma is the closes in size to the sub specs. The sub is 26" x 18" with out grill and 27" x 18" with grill.

Great Gramma is 30" x 19" x 2.75" Cheapest price shipped I have found so far is $116 from Amazon with free shipping.

I also noticed that ED sells isolation pads. Their best match is the A5-350 pad, which is 26.75" x 19.25" x 4" which is $65, and $30 shipping. ED also offers a custom isolation pad built to spec for $75. So for custom ED pad looking at $105 shipped

http://blog.edesignaudio.com/?p=1097

http://www.edesignaudio.com/product_...roducts_id=945

Would like to hear your feedback on ED isolation pad compared to Great Gramma. I can get the ED A5-350 for around $95 shipped and it would have a better fit to the sub. Or I could go with the custom ED pad for $105 shipped. The sub costs so much that I would probably want to for the custom pad for an exact fit.

Daniel
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post #829 of 1318 Old 11-16-2010, 08:57 PM
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The smallest Auralex is i believe 15" x 15".

Does anyone make something in the 12" x 12" range?

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post #830 of 1318 Old 11-16-2010, 09:00 PM
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you can try eD, pretty sure they wont have any problems making you an iso pad to your specifications.
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post #831 of 1318 Old 11-21-2010, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d_m1010 View Post

I have the great grammas for my four SVS ultras and I prefer not to use them. More visceral without them in my set up. Also, my two Pluses are now on the ground gramma less as well.

Same results here. Struck out when trying them under my speakers as well. I don't have a vibration or rattling issue in my heavily treated room.

The subdudes made the bass less dynamic....less visceral in my room. It could very well be a room thing. However, I could see these things being beneficial in a problematic room.

In the meantime, I put a subdude underneath my cd player.

Bigger is Better...Less is More
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post #832 of 1318 Old 12-15-2010, 03:58 PM
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guys anyone able to compare subdude vs subdude hd ....??

i need one for my just arrived svs pc 12 nsd. and i cant make up my mind between the 2....

Thanks,

Rana

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post #833 of 1318 Old 12-15-2010, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post

guys anyone able to compare subdude vs subdude hd ....??

i need one for my just arrived svs pc 12 nsd. and i cant make up my mind between the 2....

The main difference is the carpet on the platform. The regular Subdude has a course grey carpet. The HD version has a finer black material. The HD does look a little better for home use in my opinion. I have two HD's.
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post #834 of 1318 Old 12-15-2010, 07:41 PM
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I would wait for the January 2011 CES release of the new 3D version!
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post #835 of 1318 Old 12-15-2010, 09:04 PM
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I have one SubDude and one SubDude HD. They are identical except for the fabric on top of the SubDude HD. My subs (Hsu ULS-15s) are slightly larger than the SubDudes. So, the fabric is not even visible. Save $10.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post

guys anyone able to compare subdude vs subdude hd ....??

i need one for my just arrived svs pc 12 nsd. and i cant make up my mind between the 2....

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post #836 of 1318 Old 12-16-2010, 05:15 AM
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Secret & timo thanks

I'm not sure if the base of the svs pc12 NSd can cover the top of the subdude/hd entirely so I guess little on the sides will still show...

Timo can you put up close up pictures of both since you have both the versions... that'll really help me make up my mind

Thanks

Thanks,

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post #837 of 1318 Old 12-16-2010, 08:13 AM
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My back is still sore from putting my 90 lb ULS-15s on the SubDudes last week. ha ha. So, I apologize but I'm not gonna lift them off the SubDudes for pictures. Yes, I believe your sub has a 16" diameter and a couple of inches of the corners of the SubDudes will show. Here is a link to Amazon.com's SubDude page. They show the SubDude and SubDude HD right next to each other. The pictures are not great, but they give you the idea. The SubDude top looks like very dark grey carpet and the HD looks like black felt. The HD's top does look a little better. But, the support structure under the top is identical in the two units. If the base of your SVS cylinders are completely black, the HD would probably look a bit better. But, its hard to say whether you'd ever notice it. Guess its just a close call. Sorry I can't help more.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss...fix=subdude+hd

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Originally Posted by rana_kirti View Post

Secret & timo thanks

I'm not sure if the base of the svs pc12 NSd can cover the top of the subdude/hd entirely so I guess little on the sides will still show...

Timo can you put up close up pictures of both since you have both the versions... that'll really help me make up my mind

Thanks

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post #838 of 1318 Old 12-16-2010, 09:45 AM
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I have a CS 10.2 on the way. Would it be beneficial for me to use a subdude with it? I know the dual driver cabinet is supposed to be inert so I'm not sure what effect it might have.
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post #839 of 1318 Old 12-17-2010, 01:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimoHT View Post

My back is still sore from putting my 90 lb ULS-15s on the SubDudes last week. ha ha. So, I apologize but I'm not gonna lift them off the SubDudes for pictures. Yes, I believe your sub has a 16" diameter and a couple of inches of the corners of the SubDudes will show. Here is a link to Amazon.com's SubDude page. They show the SubDude and SubDude HD right next to each other. The pictures are not great, but they give you the idea. The SubDude top looks like very dark grey carpet and the HD looks like black felt. The HD's top does look a little better. But, the support structure under the top is identical in the two units. If the base of your SVS cylinders are completely black, the HD would probably look a bit better. But, its hard to say whether you'd ever notice it. Guess its just a close call. Sorry I can't help more.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss...fix=subdude+hd

thanks...

i'm goin for the HD...!!

Thanks,

Rana

a few funny stories from my life ------->http://www.kirtirana.blogspot.com
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post #840 of 1318 Old 12-17-2010, 06:42 AM
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Just a note that the Great Gramma can be obtained at Sweetwater.com for $80, including free shipping-$15 cheaper than A-----, excluding shipping!
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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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