Auralex Subdude Owners Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1318 Old 03-18-2006, 11:32 PM
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I decided to make some DIY subwoofer isolators/bass-traps. Total cost for two subwoofers was about $30 for materials, and about 2.5 hours of work. Most of that spent sewing.

Photos.

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post #92 of 1318 Old 03-19-2006, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

How can a concrete slab vibrate?

Kal

I have a porcelain tile bonded to concrete floor and my B&W ASW800 can move it.
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post #93 of 1318 Old 03-19-2006, 05:16 PM
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I've been using the Auralex Gramma for over a week now. To be honest, it did not subjectively lower the vibration levels in my wood-joist floor one bit. My sub (Paradigm PW-2200) has rubber feet and my floor has thick carpet and pad.

I think the bass may be a tad tighter in the room, but that could be $50 out of my wallet talking too.
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post #94 of 1318 Old 03-19-2006, 06:12 PM
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I played Kodo at high levels and did confirm with my isolators that the floor right next to the subwoofers was not vibrating as it used to. The SVS 16-46PC+ also has little rubber feet on the bottom plate. I don't really think it helps the subwoofer be more efficient, as the energy should be getting absorbed by the foam and fiberglass. Although I guess that does mean energy previously absorbed by the house and possibly coming back to affect the subwoofer is being absorbed too.

I did, however, confirm that bass is tighter. Probably due to faster absorbtion of vertical standing wave energies by the foam and fiberglass, as well as raising the subwoofer driver farther from the floor to help prevent standing waves from forming in the first place. The confirmation comes from my left ear no longer hurting due to boominess when listening to something like Massive Attack's Mezzanine at ~75dB.

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post #95 of 1318 Old 04-05-2006, 09:42 AM
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My sub (an old Velodyne F1000) already has an inch-thick granite base. Is the main decoupling of the Subdude by virtue of the 'risers'? Because if it's really more the MDF base, I would guess I already have that covered.

Sorry, 'I spent $50 and things sound better immediately' doesn't work for me as evidence. Has anyone taken measurements (e.g., w/Room EQ Wizard, ETF, etc) to see if the Subdue or Gramma are really changing anything substantially at the listening position? (I would guess floor vibration could also be 'measured' by putting a glass or bowl of water on the floor and comparing visible rippling without/with the Auralex device)
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post #96 of 1318 Old 04-05-2006, 04:44 PM
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There is now the Great Gramma (same as Subdude/Gramma but bigger) for those with large subs.

http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/GreatGRAMMA/
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post #97 of 1318 Old 04-05-2006, 08:01 PM
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Wow, what timing. I just bought 2 regular sub-dudes for my SVS PB12-plus/2 a couple of weeks ago. The new Great Gramma is the perfect size. Oh well.
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post #98 of 1318 Old 04-05-2006, 10:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Roadapple,

If you don't think they will work, then fuggedaboudit! I have an SMS-1 in MY system, and the Sub Dude was the best $50 I ever spent. Would you lke me to PM you some SMS-1 before and after sweep screen shots ?

fuggedaboudit! If 96 posts aren't enough to convince you. keep your $50 for your next trip to Wal Mart.

With my system, In my room, to my ears......
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post #99 of 1318 Old 04-05-2006, 11:32 PM
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I just stumbled across this thread. I set up some mo pads, which is another auralex product under a GR Research sub I have been working on. I wondered about their ability to support the weight, and auralex support told me they are the same stuff that is used for the gramma and sub-dude, and as long as the weight is evenly distributed, everything is cool. My sub weighs 140 lbs. If you are looking to do a custom job, you could cut some MDF to the proper size and put mopads under it. Here is a picture of the sub (in progress) with mopads under it.
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post #100 of 1318 Old 04-06-2006, 07:22 PM
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This thread reminds me of the recommendation I remember reading back in some old Stereophile, which was to use four tennis balls under the feet of the sub to act as a decoupling device.

Has anyone tried this? If so, how does it compare to the results of the Subdude? Anyone with a Subdude want to try an A/B test?

Scott

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post #101 of 1318 Old 04-07-2006, 03:35 AM
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I posted in another thread about my problem with my Outlaw LFM-1 making just muffled sounds and it turned out it had sunk almost completely into my carpet. Now that I have the the Subdude (took about a week to get from Sweetwater) it sounds like it is supposed to. I still get some rattling due to construction, but I can adjust for that. It also helps keep a little of the sub sound from going through the floor (theater is on the second floor).

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post #102 of 1318 Old 04-07-2006, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capfacsurf View Post

Roadapple,

If you don't think they will work, then fuggedaboudit! I have an SMS-1 in MY system, and the Sub Dude was the best $50 I ever spent. Would you lke me to PM you some SMS-1 before and after sweep screen shots ?

If you mean, me, yes, that's exactly what I'd like to see. Why don't you post them here instead, so everyone else can see them too?

Quote:
fuggedaboudit! If 96 posts aren't enough to convince you. keep your $50 for your next trip to Wal Mart.

96 posts of anecdotal evidence doesn't make the quality of the evidence better. Fugghedabout science, I guess. And btw, up yours.
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post #103 of 1318 Old 04-07-2006, 04:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mleineke View Post

Wow, what timing. I just bought 2 regular sub-dudes for my SVS PB12-plus/2 a couple of weeks ago. The new Great Gramma is the perfect size. Oh well.

you have a PM my friend

James
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post #104 of 1318 Old 04-07-2006, 07:08 PM
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I believe the subdude will not only isolate the sub from the floor (I did stand next to the sub after installing my isolators to verify less floor vibration) but that placing "trap" material under the isolator will reduce the decay time of standing waves.

I haven't done measurements on my isolators, but Secrets did some measurements off a different subwoofer isolator product (taller and more expensive than the subdude) that didn't have much effect on the SPL but did have some effect on the decay time.

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post #105 of 1318 Old 04-08-2006, 04:01 PM
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The 'trap' area under the subdude/gamma is so small I find it hard to believe it would have much effect on standing waves. But a waterfall plot would tell the story, for better or worse.
Perhaps I will suggest to Ethan Winer that he test one of these devices.
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post #106 of 1318 Old 04-10-2006, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lexa695 View Post

Have any of you tried spikes?

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Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

Yes, but this Auralex is MUCH better.

Spikes and the Subdude are opposites.

Spikes couple the sub to the floor. The Subdude (and other things like it) decouple the sub and floor. It damps the vibrations what would excite resonances in the floor and adjoining structure.

No matter where you go. ... There you are.
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post #107 of 1318 Old 04-10-2006, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post

I would not think they would be as useful on concrete since their primary function is to physically isolate the sub from a live, resonant wood (or other) surface. Since concrete won't vibrate sympathetically, just a stable support (feet, spikes) should be fine.

Kal

Not entirely true. Concrete does vibrate sympathetically, but has different resonant characteristics from e.g. floor-over-joist. It has more mass and is stiffer, and may not be free-standing, so the resonance amplitude won't be as large. But concrete transfers energy much better than wood. Using a Subdude should significantly improve sound isolation on concrete floors. Conversely, spikes will make it worse.

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post #108 of 1318 Old 04-10-2006, 10:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krabapple View Post

The 'trap' area under the subdude/gamma is so small I find it hard to believe it would have much effect on standing waves. But a waterfall plot would tell the story, for better or worse.
Perhaps I will suggest to Ethan Winer that he test one of these devices.

There's no controversy about damping sympathetic vibrations in the structure. My floor vibrated so much that after several minutes of bass-heavy scenes our feet would start to get numb. After the Subdudes, most of the vibration was gone.

One thing I did not expect, though, was the "tightening up" of the bass. I heard it and it's been widely reported, but I'd definitely like to get a handle on what's happening, if anything. This has been reported in rooms where structural resonance (supposedly) wasn't a problem. Think we could get Ethan to do it?

No matter where you go. ... There you are.
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post #109 of 1318 Old 04-10-2006, 12:30 PM - Thread Starter
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krabapple,

My post to you earlier was a bit mean spirited...sorry for that. Why don't you order the subdude from Sweetwater, and graph it yourself? If the numbers don't show an improvement, return the Subdude. Pretty simple.

With my system, In my room, to my ears......
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post #110 of 1318 Old 04-10-2006, 12:59 PM
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I have my SVS 20-39 PC+ on a bottom floor, carpeted under concrete. For whatever reason, I get huge low frequency reenforcement. I've played with positioning, and some spots are better, but no spot is ideal. I can get up to +15 db boosts from 20-30 hz range. I have the SMS-1 eq and it definetl does what it needs to. I'm just wondering if in my situation this device would help my situation at all or not because it not being a hardwood floor.

While, some boost is nice, this is over the top and silly and just doesn't sound right. Again, the sms-1 definetly works, but I would like to get it naturally better first, then electronically for whatever remains.
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post #111 of 1318 Old 04-10-2006, 01:20 PM - Thread Starter
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jesyjames,

Earlier in this thread there was some discussion about the Subdude and concrete floors. If i remember correctly, a poster with much greater knowledge than myself statd that the concrete floors would pickup some "sympathetic" vibrations from the sub, and hence, the Subdude would offer benefits. Go bak to the first two or three pages on this thread and you will find the relevant posts. My advice is the same for everyone: it's only $50! Buy it, try it, and if it desn't work, Sweetwater.com gives you 30 days to return it for a full refund.

With my system, In my room, to my ears......
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post #112 of 1318 Old 04-10-2006, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post

There's no controversy about damping sympathetic vibrations in the structure. My floor vibrated so much that after several minutes of bass-heavy scenes our feet would start to get numb. After the Subdudes, most of the vibration was gone.

One thing I did not expect, though, was the "tightening up" of the bass. I heard it and it's been widely reported, but I'd definitely like to get a handle on what's happening, if anything. This has been reported in rooms where structural resonance (supposedly) wasn't a problem. Think we could get Ethan to do it?


Well, I wonder if reducing vibrations in large room objects, including walls and floors, would perhaps 'tighten up' the sound significantly all by itself...requiring no 'trapping' role for the space beneath the device.
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post #113 of 1318 Old 04-10-2006, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Capfacsurf View Post

krabapple,

My post to you earlier was a bit mean spirited...sorry for that. Why don't you order the subdude from Sweetwater, and graph it yourself? If the numbers don't show an improvement, return the Subdude. Pretty simple.

I'm definitely considering it. I'm moving to NYC in a month, to an apartment, and would wait until then to order it. I'd also consider buying one and loaning it to Ethan or Terry (Montlick) for measurement, since they're much more adept at the techniques than I am.

But in the meantime, if anyone has such data to share, I'd like to see it.
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post #114 of 1318 Old 04-10-2006, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by srw1000 View Post

This thread reminds me of the recommendation I remember reading back in some old Stereophile, which was to use four tennis balls under the feet of the sub to act as a decoupling device.

Has anyone tried this? If so, how does it compare to the results of the Subdude? Anyone with a Subdude want to try an A/B test?

Scott

I believe this will work in theory, but only if you use audiophile grade Tennis balls.

Live GT: Destructorbot PSN: BassTek
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post #115 of 1318 Old 04-10-2006, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF View Post

Not entirely true. Concrete does vibrate sympathetically, but has different resonant characteristics from e.g. floor-over-joist. It has more mass and is stiffer, and may not be free-standing, so the resonance amplitude won't be as large. But concrete transfers energy much better than wood. Using a Subdude should significantly improve sound isolation on concrete floors. Conversely, spikes will make it worse.

Yeah. I think I already apologized for that blanket statement.

As for the Subdude on a concrete floor, I was unable to hear/feel any difference with or without it. It is possible that my neighbors would experience a difference but I don't ask.

On a wood/joist floor, however, the differences are palpable.

Kal

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"Music in the Round"
Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile
http://www.stereophile.com/category/music-round

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post #116 of 1318 Old 04-10-2006, 06:48 PM
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So I just ordered two used grammas off audiogon last week that should be here this week. One for my PC-Ultra and one for my Cinenova 5. Eventually I plan on using either both for a DIY i'm going to build someday or maybe some other way. I have a door that rattles at certain frequencies and wall mounted DVD holders that rattle at certain frequencies also. Anxious to see if this helps. Too lazy to fix it otherwise.

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post #117 of 1318 Old 04-15-2006, 10:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krabapple View Post

Well, I wonder if reducing vibrations in large room objects, including walls and floors, would perhaps 'tighten up' the sound significantly all by itself...requiring no 'trapping' role for the space beneath the device.

Oh, I find it hard to believe that the small space underneath the platform has any function as a trap. Doesn't it have to be some fraction (e.g. 1/4) of the wavelength of the influenced frequency? A 3' platform would have no effect on anything below about 115 Hz.

As I said, the 'tightening' effect has been reported in spaces where structural resonance wasn't an issue, e.g. all-concrete rooms. I rather suspect that it has something to do with the support of the subwoofer case, affecting the way the case moves in relation to the cone. There should, then, be a difference between down- and side-firing designs. But I haven't noticed any pattern in the reports. (Mine are down-firing.)

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post #118 of 1318 Old 04-17-2006, 07:32 AM - Thread Starter
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My bass tightened up quite a bit, but then, I think my situation is fairly unique. My sub is on the third floor of a four story stick framed townhome. The sub itself is a massive M&K pro model with a pair of 12" drivers. So it seemed as though my sub was mounted on a double level trampoline. I think the floor beneath the sub moved so much, that bass notes were smeared at even normal volumes. With the Sub Dude isolating it, I was able to increase the volume of the M&K, without disrupting my speaker level balances. And bass notes seem to have a sharper attack, better focus.

With my system, In my room, to my ears......
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post #119 of 1318 Old 04-23-2006, 08:30 PM
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Well after reading all the good info about the Subdude, I went down to Guitar Center and picked up a Gramma, instead of having to order a Subdude. I first went to my Dads house to see how it would work with his B&W sub. I have always felt it was boomy. Along with my 63 year old mother, that can't stand boom, we put on U-571 and went straight for one of the depth charge scenes. First we played without the Gramma, and not only hers but my ears started to hurt. Then replayed it with the Gramma. Still loud, but both of us felt that it was much clearer and it did not hurt either one of our ears. Very subtle but noticeable. I plan on buying one for my father for his birthday. I have a SVS PB12-ISD, and just placed it under it, but have not had a chance to test it out. Kinda looks goofy though, since the sub overlaps it. I am thinking I might not notice as much difference with my sub, because I have never felt it was a boomy sub, unlike my dads.
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post #120 of 1318 Old 04-26-2006, 08:27 AM
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I have thick carpet. Will the Subdude make much difference for me?
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