Subwoofer movies that DON'T suck? - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 735 Old 05-03-2006, 10:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadd View Post

I just watched The Incredibles and wasn't impressed. Do you have the time stamps for these scenes?

Maybe my sub (SVS PB-10) isn't setup properly (but when I play music, the sub really kicks!).

Right now, I have a 5.1 setup and I have a Optical Digital wire going from DVD to Receiver.

All speakers set to small. Cross over set at 80Hz. The gain set to 1/3 of the way up (about 10 or 11 o'clock).

I watched the movie at about 80dB.


Have you calibrated the sub to match the speakers?
Have you run frequency sweeps to see what kind of frequency response you are getting? The location of your sub and/or listening position, combined with room acoustics, could give you good bass at some frequencies, but could also suck out the bass at others, making HT less than spectacular.
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post #182 of 735 Old 05-04-2006, 07:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadd View Post

I just watched The Incredibles and wasn't impressed. Do you have the time stamps for these scenes?

don't know the exact timestamps but the rocket launch and chase scene w/Dash through the jungle jump to mind

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadd View Post

Maybe my sub (SVS PB-10) isn't setup properly (but when I play music, the sub really kicks!).

if you have an SVS and weren't impressed w/the rocket launch that does sound pretty suspicious... I just got a pb12+/2 and that scene rattles my surrounds on their wall mounts ;-)
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post #183 of 735 Old 05-04-2006, 08:24 AM
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Sounds like a set-up problem. If the sub kicks on music, maybe the processor is set up to siphon the lower frequencies from the other speakers whereas with 5.1, the LF channel is dedicated (and may not even be operating in that context, depending on set-up).

Another possible problem, if THE INCREDIBLES did not excite your low-zone, is that you don't have dual Snell 18" behemoths pounding every available molecule of air onto your tympanic membrane -- I have found that with that new approach to LFE reproduction in my home, even with the sub channel independantly adjusted at its lowest setting (-10), THE INCREDIBLES still delivers awesome impact -- You might try that.
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post #184 of 735 Old 05-04-2006, 10:02 AM
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Azn_plyr,

Your quote:

"O btw, The Incredibles > WOTW in the bass department IMO."

While your are certainly entitled to your opinion and I have no doubt that Incredibles does sound better on your system than does WOTW, I must totally disagree. Now granted I will admit that the Incredibles has some good bass scenes, nor have I compared waterfall graphs, but the bass in Incredibles is nowhere near the level and depth of scene 4 (1st tripod rising) of WOW. Again the H100 may not quite be up to depth and rumble of this scene, hence the reason you like Incredibles better. Well, actually I LIKE incredibles better from a movie standpoint, but nothing I have encountered yet touches that scene from a pure low-end bass rumble standpoint. Again, I don't know just how low it goes, but my butt, chest, couch, walls, chimney flu, and window's all tell me that this scene is the most powerful I have heard to date. I have tried as many as I can. some honorable mentions are Haunting, FOF, Hitchhiker's guide, U571, BHD, All 3 LOTR's, and M&C.

Above all, enjoy the sound.
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post #185 of 735 Old 05-04-2006, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

Have you run frequency sweeps

Newbie question: how does one run frequency sweeps? What do I need to do this? Thanks.
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post #186 of 735 Old 05-04-2006, 10:49 AM
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spl meter, and an audio test cd--very popular in the car audio world, and graph paper is the bare essentials. There are of course many online programs that you can use your computer to generate the tones. play each sine wave (frequency note) one at a time and graph the results. Also a spl meter compensation chart comes in handy so you will be more accurate--what is the point of going through all of the effort if the result isn't going to be that good. This will give you a good idea of what the frequency response is in your room.

Above all, enjoy the sound.
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post #187 of 735 Old 05-04-2006, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by union1411 View Post

Newbie question: how does one run frequency sweeps? What do I need to do this? Thanks.

Well, you need

a) Something to produce test tones at different frequencies
b) Something to measure sound level

Then use those 2 things to measure the sound output of each / all / selected speakers at different frequencies, and write down the results. That'll give you something to see how your system is performing, and allows you to make adjustments to improve it. Typically people create the fancy graphs based on this that show a line indicating the sound's loudness at different frequencies.

For (a), you can use a CD with test tones (you can download stuff from the internet to burn a CD on your computer) or you can use software that you can find on the internet, one popular one being RoomEQ Wizard, that you run on a PC connected to your speakers (usually through a receiver).

For (b) the popular choice is a Radio Shack Sound Meter. It'll show you how loud sound is.

If you use RoomEQ Wizard (software you run on a PC) and connect the Radio Shack meter to your PC (as described on the RoomEQ Wizard site) you can do a lot of the stuff automatically and much faster.

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post #188 of 735 Old 05-04-2006, 06:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bsheldon View Post

Azn_plyr,

Your quote:

"O btw, The Incredibles > WOTW in the bass department IMO."

While your are certainly entitled to your opinion and I have no doubt that Incredibles does sound better on your system than does WOTW, I must totally disagree. Now granted I will admit that the Incredibles has some good bass scenes, nor have I compared waterfall graphs, but the bass in Incredibles is nowhere near the level and depth of scene 4 (1st tripod rising) of WOW. Again the H100 may not quite be up to depth and rumble of this scene, hence the reason you like Incredibles better. Well, actually I LIKE incredibles better from a movie standpoint, but nothing I have encountered yet touches that scene from a pure low-end bass rumble standpoint. Again, I don't know just how low it goes, but my butt, chest, couch, walls, chimney flu, and window's all tell me that this scene is the most powerful I have heard to date. I have tried as many as I can. some honorable mentions are Haunting, FOF, Hitchhiker's guide, U571, BHD, All 3 LOTR's, and M&C.


Actually, I should've wrote more details, WOTW no doubt goes lower and stronger, as a matter of fact, it shook my little room and doors up much more than the incredibles did, but it just did not have the impact. There's a long and low rumble that shook everything up, but it did not give me a thump to the chest hehe. When Mr. Incredibles knock that robot down, that was very breath taking if I am saying this correctly. So that's what I meant, but hey, it is true that I might enjoy WOTW's bass more if I had a better sub.
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post #189 of 735 Old 05-04-2006, 08:21 PM
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Nah, i think i'd agree on that. WotW seems to have lots of sustained rumbling and shaking while Incredibles has more "slam" i think. Different types of awesome bass

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post #190 of 735 Old 05-04-2006, 09:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

Have you calibrated the sub to match the speakers?
Have you run frequency sweeps to see what kind of frequency response you are getting? The location of your sub and/or listening position, combined with room acoustics, could give you good bass at some frequencies, but could also suck out the bass at others, making HT less than spectacular.

Let me first apologize by saying that I'm a dumb@ss. The reason, the SUB was so low was because when I did the Auto EZset/EQ on my receiver, it turned the SUB down -9dB and the gain on the sub was set to 1/4 (9 o'clock)!

I reset all my speakers to small and set the cross over to 80Hz and re-ran the Auto EZset/EQ again.

Then, I ran the MANUAL test tones. Not really sure if I did it correctly, but I made a reference point of 70dB (which was -28 on the receiver). I made sure all 5 speakers are around 69 - 71db and when I got to the SUB. I made a HUGE jump. It was up to 104dB. Yes, I like house rocking bass. Mind you, this setting was done the following way:

SUB's gain is about 1/3 of the way up (10 - 11 o'clock). And I set the SUB to 0db in the receiver.

Ok, so I selected scenes from The Incredibles again and man! It rocks!!!!

Scenes to watch:

- When Mr. I knocks the Iron ball into the tree.
- When the Iron ball starts rolling after Mr. I. This part made my floor vibrate. It felt like the ball was coming towards me.
- When Dash went into the tunnel and the rocket ship takes off

Damn, I LOVE my SVS PB-10!!!!!!

Ok, I eat my words and I have to say that "The Incredibles" rock!

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post #191 of 735 Old 05-04-2006, 09:22 PM
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Ok, next is the frequency sweep for me. Does the Avia disk do that? I should have gotten the package when I got the SVS sub!!!! Now, I'm going piecemeal and will end up paying a lot more.

How exactly does the frequency disk work? They play a tone....say 50hz. But how do you know it's 50Hz? The Radio Shack SPL that I have only tells me how loud it is (in dBs), but it doesn't tell me how high or low the sound is. Maybe it's time for me to so a search and do some reading.

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post #192 of 735 Old 05-05-2006, 07:49 AM
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get a disc with individual test tones. mine coincides with the track number. ie track number 20 is a 20hz sine wave, track number 21 is 21hz sine wave...all the way up to 100. It has a bunch of sweeps from various points before that. THe sweeps are nice to watch your meter with. say a 200-20hz sweep. the meter should stay as constant as possible throughout the entire sweep. say you use 70 db as your base, just fine, the sweep should start close to that and stay close to that all the way through. I would suggest that you re-calibrate more than just a bit 34db HOT is aWAY, WAY TOO hot. I can't imagine you can hear the movie at all with the rumble of the sub. 3-6db hot is pretty normal for bassheads. Even extreme bass junkies only go up to about 8-10db hot. ANymore and it way too distracting. I normally listen about 4db hot. I was playing with a bass disc and turned it up to about 10db hot manually on the sub. I forgot about it and left it there when I started to watch a movie the next day, immediately I knew something was wrong--I checked the setting on the receiver they were the same so I just concluded the disc was recorded REAL hot and turned the settings down 5db. after the movie and I turned the lights back on, I looked at the sub an sure enough found the culprit. I can't imagine enjoying even 10db hot, let alone 34. That is about 5-6 times louder than your mains. Heck I watched a movie last night after doing a demo the night before and I noticed the bass was too hot. (I turn the bass up 3db's for demos) I understand that different people like what they like and if you do like it that hot enjoy it. I am kind of hoping I miss read that a bit. The way I understood what you said was that you calibrated to 104db and hence the above paragraph. But if you are saying it was peaking at about 104db that is a whole other thing and then ignore the above.

BTW, Speaking of the movie I watched last night, since this is the point of this entire thread, I watched "Under the Skin." It stars the short-haired, uniquely sexy, british actress Samantha Morton. I had seen her before in Minority Report and In america. This was aher break out film back in '97. It could have been called "lots of Samantha's skin" as you get to see lots of her frequently. That in and of itself made it a watchable movie. It is a bit disturbing, and I did cringed a few times. the reason I bring it up is there are a few scenes where she is in a night club and the bass is very strong. It is one of those movies where you could watch it without a sub at all outside of these few scenes and not know the difference. I was a bit taken aback by the intensity of these couple scenes. I think more from a juxtopostional standpoint than anything. The ones scene in particular has some club music with a very fast and powerful bass line. i rewatched/listened to that scene just to hear the subs work that fast and transition from one note to the next that fast at such a level.

Above all, enjoy the sound.
You gotta love the internet.
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post #193 of 735 Old 05-05-2006, 10:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadd View Post

Ok, next is the frequency sweep for me. Does the Avia disk do that? I should have gotten the package when I got the SVS sub!!!! Now, I'm going piecemeal and will end up paying a lot more.

How exactly does the frequency disk work? They play a tone....say 50hz. But how do you know it's 50Hz? The Radio Shack SPL that I have only tells me how loud it is (in dBs), but it doesn't tell me how high or low the sound is. Maybe it's time for me to so a search and do some reading.


You can still get it from SVS. I think it's $80 for the meter and the Avia disk.


Definitely run the sweep tones, which start at one frequency and go through all the frequencies to the last one (ie., start at 200Hz and go down to 20Hz). If the bass is really "bumpy", you need to experiment with placement as much as you can to get it as flat as you can (no more than 10dB difference between any 2 frequencies, less variation is even more desireable - flat is the most desireable).

There are also test discs you can get (or burn on your own using test tone mp3s) that have an individual sine wave for frequencies. You would know which frequency it is by the track number. Ie., the downloads section here has different sine waves, sweeps, and bass-heavy songs: http://www.realmofexcursion.com/

Yes, 34dB hot is WAY TOO HOT. I would assume that you have some big peaks in there throwing it off. Definitely check how flat/even the response is, and then re-calibrate after tweaking location.

If the sub is flat AND 30dB hot, then you are pushing your sub to reference level at -30 below (ie., -30 on the dial of reference level set to "0" on the dial). If the sub is relatively flat, and you set it so it reads the same SPL as the mains with test tones, then you are already about 2dB hot. If that's not enough bass for you, you need to watch at about -10 or -5, not turn up the bass. I have a feeling the response with your current placement sucks, and that's why you feel the need to run the sub so hot. If you listen to any music, it will definitely sound bad that way. Before I calibrated my sub, I had it at just under 1/2-way on the sub gain and a fe notches under the level of the speakers on the receiver. Movies sounded good, but music was very boomy and I couldn't turn it up very high at all. When I calibrated, I found out I was about 10-15dB hot. When I turned it down to match the speakers (-3 below other speaker levels on the receiver, 1/3 on the sub gain for me), music became much more natural, and I could watch movies (and music) at much higher volumes, and the bass in movies suddenly had a ton of detail rather than just being a series of boomy one-note booms.

See this thread to read about my experience experimenting with placement, and finally getting the sub's calibration in line:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=640646
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post #194 of 735 Old 05-05-2006, 06:47 PM
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Thanks for the the response. Yes, I guess I'm running 34dB hotter with my sub.

To clearify, when I use my receiver's test tones, I set all 5 speakers (L, C, R, SR & SL) to about 70dB. When it's the SUB's turn, it goes to 104dB. So, yes......with my receiver at volume knob at "-28", my 5 speakers were around 69 - 71dB......and the SUB was at 103dB (it was constantly around 102dB - 103dB on the Radio Shack meter)......and it made the whole room vibrate. Everything was rattling.

But for some reason, when I turn up the volume when I listen to music or watch DVDs, the bass isn't too bad at all. Perhaps you're right.....perhaps, the Sub location sucks. The sub is located just in front of the FR speaker (next to a wall). I'll try to post up a pic.

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post #195 of 735 Old 05-05-2006, 10:29 PM
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My vote would be Friday..

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post #196 of 735 Old 05-06-2006, 01:52 AM
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Friday???? Friday the 13th? What movie are you talking about?

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post #197 of 735 Old 05-06-2006, 07:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbri View Post

You can still get it from SVS. I think it's $80 for the meter and the Avia disk.

yup...

just ordered them from them as all the RSs around me only have the digital SPLs. had my 12+/2 for a few weeks now and need to get that thing tuned (though it certainly makes its presence know even at factory defaults .

don't know if anyone's mentioned this one yet but Star Wars IV (a.k.a. "A New Hope", "Star Wars") sounds pretty cool at the end when Luke pops a cap in the Death Star - shook the pictures in the basement as well as the surrounds (need to tighten up those wall mounts I guess).
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post #198 of 735 Old 05-06-2006, 07:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadd View Post

Friday???? Friday the 13th? What movie are you talking about?


Man I'm gonna get you high today because it's Friday you aint got no job and you aint got chit to do

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post #199 of 735 Old 05-06-2006, 01:59 PM
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I wonder why nobody has mentioned Event Horizon special collectors edition. As a nice bonus there is dts track available, even though it is not advertised on the cover. It would be interesting to see both the amplitude and depth of extension posted on a waterfall chart, this movie will identify any loose fixtures in your house for those of us that use their living rooms as home theater rooms!
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post #200 of 735 Old 05-06-2006, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D.T. MIKE View Post

I wonder why nobody has mentioned Event Horizon special collectors edition. As a nice bonus there is dts track available, even though it is not advertised on the cover. It would be interesting to see both the amplitude and depth of extension posted on a waterfall chart, this movie will identify any loose fixtures in your house for those of us that use their living rooms as home theater rooms!

I already did

The scene where the drive engages has some intense bass.

my NADs are new
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post #201 of 735 Old 05-06-2006, 02:45 PM
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Wargames (1983)
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post #202 of 735 Old 05-07-2006, 06:11 AM
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Saw Assault on Precinct 13 last night.......... Ok'ish film but the bass was wicked, from the firing of the weapons which hit you right in the chest to the explosions which moved the foundations of my house a couple of inches
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post #203 of 735 Old 05-07-2006, 10:56 AM
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It's been mentioned before, but I just watched Downfall last night for the first time with a top flight bass system.

Great film with wonderful, subtle bass. The constant, distant artillery was rarely loud, but seemed to be at a very low frequency. I got my money's worth from my SVS 16-46 PC+ and Buttkicker. It really gave a great impression of what it might be like to be in a bunker during a bombardment.
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post #204 of 735 Old 05-07-2006, 11:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharger View Post

Saw Assault on Precinct 13 last night.......... Ok'ish film but the bass was wicked, from the firing of the weapons which hit you right in the chest to the explosions which moved the foundations of my house a couple of inches

Yeah, good sound on this one, but again I think I'd put this movie in the "sucks" category...
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post #205 of 735 Old 05-07-2006, 12:32 PM
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Thought I had Titan AE, but didn't. Couldn't find it in stores, so I got a used one at a clearance store. It was in perfect condition. Started watching this for the first time with my PB12+/2. Damn. Had to stop with 30 minutes to go as it got to 11:00 PM. Didn't want police to break down my door as I would not have been able to hear them knocking.

This is what I like about animated movies. They can do whatever they want without the physical limits of live action or using hoakey looking CG.

I will probably watch this in its entirety tonight, but will start a little earlier in the evening.

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post #206 of 735 Old 05-08-2006, 06:20 PM
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OFF TOPIC:

What is the official "quiet time"? Is it 10pm? 11pm? Does it vary by state? How about in the AM? When can you start blasting music?

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post #207 of 735 Old 05-08-2006, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cadd View Post

OFF TOPIC:

What is the official "quiet time"? Is it 10pm? 11pm? Does it vary by state? How about in the AM? When can you start blasting music?

In California it's 10:00 PM, if anyone complains. The police won't come to your door unless called. I believe that dawn becomes open season again.

Randy
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post #208 of 735 Old 05-09-2006, 06:54 AM
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whatever your wife says it is...

seriously, I got chewed out for rumbling the kids rooms two floors up during The Sopranos theme the other night - geez, I only had it at -20...
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post #209 of 735 Old 05-09-2006, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
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I believe that dawn becomes open season again.

That line made me laugh.
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post #210 of 735 Old 05-09-2006, 10:38 AM
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Don't think it was mentioned yet but a GOOD movie with really good bass:

Kung Fu Hustle
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Reply Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

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