Discussion of The New SB12-Plus and PB12-NSD from SVS - AVS Forum
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Old 09-02-2006, 06:52 PM - Thread Starter
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I had the pleasure of having an exclusive demo of the new SVS SB-12 Plus and PB12-NSD at Art's meet a few weeks back. First of all I would like to say I am someone who has be able to get past the constant tweaking that can obsess the best HT person. I have learned to enjoy gear and the enjoyment I now have while listening or viewing A/V has increased 10 fold.

What I am going to share with you here is not graphs or technical numbers that so many here get over come by and worry about instead of actually enjoying their or others gear. You are going to get the reality of the SB-12 Plus and PB12-NSD , they are great subwoofers.

First the SB-12 Plus:
At first glance you will be surprised as to how compact and clean looking the sealed SB-12 Plus is. This sub can easily be hidden away under a side table or tucked away in a corner out of sight. But that is not what you are going to want to do with it. It really is one of the most attractive subs I have ever seen due to size and finish. The unit I was able to demo was finished in piano black and looks smaller than it really is. I would have to say on the WAF (wife acceptance factor) scale 1-10, the SB-10 Plus is definitely a 10.

The room I demoed the sub in was roughly15x20x8. The floor was carpet with extra thick padding on slab. Material was misc. music and the Blue Man Group Complex DVD.

The SB-12 Plus simply felt and sounded right. The bass blended seamlessly with the SVS SBS-01 speakers. The sub was musical and was able to keep up with the challenging beat of the Blue Man disc. Starting at $699.00, this sub is a steal.



Now for the PB12-NSD

In the same room there was an A/B switch to toggle between the SB-12 Plus and the PB12-NSD. After I was done with my demo on the SB-12 Plus, I demoed the PB12-NSD.

The PB-12 NSD is a bit different than the SB-12 Plus. It is over twice the size of the SB-12 Plus. These two subs are different animals that offer excellent bass. I have a PB2+ at home and I could not believe how much the PB-12 NSD and my PB2+ sounded alike. Bass was deep and clean. I felt that the PB-12 NSD has raised the bar in the price range of $599.00 subwoofers.

I have been around here for some time and have seen plenty of the this sub vs that sub threads and many threads asking for recommendations on which sub to purchase. If you are a no nonsense HT enthusiest who just wants to purchase a great product and enjoy it without having to get caught up in all the details, the SB-12 Plus or PB-12 NSD is for you. Depending on if size matters to you or if it doesn't, either one of these subs will make you smile.

Here are some pics from the demo. Please share your experiences and thoughts. No bashing please, stay on topic of discussion about these two subs. This is intended for support in helping AVS members with their questions about these two products. Thanks for your anticipated cooperation.

Kipp
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Old 09-02-2006, 07:18 PM - Thread Starter
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The first image is the SB-12 Plus in Piano Black and the second is the PB-12 NSD in the lower left in colored Sterling Silver.

Kipp
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Old 09-02-2006, 07:20 PM - Thread Starter
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In the image with the SB-12 Plus, just compare the size of the SB-12 Plus to the DVD to the left. That will help you scale how small this sub really is. Size is very misleading to performance in this case.

Kipp
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Old 09-02-2006, 07:24 PM
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Thanks Kipp. This is the kind of review that helps cut through all the techno speak. I had started a thread earlier today because I knew of the GTG, but hadn't heard any comments. To keep from diluting this thread, I will have mine closed.

Is music all you listened to on both subs?

Was there a noticeable difference in SQ or depth. Of course the PB should be deeper than the SB, but did you notice. you should have had some deep dwellers on the BMG CD.

Because SVS has now pushed the MTS speakers into Spring '07, I would also like to hear impressions on the SBS speakers.

Ron S. told me this setup was near the beer, so a lot of folks should have had the chance to hear them.

I anxiously await EMs review and measurements of these subs and hopefully the speakers as well. Ed, it's time to pressure Ron for all the new stuff at SVS. You and JJ have some catching up to do.

Randy
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Old 09-02-2006, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi ransac,
I agree, some of us just want the reality of a product, not all the theory. The appearance, sound and feel is what counts. Its about time we get back to the basics and start enjoying our gear and not worry about the technical details once the gear is properly tuned.

I primarily listened to music but demoed Sky Captian and a few other flicks. Bass was clean and tight.

I did notice a difference between the two in terms of performance but I would not say one was better than the other. It just depends on what you are looking to get from a sub.

ScottADowns will be posting his review of the SBS soon in the speaker forum. He has them at home. I however really enjoyed them. They were detailed with excellent imaging from that size of a speaker. Never once did they distort even when played very loud. I was impressed. Some real bang for the buck.

Yes, the set up was in the room with the bar. I am sure almost everyone heard them. Hopefully those people will chime in here to share their thoughts and impressions.

Kipp
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Old 09-03-2006, 08:18 AM
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Wow, the size difference between those two subs is almost comical!

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

Quote:

J Dunlavy:.. if you stop to think about it, no loudspeaker can sound more accurate than it measures.

 

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Old 09-03-2006, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipp Jones
I have a PB2+ at home and I could not believe how much the PB-12 NSD and my PB2+ sounded alike. Bass was deep and clean. I felt that the PB-12 NSD has raised the bar in the price range of $599.00 subwoofers.
Wow... I think that really says a lot. Very interesting...
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Old 09-03-2006, 11:00 PM - Thread Starter
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No kidding. It does say alot.

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Old 09-04-2006, 12:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipp Jones
No kidding. It does say alot.
Does your PB2+ have the .1 or .2 drivers? The .3 has vacated the performance level of the .1 and .2 and left that performance level for the NSD to occupy. The .3 has moved in the direction of the Ultra, but the Ultra should be ramping up their performance level soon. So the question is if you felt the NSD was as good as the 12.3.

Randy
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Old 09-04-2006, 06:02 AM
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Kip, I didn't focus my attension on JUST the sub. One thing I noticed was how well the system worked together as a whole.
SVS really did their home work to have such great sound coming in at such a great price.
I think the system could have filled a room twice the size and I have already recommended it to a close friend.
When listening to the Blue Man Group demo, (always a good test for bass) it handled that very active sound track very well.

Craig

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Old 09-04-2006, 10:23 AM
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The size of the two subs was amazing. They both sounded amazing also. The PB12 really looks good. Typical SVS SUPERSIZED. The SB-12 was so small I wanted to hold it and cuddle with it!!!

As for sound as Kipp has explained the two subs sound great. But you can really tell when the big guy was on. Don't get me wrong the SB-12 rocked the house. But size does matter. The Pb-12 really cranked when I turned up the gain half way about 11PM and after 20 beers. That sub was hittin so hard the walls were shakin.

Ron from SVS came in and was looking around like "What the hell is that my sub". I was like Ron you were being to modest with it. Lets crank that bad boy up!!!!! Ron and Kipp turned up the Blue Man group. Then the neighbors complained. Now thats a sign of power.

SVS has really done a great job with those bad boys. If you need a small sub get the SB12 if you want a bigger sub with a tad bit more ummmphhhh get the big one. I know IM going to be selling the dual PB10's and upgrading to one PB12 NSD. From what Ron has said the PB12 is equal or if not better than the two PB10's. Now thats some power.

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Old 09-04-2006, 12:09 PM
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great legs
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Old 09-04-2006, 06:05 PM
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Does someone know and can explain the difference in performance(if any) of the new side-firing PB12 NSD versus the downfiring PB12 NSD?? I have the upgraded NSD driver in my (formerly) PB12 ISD, and was curious as to any differences and why they changed away from downfiring? Thx..
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Old 09-04-2006, 07:11 PM
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How close are the neighbours?
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Old 09-04-2006, 07:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 5150zx
Does someone know and can explain the difference in performance(if any) of the new side-firing PB12 NSD versus the downfiring PB12 NSD?? I have the upgraded NSD driver in my (formerly) PB12 ISD, and was curious as to any differences and why they changed away from downfiring? Thx..
The new PB12-NSD has larger effective internal volume. They eliminated SVS signature plate, and increase the size of the cabinet and port tube. That has increased the low end extention and native tunning to 18 hz, with another 3hz to 5hz in room possible. The BASH amp has also been upgraded.

Basically, (and this is just my opinion), they wanted to capitalize on the design and performance success of the hugely popular PB10-NSD. The PB10-NSD gained the reputation of being able to compete very effectively in a mid to moderately large room with the big boys while staying relatively flat. The PB12-NSD has the same flatness, (measured outside, dead flat between 18zh and around 70hz, with about a 2db drop from 70hz to about 150hz), as the PB10, but with a lower native tuning gobs of power.

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Old 09-05-2006, 07:57 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pradeep
How close are the neighbours?

Well, I may be wrong, but I am going to guess about 150 feet from his house. :)

Craig

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Old 09-05-2006, 09:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfsBane
The new PB12-NSD has larger effective internal volume. They eliminated SVS signature plate, and increase the size of the cabinet and port tube. That has increased the low end extention and native tunning to 18 hz, with another 3hz to 5hz in room possible. The BASH amp has also been upgraded.

Basically, (and this is just my opinion), they wanted to capitalize on the design and performance success of the hugely popular PB10-NSD. The PB10-NSD gained the reputation of being able to compete very effectively in a mid to moderately large room with the big boys while staying relatively flat. The PB12-NSD has the same flatness, (measured outside, dead flat between 18zh and around 70hz, with about a 2db drop from 70hz to about 150hz), as the PB10, but with a lower native tuning gobs of power.
Many thanks for the reply.
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Old 09-05-2006, 03:40 PM
 
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Quote:
From what Ron has said the PB12 is equal or if not better than the two PB10's. Now thats some power.
I somehow doubt that. Two PB10's co-located should approach or equal the clean output capabilities of a single PB12 Ultra. Unless the new NSD driver surpasses the "old" TC-SOUNDS, I seriously doubt the claim that a PB12 is "equal to if not better than two PB10's". The extra surface area of the 12" woofer (compared to the 10") should provide a clean 1.5-2 dB increase.

Kind regards,
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Old 09-05-2006, 05:46 PM
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THANK YOU for posting pictures!

I've been considering the PB10 or PB12 and my wife would KILL ME if I set that silver PB12 up in our brand new family room! Looks like it's going to be the SB12 now! :)
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Old 09-05-2006, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jnanadev
THANK YOU for posting pictures!

I've been considering the PB10 or PB12 and my wife would KILL ME if I set that silver PB12 up in our brand new family room! Looks like it's going to be the SB12 now! :)
The PB10 and the PB12 also come in black and white.

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Old 09-05-2006, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipp Jones
I have a PB2+ at home and I could not believe how much the PB-12 NSD and my PB2+ sounded alike.
Kipp, how would you say the new NSD compares to the Plus or the Ultra?
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Old 09-05-2006, 06:17 PM
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oh my god, that PB-12 is MASSIVE! I ordered one for my tiny ass studio im living in, haha this is going to be hilarious, im really gonna piss off the neighbors
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Old 09-06-2006, 04:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoundsGood
Kipp, how would you say the new NSD compares to the Plus or the Ultra?
It is very close in performance to the Plus.

Kipp
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Old 09-06-2006, 05:48 PM
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To Anyone that pre ordered the PB12-NSD, did any of you get a shipping confirmation yet? I thought shipping was to commence at the first week of September. Just wondering.....I'm drooling....I want my sub. :)
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Old 09-06-2006, 06:19 PM
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Not yet.

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Old 09-06-2006, 06:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kipp Jones
It is very close in performance to the Plus.
Which drivers do you have?

Randy
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Old 09-06-2006, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WolfsBane
The new PB12-NSD has larger effective internal volume. They eliminated SVS signature plate, and increase the size of the cabinet and port tube. That has increased the low end extention and native tunning to 18 hz, with another 3hz to 5hz in room possible. The BASH amp has also been upgraded.

Basically, (and this is just my opinion), they wanted to capitalize on the design and performance success of the hugely popular PB10-NSD. The PB10-NSD gained the reputation of being able to compete very effectively in a mid to moderately large room with the big boys while staying relatively flat. The PB12-NSD has the same flatness, (measured outside, dead flat between 18zh and around 70hz, with about a 2db drop from 70hz to about 150hz), as the PB10, but with a lower native tuning gobs of power.
I'd guess it would be a cost saving move also, given the elimination of the base plate along with its accompaniment of components.
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Old 09-06-2006, 07:22 PM - Thread Starter
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ScottADowns,
Are you selling your two PB10s to upgrade???

Kipp
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Old 09-06-2006, 08:14 PM
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YA Kipp IM going to be upgrading soon. I have to sell the Twins first. IM going put them up on eBay soon.

If you give a man a fish, he'll eat for a day. If you teach a man to fish, he'll sit in a boat and drink beer all day.
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Old 09-06-2006, 08:25 PM
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Hi,
I talked to Eric today at SVS and he told me that they are hoping to start shipping the folks who ordered on the first day of pre-oreder this Friday. I ordered on the second or third day and he said I would most likely get the notice of shipment the first of next week. :)

Like you ....I am very excited about this bad boy :D

Just passing along info :)
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