High SPLs with deep (12hz-15hz) extension? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 31 Old 10-03-2006, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I recently got myself into DJing and have loved it so far. Making quite a bit of money. Currently bringing my DLS-5000R with me since I don't want to buy dedicated subwoofers just for DJing since I'll be dropping it in a few years. I've been recommended the Danley DTS-20 since that supposedly has alot of output and deep extension. Reason I still want the sound quality and extension is I'm still going to be using this in my house. Are there any other subs out there with as much power and extension as the DTS-20 for around $3500-$4000? I really don't want to spend much more that $2500 though, but if it is something I can keep for years to come I'll buy it.

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post #2 of 31 Old 10-03-2006, 08:57 PM
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Does it have to be premade or are you willing to build it?
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post #3 of 31 Old 10-04-2006, 03:35 AM
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I'd take a look at the rest of the Danley line ... They have some smaller units with similar output, perhaps not 100%, but very respectable.
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post #4 of 31 Old 10-04-2006, 03:43 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SteveCallas View Post

Does it have to be premade or are you willing to build it?

If I can beat those specs and have it cheaper I could build it.

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post #5 of 31 Old 10-04-2006, 05:37 PM
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If I can beat those specs and have it cheaper I could build it.

Then browse the DIY section.

You know you want to...

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post #6 of 31 Old 10-04-2006, 05:39 PM
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Given that you want to transport it to venues, I would think a 7ft tall sonosub would be a little too large

The Danley would be hard to beat for the performance and enclosure size.
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post #7 of 31 Old 10-04-2006, 08:02 PM
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I wouldn't try to do this with one unit. IMHO you don't need 12-15 hz in a DJ sub. You could DIY a DJ sub that rocks at 30 hz and is transportable, then either use the Danley or another DIY sub that stays in your theater and can be as big as you need to hit 12 hz.

If you think this post was dumb, you really should read my blog=> http://bumpedhishead.blogspot.com/
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post #8 of 31 Old 10-04-2006, 08:33 PM
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i have 4 avalanch 18 in a ib and driven with 3200 wats from a qsc amp
subs were 400 a piece
amp was 1k

120 db@12hz priceless

if you are lucky enough to be irish you are lucky enough
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post #9 of 31 Old 10-04-2006, 08:42 PM
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Isn't it a little hard to move your house to every DJ event?

If you think this post was dumb, you really should read my blog=> http://bumpedhishead.blogspot.com/
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post #10 of 31 Old 10-04-2006, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv View Post

I wouldn't try to do this with one unit. IMHO you don't need 12-15 hz in a DJ sub. You could DIY a DJ sub that rocks at 30 hz and is transportable, then either use the Danley or another DIY sub that stays in your theater and can be as big as you need to hit 12 hz.

I totally agree with you billybob.High SPL Infrasonic bass for Dj work seems like a waste...
You should probably build something cheap that provides plenty of output from 30hz up, with no expectation of using it in your HT of course.

When you're done with DJing, sell those subs off and build something specifically designed for your HT.

Only time will tell what the future holds...so until then JAM LIKE THERES NO TOMORROW!
-Rob

My Natalie P project
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post #11 of 31 Old 10-05-2006, 12:23 AM
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what about the LAB 12's

go pretty hard and better suited to your needs
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post #12 of 31 Old 10-05-2006, 07:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theirishgonzo View Post

i have 4 avalanch 18 in a ib and driven with 3200 wats from a qsc amp
subs were 400 a piece
amp was 1k

120 db@12hz priceless

Ditto;

I have the same drivers with a different amp. With less than 2k invested, I can hit 110 dB at 10 Hz at my seated position which is 14 feet away from the drivers.

120@20@14'
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post #13 of 31 Old 10-05-2006, 03:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by theirishgonzo View Post

i have 4 avalanch 18 in a ib and driven with 3200 wats from a qsc amp
subs were 400 a piece
amp was 1k

120 db@12hz priceless

Where could I find these Avalanche 18s? And what do you mean by IB?

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post #14 of 31 Old 10-05-2006, 04:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv View Post

I wouldn't try to do this with one unit. IMHO you don't need 12-15 hz in a DJ sub. You could DIY a DJ sub that rocks at 30 hz and is transportable, then either use the Danley or another DIY sub that stays in your theater and can be as big as you need to hit 12 hz.

Not really going for the LFE for DJing, but for the sound quality. It's whats seperating us from the other companies in our area.

Does the DTS-20 have more output than say 2-4 DLS-5000Rs?

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post #15 of 31 Old 10-05-2006, 05:16 PM
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Spets

10 DLS-5000's won't get you much response below 25Hz. So, you need to know whether you are interested in a ton of output in the 35-100Hz range, or less output in that range and much more output from 25Hz down to ~12Hz, which the Danley. The Danley will be absolute killer for home use.
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post #16 of 31 Old 10-05-2006, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
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But output wise, which would be the absolute killer?

"The choices we make define our lives, because choice, not chance, determines destiny"

They call me the 18 year old DJ Audiophile-upgradeitis infected-guy!
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post #17 of 31 Old 10-05-2006, 06:43 PM
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You could get a single high performance PA driver from TC-Sounds, put it in a vented box tuned around the low-mid twenties, and get seriously nice output and SQ.
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post #18 of 31 Old 10-05-2006, 08:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks guys, I'll look into the DIY option through TC sounds. Would it still be reasonable for HT use?

"The choices we make define our lives, because choice, not chance, determines destiny"

They call me the 18 year old DJ Audiophile-upgradeitis infected-guy!
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post #19 of 31 Old 10-05-2006, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spezzy View Post

Thanks guys, I'll look into the DIY option through TC sounds. Would it still be reasonable for HT use?

Very resonable...
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post #20 of 31 Old 10-06-2006, 06:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spezzy View Post

Where could I find these Avalanche 18s? And what do you mean by IB?

Read about IB here:
http://ibsubwoofers.proboards51.com/index.cgi

Avalanche 18's haven't been made in about a year or so, however Ascendant Audio will be putting a few up on e-bay in the next week or two.

120@20@14'
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post #21 of 31 Old 10-06-2006, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spezzy View Post

But output wise, which would be the absolute killer?

Get a real sub for pro use that actually gets low. A DTS-20 would not be fun to transport. 4 of the DLS-5000s would probably keep up with a DTS-20 above ~35Hz, but below there the DTS-20 will run away with the show.

First understand that most pro subs have rediculously generous/creative specifications so far as low frequency extension. If you really want something portable and hugely impressive, pick up one of the Danley TH-115s. It has handles and integrated wheels and is a rather managable package to move in a large vehicle. If you have the space and the budget, a pair of these and a cheap but respectable pro amp will get you noise complaints reguarly while getting MUCH deeper, louder and cleaner than anything people are hearing in most clubs or from other DJs. These are 10x more efficient than the DTS-20s in the range they operate, and while the super deep stuff is fun, for DJ'n these would be the way to go. I believe they cost less than the DTS-20 as well at $2250-2500 last I had heard. Get a good pro amp and you are ready to roll. The Crown XTi series of amplifiers have EQ and crossover functions on-board and will get you rockin' & rolling.

You might also want to see if you can hunt down a Yorkville dealer and check out the Unity Series, U15 that uses a liscenced design of Tom Danley's. For the money and size, there isn't much that sounds better. Prop them on top of the TH-115s and you are good to go. If you splurge just a little more you could even get a pair of the Danley SH-100s which would also do very well.

Don't bother with most home products for continuous DJ use!

Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
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post #22 of 31 Old 10-06-2006, 09:32 AM
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Listen to Mr. Seaton...

He knows bass!
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post #23 of 31 Old 10-06-2006, 04:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Seaton View Post

Get a real sub for pro use that actually gets low. A DTS-20 would not be fun to transport. 4 of the DLS-5000s would probably keep up with a DTS-20 above ~35Hz, but below there the DTS-20 will run away with the show.

First understand that most pro subs have rediculously generous/creative specifications so far as low frequency extension. If you really want something portable and hugely impressive, pick up one of the Danley TH-115s. It has handles and integrated wheels and is a rather managable package to move in a large vehicle. If you have the space and the budget, a pair of these and a cheap but respectable pro amp will get you noise complaints reguarly while getting MUCH deeper, louder and cleaner than anything people are hearing in most clubs or from other DJs. These are 10x more efficient than the DTS-20s in the range they operate, and while the super deep stuff is fun, for DJ'n these would be the way to go. I believe they cost less than the DTS-20 as well at $2250-2500 last I had heard. Get a good pro amp and you are ready to roll. The Crown XTi series of amplifiers have EQ and crossover functions on-board and will get you rockin' & rolling.

You might also want to see if you can hunt down a Yorkville dealer and check out the Unity Series, U15 that uses a liscenced design of Tom Danley's. For the money and size, there isn't much that sounds better. Prop them on top of the TH-115s and you are good to go. If you splurge just a little more you could even get a pair of the Danley SH-100s which would also do very well.

Don't bother with most home products for continuous DJ use!

Thanks, I'll have to look into all of that.

Reason I still might consider the DTS-20 (self powered version) is I can get it used a bit from a friend for $2700 and I don't have to pay for shipping. Can the Crown XTi 1000 run 2 TH-115s hard enough or should I look at the more powerful ones?

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post #24 of 31 Old 10-07-2006, 07:44 AM
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I agree totally with Mark Seaton. You will probalby be dissappointed if you try to use the DTS 20 for DJ type music. Not that it will sound bad-It sound great with music and special effects, but it just won't get as loud as you probably need it to, unless you are doing very small events. Just moving the thing is a beast.

Why is your friend selling his? Just curious.

When you say loudest, you HAVE to say at what freq your are interested in. Without that spec, everything is meaningless-at least to those who really care. If all you want is LOUD, then use an Community M4 driver. It will get stupid loud, but only in the midrange area. Not very good for bass, but it is loud. You have to tie a freq to it in order for ti to mean anything.

For example, many manufacturers like to have seperate specs for the sensitivity and low freq capabilities of their cabinets. You HAVE to tie the 2 spec together to mean anything. There is one MAJOR manufacturer who rates their 2x18" cabinet sensitivity at 1800Hz. Is that really where you want to run your subs at? But it give a good high number that is real, it just doesn't do you any good.

Many times the low freq response (stated -3dB) is quite good looking, untill you really look at it. Often times it is 6-9dB below the rated sensitivity. How do they calim this-it all depends on how you interpet the numbers. If for example they claim +-3 dB as the response. This gives you a 6 dB window in which they can claim "flat" So the Sensitivity is actually at the very top of the window, and the "flat response is -6dB down from that. NOW you take another 3dB down to get the speced -3dB response. So it is really 9dB down from the peak. That is A LOT of power to make up-almost a factor of 10 X power.

You really have to look at the REAL specs if you want to get an idea of how they actually perform. You also need to know quite a bit about how the specs were actually measured, there are lots of games to play there also.

Danley uses quite conservative measurements-outdoor at a distance of 10M. Anybody with almost any type of measurement system can measure the same published specs. There are no special pulse tones, loading of mics or cabinets etc.


While the DTS20 is great for home, you need something that is quite a bit louder for DJ use. The TH115 would be great for a couple of reasons. Easy to transport, the loudest cabinet (that I know of) down at 40Hz, greater power capacity, easy to stack etc.

You can power them with any amp you want. You will get more out of them than other simular cabinets with the same power input because the sensitivity is so high. If you REALLY want to get the most out of them, I suggest something on the order of 2000Watts/cabinet. That is a BIG amp or you can use a smaller amp and bridge it. Just don't load it down below it rated BRIDGED impedance.

Be sure to use a Highpass filter (low cut) around 25hz. I prefer butterworth 24dB.octave to prevent overexcursion. Your low pass (high cut) will depend on the rest of your system.

Danley Sound Labs

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post #25 of 31 Old 10-07-2006, 01:46 PM
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Check out a LAB12. It will give you some extreamly low bass and will out perform most quad sub 15 setups. Horns as you prohbably already know are extreamly efficient and LOUD.
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post #26 of 31 Old 10-07-2006, 04:51 PM
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The TH115 is around 1/2 the weight and 1/2 the weight of the Lab 12. It also goes lower in singles than the Lab12.

Since he is wanting to only have a single sub for both purposes, the TH115 would be easier to tranport into his house and take up less space in his room.

The Lab 12 would be less expensive-assuming he has both the skill and tools to build it properly. It is not a beginners project. It also takes multiples to smooth out the freq response and go low. It is also a lower impedance so you cannot hook up as many to a single amplifier.

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post #27 of 31 Old 10-08-2006, 09:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan Beaver View Post

I agree totally with Mark Seaton. You will probalby be dissappointed if you try to use the DTS 20 for DJ type music. Not that it will sound bad-It sound great with music and special effects, but it just won't get as loud as you probably need it to, unless you are doing very small events. Just moving the thing is a beast.

Why is your friend selling his? Just curious.

When you say loudest, you HAVE to say at what freq your are interested in. Without that spec, everything is meaningless-at least to those who really care. If all you want is LOUD, then use an Community M4 driver. It will get stupid loud, but only in the midrange area. Not very good for bass, but it is loud. You have to tie a freq to it in order for ti to mean anything.

For example, many manufacturers like to have seperate specs for the sensitivity and low freq capabilities of their cabinets. You HAVE to tie the 2 spec together to mean anything. There is one MAJOR manufacturer who rates their 2x18" cabinet sensitivity at 1800Hz. Is that really where you want to run your subs at? But it give a good high number that is real, it just doesn't do you any good.

Many times the low freq response (stated -3dB) is quite good looking, untill you really look at it. Often times it is 6-9dB below the rated sensitivity. How do they calim this-it all depends on how you interpet the numbers. If for example they claim +-3 dB as the response. This gives you a 6 dB window in which they can claim "flat" So the Sensitivity is actually at the very top of the window, and the "flat response is -6dB down from that. NOW you take another 3dB down to get the speced -3dB response. So it is really 9dB down from the peak. That is A LOT of power to make up-almost a factor of 10 X power.

You really have to look at the REAL specs if you want to get an idea of how they actually perform. You also need to know quite a bit about how the specs were actually measured, there are lots of games to play there also.

Danley uses quite conservative measurements-outdoor at a distance of 10M. Anybody with almost any type of measurement system can measure the same published specs. There are no special pulse tones, loading of mics or cabinets etc.


While the DTS20 is great for home, you need something that is quite a bit louder for DJ use. The TH115 would be great for a couple of reasons. Easy to transport, the loudest cabinet (that I know of) down at 40Hz, greater power capacity, easy to stack etc.

You can power them with any amp you want. You will get more out of them than other simular cabinets with the same power input because the sensitivity is so high. If you REALLY want to get the most out of them, I suggest something on the order of 2000Watts/cabinet. That is a BIG amp or you can use a smaller amp and bridge it. Just don't load it down below it rated BRIDGED impedance.

Be sure to use a Highpass filter (low cut) around 25hz. I prefer butterworth 24dB.octave to prevent overexcursion. Your low pass (high cut) will depend on the rest of your system.

I really don't know why he is selling it, but I think he is in a bit of a financial problem.

I thank you for your advice on the highpass filter and low pass filter, as I don't know too much about that.

I think I will go with a single TH115 and a Crown XTi 4000. If there is any more advice on an amp that isn't more than $1000 and can power the TH115s very well, please let me know.

I emailed EDA marketing a few days ago for Danley pricing but I still haven't received a response. Does anyone know how much or where I can buy a TH115?

Thanks for all the help so far guys.

"The choices we make define our lives, because choice, not chance, determines destiny"

They call me the 18 year old DJ Audiophile-upgradeitis infected-guy!
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post #28 of 31 Old 10-09-2006, 06:05 AM
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I don't know why EDA hasn't responded to you. I am not sure if they deal with end users or just dealers.

You can get one from dB Audio & Video 770-534-7620. They are usually in stock.

Don't expect to do much price shopping with the Danley products. The selling prices are going to be within just a couple percent difference.

The TH115 will do fairly well in the home situation because of the high sensitivity. You can put a boost down low to pull up the deep bass. BUT DON'T do that when in a large room and pushing it. Of course, that applies to any loudspeaker.

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post #29 of 31 Old 02-24-2007, 12:25 AM
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hi
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post #30 of 31 Old 02-24-2007, 04:55 AM
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You need something tuned at 25Hz, heck even 30Hz or 35Hz, it wil give you a lot more SPL in the areas matter more for what you are going to do.

its not about linearity or deep bass, its about filling a room with sound, and you need not concern yourself with anything below 25Hz

I would check out these bad boys, trust me

http://www.worxaudio.com/product_desc_true.php?id=62
http://www.worxaudio.com/product_desc_true.php?id=64
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