JL Audio Fathom 13" Sub - Page 114 - AVS Forum
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post #3391 of 6785 Old 02-29-2008, 05:59 AM
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Anyone know what the power consumption is between the F112 and F113?

I'm leaning towards the F113, but that extra 1000 watts sounds like it consumes a lot more electricity.

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post #3392 of 6785 Old 02-29-2008, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scanido View Post

Anyone know what the power consumption is between the F112 and F113?

I'm leaning towards the F113, but that extra 1000 watts sounds like it consumes a lot more electricity.

Actually, for a given output level, the f113 consumes less than the f112 (it's more efficient)... it's only when you are entering the region beyond the f112's performance envelope that the f113 will draw more current so it will be for short durations only and well within the capacity of a typical household circuit.
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post #3393 of 6785 Old 02-29-2008, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmiles View Post

I'd go with another F113. Save the cash and figure out the cabling arrangement.

You need AC (it would be great if it was on the same circuit as F113 #1 if not a circuit on the same phase ie: same side of panel) and a balanced (XLR) cable between the two subs (this can be a good quality mic cable even such as Whirlwind for example or just make one, pins 1-1, 2-2 and 3-3).

Vada bing vada BOOM...


MMiles,

It's rather ironic you should post that. I have just as of this morning now have both Fathom F113's working courtesy of a spare XLR cable to slave the second Fathom. I have them on the same dedicated circuit. I am amazed at the change in the room response with the second sub playing.WOW, dual subs do make a difference. I am doing music during the day to test and movies tonight. First test disc will be Master and Commander.
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post #3394 of 6785 Old 03-01-2008, 06:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stenvik View Post

msmith_jl :

Just a question: If one have a pre/pro with 2 or 3 balanced outputs (XLR) for subwoofer, LFE left and right. What is best way to go.. have two F113 connected to each of outputs on processor or connect two f123 in a chain and one cable to processor ?

Thinking on buying denon avp-a1hd

Holy mackerel, that thing is complicated... very cool, too. I took a look through the Denon manual and it looks like the best approach would be to connect the Fathoms individually to the left and right sub outputs via XLR cables. The bass management of the Denon is pretty darned complete so this should allow you to adjust parameters for 2 channels or multi-channel on the fly.

To set up the Fathoms, you would run ARO independently for each subwoofer (one at a time).
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post #3395 of 6785 Old 03-01-2008, 08:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msmith_JL View Post

Holy mackerel, that thing is complicated... very cool, too. I took a look through the Denon manual and it looks like the best approach would be to connect the Fathoms individually to the left and right sub outputs via XLR cables. The bass management of the Denon is pretty darned complete so this should allow you to adjust parameters for 2 channels or multi-channel on the fly.

To set up the Fathoms, you would run ARO independently for each subwoofer (one at a time).

MSmith_JL,


Gee, that's what Ward told me to do last week! I still can't believe how much more dynamic and powerful the room is with the second Fathom operating. What would you recommend connection wise for the Denon 3808CI? It has no balanced dual sub outputs. Just a single RCA connection. I plan on running a Y splitter out of the Denon into two seperate RCA cables to each Fathom. I already have run ARO on each woofer seperately.
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post #3396 of 6785 Old 03-01-2008, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sharp1080 View Post

MSmith_JL,


Gee, that's what Ward told me to do last week!

At least we're consistent!

Quote:


I still can't believe how much more dynamic and powerful the room is with the second Fathom operating.

Everything gets better with a second sub. Output, FR, Dynamics, Resolution, you name it.

Quote:


What would you recommend connection wise for the Denon 3808CI? It has no balanced dual sub outputs. Just a single RCA connection. I plan on running a Y splitter out of the Denon into two seperate RCA cables to each Fathom. I already have run ARO on each woofer seperately.

That should work fine. If there isn't enough signal level for the Fathom's auto-turn on to work reliably, you may need to split the signal again at each Fathom and feed both the L and R RCA inputs.
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post #3397 of 6785 Old 03-01-2008, 01:43 PM
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proud new F113 owner here...

i ran the ARO test and according to the sub my level should be around +14

this seems to be at the tip top of the volume of the sub, is this normal?

the sub level on my Marantz receiver is set to "0"

i don't mind controlling the sub volume on the sub (maybe this is preferred?) but just was surprised that i had to turn (the sub volume) up that much

any help would be great

thanks!

brad
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post #3398 of 6785 Old 03-01-2008, 02:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwhitmore View Post

proud new F113 owner here...

i ran the ARO test and according to the sub my level should be around +14

this seems to be at the tip top of the volume of the sub, is this normal?

the sub level on my Marantz receiver is set to "0"

i don't mind controlling the sub volume on the sub (maybe this is preferred?) but just was surprised that i had to turn (the sub volume) up that much

any help would be great

thanks!

brad

Hey Brad,

Manville will give the official response here, but I ran into the same thing when setting up my F113.

ARO may require nearly maxxing the volume for its equalization purposes, but you'll switch back from that (between the reference and variable switch) to your AVR or pre-pro calibrated level once ARO is done. Check back through the manual for the exact procedure...

BTW, do you know any Lindemans from Rochester NY?

Enjoy the little black beast--it is amazing...

Phil

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post #3399 of 6785 Old 03-01-2008, 02:25 PM
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Brad,

I had the same problem here on setup. I actually ran ARO again before readjusting the master level and somehow when I ran it the second time the LED lit up solid? Are any of you using the Fathom's LP filter and crossover settings for HT or just using your pre-pro's controls. I'm not sure if I have my levels too high,or just getting used to dual subs putting out some serious SPL's. I believe it's the latter.
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post #3400 of 6785 Old 03-02-2008, 09:13 AM
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During calibration, the pre-pro's sub level is immaterial. The tones are internally generated in the Fathom.

It is quite common to have to raise the Fathom's level to almost max for calibration. Especially, if there is low-freq. noise (HVAC, typically) in the room or if its a large space. The Fathom needs a lot of level above the noise floor to get a clean measurement. Once ARO has done its thing, then you will reduce the Level and calibrate the subwoofer level for your system.
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post #3401 of 6785 Old 03-02-2008, 10:11 AM
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Okay round two. I went thru the required demo discs of both music and movies. If there are sub bass notes in the recording the Fathoms will reproduce them easily. I still need to play with them a little more with positioning further away from the walls to dial it in correctly. I now know that two Fathom 113's are just right for my 20x15ft room.

I've definitely found every loose item nearby. I'm still grinning ear to ear, these subwoofers really have the theater room and house shaking. I stood outside listening to a tone sweep disc and watched the front door and windows vibrate!
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post #3402 of 6785 Old 03-02-2008, 05:36 PM
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I was watching Ratatoulie last night. My wife came running down to the HT and complained that the lamps in the great room were rattling and the floor shaking. YES!!!
(twin fathom 11s)
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post #3403 of 6785 Old 03-02-2008, 06:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kansashick View Post

I was watching Ratatoulie last night. My wife came running down to the HT and complained that the lamps in the great room were rattling and the floor shaking. YES!!!
(twin fathom 11s)

If you guys want to avoid divorce, you can use the e.l.f. trim to dial back the extreme low end a bit... or you can leave it alone if bottom end is more important.
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post #3404 of 6785 Old 03-02-2008, 09:55 PM
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Just got my JL Audio F112 on Friday, and already I think i may have an issue.

When i push the "Demo" button and the sub sweeps through various frequencies, there is one moment in the demo where i can hear a faint clicking noise in the woofer. It goes on for about 10 sec on a certain frequency. It is noticeable if your a foot away.

Trying to narrow down the frequency, I downloaded the RealTraps frequency test CD and went through the various tracks. I immediately noticed that on track 2, which is the 20Hz test, I get the same faint clicking noise in the woofer. It makes a sound as if you graze your finger over the woofer, like a higher pich tapping/clicking noise, which is directly coming from inside the woofer. The clicking is audible from about a foot from the sub. Just to make sure i was over the limits of the sub, I took out my SPL meter and I measured the output at about 80db from 2meters away, which is within the limits of this sub., so i don't think its a distortion issue. The clicking progressively increases in volume as i get to 90db. It sounds abnormal.

I tested other frequencies and it happens only from about 15Hz - 23Hz starting at about 80db.

Is my Fathom defective????

Thanks All!!!

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post #3405 of 6785 Old 03-03-2008, 02:49 PM
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To the f113 owners

Can anybody post a excursion video of the driver under full excursion at really low frequencies?
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post #3406 of 6785 Old 03-03-2008, 03:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chengbin View Post

To the f113 owners

Can anybody post a excursion video of the driver under full excursion at really low frequencies?

JL Audio already has one on their site.

glennQ

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post #3407 of 6785 Old 03-04-2008, 04:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scanido View Post

Just got my JL Audio F112 on Friday, and already I think i may have an issue.

When i push the "Demo" button and the sub sweeps through various frequencies, there is one moment in the demo where i can hear a faint clicking noise in the woofer. It goes on for about 10 sec on a certain frequency. It is noticeable if your a foot away.

Trying to narrow down the frequency, I downloaded the RealTraps frequency test CD and went through the various tracks. I immediately noticed that on track 2, which is the 20Hz test, I get the same faint clicking noise in the woofer. It makes a sound as if you graze your finger over the woofer, like a higher pich tapping/clicking noise, which is directly coming from inside the woofer. The clicking is audible from about a foot from the sub. Just to make sure i was over the limits of the sub, I took out my SPL meter and I measured the output at about 80db from 2meters away, which is within the limits of this sub., so i don't think its a distortion issue. The clicking progressively increases in volume as i get to 90db. It sounds abnormal.

I tested other frequencies and it happens only from about 15Hz - 23Hz starting at about 80db.

Is my Fathom defective????

Thanks All!!!

Update:

So i called JL Audio and spoke to a technician and he too confirmed that it was a defect. I did some searching on this long thread and found a similar issue to mine:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1597

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showp...postcount=1617

Mine does not sound as bad as this users sub, but it is still apparent. Needless to say the good folks at Gensen here in Canada replaced it for me. Decided to take the opportunity and go all the way for the F113!!!

Will report back...

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post #3408 of 6785 Old 03-04-2008, 11:22 AM
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That's good news. We want to hear your opinion when your up and running.
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post #3409 of 6785 Old 03-05-2008, 08:15 AM
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Two disconcerting issues i noticed with my new F113

1) When listening at moderate levels (65db), the sub never turns on. I have the power switch set on AUTO and to get the sub to turn on i have to raise my volume to fairly loud levels above 80db. When i turn the volume back down to normal listening levels, the sub turns off!!! I would expect there should be enough input voltage to have the sub left on.

2) When nothing is connected to the sub, and it is solely turned on it's own, I hear a faint snow like sound (scratchy noise) coming from the woofer. I hear this about a foot away and in my very quiet listening room it can be noticeable. I played with the Ground/Isolated postions and i keep it at isolated since it removes a lower toned buzz, but even at this setting i still hear this snow-like sound.

Anyone have issues like these on their F113???

So far i can't say i've been pleased with this sub!!!

Mr- manville Smith???

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post #3410 of 6785 Old 03-05-2008, 08:21 AM
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1) It would appear you need to boost the sub-out volume on your AVR/pre and lower the gain knob on the JL sub to get back to the same calibrated level. Then the sub should have more input voltage for the auto-on to kick in even at lower main levels.

2) Are you using balanced input?

Jeremy Gillow
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post #3411 of 6785 Old 03-05-2008, 08:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvgillow View Post

1) It would appear you need to boost the sub-out volume on your AVR/pre and lower the gain knob on the JL sub to get back to the same calibrated level. Then the sub should have more input voltage for the auto-on to kick in even at lower main levels.

2) Are you using balanced input?

Currently i have my sub set at -5 in my receiver, so i'll trying re-calibrating to 0.

I am using RCA interconnects, but even without it connected I still hear this snow-like noise. I even tried the F113 on a different outlet and same thing! My other components don't exhibit ANY noises at all.

To be clear, this is actually the second F113 as the first one i got had the same issue, albeit it was much louder with this snow-like sound. If i were to change this sub out yet again it would be the THIRD time and frankly I am tired of moving this thing around!!! First was the F112 clicking, then the first F113 with the louder snow noise and now this one with the same thing!!!!

My gain is set on Variable and i tried the setting on 0 - MAX and i still hear this noise, no matter the setting.

Is this normal??? Is anyone hearing this in their subs. I don't recall hearing this when i had the F112, so maybe it's just a bad batch that went to Canada???

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post #3412 of 6785 Old 03-05-2008, 09:12 AM
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It is normal to hear noises coming from the woofer when there is no input. But it's not normal that you can hear it a foot away. Normally you can only hear that sound when you're putting your ear on the woofer.
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post #3413 of 6785 Old 03-05-2008, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chengbin View Post

It is normal to hear noises coming from the woofer when there is no input. But it's not normal that you can hear it a foot away. Normally you can only hear that sound when you're putting your ear on the woofer.

I agree, and that would be acceptable to me if it was just a few inches away, but i hear at 1-2ft away and having all my other components dead quiet doesn't help.

I just tried plugging it in my Richard Gray 600s conditioner and same thing!

It's sad i waited for about a year to save up for this awesome sub and i get 3 duds in a row!!

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post #3414 of 6785 Old 03-05-2008, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scanido View Post

I agree, and that would be acceptable to me if it was just a few inches away, but i hear at 1-2ft away and having all my other components dead quiet doesn't help.

I just tried plugging it in my Richard Gray 600s conditioner and same thing!

It's sad i waited for about a year to save up for this awesome sub and i get 3 duds in a row!!



Strange issues indeed? I have two in operation and have had zero problems since the first day? It even helped me find and eliminate a ground loop with my Direct DVR box! I believe in the manual there's a section on noise issues with the sub.
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post #3415 of 6785 Old 03-05-2008, 09:56 AM
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Called tech support at JL Audio to hear what they say about this...and they said they will get back to me.

Hopefully i get a timely response on this.

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post #3416 of 6785 Old 03-05-2008, 01:46 PM
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scanido,

Sure sounds like a ground hum. Time to start unplugging things. Start with unplugging the input wire to the sub.

Samsung 64F8500, Panasonic 65VT50, Oppo 95, Tivo Roamio for OTA, Dish VIP722, Marantz AV8801 preamp, Rotel Amps, Atlantic Tech 8200 speakers, Seaton Submersive HP, Calman 5, Chromapure, Accupel DVG-5000, i1Display3pro, i1pro2, eecolor colorbox.
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post #3417 of 6785 Old 03-05-2008, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msmith_JL View Post

If you guys want to avoid divorce, you can use the e.l.f. trim to dial back the extreme low end a bit... or you can leave it alone if bottom end is more important.

Or just pay more attention to your wife's bottom end...

Mike Miles

ICR [ Sales Consulting and Small Part-Time AV shop, very small...  ]

Process Integration, Inc. [ contract sales consultant ]

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post #3418 of 6785 Old 03-05-2008, 02:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimP View Post

scanido,

Sure sounds like a ground hum. Time to start unplugging things. Start with unplugging the input wire to the sub.

Did you read my earlier posts?

I disconnected the input cables to the sub and disconnected all adjacent components from the same outlet the F113 was plugged to. Same thing. Tried on another outlet and same thing.

If it was a ground loop issue then i would think the gain control would amplify the ground noise when i turn down/up the level, in this case i gain control does nothing. It's still there at MIN level setting.

I could hear it about a foot away from the woofer, quite subtle, but it is there. I don't expect this from this level of gear!

In any case, the tech support rep i spoke to escalated it to the Director so i would think this hasn't happened before.

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post #3419 of 6785 Old 03-05-2008, 04:19 PM
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Hey scanido, I can only hear humming from my JL F112 if I put my ear two inches from the woofer. The volume on the sub is about 25% up and -10dB on my receiver.

The problem with the sub not waking up is pretty common with many subs. That's why I just leave mine set to "on" all the time.
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post #3420 of 6785 Old 03-05-2008, 04:28 PM
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I had to bump up the sub out on my preamp to +6 dB to get my f112 to come on automatically. I had to dial down the gain from 12 to 9 o'clock. Does the Fathom consume more power if it's idling in the ON mode than AUTO?
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