JL Audio Fathom 13" Sub - Page 239 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7141 of 7147 Old Yesterday, 01:18 PM
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^ Makes sense to me. I'd just add that the room EQ in the original (v1) Fathom was an analog design, not DSP. Of course there is another section of unknown processing that flattens response and keeps the Fathoms from blowing out their relatively small drivers.

I still don't quite get what draws people to the Fathom line for a sizeable HT installation; particularly one in which the subs are hidden (Fathoms are meant to be seen, IMO). There are so many cheaper options out there now that seem to offer similar (size for size) or far better performance (with no size constraint). We've been over this many times in recent pages of this thread, where several alternative manufacturers have been discussed.
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post #7142 of 7147 Old Yesterday, 01:54 PM
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Yeah, I probably should have just got the JBL subs. They had 4 x 18" spec'd for my room, sitting in corners to maximize room gain. They are passive subs - no amps or DSP in them. But my budget for gear is $100k max. The JL's were a way to save some money, since I already had one and there were some decent deals out there on the v1 f113 to match mine.

 

 

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post #7143 of 7147 Old Today, 06:19 AM
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Originally Posted by rabident View Post
Yeah, I probably should have just got the JBL subs. They had 4 x 18" spec'd for my room, sitting in corners to maximize room gain. They are passive subs - no amps or DSP in them. But my budget for gear is $100k max. The JL's were a way to save some money, since I already had one and there were some decent deals out there on the v1 f113 to match mine.
Sure, four F113's is a seriously good combination and you can't go wrong that way, but I am fairly certain that turning off room correction in the F113 does not mean DSP is off. Meaning if JL is working in your system, likely JTR (or Seaton) will work as well.

I own a JL subwoof so there is no bashing here, but just want to point out that for movies and a relatively huge budget of 100k, there are better alternatives that will TOTALLY change the movie experience for you, IMHO.

For example my experience of E112 and JTR 1400 is that subjectively, they sound very different from each other, one is mid-bassy, the other is deep-bassy . Objectively, a comparison of simple, easy to read, compression curves of F113 vs JTR 1400 shows huge difference that is hard to catch up even with multiple F113's. Check the top curve (115 dB curve) at 20 Hz: around 14 dB drop for JL (that is not good for movies) vs the nearly straight to 20 hz curve of JTR (partly why this was one of the best Data-Bass has ever tested).

BTW, if you sell those four F113's, you'll have more than enough for *two* JTR's, either 1400 or 2400 (total cost $4000-5000). Then the difference would lbe truly dramatic imho.

JL F113 From Home Theater Shack http://www.hometheatershack.com/foru...thom-f113.html





JTR 1400 From Data-Bass review



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post #7144 of 7147 Old Today, 10:48 AM
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Originally Posted by rabident View Post
Just over 7000 ft^3. After I posted that, I asked a couple of Pros on the forum and they thought I would be ok with 3 x f113. I picked up a 4th for good measure.

I talked to Jeff about JTR and he said the DSP he uses in his amps can't be defeated. Since JBL's room correction works (in part) by adjusting delays fed to each sub, I didn't want to risk the possibility of extra processing introducing unexpected delays. That was one of the reasons I didn't use Seaton as well. That and the price wasn't as attractive if you have to run every sub as a separate master.

JL has an option to defeat their room correction, so it seems like their subs would work from that angle. I know Keith likes to use smaller subs like the JLs to blend with the LCRs, then hand off to larger subs as frequency approaches infrasonic levels. So that might be a future upgrade for me. For now, I'll see how the 4 x f113 do since I already bought them.

But thanks for the reply.
Hi rabident,

Just a quick clarification for your own' knowledge and those reading along. The JBL ARCOS correction doesn't care if there is DSP or any other signal manipulation between the SDEC and subwoofer. All that matters is that you don't change the settings on the sub after it's run and the system is optimized. The "DSP" used in JTR, Seaton Sound, and countless other subwoofers is primarily for performance optimization, not room correction. Those that do offer attempts at on-board room correction like JL, Paradigm, and others can all be left unused, but this does not bypass their internal DSP, just this function.

Since the SDEC can adjust delays on each subwoofer, there is no concern with any latency of DSP managed amplifiers, as it's already baked in the measurements they take. This is even less of an issue when all subwoofers are the same, so any latency is the same. On a related note, when driving 4 corners of the room, unless the room is significantly asymmetrical at bass frequencies due to construction differences, you almost never WANT to send different signals to the front corners, just front vs rear subs, only requiring 2 signals.

Mark Seaton
Seaton Sound, Inc.
"Make no little plans; they have no magic to stir men's blood..." Daniel H. Burnham
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post #7145 of 7147 Old Today, 10:53 AM
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I've owned an F113 since 2009 and I've been thoroughly satisfied. It however recently developed a 60 Hz hum, present even when the sub is powered up and not connected to anything but AC power. I called JL service and learned that they have a fixed price repair program for the F113 for $250. For this they go through the AMP and Driver and test everything to the original specs. Any components in the AMP that fail test points are replaced and if the driver fails it's test it is repaired or replaced. It leaves with a 1 year warranty too. You pay shipping to them and they pay shipping back. Mine is there and they said they have about a 3 day backlog right now.
This is fantastic shipping must be exorbitant as it must be freight!
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post #7146 of 7147 Old Today, 11:00 AM
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post #7147 of 7147 Old Today, 11:38 AM
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This is fantastic shipping must be exorbitant as it must be freight!
Nope. FedEx ground will ship smaller packages up to 150 lbs, sufficient for even the F113. I paid $83 to ship my F112 (115 lbs) from NJ to FL, and JL covered the cost of return shipping.
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