JL Audio Fathom 13" Sub - Page 49 - AVS Forum
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post #1441 of 6776 Old 02-19-2007, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Esox50 View Post

Room is 21 x 14 x 9. What would be better. One F113, or two F112's?

Is your room enclosed? If so, the single F113 would be a very good choice. Duals are recommended by JL's Carl Kennedy as the preferred configuration for HT. Here are his comments:

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I feel strongly that no quality system should have fewer than two subwoofers. Yes, clinically speaking the audio range being reproduced cannot be localized by human hearing however, the upper frequencies that often emanate from sympathetic objects close to the subwoofer's location (furniture, fixtures, art etc.) can be. Beyond that issue, air pressure from a high-output subwoofer is entirely directional (unless facing the wall) and either our FATHOM or GOTHAM products are capable of producing plenty of air pressure. Lastly, there is rarely a room that truly lends itself to quality deep bass characteristics over a broad listening area. This can be greatly enhanced through the careful positioning and implementation of multiple subwoofers. For all these reasons, I generally advise people that whatever your budget may be (for subwoofers), it is for a pair of them.

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post #1442 of 6776 Old 02-19-2007, 10:39 AM
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Aww heck, now I gotta buy another one?
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post #1443 of 6776 Old 02-19-2007, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian View Post

Aww heck, now I gotta buy another one?


Carl's a marketing guy.
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post #1444 of 6776 Old 02-20-2007, 07:51 AM
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I have to say while listing to my F113 over the long weekend, something I never notice before with my old Sunfire Eq signature. The distinction of two different bass notes at the same time.I was hearing some Diana Krall (The girl in the other room) When listing to this what call phenomena....It brings a tear to my eye!

Just wanted to share.....It's an Amazing sub no doubt!

Djoel
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post #1445 of 6776 Old 02-20-2007, 08:03 AM
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Does having the subs that are built into my def tech 7001sc speakers present a problem with the f113? Should they be turned down to allow the f113 to do most of the work?

Thanks
John
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post #1446 of 6776 Old 02-20-2007, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepracing View Post

Does having the subs that are built into my def tech 7001sc speakers present a problem with the f113? Should they be turned down to allow the f113 to do most of the work?

Thanks
John

I am in the process of getting some DT Mythos st,as you know they are powered as well,and was thinking of this same situation.I am just going to put the Mythos to small on my pro/pre. and let the F113 do all the heavy lifting!

Oh and have the crossover around 80hz or so!

Djoel
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post #1447 of 6776 Old 02-20-2007, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

I am in the process of getting some DT Mythos st,as you know they are powered as well,and was thinking of this same situation.I am just going to put the Mythos to small on my pro/pre. and let the F113 do all the heavy lifting!

Oh and have the crossover around 80hz or so!

Djoel

That is the way,with larger definitive speakers you simply cut the mains lower.Setting the crossover point around 60Hz,or even 50. Let the real subwoofer do its thing.

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #1448 of 6776 Old 02-20-2007, 02:10 PM
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Now that I found that manually correcting the subwoofer distance in ypao from 23ft to 13ft actually screwed with the phase enough to kill the bass I expect just one f113 will be plenty.

In case anyone has this happen try setting the phase to reverse and see if it makes a big difference. It was dumb luck in my part that I found it.
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post #1449 of 6776 Old 02-20-2007, 02:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheEAR View Post

That is the way,with larger definitive speakers you simply cut the mains lower.Setting the crossover point around 60Hz,or even 50. Let the real subwoofer do its thing.

Hey Ear you're wanted over here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9829857

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post #1450 of 6776 Old 02-20-2007, 03:00 PM
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I noticed there is a jl 113 on *bay
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post #1451 of 6776 Old 02-20-2007, 03:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleycox View Post

I noticed there is a jl 113 on *bay

He's looking for way too much money considering that there would be no warrantee support.
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post #1452 of 6776 Old 02-20-2007, 05:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zissou View Post

Hey Ear you're wanted over here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post9829857


Bored,again! Nothing better to do!!

No sorry no Def tech anytime soon,my local close by is dropped Definitive.The store is no longer a Definitive dealer.They sell Canton mostly now. I am not going to go out of my way to order online,have other priorities now(Gotham,TheBeast).

And again your contribution to this thread amazes me! Do you even own a JL Audio sub? Do not try to make this ugly like the last time.I will use the classy IGNORE feature buddy.

Have a nice and productive day.

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #1453 of 6776 Old 02-20-2007, 05:38 PM
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I was talking about this item number 300082629472 for sale on the auction
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post #1454 of 6776 Old 02-20-2007, 05:48 PM
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Ah ha. There are two f113's on ebay. The one you are referring to is in the UK.
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post #1455 of 6776 Old 02-20-2007, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepracing View Post

Now that I found that manually correcting the subwoofer distance in ypao from 23ft to 13ft actually screwed with the phase enough to kill the bass I expect just one f113 will be plenty.

In case anyone has this happen try setting the phase to reverse and see if it makes a big difference. It was dumb luck in my part that I found it.

...with phase, crossover points or speaker size...do these manually by your own ear...

I was listening to music a day after setting the levels with YPAO and i could'nt understand why the bass sounded slower than normal...it was a difference that was noticeable...low and behold, a check of the YPAO settings revealed reverse phase on the subwoofer...no wonder!

"Frequency response is NOT efficiency response."

 

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Klipsch RB-35's surround

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B&C 21SW152-4  [21" critical-Q]

 

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post #1456 of 6776 Old 02-20-2007, 06:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bradleycox View Post

I was talking about this item number 300082629472 for sale on the auction

That's a great price, but the seller has a rating of 0. I would be very, very wary of this one. Brand new ID too. Looks like he only has shipping for the UK too.

Dedicated to keeping my 2 labs from chewing any of MY stuff.
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post #1457 of 6776 Old 02-20-2007, 08:07 PM
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Haven't had as much time to listen as I had hoped, but I did (re)watch several movies Monday. I have only spent a short time positioning the Fathom and getting the level in the right general area (did have to change some settings on the Lex).

WOW!!

Everything is different now.

Never really noticed any "serious" bass in HPII (Chamber of Secrets), but it's fairly impressive in several scenes, particularly from the cave in to the end of the fight with the Basilisk (sp?). Then watched a movie that I have always liked - my wife actually suggested it - Brotherhood of the Wolf. It's a different experience.

I think I'll have to rewatch everything I have (400+ titles ).

If the weather holds for Friday (rain), I'll have a good excuse to set some levels correctly.

Truly a remarkable sub.
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post #1458 of 6776 Old 02-20-2007, 08:17 PM
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that Fathom F113 on Ebay is a FRAUD!! Do not bid. He copied the listing exactly from my friends auction that closed in December. It has been reported to Ebay.
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post #1459 of 6776 Old 02-21-2007, 09:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schneider View Post

Haven't had as much time to listen as I had hoped, but I did (re)watch several movies Monday. I have only spent a short time positioning the Fathom and getting the level in the right general area (did have to change some settings on the Lex).

WOW!!

Everything is different now.

Never really noticed any "serious" bass in HPII (Chamber of Secrets), but it's fairly impressive in several scenes, particularly from the cave in to the end of the fight with the Basilisk (sp?). Then watched a movie that I have always liked - my wife actually suggested it - Brotherhood of the Wolf. It's a different experience.

I think I'll have to rewatch everything I have (400+ titles ).

If the weather holds for Friday (rain), I'll have a good excuse to set some levels correctly.

Truly a remarkable sub.

Hello John I am just curious what was your sub prior to F113. I hear what you saying, it's pretty impressive sub.

Djoel
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post #1460 of 6776 Old 02-21-2007, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

Hello John I am just curious what was your sub prior to F113. I hear what you saying, it's pretty impressive sub.

Djoel

I was using, and still am, a Velodyne F1500R. I don't remember the exact specs on it, but when I bought it many years ago, thought it was a pretty impressive sub. Filled the room with good bass - fast, musical, yet still able to do the HT thing when it came along (had this long before DVD's came out - heck, laserdisks were the only option back then). I was happy for many years, but knew that subs have to have made some improvements.

I run stereo subs through my Lex MC-12v4, and have flexibility between this and the controls on the Fathom, plus the ARO.

Plan is to rerun the room EQ on the Lex, then the ARO. I'll check FR curves afterwards and see if I'm in the right ball park. Hope to have time Friday afternoon.
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post #1461 of 6776 Old 02-21-2007, 02:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Schneider View Post

I was using, and still am, a Velodyne F1500R. I don't remember the exact specs on it, but when I bought it many years ago, thought it was a pretty impressive sub. Filled the room with good bass - fast, musical, yet still able to do the HT thing when it came along (had this long before DVD's came out - heck, laserdisks were the only option back then). I was happy for many years, but knew that subs have to have made some improvements.

I run stereo subs through my Lex MC-12v4, and have flexibility between this and the controls on the Fathom, plus the ARO.

Plan is to rerun the room EQ on the Lex, then the ARO. I'll check FR curves afterwards and see if I'm in the right ball park. Hope to have time Friday afternoon.


Yes I remember that particular model very well ,I am not sure if I heard it or not but recall reading up on it,or any Velodyne sub review I can get my hands on.

So you use the Lex eq, and the ARO as well!, I've been thinking if it's ideal to the use a SM 1? (I think that's the Velodyne Eq model name) for more control of any anomalies in my room,but like you I need to tweak a bit more ,and like you I need some time,without any interruptions!

Lets pray for rain !!
Good luck

Djoel
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post #1462 of 6776 Old 02-21-2007, 08:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

So you use the Lex eq, and the ARO as well!, I've been thinking if it's ideal to the use a SM 1? (I think that's the Velodyne Eq model name) for more control of any anomalies in my room...

Please see my thread related to this very subject:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=809299

Lombardi said it:
Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence."

My System

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post #1463 of 6776 Old 02-21-2007, 09:42 PM
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Thanks Craig,Keep us posted!

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post #1464 of 6776 Old 02-22-2007, 06:32 PM
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Well now there are two Fathoms on audiogon for sale, a F112 and F113.
And I believe they are both from around these parts!

Djoel
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post #1465 of 6776 Old 02-22-2007, 07:26 PM
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Sox,

2 subs are more flexible IMHO regarding placement. I prefer "alternate walls" ie: front and side for effects while watching movies. It also depends on your seating layout as well.

However 1 x F113 should fill the bill strickly for SPL.

Now if your processor can address a 5.2 or 7.2 setup with separate level and LFE crossover freq. then 2 would really be cool.

Mike Miles

ICR [ Sales Consulting and Small Part-Time AV shop, very small...  ]

Process Integration, Inc. [ contract sales consultant ]

Eastern Shore of Maryland

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post #1466 of 6776 Old 02-23-2007, 03:42 PM
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Finally ran the Lex EQ and checked some levels using the RS analog meter and Alan Parson's sound check CD.

I think I need to reposition the velo back to the corner, then start again. I have a massive dip in the 50-65 Hz region - go figure.

Current locations of Fathom and Velo give me about a 5-8 db boost at 20 and 25 Hz. The 3 levels of auto EQ (after running the EQ program) help at some of the frequencies, but not in the area of the dip. I figure the ARO won't help. Gonna have to move some furniture, move the sub (or subs), and rerun the EQ.

Rats!!!

May even have to change the crossovers.
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post #1467 of 6776 Old 02-23-2007, 03:57 PM
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Is it a waste of time trying to get big hit you in the chest bass if the room cannot be sealed from the rest of your house ?

I have the def tech 7001 mains and the 3000 center all have subs and was going to just add one f113 in the rear corner.

The room itself is 12 x 20 x 8 but the back wall is completely open to the first level which in total is 5100 cubic ft. To add to that the stairs are open so do I have to try and fill the entire 2nd level 2 which would prob add another 1000 or so even with all the doors closed upstairs.


Would adding one of those fancy foldable 4 pane partitions help keep the bass in the room or does it need to actually be sealed off?

Thanks guys, learning alot.
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post #1468 of 6776 Old 02-23-2007, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepracing View Post

Is it a waste of time trying to get big hit you in the chest bass if the room cannot be sealed from the rest of your house ?

I have the def tech 7001 mains and the 3000 center all have subs and was going to just add one f113 in the rear corner.

The room itself is 12 x 20 x 8 but the back wall is completely open to the first level which in total is 5100 cubic ft. To add to that the stairs are open so do I have to try and fill the entire 2nd level 2 which would prob add another 1000 or so even with all the doors closed upstairs.


Would adding one of those fancy foldable 4 pane partitions help keep the bass in the room or does it need to actually be sealed off?

Thanks guys, learning alot.

So far my experience with bass in very large rooms(semi open spaces) is as follows...

One is to position the sub close to you,this way even outdoors you would get proper SPL(taking for granted the sub has potential,f113 has plenty of).

Sitting in a room(open)space with no wall behind,say mid point(or close)of this said space you will almost all the time be fighting to get enough bass.Even with very capable subs.Sit 3/4 in the room(space),there bass should be even. My subs I almost always position in front, 1-2ft from the front(to me) wall.Sofa against the wall is a great ticket for uneven and peaky bass,listening more to the room itself.

My two cents

Ask yourself mortal , do you have as much displacement as me ? The answer is no unless you have a Windmere fan sub.
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post #1469 of 6776 Old 02-24-2007, 03:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djoel View Post

Well now there are two Fathoms on audiogon for sale, a F112 and F113.
And I believe they are both from around these parts!

Djoel

Yes I am the one that is selling the f113.I'm totally legit.I'm only selling because I only needed one.I will say this sub is incredlble
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post #1470 of 6776 Old 02-24-2007, 07:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shepracing View Post

Is it a waste of time trying to get big hit you in the chest bass if the room cannot be sealed from the rest of your house ?

I have the def tech 7001 mains and the 3000 center all have subs and was going to just add one f113 in the rear corner.

The room itself is 12 x 20 x 8 but the back wall is completely open to the first level which in total is 5100 cubic ft. To add to that the stairs are open so do I have to try and fill the entire 2nd level 2 which would prob add another 1000 or so even with all the doors closed upstairs.


Would adding one of those fancy foldable 4 pane partitions help keep the bass in the room or does it need to actually be sealed off?

Thanks guys, learning alot.

Depnds on your room. My HGS-18 fills the room with bass. Vaulted ceiling to 9' ceing, open at top of vaulted, and rear wall.
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