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post #1591 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcomp124 View Post

How long are the stock power cords?

6 feet. They are standard OSHA cords so you can change it to fit.

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post #1592 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 10:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John F. Palacio View Post

6 feet. They are standard OSHA cords so you can change it to fit.

Thanks for the power cord info John? Do you know what guage it is (12awg, 14awg??). With 2500 watts it could suck some pretty huge power. Wouldn't each f113 require it's own 20A dedicated circuit? Even with 20A it peaks at 120x20 =2400Watts. I have 2 dedicated 20A circuit outlets but they will be 12 ft away from the subs. I would need 2 power cords that are 12 ft long. Good thick well shielded ones can get expensive.
I have a PS-Audio juice bar with a 10AWG 6ft teflon shielded power cord from b-p-t. Using this I can split the single 20A outlet into several (using the juice bar). The juice bar will be close enough for the stock power cords to reach. But this method would give only 20A x 120v = 2400 watts. Wouldn't this limit the performance of the dual f113s during the most intense bass scenes?
Any thoughts would help.
Thanks,
-Jai
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post #1593 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frockc View Post

i have the gramma which is 23x15 and it fits... but i think i might stop using it... msmith_jl said the ruber feet are there to provide the right amount of dampening...


I agree with Mr. Smith but mine are on carpet over slab. I find the shaking floor is a very desirable effect. I also don't mind a few sympathetic vibrations. The scenes are usually so intense that I don't really notice. I do notice these during sine wave sweeps but I'm not playing those much anymore.

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post #1594 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 10:57 AM
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yea for 50 buxs i gave it a shot... i just tried the tripod emerging scene with both the gramma pad and non gramma pad... i like it without although itz not a huge noticable diff either way i like that it feels a little more real with it just on the wood floor...

also in that scene when the tripod emerges and slams down on the car in front of cruise i am pushing the sub pretty hard at like -12~-11MV sub calbrated to 75dB at 0MV i can't tell if itz farting(bottoming out a little) don't know how to describe it... i'm not sure itz not like a really vibrating sound i'm just really unsure if that is just a note playing i'm not used to hearing with my old sub or bottoming out... my living is open to my kitchen and dinning room on my first floor town home and stairs open to the upstairs of the room... my sub is located in the front left corner which seemed to give the best response out of the 4 places i tried... so maybe itz just to much open space....
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post #1595 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frockc View Post

yea for 50 buxs i gave it a shot... i just tried the tripod emerging scene with both the gramma pad and non gramma pad... i like it without although itz not a huge noticable diff either way i like that it feels a little more real with it just on the wood floor...

also in that scene when the tripod emerges and slams down on the car in front of cruise i am pushing the sub pretty hard at like -12~-11MV sub calbrated to 75dB at 0MV i can't tell if itz farting(bottoming out a little) don't know how to describe it... i'm not sure itz not like a really vibrating sound i'm just really unsure if that is just a note playing i'm not used to hearing with my old sub or bottoming out... my living is open to my kitchen and dinning room on my first floor town home and stairs open to the upstairs of the room... my sub is located in the front left corner which seemed to give the best response out of the 4 places i tried... so maybe itz just to much open space....


That is very strange. I have played that scene many times with single and now dual F113's and never had anything but a clean BIG boom and shake. Also my space is 8,000cf open to much more, so I don't think open space is the issue.

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post #1596 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 11:52 AM
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Quote:


Originally Posted by John F. Palacio
6 feet. They are standard OSHA cords so you can change it to fit.

Do you mean detachable IEC-type as OSHA is the Occupational Safety and Health Administration?
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post #1597 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 11:55 AM
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i may just be noticing something now that i didn't notice before... i just might not be used to such detail from a sub... i actually just got off the phone with one of the JL engineers and since i really only notice it from up close next to the sub he thinks it might just be some suspension noise since its such a high excursion sub... it may just be something else rattling in the

i know itz diff not bottoming out because that would be more of a metal sound...

rmk could u try playing the end scene from pulse if u have it... and tell me how that scene sounds when u really push it...
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post #1598 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 12:01 PM
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Quote:


Originally Posted by jmcomp124
Thanks for the power cord info John? Do you know what guage it is (12awg, 14awg??). With 2500 watts it could suck some pretty huge power. Wouldn't each f113 require it's own 20A dedicated circuit? Even with 20A it peaks at 120x20 =2400Watts. I have 2 dedicated 20A circuit outlets but they will be 12 ft away from the subs. I would need 2 power cords that are 12 ft long. Good thick well shielded ones can get expensive.
I have a PS-Audio juice bar with a 10AWG 6ft teflon shielded power cord from b-p-t. Using this I can split the single 20A outlet into several (using the juice bar). The juice bar will be close enough for the stock power cords to reach. But this method would give only 20A x 120v = 2400 watts. Wouldn't this limit the performance of the dual f113s during the most intense bass scenes?
Any thoughts would help.
Thanks,
-Jai

It's a long thread but its been covered before near the front end . The cord is 12 AGW I believe. A single 15A circuit is ok for one. Check post #'s 733 and 745.
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post #1599 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 12:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post

It's a long thread but its been covered before near the front end . The cord is 12 AGW I believe. A single 15A circuit is ok for one. Check post #'s 733 and 745.

Thanks a lot. Answer's clear. If I have 2 20A circuits use both and get longer power cords if need be.
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post #1600 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 12:32 PM
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well i replayed the pulse scene and really pushed it... i put it up to -5MV and 0MV and i really think it was bottoming out... it made a kinda of tapping sound very noticable from my listening position... not sure if that is normal because itz just getting pushed to hard or maybe the sub is defective???
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post #1601 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 12:39 PM
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Frockc:

Would you characterize the level at which it is happening as a realistic listening level or are you pushing it to the limits just to see what happens?

If you back the level down by 2 dB does the noise still happen? 1dB?

It is possible to run a Fathom into limits that sound like what you're describing, but I can assure you that the woofer is not bottoming. Bottoming out that driver requires way more power than the f113 has in that enclosure and sounds like a gunshot when it happens (very loud).
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post #1602 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 01:26 PM
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ok well maybe itz not bottoming out... but it just doesn't sound normal... i played it at about -7MV or -8MV and watched the sub... then i pushed it up to about -5MV and the noise starts to happen slightly... by slightly i mean it makes the sound as the cone is traveling kinda at the end not throughout the whole cone travel... when i push it to -3MV or 0MV then itz like the sound happens through out the cone travel...

i was watching the JL symbol and it doesn't seem to be hitting max exursion of 4 inchs during this...

i would normally watch the movie around -10MV... i think i have heard this noise in some other movies but never pushed the sub harder in those movies...
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post #1603 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frockc View Post

ok well maybe itz not bottoming out... but it just doesn't sound normal... i played it at about -7MV or -8MV and watched the sub... then i pushed it up to about -5MV and the noise starts to happen slightly... by slightly i mean it makes the sound as the cone is traveling kinda at the end not throughout the whole cone travel... when i push it to -3MV or 0MV then itz like the sound happens through out the cone travel...

i was watching the JL symbol and it doesn't seem to be hitting max exursion of 4 inchs during this...

i would normally watch the movie around -10MV... i think i have heard this noise in some other movies but never pushed the sub harder in those movies...

Can you describe what exactly this noise sounds like? Buzzz, thud, knock??
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post #1604 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 01:37 PM
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the noise is just much higher then the low sounds that are coming from the sub... i'd call it a tapping kinda sound... itz constant when up at those higher volumes... i tried it with finding nemo darla sound and that sound really isn't there.... i don't know if itz just the much lower freq of pulse or what... but itz very easy to hear on pulse...

i can just say it doesn't seem normal and itz not there when the volume is a few dbs lower...
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post #1605 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 01:39 PM
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Are there any curtains, loose paper etc around the sub? During the demo, the sub was pushing so much air that a curtain got sucked in front and there was a rapid whirring sound. It was dark so I thought it bottomed out or something for a second and it happened to be the curtain. It could also be something else taking off in the room.
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post #1606 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 01:42 PM
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You may want to turn off all your other speakers if you have not already done so. Have another person in the room who can also listen for it and try repeating the test. Try to find out if it is indeed coming from the sub. Moving it away from the primary location will help you identify if the sound also has moved with the sub. If this noise is > 100Hz, you will be able to isolate it.
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post #1607 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 01:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b curry View Post

Do you mean detachable IEC-type as OSHA is the Occupational Safety and Health Administration?

Yes. They are abreviated to OSHA cords for simplicity.

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post #1608 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 01:45 PM
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i'm pretty sure itz coming from the sub... i mean it could almost be the sub distoring... i heard it from my listening position and then when i walk up right next to it i can tell itz coming from the sub... anyone have pulse that could try???
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post #1609 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 01:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcomp124 View Post

Thanks for the power cord info John? Do you know what guage it is (12awg, 14awg??). With 2500 watts it could suck some pretty huge power. Wouldn't each f113 require it's own 20A dedicated circuit? Even with 20A it peaks at 120x20 =2400Watts. I have 2 dedicated 20A circuit outlets but they will be 12 ft away from the subs. I would need 2 power cords that are 12 ft long. Good thick well shielded ones can get expensive.
I have a PS-Audio juice bar with a 10AWG 6ft teflon shielded power cord from b-p-t. Using this I can split the single 20A outlet into several (using the juice bar). The juice bar will be close enough for the stock power cords to reach. But this method would give only 20A x 120v = 2400 watts. Wouldn't this limit the performance of the dual f113s during the most intense bass scenes?
Any thoughts would help.
Thanks,
-Jai

Don't know for sure, but it is heavy. Definetely heavier than 18 ga. Feels like 14ga or even 12ga. You are way overconcerned about the power. Wait till you trip a breaker, then worry.

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post #1610 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 01:57 PM
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ok i recorded it on my handheld digital cam... i'm gonna see if i can get it online somehow...
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post #1611 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 02:17 PM
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Went into a high-end store in Appleton Wisconsin this past weekend. Spoke with the manager and he stated he did not have a Fathom in stock but could get one because JL just released that upper-end JL car audio dealers could order them. However returning home to Atlanta today I got a call from my local JL dealer that I buy my car audio from and he also sells and installs home theater lines as well. However he told me that he just got off the phone with his regional JL sales rep that told him he could not order the Fathom for me and told him to have me call another store on the other side of Atlanta to see about purchasing it. I felt kinda bad for my local guy because he had to give me the phone # of a competing store. That's kinda sad if you ask me. In fact it pissed me off so much I immediately called and ordered a Klipsch RT-12d. Granted, I realize that it's not a Fathom f113 but I can do without that extra 5%(if it's even that) of SQ and saved roughly $1500.00. I love JL audio as that is what totally powers my car. (1) JL 10W7 in JL box, JL 500/1 amp, JL 450/4, JL Evolution ZR-650csi components and JL Evolution XR-650cxi rear stage. However, the difficulty and extreme cost in purchasing the home sub has turned me off. I am sure the Fathom's are a force to be reckoned with but this is JL first attempt at the home market and I would think that they would be a little more competively priced and be a little more attainable, especially for their die-hard car audio consumers that will be the first to line up to buy the Fathom's but I am not going to drive 75 miles in some of America's toughest traffic to buy something I could easily drive down to my local store and purchase if it was available.
I am sure it doesn't mean a hill of beans but this was one sale that was lost due to restrictive marketing/sales practices.

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post #1612 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 02:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frockc View Post

i'm pretty sure itz coming from the sub... i mean it could almost be the sub distoring... i heard it from my listening position and then when i walk up right next to it i can tell itz coming from the sub... anyone have pulse that could try???

What is your ELF control set to?
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post #1613 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 02:19 PM
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-5dB
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post #1614 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 02:28 PM
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i have it as a .mov but itz 27mb... anyone know how to shrink that down??
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post #1615 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 02:30 PM
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Does anyone know what the bandwidth of the ELF control is?
Is the ELF control simply a single band fixed at 25Hz parametric EQ?
Try setting it to "0" and this should make it worse or problem to appear earlier.
Let us know. I am curious about this now.
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post #1616 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 02:44 PM
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My f113 is on it's way!! It arrives on Friday. Thanks to all the folks who helped me with the pricing info. It made a huge difference.
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post #1617 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 03:03 PM
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ok itz posted on my myspace....
that sound quality isn't great but that is about what i'm hearing...

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...oid=2013075239

here it is as a file figured it out...

 

test1.zip 305.9658203125k . file
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post #1618 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 03:36 PM
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Sounds like the amp has turned into a woodpecker.

Most people don't know what they want...but, they're pretty sure they haven't got it. ©

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post #1619 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 03:37 PM
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so that is diff not normal???
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post #1620 of 6781 Old 03-05-2007, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frockc View Post

ok itz posted on my myspace....
that sound quality isn't great but that is about what i'm hearing...

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fu...oid=2013075239

here it is as a file figured it out...

That doesn't sound normal. There's definitely something wrong with your sub. I'm sure JL Audio will replace it.
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