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post #181 of 6776 Old 10-29-2006, 06:39 PM
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My wife is very understanding Craig, but with all the money I have spent the last month I will be a poor single man if I buy any speakers for several years. In the last 3 weeks I have bought two F113 Fathoms, a 5 speaker Salk system and a Sony KDS70 XBR2 TV. I AM BROKE!! But, happy as a lark with my system.

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post #182 of 6776 Old 10-29-2006, 06:55 PM
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I posted my thoughts on how the JL F113 sounded about a month ago. Glad to see that a lot of others have the same opionion. I did end up buying one and contemplating getting a second. The sub does a great job now but I am curious to what the second would do. My room is 14w x 8h x32d. JL shows a recomendation of placing the 2nd sub opposite corners diagonally. Any thoughts from others?

Craig. Nice job with what you are doing. Unfortunately I can only relate to the subjective reviews. I just cant seem to get what the graphs mean.
Why did you stack the 113's?
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post #183 of 6776 Old 10-29-2006, 07:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slybasil View Post

I posted my thoughts on how the JL F113 sounded about a month ago. Glad to see that a lot of others have the same opionion. I did end up buying one and contemplating getting a second. The sub does a great job now but I am curious to what the second would do. My room is 14w x 8h x32d. JL shows a recomendation of placing the 2nd sub opposite corners diagonally. Any thoughts from others?

Craig. Nice job with what you are doing. Unfortunately I can only relate to the subjective reviews. I just cant seem to get what the graphs mean.
Why did you stack the 113's?

Slybasil - In this room, the back left corner just happens to deliver smooth bass to all the listening positions. I have tried opposite corners, mid walls, etc ... and always end up with this configuration.

Of course, that is also the benefit of dual subs - by stacking them, I get a full 6 dB additional output ... separate them, and you only get 3 dB ... but, in some rooms, the smoothing effect of room peaks and nulls is more than a worthy tradeoff, and dual subs allows one to experiment. For your room, if you grab a 2nd fathom, try BOTH ideas ... stacking AND separate, and see what works for your room and tastes.

And you were right, these are GREAT subs.
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post #184 of 6776 Old 10-29-2006, 07:19 PM
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I placed mine beside each of the main speakers. Opposite sides of the room won't work for me. I hadn't thought of stacking them.

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post #185 of 6776 Old 10-29-2006, 07:27 PM
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nethomas,
I would reccomend checking out rel's white paper on sub placement and crossover/phase setting. After that just stack them in that position. It may not be better, but on paper it should be for some listeners. If you're lucky enough to have a room with Craig's characteristics, then it will be better for all stacked.

Patrick
Merkle Audio Video, Inc
Fort Wayne, IN

PS: Craig thanks so much for your dedication/enthusiasm. I'm grateful for your opinions.
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post #186 of 6776 Old 10-29-2006, 07:35 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipse911t View Post

nethomas,
I would reccomend checking out rel's white paper on sub placement and crossover/phase setting. After that just stack them in that position. It may not be better, but on paper it should be for some listeners. If you're lucky enough to have a room with Craig's characteristics, then it will be better for all stacked.

Patrick
Merkle Audio Video, Inc
Fort Wayne, IN

PS: Craig thanks so much for your dedication/enthusiasm. I'm grateful for your opinions.

Patrick, our other rooms work quite differently .... in the basement theater, shown here, the subwoofer position that works best is away from the walls, near the speakers ... though we normally don't run 3 pairs of speakers at a time, the location of the subs is optimal for this room.


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post #187 of 6776 Old 10-29-2006, 07:37 PM
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Thanks Patrick, I may try that. Although, I'm not sure the wife will be crazy about how they may look.

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post #188 of 6776 Old 10-30-2006, 06:19 AM
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Craigsub,

Have you considered spray painting the ceiling tiles...either black or dark gray?
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post #189 of 6776 Old 10-30-2006, 06:28 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pete View Post

Craigsub,

Have you considered spray painting the ceiling tiles...either black or dark gray?

My wife would kill me. Slowly. This room is primarily used for 2 channel listening, with the occasional movie. Let's just say I get away with enough around here ...
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post #190 of 6776 Old 10-30-2006, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Patrick, our other rooms work quite differently .... in the basement theater, shown here, the subwoofer position that works best is away from the walls, near the speakers ... though we normally don't run 3 pairs of speakers at a time, the location of the subs is optimal for this room.




I think I see Signatures S8's but cant make out the rest.. What do you have there and what are your impressions of them.. I am looking to setup up my HT for 50% Movies and 50% Music..
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post #191 of 6776 Old 10-30-2006, 09:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrzVpr View Post

I think I see Signatures S8's but cant make out the rest.. What do you have there and what are your impressions of them.. I am looking to setup up my HT for 50% Movies and 50% Music..

energy Veritas as well.
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post #192 of 6776 Old 10-30-2006, 09:21 AM
 
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Sorry guys ... I should have posted the speaker's lineage...

Paradigm Studio 100 V.3's, Energy Veritas 2.4i's, and Onix Ref 3's. The subwoofers are dual stacked UFW-10's from AV123.
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post #193 of 6776 Old 10-30-2006, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pradeep View Post

It definitely looks like the Plus/2 goes down deeper. But the F113 seems to shine in the 25Hz+ range, where slam is more prevalent?

Wouldnt having 2 or 3 fix that? One Plus/2 at 20hz tune, one at 25hz tune, and one at 16hz tune? OR Just 2, 1 at 20hz tune and 25hz? lol.

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post #194 of 6776 Old 10-30-2006, 11:20 AM
 
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Quote:


Originally Posted by Pradeep
It definitely looks like the Plus/2 goes down deeper. But the F113 seems to shine in the 25Hz+ range, where slam is more prevalent?

Quote:
Originally Posted by spezzy View Post

Wouldnt having 2 or 3 fix that? One Plus/2 at 20hz tune, one at 25hz tune, and one at 16hz tune? OR Just 2, 1 at 20hz tune and 25hz? lol.

Guys ... if you look at the graphs below, look at the bass output from 12 to 20 Hz in the Fathom 113 vs. the Plus/2 ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post


Here is the Plus/2 on WOTW.



And the Fathom 113


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post #195 of 6776 Old 10-30-2006, 01:14 PM
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I thought I was reading the chart right, but I wasn't sure lol. OK then.. I'm gonna buy 2 F113s.. eventually :P

"The choices we make define our lives, because choice, not chance, determines destiny"

They call me the 18 year old DJ Audiophile-upgradeitis infected-guy!
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post #196 of 6776 Old 10-30-2006, 01:29 PM
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What's the msrp of the F113 ? Is it $3K or $5K for a single sub ?

Regards,
Jose
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post #197 of 6776 Old 10-30-2006, 01:31 PM
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Speezy, you won't be disappointed!!!

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post #198 of 6776 Old 10-30-2006, 01:38 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose_L View Post

What's the msrp of the F113 ? Is it $3K or $5K for a single sub ?

Regards,
Jose

A 113 is $3200 less whatever you can negotiate from the dealer. Most dealers will allow something off the list price
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post #199 of 6776 Old 10-30-2006, 01:39 PM
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craigsub,

How does the ARO compare to the SMS-1 ?

Regards,
Jose
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post #200 of 6776 Old 10-30-2006, 01:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jose_L View Post

craigsub,

How does the ARO compare to the SMS-1 ?

Regards,
Jose

It really doesn't ... The SMS-1, used as an auto-eq, has 8 bands it corrects, vs. 1 for ARO. The SMS-1 is a product which requires a lot more technical knowledge to run than does the ARO.

ARO does a good job with our room, and two others have mentioned it worked for them, too. For most, the 113/112 with ARO will get the job done, and is SO easy to do ...

For "tweakers", the SMS-1 is a worthy step up, especially in larger rooms.
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post #201 of 6776 Old 10-30-2006, 02:04 PM
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While the ARO is only a single band EQ, it is a rather unique one. It is fully parametric in nature and capable of creating asymmetrical filter profiles (if necessary) in order to correct response.
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post #202 of 6776 Old 10-30-2006, 02:36 PM
 
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Perhaps this is a better way to answer the ARO vs. SMS-1 question: I have tried both Dual Fathoms w/ SMS-1 (auto EQ) and with ARO, and found them to sound comparable .. which was GREAT bass.

There will be some rooms that requre more than ARO can do - but for someone looking for 15 Hz bass, great articulation, visceral power, and ease of use, a 112 or 113 is one of the best choices available to those who can afford it. ARO handled our room easily enough.
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post #203 of 6776 Old 10-30-2006, 02:46 PM
 
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most people willing to spend that much for a sub will also spend their money to treat their room. a treated room will need less help from the ARO, which in turn will turn into a bonus feature. this bonus feature enables the sub to be placed in more places rather than in the only spot in the room where it sounds good. sometimes that isnt possible. its a hi-end sub that is small yet powerful, and can be setup almost anywhere.
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post #204 of 6776 Old 10-30-2006, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigsub View Post

Guys ... if you look at the graphs below, look at the bass output from 12 to 20 Hz in the Fathom 113 vs. the Plus/2 ...

Is this just one F113
or two........
and was the previous post concerning obscene distortion levels at, I beleive, 20hz false?

dc

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post #205 of 6776 Old 10-30-2006, 03:30 PM
 
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DC ... That was a single 113. I now have a pair of them running.

As an aside, when I do the in room max SPL tests, I leave the double doors open to another pair of room which total 12,000 cubic feet ... Two years ago, when we did some GP tests on the SVS B4+, we got about 1 dB higher output in this room using the position I am as vs. what we measured outdoors.

We get this by placing the units away from any walls, and using a room which totals 16,500 cubic feet.

At this time of year, it is as close to a true GP session as I can manage.

In the example of the PB12-Plus/2 .. we measured 102 dB @ 20 Hz with appx. 17% THD while Illka measured 101 dB @ 23% THD in the parking lot ...

We also got 94 dB @ 20 Hz from the 112, which is 1.2 dB higher than JL Audio did in a GP session.

If there are no complaints, I would like to proceed with GP testing in this room, and subtracting 1 dB from the results, to give us a solid feel for the measured performance.

Is everyone in agreement here ?
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post #206 of 6776 Old 10-30-2006, 03:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DreamCatcher View Post

Is this just one F113
or two........
and was the previous post concerning obscene distortion levels at, I beleive, 20hz false?

dc

I think it was determined that the distortion levels were the result of damage incurred from all the shipping hither and fro it had undergone prior to being tested.
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post #207 of 6776 Old 10-30-2006, 03:45 PM
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My wife just caught me drooling while on my laptop, she comes over, see's the picture of Craig's basement that I'm drooling at, shakes her head and says "I never thought I'd say this, but couldn't you be like every other man and watch porn on the internet? You're so weird."

Funniest thing she's said all year.

 

My DIY Subs ... http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1233892

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post #208 of 6776 Old 10-30-2006, 03:54 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbc View Post

My wife just caught me drooling while on my laptop, she comes over, see's the picture of Craig's basement that I'm drooling at, shakes her head and says "I never thought I'd say this, but couldn't you be like every other man and watch porn on the internet? You're so weird."

Funniest thing she's said all year.

I just called my wife in to read this ... she is laughing so hard she has tears in her eyes. We GOTTA make sure they meet someday ...
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post #209 of 6776 Old 10-30-2006, 04:20 PM
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I have to say that I am one that bought two of the F113s and I have done nothing to treat my room. I have drapes and carpet, but that is all. Most of the bass traps that I have seen in pictures just don't look like they would go over with my wife in the living room. If, however, I had a dedicated room just for HT and 2 channel music then I would probably get help from some of you AVS forum folks to treat the room.

gthomas
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post #210 of 6776 Old 10-30-2006, 05:58 PM
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Hmmm... Don't mean to be a prude, but...

It's still $3k!

For that much you could pick up four of the Mach audio 18s, and amp to drive them, an EQ, and the materials for a manifold. THEN with the money left over you could hire one of the more knowledgable AVS forum members and fly them to your house to build it, and tweak it.

How much less space can you take up then none?

And as we all know an IB setup when EQed properly has tramendous low frequency output.

I understand that not many people want to do this, but for that kind of money you're in the super woofer territory.

The way I look at it is, would you rather purchase a top of the line receiver, or seperates?
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