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Subwoofers, Bass, and Transducers

Head Shot's Avatar Head Shot
12:35 PM Liked: 10
post #631 of 20669
12-04-2006 | Posts: 1,281
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OvalNut View Post

In 1664 closed cubic feet I'd go with the 16-46 PC+, tune it to 12hz, calibrate it 5-6 db hot and never look back.


Tim

Oh goodness, with that setting I'd also seriously advise to have velcro achors to anything loose in that room, including your favorite pet
dhoganjr's Avatar dhoganjr
07:31 AM Liked: 10
post #632 of 20669
12-05-2006 | Posts: 89
Joined: Mar 2003
Hey, velcro's cheap and I'm not scared!

Thanks for the advice.
bbrc's Avatar bbrc
11:31 AM Liked: 10
post #633 of 20669
12-05-2006 | Posts: 87
Joined: Jun 2005
Order today PB12-Plus/2 thank for your help will be getting it next week
can't wait
enigma001's Avatar enigma001
06:43 PM Liked: 10
post #634 of 20669
12-05-2006 | Posts: 205
Joined: Feb 2004
im in the market for a sub and was wondering how 2 sb12's, in a stereo setup, would compare to a velodyne spl-1500r. any ideas?
five4.4's Avatar five4.4
06:56 PM Liked: 10
post #635 of 20669
12-05-2006 | Posts: 34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbrc View Post

Order today PB12-Plus/2 thank for your help will be getting it next week
can't wait

Me too, I ordered the PB12-NSD today and a SPL meter to calibrate .
This is more or less my first educated audio gear purchase.
I really do hope that all the SVS worshiping isn't all hype and is well deserved.

Can't wait.
bbrc's Avatar bbrc
07:12 PM Liked: 10
post #636 of 20669
12-05-2006 | Posts: 87
Joined: Jun 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by five4.4 View Post

Me too, I ordered the PB12-NSD today and a SPL meter to calibrate .
This is more or less my first educated audio gear purchase.
I really do hope that all the SVS worshiping isn't all hype and is well deserved.

Can't wait.

I really do hope that is not just hype to got avia and slp meter to.
Tell me what you think when you get your sub
ransac's Avatar ransac
08:11 PM Liked: 34
post #637 of 20669
12-05-2006 | Posts: 4,631
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbrc View Post

I really do hope that is not just hype got avia and slp meter to.
Tell me what you think when you get your sub

I have the +/2. If you have the same experience I have had, you won't be disappointed. Once you start to crank it up, it will begin to frighten you. When you realize it can handle the high volume, that fear will turn into delight. Have fun and don't hold back.
bgillyjcu's Avatar bgillyjcu
08:32 PM Liked: 12
post #638 of 20669
12-05-2006 | Posts: 3,022
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LOL...........

Ransac I love the line about learning not to fear it at HIGH VOLUMES.

It is such a true statement considering most of us come from subs that used to scare us with distortion or the fear of blowing...

Now that we have SVS subs we learn to really not worry about them and we let them do their job at even what most people would say are insane levels of listening.

Love my PB-12 and I'm already wondering what 2 would sound like........well I mean FEEL LIKE!!!!! HAHAHAHA (evil sinister laughing sound)
mefromfl's Avatar mefromfl
06:44 AM Liked: 10
post #639 of 20669
12-08-2006 | Posts: 289
Joined: Jul 2005
Hi I have ask this in another thread and I just now found this thread I hope someone here can help.

I have a pb12-plus I have used spl meter to calibrate my speakers and sub. My sub level on the reciever is +1 now and the gain is set at 1/4 and the phase at 0. The reciever's xover is at 80hz and the sub xover is disable. I'm getting it bottom out on me at explosion screen, other scences sounds ok and music sounds good. My living room is 17x20, I have a pioneer elite 84 and for me to get the bottoming out to go away is to set my reciever bass peak level to +1. But it sounds funny like it won't output the explosion now anymore. Is my room too big? Or is my setup just wrong?
bgillyjcu's Avatar bgillyjcu
08:03 AM Liked: 12
post #640 of 20669
12-08-2006 | Posts: 3,022
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hmm...that should be ok for your size room. What Volume are you listening to it at?

You state +1 for SW, 1/4 for Gain, and Phase 0. With those settings I would imagine that it shouldn't bottom out.
Schwingding's Avatar Schwingding
08:06 AM Liked: 10
post #641 of 20669
12-08-2006 | Posts: 476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgillyjcu View Post

LOL...........

Ransac I love the line about learning not to fear it at HIGH VOLUMES.

It is such a true statement considering most of us come from subs that used to scare us with distortion or the fear of blowing...

Now that we have SVS subs we learn to really not worry about them and we let them do their job at even what most people would say are insane levels of listening.

Love my PB-12 and I'm already wondering what 2 would sound like........well I mean FEEL LIKE!!!!! HAHAHAHA (evil sinister laughing sound)

Completely true! I now actually fear for my house, but not my sub(s) - yes I can tell you what two PB12Plus/2 s sounds like - an earthquake! The other night I was demoing my system with the plane crash from Flight of the Phoenix. When the plane starts rolling in mid air and is being torn apart I realized I was more worried for the house than the subs, and laughed.
bgillyjcu's Avatar bgillyjcu
08:47 AM Liked: 12
post #642 of 20669
12-08-2006 | Posts: 3,022
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I commented in another thread about a possible addition in the next year of another SVS sub to go with my PB-12NSD.

Is it best to get another matching PB-12NSD? I've read where people have mismatching SVS subs and one sub tends to overpower the other one....

Like if I had a PB-12NSD paired with another PB-12NSD.

OR paird with one of the following.....

20-39 PC-Plus subwoofer or a PB12-Plus $899 group


OR if I really STEP UP....to the $1199 group
PB12-Plus/2
or
PB12-Ultra
or
PC-Ultra subwoofer

What do people think? Feel free to give pros and cons for each sub. I love to know what people think....especially if you have a PB-12NSD paired with one of the mentioned subs...
MugenPower's Avatar MugenPower
06:02 PM Liked: 10
post #643 of 20669
12-08-2006 | Posts: 34
Joined: Jun 2006
That's true! I have PB-12/plus 2. It really shakes the foundation of my house.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ransac View Post

I have the +/2. If you have the same experience I have had, you won't be disappointed. Once you start to crank it up, it will begin to frighten you. When you realize it can handle the high volume, that fear will turn into delight. Have fun and don't hold back.


rockemsockem's Avatar rockemsockem
06:27 PM Liked: 10
post #644 of 20669
12-08-2006 | Posts: 975
Joined: Oct 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mefromfl View Post

Hi I have ask this in another thread and I just now found this thread I hope someone here can help.

I have a pb12-plus I have used spl meter to calibrate my speakers and sub. My sub level on the reciever is +1 now and the gain is set at 1/4 and the phase at 0. The reciever's xover is at 80hz and the sub xover is disable. I'm getting it bottom out on me at explosion screen, other scences sounds ok and music sounds good. My living room is 17x20, I have a pioneer elite 84 and for me to get the bottoming out to go away is to set my reciever bass peak level to +1. But it sounds funny like it won't output the explosion now anymore. Is my room too big? Or is my setup just wrong?

I would go ahead and contact SVS tech support. A PB12+ should not be bottoming out at all, so there must be something with it. They will be able to help you out better than we could.
mefromfl's Avatar mefromfl
06:29 AM Liked: 10
post #645 of 20669
12-09-2006 | Posts: 289
Joined: Jul 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockemsockem View Post

I would go ahead and contact SVS tech support. A PB12+ should not be bottoming out at all, so there must be something with it. They will be able to help you out better than we could.


Don't seem like they want to do anything but offer me to upgrade to a pb12 plus/2, I feel they do not want to fix the current problem
bbrc's Avatar bbrc
06:59 AM Liked: 10
post #646 of 20669
12-09-2006 | Posts: 87
Joined: Jun 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by mefromfl View Post

Don't seem like they want to do anything but offer me to upgrade to a pb12 plus/2, I feel they do not want to fix the current problem

What the size of you rour room 17' by 20' what is the height is it open
to other room kitchen hallway is it a close room ?
ggunnell's Avatar ggunnell
07:09 AM Liked: 10
post #647 of 20669
12-09-2006 | Posts: 1,018
Joined: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mefromfl View Post

Don't seem like they want to do anything but offer me to upgrade to a pb12 plus/2, I feel they do not want to fix the current problem

Not sure there is a problem other than a large room with only one 12" speaker for bass

Rockem -- you can bottom an Ultra if you try

I tried a 20-39 Plus with the 12.2 driver in my very leaky 2600 cubic feet and it was not enough for me -- in your 2720 cubic feet (assuming an eight foot ceiling) I'd definately recommend two 12" drivers as a minimum for movie effects.

Although the PB12 NSD /2 would not bottom at the level you are using right now, you would not have much additional headroom. So I also would recommend the PB12 Plus /2.

Just like me, you tried a less expensive solution, it wasn't quite enough, and SVS is offering to upgrade you ...
ransac's Avatar ransac
11:18 AM Liked: 34
post #648 of 20669
12-09-2006 | Posts: 4,631
Joined: Feb 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by mefromfl View Post

Hi I have ask this in another thread and I just now found this thread I hope someone here can help.

I have a pb12-plus I have used spl meter to calibrate my speakers and sub. My sub level on the reciever is +1 now and the gain is set at 1/4 and the phase at 0. The reciever's xover is at 80hz and the sub xover is disable. I'm getting it bottom out on me at explosion screen, other scences sounds ok and music sounds good. My living room is 17x20, I have a pioneer elite 84 and for me to get the bottoming out to go away is to set my reciever bass peak level to +1. But it sounds funny like it won't output the explosion now anymore. Is my room too big? Or is my setup just wrong?

I had a 20-39 PC+ in my 8000+cf room and it only bottomed when it reached 110db from a 6 foot measurement. How far are you from the sub when you take your calibration measurements? Try recalibrating, then measure from 2 meters away. Then measure from 2 meters on a passage that bottoms the sub. Then post your readings. Settings on the AVR don't mean much as they are just relative numbers.

What tuning do you have it set to (# of blocked ports) and what is the subsonic filter switch set to?
OvalNut's Avatar OvalNut
12:15 PM Liked: 12
post #649 of 20669
12-09-2006 | Posts: 1,600
Joined: May 2004
Please take the time to go through and check off each of the items on the list of Common Subwoofer Set-Up Errors at the following link, and reply back with your results.

Common Subwoofer Set-Up Errors by Edward J M

... there must be an echo in here.

Good luck,


Tim
mefromfl's Avatar mefromfl
01:48 PM Liked: 10
post #650 of 20669
12-09-2006 | Posts: 289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OvalNut View Post

Please take the time to go through and check off each of the items on the list of Common Subwoofer Set-Up Errors at the following link, and reply back with your results.

Common Subwoofer Set-Up Errors by Edward J M

... there must be an echo in here.

Good luck,


Tim

6 LFE Channel (the ".1" in 5.1) is enabled (Pioneer MCACC). This is not the subwoofer channel.
7 LFE channel level is set to maximum (i.e., unattenuated) value.
8 THX (or any other) bass limiter circuit set to off/no.
9 Subwoofer pre-out level to -5 (on a scale of -10 to +10).

Can someone explain to me some of these settings? I have a pioneer elite.

I really don't understand #7 and #9
Macfan424's Avatar Macfan424
03:02 PM Liked: 14
post #651 of 20669
12-09-2006 | Posts: 5,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mefromfl View Post

6 LFE Channel (the ".1" in 5.1) is enabled (Pioneer MCACC). This is not the subwoofer channel.
7 LFE channel level is set to maximum (i.e., unattenuated) value.
8 THX (or any other) bass limiter circuit set to off/no.
9 Subwoofer pre-out level to -5 (on a scale of -10 to +10).

Can someone explain to me some of these settings? I have a pioneer elite.

I really don't understand #7 and #9

Terminology may vary from model to model, however I'll use the terms that apply to my Pioneer 1015, which shares many characteristics with the Elite series, but not all.

6. His wording is not clear to me either, so I'll try a different approach. The Subwoofer channel (MCACC menu) must be set to "Yes," activating it. In the "Other Settings" menu, there is an LFE ATT submenu. If this is set to "LFE OFF," you'll get no sound from the LFE channel. (See 7.)

7. You should set LFE ATT to "0," which means no attenuation. This is the default.

8. My receiver does not have the option of changing THX bass parameters, so this would not apply. The only bass limiter I have is the LFE ATT mentioned above. If you have a THX submenu, you can check, but no doubt the default would be to disable any bass limiter.

9. -5 is a commonly recommended, but arbitrary starting point. The idea is to have some room for upward adjustment when you calibrate. It's best if your final calibrated pre-amp setting is 0 or less, but +1 or 2 won't do any harm. Use the subwoofer amp's volume control for the initial rough adjustment, so that the sub will approximately balance with the other speakers at -5 before running the MCACC. Most people boost the subwoofer pre-amp out setting again as a last step in their calibration process, winding up with their subs running 3-5dB hot.
OvalNut's Avatar OvalNut
03:36 PM Liked: 12
post #652 of 20669
12-09-2006 | Posts: 1,600
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Thanks Macfan, great explanation of the receiver setup components.

Turning our attention now to the DVD player, make sure of the following:

In The DVD Player:
1. Output set to bitstream (digital output via the digital coax or toslink) and PCM is not enabled. The AVR should be seeing a full DD/DTS signal.
2. Dolby DRC (aka Midnight Mode) circuit set to off/no.

Either of the above settings are very easy to have set incorrectly, and so doing will result in little or no LFE channel bass being output to the subwoofer.


Tim
stubeeef's Avatar stubeeef
09:47 PM Liked: 10
post #653 of 20669
12-09-2006 | Posts: 841
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All right, things are coming together and I will order by the end of the month to beat the price increases.

Basement room, approx 16.5 x 26.5 x 7.9 (wxlxh) = 3600 cuft
Floor is tile, there will be lots of rugs
Ceiling is a 3 dimensional drop ceiling over 1' from the rafters (room for air ducts)
2 walls have cinder block behind the drywall and both of those walls will eventually have 7' high cabinets.
I want to start with a SBS-01 7.1 system. I have sooo much $$ going into construction and other proj that this seems a great place to start. Will also probably pick up some Ascend 170's to compare (they are more expensive too).
So do I go with a cylinder or box?
20-39 or 12-nsd? or more?
Screen will be 110" 16x9 and seating 12' back. the surrounds will ceiling mount. there is an opening at the back right corner (when facing the screen) to stairs.
The freq chart of the PB seems to point me there vs the chart for the PC, but charts aren't ears.
Help plz.
I have not yet poised this to Eric, but will VERY soon.
AMP will probably be the Pio 84 after they fix the LFE issue. I will also use a panamax 5100 if that is an issue.
ransac's Avatar ransac
11:20 PM Liked: 34
post #654 of 20669
12-09-2006 | Posts: 4,631
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The PB12-NSD is tuned lower, but I think you will like the higher mid-bass of the 20-39. Based on your dimensions, you will have plenty of room on either side of the screen to place the taller cylinder without intruding on your viewing area.

At 3500cf, if you can extend your budget to the 20-39+ or PB12+ or PB12-NSD/2, that is where I would point you. The +/2 is probably too much of a reach and is probably too much sub for the SBS or smaller Ascends.

I too am looking at the Ascends, but the 340s instead. I want to wait for the SVS MTS line to come out, but I have one of my mains about to die and I don't know if I can wait for spring. If you do go with the SBS-01s, make sure you get a package price with the sub.
ggunnell's Avatar ggunnell
07:10 AM Liked: 10
post #655 of 20669
12-10-2006 | Posts: 1,018
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Stubeeef, if you can go up a little more, consider dual PB12-NSDs. Dual subs, one on each side of your screen, will even out room resonances. Ask Erik for a package price.
tdamocles's Avatar tdamocles
07:22 AM Liked: 10
post #656 of 20669
12-10-2006 | Posts: 486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stubeeef View Post

The freq chart of the PB seems to point me there vs the chart for the PC, but charts aren't ears.

Also, the charts aren't your room.
stubeeef's Avatar stubeeef
12:45 PM Liked: 10
post #657 of 20669
12-10-2006 | Posts: 841
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Is there a better choice (in general) between the 16-46+ or the PB12-NSD/2? They are similarly priced.
Thanks for the inputs. I will probably email Eric soon (unless you have already read this Eric, then just jump in).
Ron Temple's Avatar Ron Temple
12:53 PM Liked: 36
post #658 of 20669
12-10-2006 | Posts: 8,490
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stubeeef,

Not to stir up more confusion, Randy and gg offer great advice, but the single driver solution for the most output is the 25-31+. You might need it...have it tuned to 22hz. You'll still get sub 20hz extention.

or

buy one of your choice now and a 2nd later.

RT
Mitch G's Avatar Mitch G
01:23 PM Liked: 11
post #659 of 20669
12-10-2006 | Posts: 785
Joined: Jul 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Temple View Post

stubeeef,

Not to stir up more confusion, Randy and gg offer great advice, but the single driver solution for the most output is the 25-31+. You might need it...have it tuned to 22hz. You'll still get sub 20hz extention.

or

buy one of your choice now and a 2nd later.

RT

Note: The 25-31 PC+ is able to be tuned to 20Hz with the provided port plug. So, you don't need to have SVS do any special tuning for you.


Mitch
ggunnell's Avatar ggunnell
05:30 PM Liked: 10
post #660 of 20669
12-10-2006 | Posts: 1,018
Joined: Apr 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by stubeeef View Post

Is there a better choice (in general) between the 16-46+ or the PB12-NSD/2? They are similarly priced.
Thanks for the inputs. I will probably email Eric soon (unless you have already read this Eric, then just jump in).

Well, for theatrical effects, the NSD/2 is going to hit harder, and many posters consider it and the Plus/2 to be SVSs best values.

If you ever develop a taste for the extension, the foundation, the 'voice', of lower tuned subs, the 16-46 is a great choice -- but with lesser output.
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