Official SVS Owners/Support Thread. - Page 248 - AVS Forum
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post #7411 of 17947 Old 04-05-2012, 08:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowturn View Post

I noticed the dual SB12-NSD combo came out last week.
I also wondered if owners of the SB12-NSD who purchased within a year could pay the $500 and get a second one?

Well if you're american... I guess the combo should count as an upgrade and then Promise #6 (1 year trade-up policy) should apply -- although it's even simpler since you don't have to ship back your first SB12.

If SVS is ready to ship you two SB12 for $1149, I don't see why they would refuse selling you one for $500 after you just bought one for $649. I'd say odds are good that you could get it.

In my case 1) I bought my SB12 from sonicboomaudio (canadian distributor) so the trade-up policy doesn't apply and 2) I can't justify putting $500 more this year on my home theater

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post #7412 of 17947 Old 04-06-2012, 09:03 AM
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I agree. I just purchased by SB12 within a month and would love to get second one but I don't know if I can justify it in a 12x18x8 living room.

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I think you would have better luck calling them with that one. Sometimes companies do things for folks but don't necessarily want it broadcasted to everyone.

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post #7413 of 17947 Old 04-06-2012, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slowturn View Post

I agree. I just purchased by SB12 within a month and would love to get second one but I don't know if I can justify it in a 12x18x8 living room.

In a small room such as yours (and mine) room modes provide abundant room gain but, at least in my case, bass intensity changes abruptly when move around the room. Also the modes can swamp out details in less reinforced frequencies, and create excessive reverberation.

Equalizing is a first step and can give you a pretty flat response at the calibrated position, but won't do anything for hot or cold spots.

A second subwoofer, if placed correctly, can excite room modes that are not excited by the first sub and greatly even out the response (as well as boosting output of course).

So that would be the justification for a second sub in a small room. Up to you to decide if this is worth around $500.

Also nothing says you must use the 2nd SB12 in the same room

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post #7414 of 17947 Old 04-06-2012, 08:06 PM
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Just sold my Def Tech SC1 and my first SVS arrived yesterday. I have the PB12NSD. Do I need to be careful and break this in, or can i test it out? Actually can I continue to test it out, it will hit 16Hz just like it said, but I had some internet files that said they were 5Hz that had it thumping for a while. Will that harm it?

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post #7415 of 17947 Old 04-06-2012, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by LowellG View Post

Just sold my Def Tech SC1 and my first SVS arrived yesterday. I have the PB12NSD. Do I need to be careful and break this in, or can i test it out? Actually can I continue to test it out, it will hit 16Hz just like it said, but I had some internet files that said they were 5Hz that had it thumping for a while. Will that harm it?

I think your ok to test it out. There are really good limiters built into the Sledge amps so I don't think you'll hurt it. Not sure I would pump continuous 5Hz stuff into it though regardless of how long youve had it. It's not like your going to have any usable output at that frequency anyway.

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post #7416 of 17947 Old 04-06-2012, 08:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian6751 View Post

I think your ok to test it out. There are really good limiters built into the Sledge amps so I don't think you'll hurt it. Not sure I would pump continuous 5Hz stuff into it though regardless of how long youve had it. It's not like your going to have any usable output at that frequency anyway.

Thanks for the advice. I stopped it after the 3rd or 4th thump and pushed the test up to 15Hz. I don't think I will try it any lower than that. I do know what the Depth Charge scene in U571 should feel like now though.

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post #7417 of 17947 Old 04-07-2012, 01:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowellG View Post


Thanks for the advice. I stopped it after the 3rd or 4th thump and pushed the test up to 15Hz. I don't think I will try it any lower than that. I do know what the Depth Charge scene in U571 should feel like now though.

You cannot hurt it. The limiter will do just as the name implies and limit the output as to not cause damage. Let her rip and enjoy.
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post #7418 of 17947 Old 04-07-2012, 03:24 AM
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Does the limiter limit the frequency or just the excursion. So will i hear under 20hz if the light is coming on?

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post #7419 of 17947 Old 04-07-2012, 07:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

Does the limiter limit the frequency or just the excursion. So will i hear under 20hz if the light is coming on?

No it doesn't limit frequency. As far as what you'll hear under 20hz that just depends on several factors but I think the pb12 is rated down to 18hz so depending on room gain you probably won't get much lower. As far as what the limiter actually does is it prevents you from damaging the sub. It's pretty foolproof.
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post #7420 of 17947 Old 04-07-2012, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by JBrax View Post

No it doesn't limit frequency. As far as what you'll hear under 20hz that just depends on several factors but I think the pb12 is rated down to 18hz so depending on room gain you probably won't get much lower. As far as what the limiter actually does is it prevents you from damaging the sub. It's pretty foolproof.

According to Josh Ricci's testing, the PB12-NSD can deliver 93dB at 16Hz, and that's outdoors, on the ground, mic'd at one meter. That same output, in most rooms that would fit inside a typical house, will be very strong, though of course weaker than the sub's response four Hertz higher.

I don't know the fine details and I've still got a lot to learn about subwoofer physics in general but to my knowledge, the limiter lowers the output at a given frequency to a level that is within the limiter's own defined parameters. You will definitely get strong output below 20Hz with this sub, but that output will be, at its maximum, lower than what the sub could deliver, if it weren't designed to shield itself from distress.

In other words, don't be afraid that the limiter hobbles the sub--it just steers it away from ugly noises, excessive distortion, and driver damage.

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post #7421 of 17947 Old 04-07-2012, 10:11 AM
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However below 20 Hz, the human ear is not very responsive. And at 5 Hz, not at all. That being said, sub-20Hz output can be felt more tactically as a "vibe" in the air or a pressure on the tympans; and of course as vibrations through the floor and furniture.

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post #7422 of 17947 Old 04-09-2012, 06:48 AM
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While the limiter/compressor will protect the subwoofer from being overdriven on source material, playing continuous test tones (sine waves) at loud volumes is not advised. The voice coil does not have an opportunity to cool-off (like it would with normal source material) and you might damage the subwoofer.

Being a bass reflex subwoofer tuned to about 20 Hz, the PB12-NSD will have linear/clean/usable output from about 18 Hz -up. While the subwoofer does have some clean output at 16 Hz, Josh's test result of 93 dB (CEA-2010 limit) is already about 10 dB below the max clean output of 103 dB @ 20 Hz.

Below system tuning, the woofer decouples from the port (Helmholtz resonator) and starts to unload. As a result, clean output capability will tail-off quickly below system tuning, and while the woofer will certainly respond to a 5 Hz test tone input, the subwoofer really doesn't have any usable output capability at that frequency.

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post #7423 of 17947 Old 04-09-2012, 08:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

While the limiter/compressor will protect the subwoofer from being overdriven on source material, playing continuous test tones (sine waves) at loud volumes is not advised. The voice coil does not have an opportunity to cool-off (like it would with normal source material) and you might damage the subwoofer.

Being a bass reflex subwoofer tuned to about 20 Hz, the PB12-NSD will have linear/clean/usable output from about 18 Hz -up. While the subwoofer does have some clean output at 16 Hz, Josh's test result of 93 dB (CEA-2010 limit) is already about 10 dB below the max clean output of 103 dB @ 20 Hz.

Below system tuning, the woofer decouples from the port (Helmholtz resonator) and starts to unload. As a result, clean output capability will tail-off quickly below system tuning, and while the woofer will certainly respond to a 5 Hz test tone input, the subwoofer really doesn't have any usable output capability at that frequency.

how about the sb12?

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post #7424 of 17947 Old 04-09-2012, 10:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Fineberg View Post

how about the sb12?

There is some element of truth that a sealed subwoofer will eventually catch a vented subwoofer well below the system tuning frequency for the vented sub. But this situation is very product dependent, and I would hesitate to make this a blanket/universal statement.

In the case of the PB12-NSD vs. the SB12-NSD, the PB12-NSD has much greater deep bass output capability down to 16 Hz, where it still has an 8 dB clean/CEA-2010 output advantage. Probably somewhere around 12.5 Hz the two subs approach parity, and at 10 Hz the SB12 might even have a small edge, but it would be moot since neither subwoofer has truly usable output in the 10-12 Hz band.

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post #7425 of 17947 Old 04-09-2012, 10:50 AM
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Thank you! :tup

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post #7426 of 17947 Old 04-09-2012, 12:04 PM
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Hi Ed! Did you guys just remove the SB13-Plus from your site?

Once again, I am sorry to take a sledgehammer to so small and fragile a nut. -- Richard Dawkins, The Greatest Show On Earth
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post #7427 of 17947 Old 04-09-2012, 12:11 PM
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I kind of lost hope when SVS told that they can't ship a PB12 via USPS because box dimensions and fedex quotes are ridiculous. So maybe I can test a single SB12(wich they say they can ship) in my living room 14x14x9 with openings to a dining room and kitchen, about 3,780cu/ft?
2 SB's are out of the question right now.

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post #7428 of 17947 Old 04-09-2012, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

Hi Ed! Did you guys just remove the SB13-Plus from your site?

hmmmm

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post #7429 of 17947 Old 04-09-2012, 01:02 PM
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Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post

hmmmm

I don't know whether to feel sad or excited

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post #7430 of 17947 Old 04-09-2012, 01:41 PM
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Figured I'd post here and see if anyone else has had this an issue with one of their ports rattling on a PB13-Ultra. I can't really say when it started happening, maybe a couple months ago. I didn't really think too much about it until the other night, the kids were watching some Harry Potter and during 1 scene, all I could hear was this loud rattling coming from the sub. Naturally, I thought the worst...

Anyway, I downloaded some bass test tones and while 25 and 31.5Hz is playing, I get a very loud rattle from the middle port. Even with the receiver turned down to -20 to -30 it's very noticeable. So, I did what any of us would do. I shoved my arm inside the port to get a feel for what was going on and the tubing was vibrating like crazy. I tested the other 2 ports and they were solid as a rock. Applying pressure to the tubing - about 1 foot in - stops the noise.

I called SVS and talked to Jack and he asked me to send an email with a detailed description so the engineers could look at it. I've worked with him in the past and he's always been a rockstar. Hopefully there's something I can do about it without having to send this beast back.
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post #7431 of 17947 Old 04-09-2012, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by .chizzle View Post

Figured I'd post here and see if anyone else has had this an issue with one of their ports rattling on a PB13-Ultra. I can't really say when it started happening, maybe a couple months ago. I didn't really think too much about it until the other night, the kids were watching some Harry Potter and during 1 scene, all I could hear was this loud rattling coming from the sub. Naturally, I thought the worst...

Anyway, I downloaded some bass test tones and while 25 and 31.5Hz is playing, I get a very loud rattle from the middle port. Even with the receiver turned down to -20 to -30 it's very noticeable. So, I did what any of us would do. I shoved my arm inside the port to get a feel for what was going on and the tubing was vibrating like crazy. I tested the other 2 ports and they were solid as a rock. Applying pressure to the tubing - about 1 foot in - stops the noise.

I called SVS and talked to Jack and he asked me to send an email with a detailed description so the engineers could look at it. I've worked with him in the past and he's always been a rockstar. Hopefully there's something I can do about it without having to send this beast back.

I've got our Shop guys working on some possible solutions to avoid shipping the subwoofer back, and we'll get back to you from Customer Service in the AM. Thanks!

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post #7432 of 17947 Old 04-09-2012, 03:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaviorMachine View Post

Hi Ed! Did you guys just remove the SB13-Plus from your site?

Yes sir - the last SB13-Plus in American Cherry just sold, and we're out of stock for this model, so we pulled it from the website. Stay tuned for news on a replacement. We're running a special on dual SB12-NSD as an alternative.

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post #7433 of 17947 Old 04-09-2012, 03:48 PM
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I am now the proud new owner of a pre-owned 20-39 PC Plus subwoofer

Can you guys tell me about what this is equivalent to in today's product line? It will be serving in a 16x32x10ft tiled floor living room+kitchen common volume space.

The funny part is I have it hooked up with the high level inputs to my cheap HtiB setup in my apartment right now while my house is being built and as I piece together my future 5.1 system.
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post #7434 of 17947 Old 04-09-2012, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

I've got our Shop guys working on some possible solutions to avoid shipping the subwoofer back, and we'll get back to you from Customer Service in the AM. Thanks!

Appreciate that Ed! SVS customer service is top notch!
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post #7435 of 17947 Old 04-09-2012, 04:55 PM
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I am now the proud new owner of a pre-owned 20-39 PC Plus subwoofer

Can you guys tell me about what this is equivalent to in today's product line? It will be serving in a 16x32x10ft tiled floor living room+kitchen common volume space.

The funny part is I have it hooked up with the high level inputs to my cheap HtiB setup in my apartment right now while my house is being built and as I piece together my future 5.1 system.

Great sub. I used o have the cs ( non powered) 20-39 plus. I had one port blocked to tune it to 16. With a Samson 1000 amp. Such a great sub!! Wish I didn't have to sell it.

I am not sure what it would compare to now. I think someone else should chime in. But I had it in a 12 x 12 x 7 room to start then a 20x15x19 loft. Was insane in both places.

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post #7436 of 17947 Old 04-09-2012, 05:09 PM
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Just picked up a new PB12-nsd. Hooked it up to my avr and re-ran the sound eq program. It's all set up but I haven't actually sat down to have a good listen because I'm trying to recover from a wicked case of the flu.

I noticed that the PB12-nsd has a "line out" jack. Does this leam I could run an rca cable from the PB12-nsd's line out to my PB10-nsd's input and use both subs at the same time? It would be overkill given the size of my room but I just thought I would ask.

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post #7437 of 17947 Old 04-09-2012, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

Yes sir - the last SB13-Plus in American Cherry just sold, and we're out of stock for this model, so we pulled it from the website. Stay tuned for news on a replacement. We're running a special on dual SB12-NSD as an alternative.

I bet I got the second to the last one! Just delivered today...
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post #7438 of 17947 Old 04-10-2012, 05:08 AM
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Yes sir - the last SB13-Plus in American Cherry just sold, and we're out of stock for this model, so we pulled it from the website. Stay tuned for news on a replacement.



Now that opens up some possibilities. This replacement could be:
1) new sleeker cabinet (non-slab sided) with single color tone
2) which gives way to a price change (lower)
3) something really tasty like a dual driver model (wouldn't that be sweet!!)
4) ???

I guess we'll have to wait and see unless you can throw us a bone.

On the other hand, I'm sad because I won't ever be able to get a cosmetically matching dual if I wanted a second down the road.

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post #7439 of 17947 Old 04-10-2012, 06:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by warpdrive View Post



Now that opens up some possibilities. This replacement could be:
1) new sleeker cabinet (non-slab sided) with single color tone
2) which gives way to a price change (lower)
3) something really tasty like a dual driver model (wouldn't that be sweet!!)
4) ???

I guess we'll have to wait and see unless you can throw us a bone.

On the other hand, I'm sad because I won't ever be able to get a cosmetically matching dual if I wanted a second down the road.

Nothing drastic - just an evolution of the current model, which has been incredibly popular and well received. The replacement model will feature a full (i.e., six sides) piano gloss black wrap or a full black oak wrap. Yes, it's sleeker and more upscale, and customers have been asking for this change. It's also considerably more expensive to manufacture than the previous cabinet with two side panels with a matte vinyl wrap. Hardware is the same - the Sledge STA-1000D 1000W DSP amp used in the PB13U and PC13U, and a variant of the Ultra 13.5" woofer optimized for sealed applications. Expect a moderate price increase to cover the full wrap cabinet finish, and a model name change.

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post #7440 of 17947 Old 04-10-2012, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Mullen View Post

Hardware is the same - the Sledge STA-1000D 1000W DSP amp used in the PB13U and PC13U, and a variant of the Ultra 13.5" woofer optimized for sealed applications. Expect a moderate price increase to cover the full wrap cabinet finish, and a model name change.

interesting that you mention a model name change. When you moved to full wrap for the PB12+ and others, the name didn't change.

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Speaker Systems , Svs , svs pb-2000 , Svs Pb1000 10 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Pb12 Nsd Black Vinyl 12 Inch Powered Subwoofer , Svs Pb13 Ultra , Svs Pc12 Nsd 12 Inch 400 Watt Powered Cylinder Subwoofer , Svs Pc12 Ultra , Svs Sb1000 12 Inch 300 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb12 Nsd Charcoal Black Vinyl 12 Inch 400 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb13 Ultra Piano Gloss 13 Inch 1000 Watt Powered Subwoofer , Svs Sb2000
Gear in this thread - Sb1000 by PriceGrabber.com

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